Accountability

[nasa1]

I would like to ask the moderators here, including Tishri:


Do you feel any responsibility when a member of this forum says they no longer believe in Yeshua?

Now I know that people have lives outside this forum, and that people's hearts grow cold and love for Jesus wanes - He Himself predicted that people would stop loving Him, betray Him, and leave Him. So it is to be expected.


I am asking because the Bible says that believers should not be unequally yoked with non-believers. I admit that I do not know exactly what that means, but irregardless there is a warning in our Bible concerning the gathering of unbelievers and believers for whatever purpose. You allow non-believers to teach here. You allow people to state untruths about Jesus here. You even allow people to bad mouth our Lord. Do you not feel that Jesus will call you to account for this?


If not, why?


NASA

[visionary]

Did Paul condemn those who worshipped the "unknown god" or did it become the starting point to lead one to Yeshua?

Dialogue is good. The Lord can work with that.

[nasa1]

But were those worshipping the "unknown god" doing so in a Christian setting?

What do you make of Paul saying believers and unbelievers have nothing in common and should not be unequally yoked?



I am glad to read this by ContraMundum, who seems to have a good sense of responsibility:



From Gertezedek's sad and pathetic thread "I have changed my icon"

For what it's worth, many people reject the NT and buy into the hapless deceptions of anti-missionaries far too quickly.

We have seen a number of threads put up in recent months that sought to undermine the clear teaching of the Christian Bible, and before proper replies could be given, things got out of hand. Sadly I only got to answer once to two of them before the confused parties ran away. I apologise for not taking these seriously enough to reply with my best efforts immediately.

As a former Rabbinical Jew who grew up with the whole gamut shoved down my throat I invite anyone with serious questions about the New Testament or orthodox Christian doctrine to PM me with them before you deny the true Messiah and lose the deepest joy.



Praise the Lord someone has their eyes open.

nasa

[nasa1]

Oh, and visionary, I do not see the gospel being shared with the unbelievers here. Show me one post where the gospel is shared with Chazak, or Simchat, or Muffler Dragon.


nasa

[Tangeloper]

I would like to ask the moderators here, including Tishri:


Do you feel any responsibility when a member of this forum says they no longer believe in Yeshua?

Now I know that people have lives outside this forum, and that people's hearts grow cold and love for Jesus wanes - He Himself predicted that people would stop loving Him, betray Him, and leave Him. So it is to be expected.


I am asking because the Bible says that believers should not be unequally yoked with non-believers. I admit that I do not know exactly what that means, but irregardless there is a warning in our Bible concerning the gathering of unbelievers and believers for whatever purpose. You allow non-believers to teach here. You allow people to state untruths about Jesus here. You even allow people to bad mouth our Lord. Do you not feel that Jesus will call you to account for this?


If not, why?


NASA
I am new to this particular forum, as I am just beginning to study Messianic Judaism.
However, I have not seen any evidence of unbelievers "teaching" within this forum. The only thing I have seen is when someone has a question about how the Jewish religion views a particular subject, which obviously requires a person of Jewish faith and/or background to answer.

As far as evangelizing to those of Jewish faith who frequent this forum. Sharing the gospel takes on many forms. One of the most effective is the change that occurs within a person -- a change that can be seen by others when one accepts Christ as their personal savior. Are you saying that we should continually beat the Jews on this forum over the head with the message of the L-rd Jesus and demand that they then change their beliefs? I don't think that would do anyone any good... Simply by being here, I believe that they ARE learning about the L-rd Jesus. That by our witness and by our testimony as to how Jesus has changed our lives they will begin to see the "light". I for one have no intention of continually hounding someone who does not believe in Jesus. From what you've said in this thread it would seem that you are looking for that to happen.

[ChavaK]

Oh, and visionary, I do not see the gospel being shared with the unbelievers here. Show me one post where the gospel is shared with Chazak, or Simchat, or Muffler Dragon.


nasa

We are quite capable of reading all the posts here, even
if they are not directly aimed at us......:)

[ChavaK]

Dialogue is good. The Lord can work with that.

:thumbsup:

[Liorah]

I'd like to know, does one gets extra points for passing judgement and offering up public ridicule?

A good portion of the time I see the threads here and how you all hound each other. I see more ugliness and discontent than I can believe sometimes.

[brachah]

I would like to ask the moderators here, including Tishri:


Do you feel any responsibility when a member of this forum says they no longer believe in Yeshua?

Now I know that people have lives outside this forum, and that people's hearts grow cold and love for Jesus wanes - He Himself predicted that people would stop loving Him, betray Him, and leave Him. So it is to be expected.


I am asking because the Bible says that believers should not be unequally yoked with non-believers. I admit that I do not know exactly what that means, but irregardless there is a warning in our Bible concerning the gathering of unbelievers and believers for whatever purpose. You allow non-believers to teach here. You allow people to state untruths about Jesus here. You even allow people to bad mouth our Lord. Do you not feel that Jesus will call you to account for this?


If not, why?


NASA


be careful.

the jews are the ELECT by our heavenly father.
Jesus was jewish.
"I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you, and through you, will be blessed all the families of the earth." (Genesis 12:3)

btw, unitarian? do u know its origin?

[brachah]

I am just beginning to study Messianic Judaism


hi tange, my best wishes to ur messianic exploration. we have a lot to learn from our jewish brethren while we respect the differences. gb!

[ChazakEmunah]

From Gertezedek's sad and pathetic thread "I have changed my icon"

Yes, it was a very sad thread. The outright attacks on Judaism were absolutely disgusting.

[ChavaK]

hi tange, my best wishes to ur messianic exploration. we have a lot to learn from our jewish brethren while we respect the differences. gb!

:thumbsup:

We can learn a lot from each other.....and we should
always be respectful of one another...

[ChazakEmunah]

Oh, and visionary, I do not see the gospel being shared with the unbelievers here. Show me one post where the gospel is shared with Chazak, or Simchat, or Muffler Dragon.


nasa
That would probably be because we know it quite well and have decided to reject it.

[ChazakEmunah]

hi tange, my best wishes to ur messianic exploration. we have a lot to learn from our jewish brethren while we respect the differences. gb!
I most definitely agree. It is very important above all to be respectful of each other.

[Talmidah]

Oh, and visionary, I do not see the gospel being shared with the unbelievers here. Show me one post where the gospel is shared with Chazak, or Simchat, or Muffler Dragon.


nasa
Well, each of the people you mentioned were Christian and/or Messianic for many years. Each of them studied the Christian texts and even taught them to others. So there isn't really much need for "sharing" the gospel with them.

[zaksmummy]

What you seem to forget Nasa is that God moves in mysterious ways - Gods ways are not our ways.

Just because someone changes their icon and seem to go down another road doesn't mean that they are lost.

God takes us to different places in our lives which at the time seem to be at odds with what went before, but he has his hands on all his children and all will return to him, in his time not ours.

The other thing is that most people hold their views firmly, you hold yours firmly, I hold mine firmly. People will change to be more God-focused by the prompting of the Holy Spirit not through debate. Let him do his job, he's much better at it than the rest of us.

Catrin xx

[SGM4HIM]

Hearing other opinions only helps to motivate me to study scripture more.

Others that have "fallen away" probably were inclined before posting here and many others posted good threads to give balance.

Don't write anyone off. The Lord will continue to reveal the truth to those seeking earnestly.

[simchat_torah]

Oh, and visionary, I do not see the gospel being shared with the unbelievers here. Show me one post where the gospel is shared with Chazak, or Simchat, or Muffler Dragon.Its a discussion forum, not an evangelizing forum. I have to agree with Talmidah, considering all of us have a background in Christianity, is there something new that you think we haven't heard before?

But, here's my bigger quesiton for you: Do you have a single post that "shared the gospel" with any of the above? IF not, why call the kettle black?

[simchat_torah]

You know Nasa, you tainted my "guestbook" with your rude dirty comments. You didn't even have the decency to send such comments via a PM. Now you want us to think of you as some pure white evangelist who is in a position to judge how others evangelize on these forums?

pshhh... whatever. You should outright leave with what little dignity you still have left.

[Ivy]

As per people falling away from faith: People are responsible for their *own choices.

It's my duty to be honest with someone if I feel they're making the wrong choice, but in the end, it is *that person's choice, and I'm not going to sweat codependent bullets about it.

[simchat_torah]

very mature response ivy :)

I agree, no one here is to blame for others leaving MJ'ism. However, I might think a number more have come to MJ'ism through this forum than it has lost.

[Lulav]

I would like to ask the moderators here, including Tishri:


Do you feel any responsibility when a member of this forum says they no longer believe in Yeshua?

Now I know that people have lives outside this forum, and that people's hearts grow cold and love for Jesus wanes - He Himself predicted that people would stop loving Him, betray Him, and leave Him. So it is to be expected.


I am asking because the Bible says that believers should not be unequally yoked with non-believers. I admit that I do not know exactly what that means, but irregardless there is a warning in our Bible concerning the gathering of unbelievers and believers for whatever purpose. You allow non-believers to teach here. You allow people to state untruths about Jesus here. You even allow people to bad mouth our Lord. Do you not feel that Jesus will call you to account for this?


If not, why?


NASAAnd I would like to ask the moderators what the new rules are regarding this forum. There have been so many changes here it makes ones head spin. First question I'd like answered is if this forum allows Unitarians to come in here and teach and preach?

Q: “What do Unitarians believe?” A: “Our beliefs are centred about the three principles of Freedom, Reason and Tolerance. In this church, people enjoy the freedom to form their own religious beliefs without being constrained by a rigid set of rules laid down by church leaders who claim to know better. For this reasons we do not have a Creed representing the received wisdom of senior figures who claim to be our elders and betters. There is therefore no catechism which you must learn to join us, no requirement to swear – as a precondition of membership – that you believe every word of what a church hierarchy claims to be the sole and only truth. It is enough that you are here to listen to what is said. And that is where our second principle comes in. You are invited to apply logical reason to what you hear and offered the freedom to accept it or to reject it solely on what you as an individual perceive to be its merits. We positively encourage our members to question their own and others beliefs. We offer them the freedom to form their own opinions – about any or all facets of life. This is not an easy option. Far from it. In the Established Churches, your thinking is done for you. What is right and true is handed down as THE TRUTH. You are not allowed to question it – even if it seems illogical or improbable. THEY know better and if you wish to remain a member, you HAVE to accept it. That can be very attractive for those who don’t wish to think for themselves. But if you have doubts about the virgin birth, or the ability of Jesus to walk on water, then HERE you are free to apply reason and make up your own mind about what is true, and about things that owe more to the superstitions of a more primitive age, or to the rigid unalterable thinking of a church hierarchy entombed in the traditions of the past. But let us not overlook the fact that many people find that membership of an environment which proclaims to know and preach the known and only truth, to be a safe and secure place of refuge. In this church we sacrifice that certainty for the right to think for ourselves. And, as already said, that is not an easy path, It is one for the mentally robust rather than the fainthearted. But one has the comfort of travelling along it in the company of those of like mind.
And so to our third principle: Tolerance. The first two principles of Freedom and Reason, inevitably lead to an outcome of widely differing beliefs about many matters. There are, for example, widely divergent views about the nature of God – or even in some cases of the very existence of God. It is fairly safe to say that nobody believes in an avuncular grey bearded figure who sits “up there” on a cloud, passing judgment on all mankind. Some think of God as a disembodied “force for good”. Others as a sense of conscience within each one of us. The very existence of God necessarily calls for an act of faith. And that is where the third principle of tolerance applies. Just as we each claim the freedom to form our own beliefs, we believe that a respect for the beliefs arrived at by others is a necessary and vitally important counterweight. Nor is this confined to our fellow Unitarians – we extend that same tolerance to the beliefs of ALL faiths: Anglican, Catholic, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever.”
Nasa, you don't seem to hold to your religions beliefs by this post you made.

[nasa1]

I am new to this particular forum, as I am just beginning to study Messianic Judaism.
However, I have not seen any evidence of unbelievers "teaching" within this forum. The only thing I have seen is when someone has a question about how the Jewish religion views a particular subject, which obviously requires a person of Jewish faith and/or background to answer.

As far as evangelizing to those of Jewish faith who frequent this forum. Sharing the gospel takes on many forms. One of the most effective is the change that occurs within a person -- a change that can be seen by others when one accepts Christ as their personal savior. Are you saying that we should continually beat the Jews on this forum over the head with the message of the L-rd Jesus and demand that they then change their beliefs? I don't think that would do anyone any good... Simply by being here, I believe that they ARE learning about the L-rd Jesus. That by our witness and by our testimony as to how Jesus has changed our lives they will begin to see the "light". I for one have no intention of continually hounding someone who does not believe in Jesus. From what you've said in this thread it would seem that you are looking for that to happen.



There should be honesty - somebody should say straight out that if you do not accept Christ, you are lost. Your Judaism will not save you. Christ is the only name by which we must be saved - we cannot be saved by any of the old testament names of G_d.

nasa

[nasa1]

And I would like to ask the moderators what the new rules are regarding this forum. There have been so many changes here it makes ones head spin. First question I'd like answered is if this forum allows Unitarians to come in here and teach and preach?


Nasa, you don't seem to hold to your religions beliefs by this post you made.



There are many types of Unitarians, Lulav. You can respect someone's else's faith and also preach the gospel at the same time - or do you not know that?
Or do you find that disrespectful? Perhaps for you it would be more respectful to tell them their Judaism is enough.

NASA

[nasa1]

That would probably be because we know it quite well and have decided to reject it.

Right. And Jesus taught that if you share the gospel with someone, and they reject it, to shake the dust off your feet and leave them for judgement.


nasa

[nasa1]

What you seem to forget Nasa is that God moves in mysterious ways - Gods ways are not our ways.

Just because someone changes their icon and seem to go down another road doesn't mean that they are lost.

God takes us to different places in our lives which at the time seem to be at odds with what went before, but he has his hands on all his children and all will return to him, in his time not ours.

The other thing is that most people hold their views firmly, you hold yours firmly, I hold mine firmly. People will change to be more God-focused by the prompting of the Holy Spirit not through debate. Let him do his job, he's much better at it than the rest of us.

Catrin xx




This is one of satan's lies - "God takes people down many roads." No He does not! He leads people down ONE path, to the path of His SON. He would NEVER, EVER, EVER, lead someone away from His beloved Son!

You are sadly mistaken!


NASA

[zaksmummy]

I have to disagree with you Nasa, I recently watched tv programme where a women who had left Christianity to become a Muslim - cant get much further from Jesus than that. 18 years later the Holy Spirit began working in her and drew her back to Christianity. Never say never for the work of the Holy Spirit, that's all I'm saying, and while we're here what about the scripture

Romans 14v10You, then, why do you judge your brother or
sister? Or why do you treat your brother or sister with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgement seat. 11It is written:
“ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’
12So then, we will all give an account of ourselves to God.
13Therefore let us stop passing judgement on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

Everyone must stand before God and answer for their decisions, it isnt for you or me to judge - not the people who have converted to Judaism or the mods on this forum, and that's what you are doing, judging them.

Catrin xx

[nasa1]

I see what you are saying. But do not think that God was the one who drew that lady to Islam. That is crazy. I don't mean to be rude, but that is a crazy thought. Islam is a Jew and Christian hating religion and God would never, never draw anyone to Islam! He only draws people He chooses to His Son.


There is life only in the Son. He would never take anyone away from His Son's loving presence and He would never get them to accept a different religion where they would deny His only begotton Son!
NASA

[ChavaK]

But do not think that God was the one who drew that lady to Islam. Islam is a Jew and Christian hating religion and God would never, never draw anyone to Islam!

NASA

Well,here's a crazier thought:)
Maybe she was allowed to be drawn to
Islam so that she could learn the religion,
language, culture and have access to the
people so that she could be an effective
missionary to the Muslims....
Just a idea.....

[ChavaK]

There should be honesty - somebody should say straight out that if you do not accept Christ, you are lost. Your Judaism will not save you. Christ is the only name by which we must be saved - we cannot be saved by any of the old testament names of G_d.

nasa

I think all of us that visit this forum are quite aware
of how Christianity views those who do not share
it's beliefs....constantly hammering people over
the head with it serves no purpose....:wave:

[zaksmummy]

Well,here's a crazier thought:)
Maybe she was allowed to be drawn to
Islam so that she could learn the religion,
language, culture and have access to the
people so that she could be an effective
missionary to the Muslims....
Just a idea.....
My thoughts exactly.

The problem I see it for you Nasa is that you believe in what Rob Bell calls "Brickianity" - that is you put God into a set of bricks and build a wall which you call belief, and anything outside of that belief is wrong.

As I understand it God is bigger than that, every time you put him in a box he moves out of it, he cannot be contained in a box. Please dont misunderstand what I'm saying - God is who he is, he doesnt change, but he is awesome and our little minds cannot grasp even half of him, so how can he fit nice and neatly into a doctrinal box?

As someone said to me recently and its the same thought I've been having for a while - Gods ways are not our ways - who are we to say how God is working out his plan in other people?

Catrin xx

[simchat_torah]

Here's another thought....

Maybe our spiritual deceisions are personal and shouldn't be judged by others?

I know, sounds crazy. right?

[brachah]

a christian can be more pro-israel or pro-jew, means he/she doesnt have to compromise his/her christian faith which is the bottomline. this is & wl be a lesson for many.

nasa, i was not to the point in my last post. i honor u for sticking to what u believe.

[Bananna]

"Judge not lest ye be judged, for with the measure you judge another you yourself will be judged."

This means: that if you want to judge others on imperfect paths and imperfect theology, God will use the same measure against you in judgement. IMO.

It is a fearsome thing to be judged by our own standard and our own words. Better to let Yeshua sit in the seat of Judgement and to simply live holy and righteous before God and man.

Showing Grace and mercy are more likely to give us oportunity to speak the gospel and be heard, than demanding to be heeard.

***And yes the present rules allow me to teach and to preach.

Unitarian specific teaching will be sent to Unitarian theology to keep peace as this is not the Unitrian forum.

Bananna

[brachah]

Unitarian specific teaching will be sent to Unitarian theology to keep peace as this is not the Unitrian forum.


can anybody pls explain me what is the difference between non-trinitarian & unitarian?
ok, i think i get the answer myself somewhere, they r the same.

[cyberlizard]

i would suggest that many messianics and christians convert to orthodox and other judaisms because neither of the two former groups has a sufficiently good apologetic on the whole to counteract their arguments.

i am about 2/3 of the way through david sterns new book 'messianic judaism' and this book highlights many of the problems the messianic community needs to overcome. When these issues (particularly around the relevance of Torah and whether or not it should be followed (including halakhic codes)) has been adequately addressed then maybe we will see less drift away from Yeshua the Messiah and more drift towards him.


Steve

p.s. i do not see why the administrators should hold or feel responsibility, of course there is a shared collective that holds believers in Messiah together, but each person is still an individual and will do what they see as being right and nothing we can do say or reason will change what they have set in their hearts to do.

[ChavaK]

i would suggest that many messianics and christians convert to orthodox and other judaisms because neither of the two former groups has a sufficiently good apologetic on the whole to counteract their arguments.
An interesting perspective.....but one I don't quite agree with.
We do not encourage conversion to Judasim, and on the whole
quite actively discourage it. Anyone who approaches a rabbi
for conversion is not going to have arguments made whey
the should convert, but why they should not. I have also
found that people who convert to Orthodox Judaism (this
is my community so I cannot speak for the other branches)
as a whole come from very learned backgrounds, having
been Christians or Messianics who are well versed in
the scriptures and faith but have decided via their own
studying of Tanach that they no longer accept their
former beliefs.

When these issues (particularly around the relevance of Torah and whether or not it should be followed (including halakhic codes)) has been adequately addressed then maybe we will see less drift away from Yeshua the Messiah and more drift towards him.
That's a good thing, as I certainly have no desire to see people
drift from their belief in him....



p.s. i do not see why the administrators should hold or feel responsibility .....each person is still an individual and will do what they see as being right and nothing we can do say or reason will change what they have set in their hearts to do.
Exactly....each person is responsible for their own actions, and
the administrators/moderators should never be held responsible.

:wave:

[Baruch41]

***And yes the present rules allow me to teach and to preach.

Unitarian specific teaching will be sent to Unitarian theology to keep peace as this is not the Unitrian forum.

Bananna

Confused, "me" means "him"? as people are asking about "him" not "me". Tks.

[Bananna]

Confused, "me" means "him"? as people are asking about "him" not "me". Tks.
I mean actually I as non Tinitarian can speak and so can all messianics of Prenicene theology. This is in reponse to Lulav's question of who is allowed to speak and teach here. We for the sake of Unity will simply move Unitarian theology to the proper forum. We are not disqualified by our view of God, from full membership here simply because we define The God/Son/Spirit differently than most North American Christians. New posters however are not afforded this privilege. Only those posting politely here 90 days or more on a regular basis and carrying the Messianic icons have full membership.
Those not carrying messianic icons wil be taken on a case by case basis.
Those not considered members here should restrict posting style to avoid teaching here. Basically, we want to be represented by those well trained in Messianic Theology and not those still learning the basics. We only worry about it when someone comes in new with obvious misunderstandings.


Bananna

[Lulav]

There should be honesty - somebody should say straight out that if you do not accept Christ, you are lost. Your Judaism will not save you. Christ is the only name by which we must be saved - we cannot be saved by any of the old testament names of G_d.

nasaActually Messiah/Christ is NOT the name by which we are saved, in fact it is a name of G-d which is seen many times in the Hebrew, 'Salvation', or G-d of my salvation, El Yeshuati or our salvation, El Yeshuatenu.

There are many types of Unitarians, Lulav. You can respect someone's else's faith and also preach the gospel at the same time - or do you not know that?
Or do you find that disrespectful? Perhaps for you it would be more respectful to tell them their Judaism is enough.

NASA your sarcasm is wasted on me nasa. :sigh:Didn't you used to be Messianic then Christian now Unitarian? For someone that can't seem to make up their mind about what they believe they shouldn't be preaching about splinters in others eyes. You still seem to have the same animosity towards Jews you did back a few months when I joined here.

Right. And Jesus taught that if you share the gospel with someone, and they reject it, to shake the dust off your feet and leave them for judgement.


nasaNo that is not what he taught. He was speaking of bringing news of the kingdom and if a town received the bearers or not. we are not to harass but we are also not to dismiss, for with G-d ALL things are possible.
I have to disagree with you Nasa, I recently watched tv programme where a women who had left Christianity to become a Muslim - cant get much further from Jesus than that. 18 years later the Holy Spirit began working in her and drew her back to Christianity. Never say never for the work of the Holy Spirit, that's all I'm saying, and while we're here what about the scripture

Romans 14v10You, then, why do you judge your brother or
sister? Or why do you treat your brother or sister with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgement seat. 11It is written:
“ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’
12So then, we will all give an account of ourselves to God.
13Therefore let us stop passing judgement on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

Everyone must stand before God and answer for their decisions, it isnt for you or me to judge - not the people who have converted to Judaism or the mods on this forum, and that's what you are doing, judging them.

Catrin xx:thumbsup:

I see what you are saying. But do not think that God was the one who drew that lady to Islam. That is crazy. I don't mean to be rude, but that is a crazy thought. Islam is a Jew and Christian hating religion and God would never, never draw anyone to Islam! He only draws people He chooses to His Son.


There is life only in the Son. He would never take anyone away from His Son's loving presence and He would never get them to accept a different religion where they would deny His only begotton Son!
NASA Do you claim to know the mind of G-d and why he does or allows what he does? He most certainly could have allowed this, for his glory and purpose, it is not crazy, just not within the realm of many humans understanding.

Well,here's a crazier thought
Maybe she was allowed to be drawn to
Islam so that she could learn the religion,
language, culture and have access to the
people so that she could be an effective
missionary to the Muslims....
Just a idea.....:thumbsup: That's what I was thinking, what better way to reach inside this impenetrable religion with the truth about who G-d is and who he loves ( his people) than someone like this?

"Judge not lest ye be judged, for with the measure you judge another you yourself will be judged."

This means: that if you want to judge others on imperfect paths and imperfect theology, God will use the same measure against you in judgement. IMO.

It is a fearsome thing to be judged by our own standard and our own words. Better to let Yeshua sit in the seat of Judgement and to simply live holy and righteous before God and man.

Showing Grace and mercy are more likely to give us oportunity to speak the gospel and be heard, than demanding to be heeard.



Bananna:thumbsup:

***And yes the present rules allow me to teach and to preach.

Unitarian specific teaching will be sent to Unitarian theology to keep peace as this is not the Unitrian forum. Can you link me to the new rules since the changeover please, I don't know what they are any longer.


I mean actually I as non Tinitarian can speak and so can all messianics of Prenicene theology. This is in reponse to Lulav's question of who is allowed to speak and teach here. We for the sake of Unity will simply move Unitarian theology to the proper forum. We are not disqualified by our view of God, from full membership here simply because we define The God/Son/Spirit differently than most North American Christians. New posters however are not afforded this privilege. Only those posting politely here 90 days or more on a regular basis and carrying the Messianic icons have full membership.
Those not carrying messianic icons wil be taken on a case by case basis.
Those not considered members here should restrict posting style to avoid teaching here. Basically, we want to be represented by those well trained in Messianic Theology and not those still learning the basics. We only worry about it when someone comes in new with obvious misunderstandings.


BanannaAre you just defining differently like Henaynei or believing something else? From others of your posts it seems you do not believe Yeshua is G-d and that is a biggie for me anyway.

Stone posted this back in early November:1st of all, everybody should know that this is a christian forum. 2nd of all, jews and non-trinitarians are invited guest here. (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=40910614#post40910614)And you agreed: I agree with original OP (http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=40910614&postcount=24)And you wrote this less than two weeks earlier in another thread :

So I only believe in One Father, HaShem/YHVH Creator of Heaven and Earth and of Yeshua His chosen among all his bretheren. Father is represented by the perfection of his chosen son. I'm not saying they are the same One true God, for I believe Yeshua is a man sent from God into a body created in the womb of Meriam.So I am wondering what changed in the rules since then that allows you to hold the belief that Yeshua is NOT G-d but teach and be an authoritative figure here. I may be mistaken but I thought that loose 'diversity' was done away with with the new administration?:scratch:

[muffler dragon]

Oh, and visionary, I do not see the gospel being shared with the unbelievers here. Show me one post where the gospel is shared with Chazak, or Simchat, or Muffler Dragon.


nasa

LOL! Not sure if I should feel honored that I left such an impression that my name gets brought up.

FTR, nasa, I've shared this with people before, but you seem like you need an education.

I was raised in a Congregational home from the time of birth. I don't think I missed more than a handful of Sunday School attendance. I was baptized at 12. In college, I became part of an on-campus ministry that was very involved in spiritual gifts. During my sophomore year, I was baptized in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues. Funny how I can still do it. I was involved with churches until I was 28. I was involved in apologetics for seven years prior to my departure. I've read the the following Christian Bible translations from cover to cover: NIV, NASB, NKJV, KJV, Amplified and Living.

Needless to say, I've forgotten more about Christianity than many attain in their life times (and this is stated experientially).

Thus, I don't need a witness nor a teaching on Jesus. I've tasted that dinner and found it wanting. I don't judge Christians for their belief in Jesus, and for the most part, I receive the same in kind. It's people like you that tend to buck that pleasant trend.

[brachah]

Can you link me to the new rules since the changeover please, I don't know what they are any longer.

http://christianforums.com/t6377770&page=2

[nasa1]

I think all of us that visit this forum are quite aware
of how Christianity views those who do not share
it's beliefs....constantly hammering people over
the head with it serves no purpose....:wave:



I will go by the words of the Bible:


Acts 26:9
I too was convinced that I ought to do all that was possible to oppose the name of Jesus of Nazareth.




The name by which we must be saved belongs to the SON OF GOD - Jesus of Nazereth. You cannot be saved by any other names of God found in the Old Testament.

If that was possible, there was no need for Jesus to come and die for our sins!!!



Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Did Peter say we are baptized into the name of YHWH? How about Elohim? He used the name of the SON OF GOD - not any names of GOD THE FATHER.
If anyone asks the Father to save him without going through the SON, God will not accept him.




Acts 4:12
"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."



Do you people read that? Salvation is found IN THE SON OF GOD AND NO ONE ELSE.



Lulav": Your post was so confusing that I could not read it. I apologize because I see that you must have took some time to write it But I would like to ask you a question: you said that some of the things the Church teaches are "primitive." Can you give an example?


One one more thing; God would NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER, take someone off the path of His Son and on the road to Islam, Judaism, or any other path. WAKE UP and stop putting Jews and Judaism on a pedestal before you end up like Gertezedek - believing that God will only save Israel, betraying the Lord Jesus Christ and damning her precious soul that Jesus paid for with BLOOD!!!


NASA

[Bananna]

Those who are not carrying the messianic icon do not have full privileges to post unless they have been added to the list of accepted memebers not carrying the messianic icon. It is not a matter of correct or incorrect theology but a matter of following the rules. Teaching posts by non messianic members may be deleted. You are free to teach outside the Messianic forum. Non members will please restrict themselves to fellowship and questions only.

[Bananna]

This thread has been moved to debate to allow for more free discussion.
Please remember to disagree kindly and respectfully.

Bananna

[muffler dragon]

I will go by the words of the Bible:

Suggestion: when trying to present a point to an Orthodox Jew, it is advisable to use/utilize Scripture that said Jew recognizes as having authority.

You could just as well quote the Bhagavad Gita, and it would have the same effect.

[visionary]

One one more thing; God would NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER, take someone off the path of His Son and on the road to Islam, Judaism, or any other path. WAKE UP and stop putting Jews and Judaism on a pedestal before you end up like Gertezedek - believing that God will only save Israel, betraying the Lord Jesus Christ and damning her precious soul that Jesus paid for with BLOOD!!!It is a balance but we are to be like Christ and be both a believer and a follower. One of the most important parts of following is that which Yeshua did also and that was pure Judaism as it came from Mount Sinai.. After all He is the embodiment of it perfectly.

[muffler dragon]

This is one of satan's lies - "God takes people down many roads." No He does not! He leads people down ONE path, to the path of His SON. He would NEVER, EVER, EVER, lead someone away from His beloved Son!

You are sadly mistaken!


NASA

I didn't see this gem until vis's post.

I would like to enter myself, S_T, Talmidah, Hix, and thousands of others as evidence that your statement is bopkess.

As a matter of fact, it was G-d Almighty that led me out of the last church I attended and ultimately led me to the knowledge that Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah (among other things).

Bummer to be wrong, Hal.

[nasa1]

be careful.

the jews are the ELECT by our heavenly father.
Jesus was jewish.
"I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you, and through you, will be blessed all the families of the earth." (Genesis 12:3)

btw, unitarian? do u know its origin?



The church is elect, and yes that includes both Jews and non-Jewish people. But remember there has been a replacement: Jesus said to certain Jews, "The Kingdom will be taken away from you and given to a people that will produce the fruit of it." Jewish branches were broken off and Gentile ones replaced them. Also, the cursing and blessing was given to Abraham, and the Abrahamic covenent was made betweeen Christ and Abraham (instead of Abraham and Jewish people, as so many people misunderstand.)







Galatians 3:15-18 NIV
Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed,"meaning one person, who is Christ.
17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise...If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.






If you curse a Christian or a believer in Yeshua, you will be cursed. That is why the holocaust happened, and it is also why the Jewish nation was destroyed in 70 AD.


Also, Jesus did not consider himself Jewish. He called himself the "Son of Man." He was related to all races. He was Jewish, Chinese, Mexican - alll mankind. He did not consider himself, though, of human ancestry - this is clear when he said that John the Baptist was the greatest man born of woman. Jesus did not go around saying, "I'm a Jew and I'm proud of it." He honored God's creation to have the title of "Son of Man." He was a Son of all Mankind.


nasa1

[nasa1]

I didn't see this gem until vis's post.

I would like to enter myself, S_T, Talmidah, Hix, and thousands of others as evidence that your statement is bopkess.

As a matter of fact, it was G-d Almighty that led me out of the last church I attended and ultimately led me to the knowledge that Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah (among other things).

Bummer to be wrong, Hal.



Yes, Muffler, we are all wrong...all of us. I only wish we could be as smart as you and realize Jesus is not the Messiah. Yes, we would all be so smart that we would be destroyed for our worldly wisdom in the lake of fire.

The one that told you Jesus is not the Messiah was SATAN THE EVIL ONE.

nasa1

[nasa1]

It is a balance but we are to be like Christ and be both a believer and a follower. One of the most important parts of following is that which Yeshua did also and that was pure Judaism as it came from Mount Sinai.. After all He is the embodiment of it perfectly.



But Visionary, judaism of today is not "pure judaism."
Also, Paul did not say, "Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers...except the people that follow Torah."


This forum is a church, a synagogue, a house meeting place....and do you think Paul would allow people like Muffler to stay when they tell such lies about our Lord? He would tell them to get out!
nasa1

[simchat_torah]

x

[nasa1]

Suggestion: when trying to present a point to an Orthodox Jew, it is advisable to use/utilize Scripture that said Jew recognizes as having authority.

You could just as well quote the Bhagavad Gita, and it would have the same effect.



I know.

John chapter 8

"I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word..."Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."



nasa1

[simchat_torah]

If you curse a Christian or a believer in Yeshua, you will be cursed. That is why the holocaust happened, and it is also why the Jewish nation was destroyed in 70 AD.
....... uhhh.....

Where to begin with this one...

Someone else please reply to that crap, I'm likely to say things that will get me banned.

[muffler dragon]

I know.

John chapter 8

"I know you are Abraham's descendants.

nasa1

You're really striking out lately. I would have thought that your time away would have given you the opportunity to read/learn/absorb/etc.

[muffler dragon]

Yes, Muffler, we are all wrong...all of us.

Inferiority complexes will tend to make some feel the need to attach themselves to a greater congregation for support. Unfortunately, this ship that you're trying to sail only has one occupant. As you'll note, I didn't reference anyone else. Your insecure projection is problematic.

I only wish we could be as smart as you and realize Jesus is not the Messiah. Yes, we would all be so smart that we would be destroyed for our worldly wisdom in the lake of fire.

ROTFLMAOOL!!!

The one that told you Jesus is not the Messiah was SATAN THE EVIL ONE.

nasa1

Sorry, but I don't ascribe to gnosticism.

[muffler dragon]

....... uhhh.....

Where to begin with this one...

Someone else please reply to that crap, I'm likely to say things that will get me banned.

What can you say to someone who thinks that the Temple represents a nation. He's obviously got personification issues.

[simchat_torah]

Yes... well, we all know full in well that the Jews deserved the holocaust for not believing in Jesus.

right?

[Bananna]

Maybe everyone should take a break for sabbath. This cultural exchange is not edifying.

It would be nice if some of you deleted your posts or edited them so we won't have to clean the thread.
Shabbat Shalom