Hello to all my friends

[Jim47]

Saying Hi and wishing you all a blessed Christmas day



http://ak.imgag.com/imgag/product/full/ap/3040053/graphic1.jpg

[Henaynei]

I hope your holy day brought you joy ...

[Baruch41]

Merry Christmas to you, Jim!

[Lulav]

Saying Hi and wishing you all a blessed Christmas day



http://ak.imgag.com/imgag/product/full/ap/3040053/graphic1.jpg

Thank you for the sentiment but I am sure after spending so much time here in the MJF as our supervisor you must have picked up on the fact that we don't celebrate Christmas, [staff edit] like we don't do Easter either, but Passover, we did celebrate Hanukkah two weeks ago , yet no one thought about us then to come and wish us a happy celebration of the re-dedication of the Holy temple as well as ours. [staff edit]

I did have a good day though, baked my hubby some homemade cinnamon rolls for breakfast, baked some bread, cleaned out three closets, did some counseling, made some fish and 'chips' for dinner, and chocolate chip cookies later and got my chuppah hung up over my bed finally. :)

[Lulav]

Jim, I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, but I hope you can see this from our perspective, many of us have familys that ignore our practices and try to force this holiday on us as well as other things like making food with pork in it. Now this isn't as hard for some like myself that didn't grow up eating it, but for many here it is.

It is like knowing that you are a dibetic and inviting you over and having noting but sugary sweets to eat. Or knowing you are allergic to a certain food and offering it to you time and again. WE are very familiar with invalidation because of our beliefs and hope that you too can sympathize.

Blessings on you and your family now and all year long! :)

[Ivy]

Thank you Jim47! :) A Blessed Nativity to you too.

[Jim47]

My apologies. I never realized that Messianic's didn't celelbrate Christmas. I thought since you believed in The Messiah that you also celebrated His birth.

You can have this thread deleted if you want. I meant no offence.

[visionary]

My apologies. I never realized that Messianic's didn't celelbrate Christmas. I thought since you believed in The Messiah that you also celebrated His birth.

You can have this thread deleted if you want. I meant no offence.We do celebrate HIS Birth... When was Jesus born? (http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm) We know you meant no offense. He tabernacled with us.

[Jim47]

We do celebrate HIS Birth... When was Jesus born? (http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sukkoth.htm) We know you meant no offense. He tabernacled with us.


Thank you. Yes I am fully aware that we do not know the exact day of Jesus birth, His first coming, like wise we do not know the day of His second coming, but for me and many others we look forward each year to this special day when we celebrate the gift of a Savior.

Its not a birthday celebration like we would have for our children, but rather a day when we thank God for furlfilling His promise to give us a Savior from sin so that we could be his own. The date isn't that important, just as worshiping on sunday isn;t that important. Its the hearts of thankfulness we have towards God our Father and our trust in Jesus to save us from our sins that matters.

I have wirtten this to explain my beliefs. It is no way intended to offer scorn. In many ways I am jealous of you Messiancs and your traditions, but I must confess that I am too weak to take up your practices. If I did I would become entrapped in works of self and forget the sacrifice that Jesus made to redeem me. So it is on the gospil that I focus and praise my God and Father for His great love to us. All eternity will not be long enough to sing His praises. http://www3.christianforums.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[christinepro]

Thank you. Yes I am fully aware that we do not know the exact day of Jesus birth, His first coming, like wise we do not know the day of His second coming, but for me and many others we look forward each year to this special day when we celebrate the gift of a Savior.

Its not a birthday celebration like we would have for our children, but rather a day when we thank God for furlfilling His promise to give us a Savior from sin so that we could be his own. The date isn't that important, just as worshiping on sunday isn;t that important. Its the hearts of thankfulness we have towards God our Father and our trust in Jesus to save us from our sins that matters.

I have wirtten this to explain my beliefs. It is no way intended to offer scorn. In many ways I am jealous of you Messiancs and your traditions, but I must confess that I am too weak to take up your practices. If I did I would become entrapped in works of self and forget the sacrifice that Jesus made to redeem me. So it is on the gospil that I focus and praise my God and Father for His great love to us. All eternity will not be long enough to sing His praises. http://www3.christianforums.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Why go for the attic when you could have the foundation. The L-rd will move you if that is his plan. If you study you might see yourself grow beyond. It takes time. I wouldn't worry about it and let the spirit move you through your studies.:)

[Henaynei]

Thank you. Yes I am fully aware that we do not know the exact day of Jesus birth, His first coming, like wise we do not know the day of His second coming, but for me and many others we look forward each year to this special day when we celebrate the gift of a Savior.

Its not a birthday celebration like we would have for our children, but rather a day when we thank God for furlfilling His promise to give us a Savior from sin so that we could be his own. The date isn't that important, just as worshiping on sunday isn;t that important. Its the hearts of thankfulness we have towards God our Father and our trust in Jesus to save us from our sins that matters.

I have wirtten this to explain my beliefs. It is no way intended to offer scorn. In many ways I am jealous of you Messiancs and your traditions, but I must confess that I am too weak to take up your practices. If I did I would become entrapped in works of self and forget the sacrifice that Jesus made to redeem me. So it is on the gospil that I focus and praise my God and Father for His great love to us. All eternity will not be long enough to sing His praises. http://www3.christianforums.com/images/icons/icon10.gif each must be faithful to follow the path which G-d lays before him ... the real danger is in not following the "one less traveled by" because the other is well worn and all the tangles and stones have long since been removed or gone around ....

I truly do hope your celebration brought faithful joy to you and your family ... and that your new year is one of health and adventure with peace of soul... :thumbsup:

[Torah]

Jim47 my post is not intended to be an attack but to peal back the traditions that have been handed down. Jeremiah 16: 19

Thank you. Yes I am fully aware that we do not know the exact day of Jesus birth, His first coming,
But we can come very close.
The birth of Yeshua!
The Bible does not give specific date for the birth of the body of Yeshua, nor does it say that anyone celebrated it. However the date can be determined quite closely by data given in the Bible.

The clue is in Luke 1:5, Zechariah father of John the baptizer, was a priest of the division of Abijah. When king David reorganized the priesthood, as related in 1 Chronicles 24, the numerous priests were divided into 24 divisions.

According to Josephus, one division should minister to God at the tmeple for eight days, from Sabbath to Sabbath, with two divisions serving on each Shabbat. Each priest served with his division for eight days, then again six months later for another eight days. All of the priests served during the busy times of the Passover season and Sukkot (Festival of Booths or Tabernacles.) This took care of all the weeks in the year.

Let us take the year 2000-2001, Jewish year 5760-5761, for illustration. Exodus 21 declares Nisan (Abib) the first month of the year.
The division of Abijah was 8th in the order. The first division would start after Moed (Appointed Time) of Passover/Unleavened Bread, which is always Nisan 14-22, corresponding to April 19-27, 2000, a Wednesday through the following Thursday.

Sabbath was April 29, 2000, or Nisan 24, 5760. First Division serves from April 29 through May 6, 2000.

Second Division serves from May 6 through May 13, 2000.
Third Division serves from May 13 through May 20, 2000, and so on until the 8th Division.

The eighth division (of Abijah), with Zechariah on duty, would serve from June 17 through June 24 in the year 2000. During this week an angel appears to Zechariah as he is burning incense in the Temple, and tells him that prayers are answered, that his wife Elizabeth will bear a son, and to call his name John. Read it all in Luke 1!

Zechariah goes home, Elizabeth gets pregnant by the end of June or early July. Nine months later John is born, by the end of March or early April 2001.
Passover/Unleavened Bread is always Nisan 14 – 22, but in 2001, it is April 7-15. So John the baptizer is born at approximately Passover time.

Gabriel tells Miriam that her relative Elizabeth is already 6 months pregnant. Therefore, the Body of Yeshua would be delivered from Miriam about 6 months after John is born.

Six months after Passover on the Jewish calendar is Sukkot, the Festival of Booths or Tabernacles, Tishri 15-23, which corresponds to October 2-10, 2001. All Moadim (Appointed Times, or Festivals from Leviticus 23) go by the Jewish calendar. Sometimes Sukkot is in the latter part of September, as September 25 – October 3, 1999, but never later than October.

Therefore, the body of Yeshua was delivered about the time of Sukkot, September or October!


Like wise we do not know the day of His second coming,
We are not in darkness and will not be caught by surprise. Let us not be like others who are asleep, but we must be Awake. [Thessalonians 5;1-11]

When G-d has moved, it has always revolved around His appointed days.
There are 7 appointed feasts that G-d set up.

1) Shabbat
---
2) Passover
3) First fruits---these three Yeshua has filled up with its meaning / understanding.Spring feast.
4) Shavuot
---
The time between the feast / or, time of the Gentiles.
---
5) Rosh Hashanah
6) Yom Kippur---these three Yeshua has still to fill up with its meaning / understanding.Fall feast
7) Sukkot
---
If G-d from the beginning of time set up his Holidays, and give them first to the Jew then, states that Gentiles are grafted into himself through Yeshua then it just makes sense that Gentiles also have the right & privilege to enjoy his feast days. Especially if they have to do with prophecy about the death, resurrection, giving of the Holy Spirit, & his return. You know, we may not know the day or the hour of his return. But we can know the season. He does not want us to be ignorant in these matters.

[Torah]

But for me and many others we look forward each year to this special day when we celebrate the gift of a Savior.
Why, is December 25 picked to celebrate the birth of Messiah?
Mithraism
Sunday was kept holy in honour of Mithra, and the sixteenth of each month was sacred to him as mediator. The 25 December was observed as his birthday, the natalis invicti, the rebirth of the winter-sun, unconquered by the rigours of the season.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10402a.htm (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10402a.htm)

Natalis Invicti
The well-known solar feast, however, of Natalis Invicti, celebrated on 25 December, has a strong claim on the responsibility for our December date. For the history of the solar cult, its position in the Roman Empire, and syncretism{the fusion of two or more originally different inflectional forms) with Mithraism,...
The earliest rapprochement of the births of Christ and the sun is in Cyprian, "De pasch. Comp.", xix, "O quam præclare providentia ut illo die quo natus est Sol . . . nasceretur Christus." — "O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born . . . Christ should be born."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm)
http://christianforums.com/t6632007-why-dec-25.html&page=2 (http://christianforums.com/t6632007-why-dec-25.html&page=2)


It’s not a birthday celebration like we would have for our children, but rather a day when we thank God for fulfilling His promise to give us a Savior from sin so that we could be his own.
Exodus 32: 5...."Tomorrow there will be a festival to the LORD." 6 So the next day the people rose early and sacrificed burnt offerings and presented fellowship offerings.

These people were offering there praise and love offering to G-d. And it was mixed with ?


The date isn't that important,
I feel dates are important to G-d. The planetary structure points to and regulates the Feast of G-d. G-d states in Gen 1: 14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, [and let them serve as signs to mark “seasons” and days and years,]
The word “SEASONS” in Hebrew is “MOEDIM” this word means “APPOINTED FEAST” or HOLIDAYS. The Moedim=Feast are first and foremost part of the creative order of G-d. And not merely part of the covenant made with Israel at Sinai.
Lev 23: 1-2 The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'these are [my appointed feasts].
Therefore if G-d wanted us to keep a Holyday to remember Yeshua birth he would have stated it. But instead Chris-mass was created by man by mixing A pagan day and elements and then offering it to G-d.

Just as worshiping on Sunday isn’t that important.
I believe this a very important point that the gentiles have missed. The Churches teaches what they believe is important and not important to G-d.
Even if it contradicts what G-d say’s.
If it is not “important” why do so many strongly defend Sunday worship. Instead of the day G-d called holy?

It’s the hearts of thankfulness we have towards God our Father and our trust in Jesus to save us from our sins that matters.
Yes this does matter and is very important.
But! this is not all that matters. This would be like the Israelites saying to Moses.
“It’s the hearts of thankfulness we have towards God our Father
For setting us free from the bondage of slavery (sin) that matters.
And we (Israelites) and the “other people” with us, need no more.”
How one lives his / her life does matter.


I have written this to explain my beliefs. It is no way intended to offer scorn. In many ways I am jealous of you Messianic and your traditions,
But I must confess that I am too weak to take up your practices.
Living a life the way G-d instructs us to, is a way of life.

If I did I would become entrapped in works of self and forget the sacrifice that Jesus made to redeem me. So it is on the gospel that I focus and praise my God and Father for His great love to us.
SO! now that your focus is on praising God and Father for His great love to us. By what set of rules / laws do you live your life?
2 Peter 3:15-18 15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. [What Scriptures would Peter have been talking about? NT?]
17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless / Torah less men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.


All eternity will not be long enough to sing His praises.

[LilLamb219]

It's a shame that a wonderful greeting to a group of fellow believers has turned into a debate :(

Closing thread at request of OP.