Conversion of heart

[CatholicFlame]

Greetings and Blessings to us all here.

I would like to have this thread to talk about the "conversion of heart" experience which is also known as the "born again" experience.

Many of us have not had this. Some may not understand what it entails exaclty and others may not even think it is really catholic! Well, I just wanted us to talk about this, because it is also a big part of the Renewal in the Catholic Church.

I want to ask everyone if you have you had this experience. Please tell us what it was / is like.

And also, here is a short article to read if you have no clue to what I am referring to, or if you would like some more info about this for our discussion.

peace be with us all!

And May we put our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Lord and the Savior of the whole world.

[CatholicFlame]

Q: Do catholics need to have a conversion experience to be saved or are just receiving the sacraments enough?

[CatholicFlame]

Maybe that is not the best way to have a discussion of this topic. I think it is a better question to ask, "can you share what your life was like before and after you had a convesion experience to accepting Jesus as your Lord?"

[Peaceful Dove]

I want to join in on this. I need some time to share my testimony and just will have to make time.
I promise I will. I am preparing for my day with the family which is Christmas Eve. Christmas Day will be in town at my sons house.

[AMDG]

"can you share what your life was like before and after you had a convesion experience to accepting Jesus as your Lord?"

And I think that what needs to be remembered is that "conversion" is not a "one time event". It's every day and many different levels. I wish I had the words to express it, but it just seems to me that spirituality gets deeper and deeper, once the conversion process is started (and cared for through the Sacraments, prayer, and spiritual reading.)

[HisKid1973]

I think the actual submitting/acknowledgment part ia a one time experience. Some where you consciously acknowledge you have sinned and repent of your ways...It's then after that sealing of the Holy Spirit you learn to acknowledge His Lordship and daily die to your flesh...There has to be a point to start and then the process to mature and produce fruit...Just belonging to a church and going through the motions does not make you a christian..The inward conversion can't help to cause an outward change..

1973 had me into the "Chariots of the Gods" believing we were seeded by aliens and they produced the great pyramids and the like...Little did I know that a bible study was going on and they were praying for my druggie buddy and I plus others in the office..This cute petite blonde gave me a tract called"This is your life" and invited to me an evangelistic out reach.. I went and heard a simple gospel message went fwd, acknowledged my sin and repented and gave my life to Christ.. I went home exhausted and went to bed...I laid in bed and felt this presence I never has I didn't know wether to laugh or cry as I was overwhelmed by this love I couldn't explain..I literally felt washed inside and felt like a weight was lifted from me..I had more experiences later over the years..

Meanwhile was buddy was having a similar experience else where..The office was surprised at what happened to us..We started passing out tracts and talking to others about Jesus..Some believed and turned to Christ while others rejected the message.. We just saw God come alive at that chocolate plant and ended up having bible studies at two more locations that are still going on today..I was water baptised a year later and was baptised in the Holy Ghost a year later which really set me on fire. We are still walking with Christ and sharing His message of love to others..

I could go on and on but I'll give you a break..blessings in Christ..Kim

[AMDG]

I think the actual submitting/acknowledgment part ia a one time experience. Some where you consciously acknowledge you have sinned and repent of your ways...It's then after that sealing of the Holy Spirit you learn to acknowledge His Lordship and daily die to your flesh...There has to be a point to start and then the process to mature and produce fruit...


Okay, this is what I mean. Before I even knew that my Grandmother (God rest her soul) had had me Baptized, I doubt if anyone would have been able to tell if I was anything. Then there was a day when my friends were "playing" with a blue plastic chalice. They were telling me what happened at their Church and about Our Lord and I wanted it so badly. Of course that didn't mean anything right then. However shortly after that, things changed and I became one of the everyday Catholics, learning (but not in depth) and simply making the Sacraments like all good little Catholics. But that was it. I had to ask for Confirmation (that wasn't a given) and much later I refused to give up my Faith to marry and insisted on marriage in the Church. Still I lacked so very much. In no way could I be called devout. I just went with the "flow". Yet, my husband and I had priest friends and we went to Bible Studies or workshops. Later, there was a real searching for what was lacking. (But I'd say that it was mostly "head knowledge" not "heart knowledge".) By this time I knew that there was something "more than before", yet even after the "Baptism in the Spirit" seminar, things were basically the same. More Bible Studies and spritual reading followed, but still... And then a particularly heartbreaking event found me going before the Tabernacle where I cried my eyes out. Don't know how long I was there but when I left I had a feeling that everything had changed (even though I knew that it stayed the same.) My Faith is much more than at the plastic chalice and more than at my wedding and more than at the seminar, but at the same time there is much more to learn. It's not a one time thing--it's ever changing. It is not stagnant. It is dynamic. And I can't explain it. It's mystery.

[HisKid1973]

Thanks for sharing more...Stagnant is scary place(like lukewarm) it should be changing daily to get closer to Him. People put Him on the back burner and backslide are they lukewarm or carnal? Where do we put the "tares" who just go through the motions and warm the pews with us.. When I read of people's faith crisis's...My first thought to them is "do you really "know" Him, have you had an intimate experience with Him"..shalom..Kim

[CatholicFlame]

Dear all in Jesus,

I am grateful to hear both of your testimonies AMDG and HIskid. I feel strongly inspired to tell about mine in some detail here. I hope this helps us go forward in our understanding of being "born anew."

Well first off I was raised nominally catholic. I received baptism, first confession and first communion and then shortly after that I stopped attending church. This was about at the age of 9. then for the next 15 years or so, I had no religious teaching and basically lost any belief in the Lord Jesus. This continued until a set of experiences that I guess you would call religious. However, although they did lead me to think of God again, they were not so much your average religious experiences. In particular, using lsd once I had a real regret of my sinfulness in not helping others. And later, using another hallucenigan drug I began to believe in God for the first time in more than 15 years. I wouldn't say that I kne wHim very well, but for about a month after that experience, It dawned on me that I should be a loving person.

Well from that day until about 4 years later, I studied all kinds of books. I had never liked to read before though! But now I was so hungry for something that I didn't really know of actually. How strange that time was. I found myself caught up in drugs and also at the same time, struggling to find meaning in life. I read alot of new age and spiritual read ing type books. Much of it spoke of the nessecity to love and to help others. I did start to change some at this time. I wanted to grow, but I had no idea where I was growing to. It was confusing I must say.

Well I read a good news for modern man new testament at one point. And ya know, just reading a little of that bible caused me to experience two things. First I thought: Jesus is the most beautiful person who ever lived.

And the Second was: I realized taht He was speaking to me when he spoke of sin and eternal death. I knew that I was headed for eternal damnation.

Well that day I threw myself on teh ground and begged Him with many many tears to forgive me and save me. And as I begged and prayed, I felt this wonderful peace and lightness come over me. Like a stillness entered there into the room and even myself, It was the forgiveness of the Lord and I just got up knowing that I was forgiven! I was thakning Jesus so much that day.

But, alas, that was not the end! I was still heavily involved in sin and I was kind of confused but I did not really know who Jesus was. This part is hard to explain. I asked Jesus to forgive me that day but I didn't really know Him. I didn't really understand much of teh bible at all actually, and I still liked reading new age books and everything. I was mixed up for certain.

I even remember a friend who I made at that time who was catholic. We used to talk about spiritual things, the meaning of life and all. The funny thing was, I bought Him one of my favorite new age books and he called me a few days later and said that we could not be friends any longer. I guess he read what was in there.

Well let me just continue this a little more, this is along version of my testimony! I don't think I have written this much of it for anyone before. I hope that this helps someone who is reading it.

Well what happened next was that I really didn't pray to God so much as do meditation. I was having all kinds of weird transendantal experiences and locutions and really weird phenomenom. I meditated alot btw.

So to move forward, I got so deep into sin, and I had put the bible away pretty much since tht first time of reading it, that I got really really depressed. I was caught up in a world of pornography and lust and it was destroying my very soul.

I contemplated suicide alot and almost did do something until one fateful night when God came to me and spoke words of help that I desperately needed.

I will try and continue this later in a new post. Thank you for listening to this, my testimony.

[golfjack]

The Bible says we must be born again to enter the Kingdom. So where is the problem? The trouble is iin the heart, the inward man, the spirit. Merely to treform the outward man or the outward life will not save us. Pay attention to what Jesus said in Mark 7:21-23.

The New Birth is the rebirth of the human spirit. The real man is spirit. The spirit opperates through the swoul ( man's intellect, emotions, and will. And the soul in turn operates through the physical body.

I was a Catholic for many years and they just didn't teach this. In fact, I had no Bible instruction at all when I was in the Catholic Church. We need to know we are spirit, soul and body. If the Catholic Church would understand this concept, their doctrine would be much better and line up with the Word of God.


Peace, Golfjack

[CatholicFlame]

Greetings to you GolfJack,

Thank you for your response. I do agree that we should make a conscious decision to follow Jesus. That is a gvien in Christianity. I do think that the Church does implement this in her preaching to turn to Christ and live His way. Howver, maybe sometimes it takes many years for us to be convinced that this is really truth.

Also I find that in our prayers at easter time, we are always called to make a profession of faith in Jesus and to renounce the devil and all his works. This is very similar to accepting Jesus as Lord if you read into the prayers for renewla of baptismal promises.

The problem though, is that sometimes people just need to listen to what is being said at church!

Adn that takes the grace of God. Sometimes it takes years and years. Infact, I don't think that I have fully listened to God personally. I would be perfect if I had.

[HowardDean]

Q: Do catholics need to have a conversion experience to be saved or are just receiving the sacraments enough?
Bear with me in mercy please.
Yes; sacraments not enough.
I was made to go to a Catholic church when young. Was baptised, holy communed, etc.
I prayed often, never heard a word back from God, never was happy.

Left. Found book at age 19, read it. Prayed the prayer, asked Jesus to come into my heart.
I felt lighter(and I was way underweight as it was).
I felt clean. I was spiritually alive when I had been dead before.
When I sinned, I realized it and didn't like it. That was new.
God answered!
Sincerely, thats my experience and I live by it.

[CatholicFlame]

Howard Dean,

if only all of that could have happened to you while you were still young. I wish the same for every follower of Christ.

[CatholicFlame]

Hey HD,

I forgot to mention that you made me laugh when you posted:

I felt lighter(and I was way underweight as it was).

lol. You have a good sense of humor sis

[CatholicFlame]

Hi all,

I wanted to continue my testimony for this thread.

So. If you remember from my previous post, I had gone through some real changes and the Lord had indeed done some things for me. However, I was not living or praying or thinking of Him much. In fact, and this may sound hard to understand, I had asked Him to forgive me my sins that one day, but I still did not know Him. I know it sounds strange, but that is the truth. As I think about it now, I think that when I asked Him for forgiveness that day, it was totally a move of the Holy Spirit in me. I did not even deserve to ask Him. And I did not even know Him to be certain! Wow how odd this must sound.

Well, anyways, I was at a very very low time in my life at this point. I was on the verge of suicide and I often found myself so angry. I reached like a deep desperation I think, but although I had read the bible to some degree, like I said I had no clue. I did not even realize that I was living in sin because of all the non-biblical books I had read that kept me away from asking His mercy. I was living in some serious sin at this time btw.

So this one night, I could not sleep at all. And I really really wanted to. But something was just stopping me from being able to sleep! And I was totally suicidal that night. Like I kept thinking of ways to kill myself and how great that would be and all that. I was in the grip of Satan, I realize now. Well I was totally racked with anger and hatred. But For the life of me, I could not sleep so that I could just escape myself that night. I was forced to face myself that night.

So, this is what happened. Two things realy powerful happened to me. The first was, I had the idea to turn on the radio to distract myself, cuz I was really freaking out there. And in the middle of the night like 4 in the morning, I clicked on the radio and the first words I heard were: "If you are going to kill yourself, don't do it! Call us right now, 1800..... " And I kinda just listened for a minute. It was not so much a religion show or anything, It was a government suicide prevention program. So as I listened for a few minutes and then, agrily exclaimed at the radio : "I don't want your help! I know what you wil say if I call! I have read enough psychology books! You are going try to talk me out of it, and I don't want your help!"

Wow, I must have been possessed, or close to it.

So I turned off the radio and then sat there freaking out again, thinking how to kill myself and just enjoying the thought of it so much.

And then something happened. What it is, I still don't know exactly though, because I kind of can't place it in my memory, it is like a blank spot there. Like something happened but I can' see it. All I know is that one minute I was freaking out, and the next the bible was opened in my hands and I was in mid-sentecne reading it.

I actually caught myself and said, "whoa! I'm reading the bible..." I was surprised.

And this is what happened that important night. As I continued to read it, I just felt this great peace washing over me. It was like I was literally underneath a waterfall of peace, pouring down on my head and body. And then it was like I heard God say something to me in my heart. Hard to describe, He often speaks with a voice that has no sound. Hard to describe.

But He said "receive my peace. receive my peace."

And I cried and cried. Tears just flowed out from my eyes and I softly fell asleep that night after a lil while.

The next morning when I woke up, I said to myself "I want to read the bible."

the end!!!

Or so it seemed! How stragne this journey to Christ is. And how merciful is Jesus the Lord.

[HisKid1973]

Thanks for sharing. Sometimes the journey to miry pit we find ourselves in takes a while to. Thank God He provides a way out through Christ Jesus..I have a friend who was high on lsd when he felt God speak to him..He came down and went right to someone to show him how to get right with the Lord...He never looked back.. He just has calling for street ministry and kids will listen to him...We just need to be ready in season and out to share the hope of Christ in us..shalom..Kim

[Peaceful Dove]

I love this thread.
In a little bit I will post my testimony for my Conversion Experience. I want to read a little more first.

[Peaceful Dove]

Well here goes. It is a little long so please bear with me.

I grew up a Protestant. My Grandma was Methodist and Grandpa was Presbyterian. My Aunt and my Mom were into Christian Science and Unity and strangely Kathryn Khulmand and Amy Semple McPherson.
My mom and stepdad were very anti-Catholic. This was drilled into me by them but never by my grandparents or aunt. They just never spoke of or about Catholics.
As a child I was drawn to church. My mom wouldn't take me so from 5 years old I walked to the closest one. I sometimes went to the kids Sunday School but always stayed for the adult services. Since we moved fairly often there was a variety of churches. Bear in mind that there was no such thing as a non-denominational Church then, they were all mainline denominations. So I attended mostly Baptist, Nazarene, 4 Square Gospel, but others as well. I watched the adults answer altar calls and would dream about it at home. Step dad was an alcoholic so home was not a happy place. I went to the Grandparents for my happy times. As I got a bit older I started answering Altar calls. Nothing at all happened to me. I saw changes in the others and saw that they were experiencing something but I just never did and I wanted it so bad.

All I wanted for my 12th birthday was a white Bible with my name on it and I got it. I treasured it and still have it.

I wanted that "Born Again" experience so bad and in the meantime was growing more and more anti-Catholic.

When I was 17, I met the man who was to become my husband. I fell deeply in love with him and him with me. He was an Italian Catholic!!! He had been educated through college in Catholic Schools and knew the answers to all of my nasty comments about his church.
Well as much as he loved me, he would not marry outside his church. I reluctantly agreed. To do this, I had to take some classes. Back then, they didn't have RCIA. There was a very old Irish Priest who would teach me what I needed to know.
I was soon to know he was also a very wise old guy. He realized I had cut my teeth on the Bible and had memorized great parts of it which I didn't hesitate to toss at him. He was, to my suprise a Scripture Scholar. In the Catholic Church, this has much greater meaning than it does in other Religions. This man had spent, maybe 60 years doing nothing but Scripture Studies. He was not married, had no parish, none of these distacting things in his life. He studied and taught Sacred Scripture mostly to other scholars. He knew his stuff. Besides he was multi-lingual and translated from Hebrew and Greek as if it was his first language.

At any rate he quietly answered every one of my slams and then taught me why the Church teaches as it does.
About 2 months before my wedding, I had decided to convert. By this time I was 18 and could didn't need my parents concent, which they would never have given. It caused some hard feelings for quite a few years.

At any rate the day of my Baptism, Al's very Italian family put on a dinner party for me. We were all so busy with that, the actual baptism didn't mean much.

(to be continued)

[Peaceful Dove]

The following day, I went over to the Church just to pray. It was very dim, no lights were on.
I sat in the front pew. I just sat, thinking about what I had done. After a few minutes I heard someone speak my name. I turned and looked but no one was in the Church, just me. It was a little strange feeling. Then I heard my voice again, louder this time and just as if someone was there speaking to me. But when I looked around, I was still alone. The third time my name was spoken even louder and up and in front of me.
There were windows around the top of the Church. There was a flag hanging on the wall with an eagle on top. The bright sunbeam coming in the window caught the figure of the eagle and projected it right above the Crucifix. The entire Crucifix was lit up in that sunbeam as if it were on fire and for all the world it looked like a Dove hovering above it. I caught my breath.

Then I heard the voice again. He said" my name and then I did this just for you. If you were the only person on this earth, I would have done it just for you". This took on the most awesome meaning. I just broke into tears and sobbed. My heart filled up with the Lord. At that moment I knew I had been washed clean of my sins by the Power of the Blood of the Lamb. I was indeed Born again. The thing I had searched for all my life was found. This was in 1955.

I had fled pentecosal churches as a kid after a horrible experience. I wanted nothing to do with them.
I had fallen in love with the Pre-Vatican II church. The latin, the bells and incence. High Mass with all the candles.
Then in the early 1960s Vatican II. This was followed immediately with the Charismatic Renewal. I had no idea what it was but if I had, no one could drag me into it. Well no one but my God and He did. Kicking and screaming the whole way. First into the hated Catholic Church and now into the frightening Charismatic Renewal.
This is a whole different story.

[CatholicFlame]

wow too good to be true. But, lol, it is true! lol

I think that God had a plan for your life. lol

And to think that here we are together here in this Catholic Charismatic thread today. God is just too wonderful my sister. Too wonderful for words.

peace

p.s. I wanna hear the continuation next, right here!

[MoNiCa4316]

wow thank you for sharing your testimonies! Praise God for what He did and is doing in your lives! That is awesome!!
I do think that it's important to make a conscious decision to follow Christ, simply because that is us surrendering to Him and saying 'yes' to salvation..to what He's doing in us. Faith is a conscious thing. I can't say that no one else can be saved, because that is not for me to decide. But having a 'conversion' experience has helped me, even though I was already baptized when it happened.

So..for me, I was baptized as a child..I was around 12 although I can't remember the exact age...but I didn't really care about God, I just thought He existed. I didn't know what He's like or anything. And when I was around 16-17 I started thinking that no one religion can be true, and that God is just a 'force' out there...I thought I was a Christian but my beliefs were more agnostic with some new age ideas thrown in. I was reading one of my old journals recently and in it I was talking about reincarnation and stuff like that...I also knew a girl who was into astral travelling, etc, and I almost tried it. I'm so glad I didn't though!.

No one had really explained Christianity to me. I sinned a lot but didn't really care that much...I had a lot of bitterness in me and couldn't forgive others. I lived with that anger for several years. It was probably hard to live with me, now that I look back. I tried to fill that void in me with all kinds of things.

And then I came across CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" and after I read that, it was like I saw a new world before me...it was so different than any of those other religions I read about. I accepted Christianity then, but I still didn't know God...I believed He existed, and that salvation is possible through Him...but He didn't really mean much to me and I didn't give my life to Him then.
I don't remember the exact day this happened but ..I had met some Christians and I saw a real joy in their lives..and they really seemed to care about God, and I couldn't understand it but wanted to be like that too. So I just started praying to God and told Him that I needed Him in my life, and repented of my sins...and ever since then I felt like I was one of them. But more importantly I began to really care about Jesus and want to be closer to Him. I remember one day I was surprised to notice this change in me. I'm still on the journey! :)

I don't have one of those really big awesome conversion stories like some of you...mine was more gradual..but sometimes I look back and it seems like my life is divided into two parts, before I knew Jesus, and after. I wonder how I ever lived without Him lol and even thought I was alright. I see now how much I struggled with sin...and I still do at times but the Holy Spirit brings me back. Also sometimes I think...why me? How did this happen that I began to believe in God? I really can't tell you, lol. I'm soo glad though.

That's my simple little story :)

btw Peaceful Dove, I would also love to hear how you became a charismatic Catholic! If you want to share, that is :)

God bless

monica

[CatholicFlame]

Monica your conversion experience is beautiful. You saw the love and beauty of Christ and you wanted to belong to Him. On a deep level, this is what I see happened to you. But from the outset you were called to Him also I beleive, He was most assuredly bringing you to Himself all of your life, step by step. And we are still on the journey as you said!

Amen, sis keep striving for the prize of eternal life in Christ Jesus. He loves you tenderly, and forever.

I would love to hear what happens after you receive confession and communion again sis! I think that you are gonna receive an awesome experience of the Lord that you might never forget as well.

[MoNiCa4316]

Monica your conversion experience is beautiful. You saw the love and beauty of Chrsit and you wanted to belong to Him.

:wave: You know that is still true for me today..when He shows me more of His love and beauty, I want to belong to Him even more! lol! I mean I just want to surrender more to Him..

On a deep level, this is what I see happened to you. But from the outset you were called to Him also I beleive, He was most assuredly bringing you to Himself all of your life, step by step. And we are still on the journey as you said!

Yup :) I think so too.

Amen, sis keep striving for the prize of eternal life in Christ Jesus. He loves you tenderly, and forever.

I would love to hear what happens after you receive confession and communion again sis! I think that you are gonna receive an awesome experience of the Lord that you might never forget as well.

:hug: I'll tell you about it when it happens. I hope it would bring me closer to God because I've been thinking about Communion a lot recently and it seems like it can really do that...well obviously, since it's His blood and body :)

God bless

monica

[CatholicFlame]

Monica my sister,

I found a blessing for you. When I think of you I always ahve alot of Joy in my heart sis. Well I was thinking that I wanted to give you something to help you prepare for this upcoming holy communion.

And I found it!

here it is a good link to help you return into the heart of Jesus through the most holy Eucharist.

http://biblia.com/saintseucharist.htm

This is my Christmas present to you.

peace and many more blessings for you my dear sister in Christ.

[MoNiCa4316]

Monica my sister,

I found a blessing for you. When I think of you I always ahve alot of Joy in my heart sis. Well I was thinking that I wanted to give you something to help you prepare for this upcoming holy communion.

And I found it!

here it is a good link to help you return into the heart of Jesus through the most holy Eucharist.

http://biblia.com/saintseucharist.htm

This is my Christmas present to you.

peace and many more blessings for you my dear sister in Christ.

wow you know that actually has blessed me!! Thank you!! :hug: I think during the past few weeks..God has been showing me things about Himself that I've never really thought about before. My view of Him is somehow fuller than it was previously...obviously I still have a lot more to learn...but I'm glad! Maybe that's one of the ways He's preparing me for the Eucharist. And then sometimes..no, often..I tell Him..that I feel drawn to being charismatic but the EO church doesn't approve of it, so what should I do. And I feel like the answer is..wait and see. He has a plan. And He wants me to take Communion first, and then it would be clearer. This is going to be a big step of faith for me... but everytime I think about Communion I get a sense that this is 'right' somehow. I agree with it in my spirit so to speak. So I'm pretty sure it's all from God. :)

I want to comment on some things in the website :)

"He gives Himself to thee, not merely to look upon, but even to touch, to eat, and to receive within... Consider at Whose table thou eatest! For we are fed with that which the angels view with trepidation and which they cannot contemplate without fear because of Its splendor. We become one with Him: we become one Body and one Flesh with Christ."

This has probably affected me the most. When I read that..wow..I'm not sure which words to use, but I thought...who am I to take the Eucharist?! It suddenly hit me what a big deal this is. This is the King of Kings!! :swoon: I feel so unworthy right now. But I'm thinking..that's a good thing..because that's the truth, LOL!! I really want to be right with God when I take Communion...but...I'm so imperfect! (duh..)

"To St. Margaret Mary, Jesus said: "Behold this Heart which has so loved men that It spared nothing, even going so far as to exhaust and consume Itself, to prove to them Its love. And in return I receive nothing but ingratitude, by the contempt, irreverence, sacrileges, and coldness with which they treat Me in the Sacrament of Love."

I'm thinking...may it never be!! =(

"It is not possible to have a union of love more profound and more total: He in me and I in Him; the one in the other. What more could we want?"
"Be convinced that there is in your life no more precious time than that of Holy Communion and the moments following, during which you have the happiness to be able to speak face to face, heart to heart, with Jesus."

When I read this I was kinda wondering...is that true? I am willing to believe that...and I think I already do, because I feel that in my heart. Well then I remembered the verse in the Bible .."come and see". and also "taste and see that the Lord is good". That really feels like an invitation. wow.. !!! I think I'm beginning to realize what God has actually called me to...and it's already kinda too much lol. But..I'm so doubtful and selfish and afraid! =(

it's called grace, monica. LOL. I can't ever deserve Him.

hmm.. I think the Lord lead me to this forum! :D I'm thankful for all these discussions!

[CatholicFlame]

Monica what you revealed in your responses puts many an apostolic christian to shame. I thank you from the depths of my heart. "I know that the Lord is good. His mercy endures forever and ever. Amen"

peace be with you in Christ.

[MoNiCa4316]

:hug: thank you dear brother.
"I know that the Lord is good. His mercy endures forever and ever. Amen"
Amen.


..tomorrow morning I'm going to confession and maybe that's when I'll be taking Communion too, if I'm allowed!! I can't believe it's tomorrow!! Please pray for me..:)

[HisKid1973]

I think an interesting point comes up here..God can really get our attention to get us on the right path.....I'm not trying to get controversial but I think sometime these programs big mainline churches have can lead people to a false sense of security.. reaching a certain age going through a program and baptism can just become a rote experience to be a "christian" and have no born anew experience...I wonder if just these are the tares among us..Even altar call responses can be done with no real repentance....There are other issuses here also....

According to 1 Cor 3 there appears some at judgement put there faith on the bottom of their list and get in into heaven with just ash and no gold/silver , precious stones to throw before our Savior.. Here is where I think the spirit filled life kicks in , not that you have to be do the tongues and all the charasmatics things but have a heart on fire and a desire to be pure before the Lord... I think flesh is our worst enemy here robbing us of our ministry as unto the Lord..Personally I thing the Spirit filled live gives the most access to all God has for us rather than membership in any one church..shalom..Kim

[CatholicFlame]

Monica pray that you will be able to receive Him in the eucharist my sis. I will also be praying for you too.

St. Faustina, pray for us.

God please make this path clear for her, a path in this desert of life, even Union with you in this holy Sacrament of your love.

We pray this in Jesus' name, amen.

[SisterKatie]

thanks for sharing all of you..
puts certain things into perspective for me about my own life as it is right now.

[MoNiCa4316]

Monica pray that you will be able to receive Him in the eucharist my sis. I will also be praying for you too.

St. Faustina, pray for us.

God please make this path clear for her, a path in this desert of life, even Union with you in this holy Sacrament of your love.

We pray this in Jesus' name, amen.

Thanks CF!!:hug:

GUESS WHAT...lol...I just came back from church, and I took Communion!!! I went to Confession too, of course =) oki I have to tell you what happened:

Right after Confession, I felt a lot of peace. It was soo good, I felt really close to God. The whole Liturgy I was just waiting for Communion LOL...I couldn't really concentrate on anything else. When the priest began preparing the Eucharist, I thought...wow Christ is coming HERE!! LOL. As I was waiting in line for it...I thought...wow I'm a little mortal human being and in a few minutes I'll be partaking of Christ's risen Body and Blood...I felt soo unworthy lol. It's like...the God who lives forever; who made the stars, will be before me - physically...even though hidden. I really don't understand how the Eucharist works but I guess it's all about faith here. I thought...we should all stand on our knees to receive the Eucharist LOL..we shouldn't be standing.

When it was finally my turn...I came before the priest and he asked me my name...and lol I couldn't even speak for some reason, and made such a silly mistake...I totally forgot to tell him my name and went ahead and took Communion!! :doh: aagh! I don't know how important that is.... well..God knows who I am, so hopefully it wasn't that bad. :sorry: I felt like such a fool though. lol.

So I'm really happy, and I'm going to go there once a month to take Communion. I can't go more often for reasons outside my control...(transportation/family stuff). But I think the more I take it, the better it'll all get :)

yay!

I felt God's presence there today...well I also felt Him when I took Communion at the non denom church; I think that's because I really believed with all my heart that He was there in Communion. Even now, I'm not going to say that it was all fake before. That is up to God and I'm leaving it up to Him entirely. But...I guess I'm Orthodox now and I'll be taking Communion at the EO church.

I praise God for the Eucharist :)

[CatholicFlame]

Wow, what do you think of confession huh sis? Did you feel like your soul was washed clean? It sounds like to had a strong experience, really strong.

As for communion, well we catholics just receive Him in a circular wafer and a little sip of the most precious blood. I think that in time God will reveal the answers to some of these deeper questions you have Monica. In time, all will be revealed fully.

peace be with you. I can sense a clarity in your words today by the way.

[HisKid1973]

Amen confession is good for the soul
1John 1 ourselves and corporately between the brethern..16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed.

[MoNiCa4316]

Wow, what do you think of confession huh sis? Did you feel like your soul was washed clean? It sounds like to had a strong experience, really strong.

I felt pretty 'clean' after confession, which kinda surprised me..especially because since there were are lot of people, I didn't get much time for it.


As for communion, well we catholics just receive Him in a circular wafer and a little sip of the most precious blood. I think that in time God will reveal the answers to some of these deeper questions you have Monica. In time, all will be revealed fully.


lol I just found out that the bread and wine at the table after Communion, is not the Eucharist, but blessed bread and wine. Well that's good too LOL I still have a lot to learn.

peace be with you. I can sense a clarity in your words today by the way.

thanks :)
God bless

monica

[CatholicFlame]

Oh that is good to know about the table after communion. I had never heard of that before you mentioned it, (shows how much I know about the Orthodox Church).

God has blessed you so greatly to receive the sacraments afresh as you walk in the love of Jesus, Monica.

[AMDG]

lol I just found out that the bread and wine at the table after Communion, is not the Eucharist, but blessed bread and wine. Well that's good too LOL I still have a lot to learn.


Time out for a second. Are you saying that the Real Presence is no longer the Real Presence after Communion--it's just bread and wine (albeit blessed bread and wine)? Now that isn't true. Hard to believe that the Orthodox Church believes that it is.

[MoNiCa4316]

Time out for a second. Are you saying that the Real Presence is no longer the Real Presence after Communion--it's just bread and wine (albeit blessed bread and wine)? Now that isn't true. Hard to believe that the Orthodox Church believes that it is.

:wave: hi, no I'm not saying that...I'm talking about the bread and wine that's on a little table in the back of the church, which people can eat after taking Communion. It was never the Eucharist to begin with...it has another purpose. I didn't know this LOL.

[CatholicFlame]

That's what I understood taht you were saying Monica. It just sounded confusing for catholics because we don't have that aspect in our worship.

Orthodox believe strongly in the Eucharist, I know, I've met some. And I have seen first hand the effect that the Bread of Life has had in them, our brothers and sisters in the Orthodox Communion.

They are truly recipients of that great grace Jesus came to bestow within us all.

[SisterKatie]

Yup.. I read they even have Eucharistic miracles in the Orthodox Church like those in the Catholic.. ones where the transformation is evident to the physical eye. :)

[CathNancy]

This is a lovely thread, I am happy that I found it. Anyway, my conversion of heart story, I am a cradle Catholic and off and on throughout my life I have been close to God and then drifted away. I was married in the Catholic Church, my sons were Baptised, received First Communion and First Penance, but four years ago it had been years since I had been to Mass with any regularity. On a Friday the thought came to me that it was time for me to go back to church so I went to Mass that Sunday, the first Sunday of Lent. The following Saturday I went to see The Passion of the Christ and for the first time the sacrifice of Jesus really hit home. I always believed that Jesus was crucified, died, was buried and rose again on the third day, but never really thought about all that He suffered for us. As I sat in the theater I kept thinking He did this for me, I did this to Him with my sins. I could not stop crying and asking Jesus to please forgive me. Needless to say I went to Mass the next day. The next week I went to confession and I have never felt such peace as I did as I left the Church that day.

Shortly after I decided that I needed to learn more about what the Church teaches and why and began to read everything that I could get my hands on.

A couple of months later I was talking to a friend about The Passion of the Christ and she said that the movie made her want to be Catholic. I felt panic and thought dear God, what am I supposed to do with this? I didn't say anything to her but prayed about it over the weekend. The following Monday I started to talk to her about the Catholic faith. This went on through the summer and I remember telling her that if she was serious that she would need to go through RCIA classes. She started classes in September and I was her sponsor. I think that I enjoyed the classes as much as my friend did, and I was so happy and excited for her when she came into the Church the following Easter Vigil.

Since that day that I saw the movie, I have become very active in the Church, but I think that the ministry that I love the most is that of Extra Ordinary Minister of Holy Communion. As I stand there and give the body and the blood of Christ to others, I feel so humbled. I can not help but think, I hold my Lord and my God in my hands, what a humbling experience. When I go back to my seat to thank Him for this unbelievable gift, my eyes still well up with tears as I feel His love fill me to overflowing.

Finally, I am now in formation to become a Secular Franciscan. I still can't say exactly why I want to join the Franciscan Order other than to say that I feel drawn to it. I love St. Francis of Assisi and how He followed Christ in a way that I doubt that I ever could. But I love his teachings of bringing the gospel into life and life into the gospel.

I know that I have not been the same since I sat in that theater four years ago and I pray daily that God will never let me go. I can't help but think what an awesome God we have, when we wander away He is never far from us, waiting patiently for us to turn back to Him.

God Bless,
Nancy

[HisKid1973]

Thanks for sharing that..The passion had me in tears also...Some parts I couldn't watch..I think sometimes growing up in the faith makes it harder to know if your really are putting your trust in Christ...Comparing that to some who was not churched and finds the reality of Christ and commits their live to Him. The danger I think is going through the motions following a program and never really "knowing" Christ..

I guess that is why the road is wide that leads to destruction, but narrow is the one that leads to life..I think of this verse..
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves...

shalom..kim

[MoNiCa4316]

Nancy, thank you for sharing that; that is beautiful :hug:
God bless you

monica

[CathNancy]

Kim I think that my problem was that I was lukewarm and we all know what Christ thinks of those who are lukewarm. I agree with you though, that I never really knew Him until He poured out His grace on me. I will be eternally grateful to God and all He has done for me.

God Bless,
Nancy

[CatholicFlame]

It's funny how the grace of God can be there without us knowing it though. I would explain this in that I was led to Jesus by the Holy Spirit without ever knowing where I was being led to. It was God with me who led me to God. LOL

[HisKid1973]

Kim I think that my problem was that I was lukewarm and we all know what Christ thinks of those who are lukewarm. I agree with you though, that I never really knew Him until He poured out His grace on me. I will be eternally grateful to God and all He has done for me.

God Bless,
Nancy

Thanks dear sister..Yes lukewarm is a very scary place...We all ought to keep the passion on our minds..I just think of my sin and what it cost Him..Yes we will be eternally grateful...Creation groans to be released from thi s fallen state..I have no intrest for anything in this old world..Maranatha..Kim

[CatholicFlame]

WEll Kim, this world is indeed passing away, yet we are all called to live in this world to help our Lord spread His love and fellowship with all of His chosen ones.

We live "In the world, but not of the world"

and this is for Christ.

[HisKid1973]

WEll Kim, this world is indeed passing away, yet we are all called to live in this world to help our Lord spread His love and fellowship with all of His chosen ones.

We live "In the world, but not of the world"

and this is for Christ.

Amen.. I just have no interest in worldly acquisitions..It's all in our priorities

[MoNiCa4316]

Thanks dear sister..Yes lukewarm is a very scary place...We all ought to keep the passion on our minds..I just think of my sin and what it cost Him..Yes we will be eternally grateful...Creation groans to be released from thi s fallen state..I have no intrest for anything in this old world..Maranatha..Kim

I agree! I've had "lukewarm" times...they are terrible especially if you don't realize you're there.
And yes, our sins cost Jesus His life. He literally gave everything for us. If we keep this in our minds and in our hearts it's hard to stay lukewarm ;)

[CatholicFlame]

It is our calling to be His chosen ones while remaining here and having to take care of our "tents" (our bodies).

God provides us with care though. We can trust in Him that He will help us. And He really does.

[MoNiCa4316]

:wave: Hey everyone, lately I've been thinking about the conversion experience and its role in our salvation....the Catholic Church teaches that salvation is a process...does this just mean that we have to choose to follow Christ every day and persevere in our faith? Do you believe that something happens to us spiritually when we convert and decide to believe in Christ, and how does that affect salvation?

This is a complex topic...does anyone have any thoughts on this? :) I found this website which really helped me understand what the Catholic Church believes about salvation:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm

God bless :)

monica

[HisKid1973]

Monica..Everyone goes through times of doubt and despair and struggles. They wonder if it is worth it all. We might not be willing to choose Him that day or week or month..I read testimonies how some turned away when their child died and took years to return to their strong faith again. I think of the "footprints" poster that came out years ago..Even when we never felt Him He was carrying us..Yes salvation is a walk, but it starts with a "here I am Lord a sinner, save me"..Sometimes the word is heard and satan steals it away to its grows and reproduces seven fold..We do chose to make good fruit knowing when we do as unto Him we end up with gld, silver and precious stones rather than just make it in the kingdom with a hand of ash. The choice is ours do we want to bring our thoughtlife to the obedience of Christ or do we let the flesh rule and never leave the milk diet..Peace to you..I just love hiding His word in my heart..Here are some more of my fav. verses..peace to you..Kim

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

PS..What changes when we call unto Christ for our salvation..
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

[CatholicFlame]

There are also many verses where the apostles, and Jesus Himself, warn believers not to turn away from what they have received.

It is very mysterious, this life of faith. But when I look at all of scripture, and also all of my experiences with the Lord, I am humbled to know that He is always there for those to call out to Him.

I hope that this helps. The Lord is our Salvation, truly!

[Father Rick]

A brief point of theology here...

According to proper Catholic theology, a sacrament without faith is void of effect. For example, if I see someone on the side of the road who has been in an accident and is about to die... and I give the person last rites even though they can't speak (something I've done following a fatal motorcycle accident)... if the person places faith in the sacraments being administered it is effective for that person. If the person does not place faith in the sacrament, then it is of no effect for the person.

To this end, it is possible for someone to be a "cradle Catholic" and never actually have faith in the sacraments that are occurring around (and to ) them. In such cases, there may be a point in time in their life when said person has a "conversion of heart"-- that is there is an awakening within that person when they, for the first time, truly put their faith in Christ. In such a case, the sacraments suddenly have a new understanding and appreciation of the rituals that they have been going through by rote until that time.

Others, however, have "mixed faith" with the sacraments the entire time. For these individuals, there may not be such a "conversion" experience, since that person has been receiving the fullness of the grace of the sacraments the entire time.

[MoNiCa4316]

:wave: Thanks for sharing your thoughts, HisKid, CF, and Father Rick :) I agree with all of you..... I think God has given me much more clarity about this whole idea since I made that post. Back then, I felt so confused. But now, the way I see it is that it's important to have a conversion experience (it can be either gradual or not, doesn't matter), just to make your faith your own....and that's where it all begins, but it's not the end. The reason we have to put our trust in Jesus is not to have a moment when we're saved once and for all...but to start this whole lifetime of trusting and loving Him. And if we don't lose our faith and persevere, we will be with Him for eternity. It's much more complex I guess than what I've written here...but I think I see the relation between these two ideas: having a conversion experience and salvation being a process. :)

[MoNiCa4316]

.

[MoNiCa4316]

.

[CatholicFlame]

I found it!

Wwo I had to search all over for this thread. I thought it was alot older and so I was looking at the end of the forum and was like.. okay... where is it?

Then Aha! found it.

I was looking because I wanted to share this great article that I recently found about the conversion and being part of Jesus!

so here it is, and God bless us all in this thread!




Falsehoods are "sticky" for some people; they can't let go of them. They continue to believe, for instance, that sunbathing is healthful, or that an alcoholic nightcap improves sleep, or that seatbelts are useless or even dangerous, or that the Pope never goes to confession. One such falsehood that some people cling to is the belief that all Christians are "charismatic" by the fact they are baptized with water and living in the state of grace, especially if they have accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. This position is one that confuses three separate spiritual states: 1) That of a baptized Christian in the state of grace (who is sacramentally and canonically a Christian, "baptized into Christ" (Gal. 3:27); 2) That of a Christian who is "born-again" ("regenerated"). That is, a Christian who has undergone a kind of "conversion." Or a "metanoia" experience, as the Greek Fathers called it, which involves a knowledge of and commitment to Jesus as one's Lord and personal Savior (Gal. 2:20). It is a state which Pope John Paul II said is lacking in many "sacramentalized" Christians; and 3) That of a charismatic Christian who has received the baptism in the Spirit as an experience separate from, and usually subsequent to, a "conversion" experience (Titus 3:4-5).

Each of these three spiritual states can be lost or diminished in some way. The first, by mortal sin (1 John 5:16-17). The second, by loss or diminution of an abiding commitment to Jesus as Lord (John 15:6). The third, by not "living by the Spirit" (Gal. 5:16-26). To simplify the problem, this three-fold distinction can be reduced to a two-fold one, namely, the uncompromising distinction between a "pre-charismatic" Christian and a charismatic Christian-a distinction that seems to needle many non-charismatics, and raises the hackles of some theologians whom I love to challenge.

The Pentecost experience of becoming charismatic by being "baptized in the Spirit" (Acts 1:5) is something clearly distinct from and beyond the experience of becoming a Christian by being "baptized into Christ" (Rom. 6:3) by water. The two baptisms have totally different purposes. Water baptism makes one a child of God in a special way, grafting one into the body of Christ (Gal. 3:27 Rom. 6:3), while Spirit baptism gives one charismatic power to be an effective witness (evangelizer) in building the Kingdom (Acts 1:8; Luke 24:48-49).

The distinction between various baptisms (plural) is scriptural and described as an "elementary teaching" of Christianity (Heb. 6:2). All four gospels quote John the Baptist emphasizing that distinction: "I baptize you with water, but he (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33).

Dissenting theologians claim that it was the Church that corporately received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and all Christians partake of that general outpouring-somewhat like a huge vat being water-filled, with many spigots for individuals to draw from the general supply. In this view, the baptism in the Spirit is not an additional experience subsequent to becoming a Christian, but a privilege that everyone experiences by simply being a Christian and thus partaking of the fullness of the Spirit-presence of the Church from the time of water-baptism. If this partaking could be called charismatic, then of course every Christian would be charismatic from the moment of Christian initiation by water baptism. However, this theological theory was disproved by St. Thomas Aquinas, who showed that within an individual, there is a distinction between the "indwelling" of the Spirit (occasioned by water baptism or Christian initiation) and the "infilling" of the Spirit (occasioned by a Pentecostal experience of being baptized in the Spirit).

Jesus also makes the distinction, in a pre-Pentecost discourse with his disciples in John 14:17, by using two separate prepositions: "with" and "in": "The spirit ... lives with you (now) and will be in you (later)." Jesus thus clearly distinguished between two different levels of intimacy by which the Spirit can relate to an individual. The baptisms mentioned in Hebrews 6:2 were referred to by Jesus at the beginning of his public life: in John 3:5 he tells Nicodemus that a person must be "born of water and the Spirit." Then, at the very end of his earthly existence, just before his Ascension, he again distinguishes between the two baptisms: "John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:5).

The disciples were already Christians, of course, as shown by the fact that they had already received spiritual life for having "heard his word and believed in the one who sent him" (John 5:24). Jesus had assured them that they were "clean" (Luke 13:10), with their "names written in heaven" (10:20). Furthermore, the resurrected Jesus had breathed upon them, even imparting the Holy Spirit to activate a ministerial gift of forgiving sins (John 20:22-23). Yet he told them to pray for (Luke 11:13) and to wait for (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4) a subsequent (and therefore separate) grace of the baptism in the Spirit a "few days" after his Ascension (Acts 1:5)--clearly an additional experience beyond the basic Christianity they had been experiencing.

A close study of the Acts of the Apostles shows that the early Christians regarded it as normal and normative for believers to be baptized in the Holy Spirit; hence, in the earlyChurch a pre-charismatic Christian was regarded as a kind of "sub-normal" Christian.This is clear, for instance, in the case of the converted Samaritans, mentioned in Acts 8, who had fulfilled the two requirements for salvation given by Jesus (Mark 16:16): belief and baptism. Yet, when Peter and John arrived in Samaria, they "prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." (Acts 8:15-16). They obviously had not received the baptism of the Spirit at the time of their conversion and water baptism. A similar example is seen in Acts 19. Paul found twelve disciples at Ephesus who were believers, and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when (or after) you believed?" When they answered in the negative, Paul baptized them. Then, "when Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied" (verse 6). If mere believing or being converted carried with it the baptism in the Spirit automatically, then Paul's question would have been meaningless. The Ephesians' baptism in the Holy Spirit was subsequent to (and therefore distinct from) their belief in Christ and also distinct from their water baptism.

While the baptism in the Spirit is always distinct from the conversion experience, it need not necessarily be subsequent to it, as in the case of Cornelius' household, all of whom received the baptism in the Spirit before they were baptized in water (Acts 10:44-48). In recounting this episode at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:7-9), Peter referred to two separate acts: 1) Purifying their hearts by faith (conversion), and 2) Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Paul's baptism in the Spirit at the hands of Ananias came three days after his conversion on the road to Damascus, and just before his water baptism (Acts 9:3-18). Here again, Spirit-baptism is seen as distinct from a conversion experience and distinct from water baptism.

A common misunderstanding is to regard Spirit baptism merely as a one-time isolated event, rather than the beginning of a "growth in the Spirit," with a need for "refilling" periodically (by prayer meetings, etc.). Hence Scripture urges, "Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing" (Heb. 10:25). When Peter and John joined in a prayer meeting after being released from prison, they were re-filled by a deepened presence of the Holy Spirit (Acts 4:31). The exact translation of Ephesians 5:18 is not "Be filled with the Spirit," but "Be being filled with the Spirit"-an ongoing receptive experience. Thus, it is clear that the baptism in the Spirit is an experience over and above the experiences of water baptism, the born-again experience, and in general the conversion experience. It adds to the "indwelling" of the Spirit a new kind of presence-an "infilling" that is meant to produce empowerment and growth-a growth in the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23) as well as the gifts of the Spirit (1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6).

Although Paul found much to criticize among the Corinthian Christians, still he called them "sanctified," and yet "called to be holy" (1 Cor. 1:2). That is, he attributed to them what some theologians call "positional sanctification," and yet he urged them to "progressive sanctification." The growth factor in this "progressive sanctification" is the Holy Spirit himself (I Pet. 1:2; Rom. 13:16), who "helps us in our weakness and ... intercedes for us" (Rom. 8:26). Hence, it follows that those with a deeper relationship with this "Spirit of holiness" (Rom. 1:4) through the baptism in the Spirit have an advantage in opportunities for graces inducing that growth. (1 Th. 3:13; John 7:38-39).


Ultimately, in personal self-evaluation, the matter of the baptism in the Spirit resolves itself into a question. And this question is not, "Do I have all of the Holy Spirit?", but rather, "Does the Holy Spirit have all of me?" (c) Rev. John H. Hampsch, C.M.F., Used with permission



http://www.sfspirit.com/articles/9902/Article1.htm

[AMDG]

A brief point of theology here...

According to proper Catholic theology, a sacrament without faith is void of effect. For example, if I see someone on the side of the road who has been in an accident and is about to die... and I give the person last rites even though they can't speak (something I've done following a fatal motorcycle accident)... if the person places faith in the sacraments being administered it is effective for that person. If the person does not place faith in the sacrament, then it is of no effect for the person.

To this end, it is possible for someone to be a "cradle Catholic" and never actually have faith in the sacraments that are occurring around (and to ) them. In such cases, there may be a point in time in their life when said person has a "conversion of heart"-- that is there is an awakening within that person when they, for the first time, truly put their faith in Christ. In such a case, the sacraments suddenly have a new understanding and appreciation of the rituals that they have been going through by rote until that time.

Others, however, have "mixed faith" with the sacraments the entire time. For these individuals, there may not be such a "conversion" experience, since that person has been receiving the fullness of the grace of the sacraments the entire time.

I thought that the Catholic teaching on the Sacraments was that the grace of a Sacrament is always conferred by the Sacrament itself. "Ex opere perato". I thought that it was the teaching that the Sacraments work of themselves.

I thought that "Ex opere operantis" is the good disposition with which we preform a pious action (not the Sacraments) in which grace is received in proportion to our efforts.

[Simon_Templar]

Time out for a second. Are you saying that the Real Presence is no longer the Real Presence after Communion--it's just bread and wine (albeit blessed bread and wine)? Now that isn't true. Hard to believe that the Orthodox Church believes that it is.
Orthodox Churches often have bread and wine which is blessed, but it is not consecrated as the Eucharist. I believe it is meant for people who are not allowed to take communion, such as non-Orthodox visitors etc.

[MoNiCa4316]

wow I just read over this whole thread....

I can't believe this was just several months ago!! I was a Protestant then, going back to my family's EO church... and feeling very lost about everything (wow what a time)... now I've decided to become Catholic lol! It feels SO weird reading this thread... it's like something from another life in a way.
My views have changed so much since then.

I enjoyed reading all the testimonies again!!! wow! praise God for you all :D

btw....I saw this post a few pages ago in this thread...

I think that in time God will reveal the answers to some of these deeper questions you have Monica. In time, all will be revealed fully. (CF)

I just want to say, CF you were totally right brother :)

God bless

monica

[Peaceful Dove]

I hope he is lurking somewhere reading.

[MoNiCa4316]

I hope so too :)

(I'll let him know what i just said though on the other page)

[HisKid1973]

Yea I miss CF .. I really felt for him when I saw the beating he was taking in that obob thread...I never though having a born anew/ conversion and desiring to walk a Spirit filled life would cause some much division and controversy..Man I tell ya, heaven's gonna be a real eye opener for some who think they got everthing figured out and explained...shalom..K

[HisKid1973]

Monica, I'll stick by you no matter what icon you wear..I know where your coming from even tho we don't see things the same..peace to ya..Kim

[MoNiCa4316]

Monica, I'll stick by you no matter what icon you wear..I know where your coming from even tho we don't see things the same..peace to ya..Kim

thanks brother :hug: I really appreciate that. God bless :)

monica

[CatholicFlame]

Hi all...

so yeah I really missed you guys.

Priase the Lord, He kept you in my heart the whole time.

So, I am back and I pray that you will all forgive my harsh exit. I am sorry to have offended anyone.

[Peaceful Dove]

Did you get a nice tan while you were on vacation?

Where did you go, Maui, Cabo???? Or just walk around Fisherman's Wharf snacking on shrimp and calamari?

You are a stinker you know. Leaving us like that.

[CatholicFlame]

Did you get a nice tan while you were on vacation?

Where did you go, Maui, Cabo???? Or just walk around Fisherman's Wharf snacking on shrimp and calamari?

You are a stinker you know. Leaving us like that.

I am sorry peaceful, I know I should not have said I was leaving the way I did.

I really did miss everbody here.

and well, I went to some charismatic prayer groups !

[Peaceful Dove]

I am only teasing you. Although I made myself hungry with the Fisherman's Wharf comment.

You needed a break and that is good. I have not been to work this week...throat and sinus infection so didn't have your email address to even contact you. It is in my email at work.

[HisKid1973]

[quote=Peaceful Dove
You are a stinker you know. Leaving us like that.[/quote]...

Amen...:P:P:P

[MoNiCa4316]

Hi all...

so yeah I really missed you guys.

Priase the Lord, He kept you in my heart the whole time.

So, I am back and I pray that you will all forgive my harsh exit. I am sorry to have offended anyone.

soo glad you're back brother! :hug: you were missed!! :hug: now we can all have those conversations about Catholic charismatic things like we used to ;) hehe

God bless!

your sis,

monica

[JacktheCatholic]

Hi all...

so yeah I really missed you guys.

Priase the Lord, He kept you in my heart the whole time.

So, I am back and I pray that you will all forgive my harsh exit. I am sorry to have offended anyone.

I think Bene missed you too. :D

Bene even apologized.

PD and some others got all mushy showing their love for each other. :P

Anyhow... glad you are back :)

[CatholicFlame]

...

Amen...:P:P:P

LOL you two are too funny.

:thumbsup:

[CatholicFlame]

soo glad you're back brother! :hug: you were missed!! :hug: now we can all have those conversations about Catholic charismatic things like we used to ;) hehe

God bless!

your sis,

monica

I am not going to start any fights! LOL very funny Monica...

but yeah, I think that you all will be better at sharing the renewal out there for now. As for me, I am not going to mention it except in here!

(for the time being.)

[CatholicFlame]

I think Bene missed you too. :D

Bene even apologized.

PD and some others got all mushy showing their love for each other. :P

Anyhow... glad you are back :)

yeah things really got put back together after I left...

Hmpph! I guess I really am a stinker after all! LOL

[HisKid1973]

[quote=CatholicFlame
Hmpph! I guess I really am a stinker after all! LOL[/quote]

Amen..^_^

[Simon_Templar]

My conversion experience, and my born again experience are closely linked.

I was born in a Christian family and raised as a Christian, so there was never a time when I didn't believe.
However, I made my own commitment of faith when my family was on a mission trip to mexico. We stayed in texas and would travel across the border into mexico daily. At one point we went to a Messianic snyagogue in texas for an evening service.
The whole day before that I had strangely not been hungry, so I ended up fasting, without really realizing it (I was about 8 at the time). Then later at the service, there was an alter call and I remember, I didn't think "I'm going to respond" or anything like that, it was almost more like I was compelled. Even at the time I remember being a little confused, but being pretty much unable to not respond.

Then, maybe a week later or so, when we got back home from the mission trip, I was baptized. My family, being non-denom protestant didn't believe in infant baptism, so we had to wait until we had a conversion experience before being baptized.

Since that time, I would not say that I have ever fallen away, but I have had many times where I've been distracted and I've had several key conversion type experiences, what I would view as steps along the path of conversion.

When I started being drawn to historic, traditional, Christianity, this was actually one of the issues that really confused me and gave me a lot of doubts. I could see clearly that the bible linked new birth to baptism, but I couldn't quite grasp how that related to what I had always known as "the born again experience".

I finally came to understand that God works in different areas of our being, in different ways. Being born again is spiritual regeneration and it is a sovereign one time work of God. Usually it is accomplished through baptism.
What I had called the born again experience, was really not spiritual rebirth, but rather the beginning of the renewal of the soul by the working of the Holy Spirit through conviction and bringing repentance.

This is one of those things that once I began to understand it started to resolve all sorts of other problems and questions.
I had always found it difficult to reconcile the different biblical teachings about salvation because some clearly presented salvation as a past event, seeming to portray it as a moment in time. Yet others clearly portrayed salvation as an ongoing process.

That was an issue that I went back and forth over for a long time. Only when I began to understand that it was actually talking about two different things (in terms of our experience) did it begin to make sense.