Christian News

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Hi,

How many here read or have read Christian News, and what is your opinion? Our Chruch redieves 2 copys, and the Pastor has been giving me one to read when either he or I think about it.

Mark

[RadMan]

Well I'm probably the only one that will say anything positive about it. I glean a great amount of info from it not only scripture wise but polity wise. I know Herman Otten personally since I belong to his congregation. He also asked me to edit his new book along with some other people. He's been maligned for so many years as an outside agitator since he was never certified as a pastor through the LCMS. You won't get any positive reception from the members here. If you read some of his personal history, which he posts occasionally, you will see why. Most of the comments you read here will be from people that have hardly read any of his articles or his paper. They pick up a lot hearsay that they have heard form other sources and haven't experienced themselves. He was instrumental in making people understand the heresy of Seminex back in the late 60's, early 70's. Since then he has battled against liberal agendas in the LCMS both in theology and polity. And NO he is not anti-semetic as you might hear on this forum. He is against Zionism.

[DaRev]

Hi,

How many here read or have read Christian News, and what is your opinion? Our Chruch redieves 2 copys, and the Pastor has been giving me one to read when either he or I think about it.

Mark

Do you have a birdcage? It's pretty good and catching bird droppings. That's about all it's good for. It's mainly a self-serving tool for Herman Otten and his agenda. It constantly rips apart the 8th commandment. While the section called "Turret of the Times" is interesting, the rest of it isn't worth the paper it's printed on. We get one copy here at the church. After I glance at the "Turret", it gets filed right along side the "Jesus First" waste-of-paper.

[RadMan]

See what I mean. Nobody really reads it. It's like reading the comics and not the whole paper. You don't get the real news.

Otten has paid the price for "fighting the good fight". He has never gotten the true recognition of his sacrifice of trying to bring the truth to the laity of LCMS since the pastors have turned a deaf ear to his help. That's why the LCMS is gravitating towards the liberal left with Jesus First, Ablaze, PLI (Willow Creek's CEO program), unionism, Kieshnick's consolidating power to himself by appointing his hand chosen members to the CCM and trying to nullify the BOD's constitutional and civil authority, and seminaries that turn a deaf ear to their students espousing Roman Catholicism. The list goes on and on but you will find all this info in past, current and future issues of CN.

[DaRev]

I have read it. That's how I know it isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

[RadMan]

Reading "The turret of the times" is not reading all of it. I guess that's were all these "informed" observations are from. I guess a person can get a slanted view of CN from just reading the "comics" since it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter of CN.

[DaSeminarian]

CN used to be available on the table across from our mailroom. I have noticed lately that it is no longer available. I personally agree with DaRev on the quality and I have read it. Jack Cascione and Herman Otten are two peas in a pod that I can not digest any further.

[DaRev]

Reading "The turret of the times" is not reading all of it. I guess that's were all these "informed" observations are from. I guess a person can get a slanted view of CN from just reading the "comics" since it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter of CN.

Like I said before, if you cared at all to read my posts, I have read it. This is how I know it isn't worth anything. It is a highly slanted, inaccurate, self serving, and many times slanderous rag.

[PreachersWife2004]

We get it delivered here, too. Matt reads it, then I read it if I have a chance, and then it gets put in the kindling pile.

I don't have much good to say about it. But I'm WELS so my vote doesn't count anyway! ^_^

[RadMan]

We get it delivered here, too. Matt reads it, then I read it if I have a chance, and then it gets put in the kindling pile.

I don't have much good to say about it. But I'm WELS so my vote doesn't count anyway! ^_^That's odd? Why would a WELS pastor be getting a publication delivered that is for LCMS members if that pastor hadn't subscribed for it? Only LCMS churches get a free copy. Matt must think that CN has credibility otherwise he wouldn't be paying for it.

[DaRev]

Apparently it appeals to those outside the LCMS. Those of us within take it for what it is.

[RadMan]

Yep us LCMS members think it's a great publication.

[MarkRohfrietsch]

We don't subscribe either, it just appears in the Church mail box.

While it can be Slanderous in tone it does make a point. There is "trouble in paradise". It however offers very little with regard to solutions. Neither is it conciliatory in tone.

We Christians do have an inherent ability to polarize doctrine, our congregations, and even ourselves. (original sin) CN does bring this to light.

In situations that become polarized, reality usually lies somewhere close to the middle. If I take the Lutheran Witness (which I do subscribe to) on one hand, and CN on the other, the middle still does not look so good. Through my work I know LCMS members in the Midwest who are very worried about a "melt down" in the LCMS, as are a number of Pastors in LCC.

I have also noted the beginnings of a polarization in LCC, with many of the young Pastors defining each other as Orthodox and Liberal, with varying degrees each way. The ABC district , and the Edmonton Sem. is often referred to as "Liberal", St. Catherine's Sem. as Orthodox. Yet each seem to turn out both kinds.

When Congregations or Pastors err, unless another one or two Congregations bring complaints or Charges, our Circuit Councilors, Districts, and even Synod has no power to do anything.

Our "Orthodox" Pastors also believe that we are heading for a "meltdown". All this at a time when the Church is being attacked by the world, and our memberships are dropping, we need unity more now than ever.

I maybe don't get it, but can't we go back to our Charters, and Constitutions (the very documents that symbolically brought us together in the first place) to re-discover the unity that brought our ancestors to North America, and our Churches together in the first place? We need to put away all the personal BS, and turn our eyes back to the Lord.

Mark:sigh:

[PreachersWife2004]

That's odd? Why would a WELS pastor be getting a publication delivered that is for LCMS members if that pastor hadn't subscribed for it? Only LCMS churches get a free copy. Matt must think that CN has credibility otherwise he wouldn't be paying for it.

I know that he doesn't pay for it...and I doubt the church does. He also gets an ELCA publication, but I don't know the name. THAT particular publication I can't stomach so I don't even bother reading.

How does the saying go? One should go into an argument with his wits about him? Matt likes to know the "other side" of things so that he knows what he's arguing or debating against. It also helps to stay abreast of what is happening in the other Lutheran synods.

Just because he reads it doesn't mean he gives it any credibility. If it helps clarify, he often uses it as bathroom reading to help pass the time. And like I said, it gets used as kindling afterwards. Most of the time we just kinda laugh at what we read, and then we pray that the WELS doesn't go down the same route.

[RadMan]

PW there's nothing funny about Kieshnick and his lackeys violating Missouri State Laws for non-for-profit organizations and being sued over it. There's nothing funny about the president trying to make a monarchy out of synod. There's nothing funny about the "liberalization" of our church body. There's nothing funny about unionism/syncretism. THere's nothing funny about heterodox inclinations with the advent of "open communion" If it happend to WELS (and it's starting with the modified Ablaze movement) I wouldn't brush it off lightly and say "Oh the conservative groups are just blowing it out of proportion". Wait till it becomes full blown in you synod and see how funny it is. When you come on here complaining about the travesty I'll just say that you have a "chicken little" complex and make fun of it just like you are doing with LCMS.

[DaRev]

I know that he doesn't pay for it...and I doubt the church does. He also gets an ELCA publication, but I don't know the name. THAT particular publication I can't stomach so I don't even bother reading.

How does the saying go? One should go into an argument with his wits about him? Matt likes to know the "other side" of things so that he knows what he's arguing or debating against. It also helps to stay abreast of what is happening in the other Lutheran synods.

Just because he reads it doesn't mean he gives it any credibility. If it helps clarify, he often uses it as bathroom reading to help pass the time. And like I said, it gets used as kindling afterwards. Most of the time we just kinda laugh at what we read, and then we pray that the WELS doesn't go down the same route.

I pray that your husband isn't using CN as a guage for the LCMS. It has very little to do with reality in the synod. It is one man's ultra extreme opinion of things, based mainly on his anymosity toward the LCMS for never having been certified for ordination into the LCMS because of his personal theology.

[PreachersWife2004]

That's great, Rad. :thumbsup:

(BTW, the "modified ABLAZE" movement you mention isn't recent. It's been around for a LONG time. And it's nothing like your LCMS' ABLAZE movement, trust me. WE actually know where the focus belongs).

The WELS is currently working on its home ministries. She has seen the error of other synods and other church bodies and is working to ensure that it doesn't happen to the WELS. We understand that without our churches at home, missions won't do a darn bit of good.

The difference with the WELS versus the LCMS? Our synod chose to listen to its members. Our ex-president chose to step down knowing he had made some grievous errors in judgment, rather than run again. We have a new sheriff in town, and thus far he's doing a pretty bang up job. We managed to keep one of our prep schools open, and it's thriving.

The WELS may have its problems, but at least it listens to its members and takes steps when it should. I'm not worried about the same movements that are afoot in LCMS having any affect on WELS because of the fact that we have stuck to our guns over the many years. We don't entertain the popular notions of the day - we stick to what is biblical.

[PreachersWife2004]

I pray that your husband isn't using CN as a guage for the LCMS. It has very little to do with reality in the synod. It is one man's ultra extreme opinion of things, based mainly on his anymosity toward the LCMS for never having been certified for ordination into the LCMS because of his personal theology.

It's just a part of his resources...

It's the only one I read because he leaves it around.

I haven't read it lately, since I've been too busy. But it has always reminded me of the rival newspaper that a group set up in my high school. They didn't like the way the journalism classes set up the school newspaper, so they started their own rogue paper. It was full of useless crap and articles like "to have sex or not in high school" or "top ten ways to have sex with out actually having sex"...really informative stuff for those kids who didn't like the mainstream but mere fluff for people who liked the serious actual newsworthy stories.

To me, reading CN and considering it serious news is like reading the Star Weekly or the World Digest (you know, that rag that's always proclaiming alien invasion or the end of the world) and thinking that you've got your news for the week.

[RadMan]

I hope Matt does take it seriously because it's a rot from within and the congregations won't know what happened to them until it's too late. It's so blatantly obvious and all the LCMS members are waiting and hoping that it will just go away. It will be the fault of pastors turning a blind eye to the problems and not telling the congregations about it. Otten might overstate it but if somebody didn't the LCMS would slide into "liberal, monarchial" oblivion.

[PreachersWife2004]

Ya know, just because pastors and laypersons aren't reacting the way YOU think they should, doesn't mean they're not working behind the scenes.

I believe the LCMS can fix their problems while not airing every bit of their dirty laundry, something that CN does quite well. The CN mocks the 8th commandment with almost every publication, and half the time cannot provide resources period for its news. To say that people MUST take this rag seriously is, again, like taking the tabloids seriously.

I hope Matt does take it seriously because it's a rot from within and the congregations won't know what happened to them until it's too late. It's so blatantly obvious and all the LCMS members are waiting and hoping that it will just go away. It will be the fault of pastors turning a blind eye to the problems and not telling the congregations about it. Otten might overstate it but if somebody didn't the LCMS would slide into "liberal, monarchial" oblivion.

[DaRev]

I think what people need to keep in mind is that it doesn't really matter whether or not Keischnck thinks he's pope or not. The LCMS is a congregational polity church body. The synod has no real ability to dictate much of anything on congregations. Where the synod has failed miserably is in their failure to maintain synodical discipline on those congregations that operate outside of the synod theological guidelines. THAT is the real problem.
While Otten's paper does bring up certain issues that are relevant, his focus is in the wrong direction.