Tattoo's

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Since the piercings thread is up and running, lets stick this one right next to it. I want to see what people think about tattoo's since I've seen what some have thought about piercings. Are tattoo's good or evil?

[Canuckmom]

I voted yes. It seems to me that if one has to go to such extremes to decorate the body, it's like saying to God, "I don't like the way You made me."

[Mikeb85]

Depends on what's depicted in the tattoo...

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Why should the picture matter? A tattoo is a tattoo, regardless.

[daveleau]

There should be a "It depends" choice in the poll. :) I believe the intent of the tattoo determines if it desecrates the body or not.

In regards to decorations, items such as jewelry, cutting one's hair, and nice looking clothing (not excessive, just nice) could fall under the same category of implying to God that His creation of us was not pretty enough. We have a tendency to dress our bodies up.

I see nothing wrong with tattoos. Tattoos are a decision that must be taken seriously, and our ability to testify should be taken into account. There are some that would be turned off by tattoos, while others would be more accepting of a person if they have tattoos. I have seen both in my personal life.

The content is key, as well. My wife has two tasteful cross tattoos. I have none. My wife is a very devout Christian, and serves God in her work as an artist, in the church and in the community. I have seen people react uncharitably to her tattoos, which to me highlights their weakness in the faith than anything else, as I know of her dedication to Jesus.

Regardless of your personal view of tattoos, I would encourage people to not judge "the book by its cover" when it comes to people with tattoos. The intent of the tattoo says more than the mere existence of a tattoo.

In Christ,
Dave

[Mikeb85]

Why should the picture matter? A tattoo is a tattoo, regardless.

Are you saying that a tattoo of a cross on your body is the same as a tattoo of a pagan symbol?

Galatians 6:17 - From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Interpret it how you want, I'm not necessarily saying that this passage is condoning tattoos, but obviously Paul has some marks (scars, injuries?) on his body from preaching the gospel. And what is a tattoo, but a scar, a symbol of events in our lives, or our personal beliefs?

I'm just saying that if someone goes out and gets a tattoo for the RIGHT reasons, I don't think they're going to be judged harshly by the Lord for having a tattoo.

PS. If you want to quote Leviticus, then at the very least take into account the CONTEXT that the laws were written in, and how we view the rest of the laws...

[Hisbygrace]

Do they desecrate the body, I don't know. But from most I've seen they do multilate the skin. Believe me my youngest son is covered with them.

[arunma]

No, I don't believe that tattoos (or piercings, for that matter) desecrate the body. At least no more so than pig's flesh. Only what comes from within can defile the body. So if a person were to get blasphemous tattoos or other markings that are dishonoring to God, then such a thing would desecrate a person. But in principle, I see nothing wrong with a tattoo.

No way I'd ever get one, though...

[Richard]

There should be a "It depends" choice in the poll. :) I believe the intent of the tattoo determines if it desecrates the body or not.

In regards to decorations, items such as jewelry, cutting one's hair, and nice looking clothing (not excessive, just nice) could fall under the same category of implying to God that His creation of us was not pretty enough. We have a tendency to dress our bodies up.

I see nothing wrong with tattoos. Tattoos are a decision that must be taken seriously, and our ability to testify should be taken into account. There are some that would be turned off by tattoos, while others would be more accepting of a person if they have tattoos. I have seen both in my personal life.

The content is key, as well. My wife has two tasteful cross tattoos. I have none. My wife is a very devout Christian, and serves God in her work as an artist, in the church and in the community. I have seen people react uncharitably to her tattoos, which to me highlights their weakness in the faith than anything else, as I know of her dedication to Jesus.

Regardless of your personal view of tattoos, I would encourage people to not judge "the book by its cover" when it comes to people with tattoos. The intent of the tattoo says more than the mere existence of a tattoo.

In Christ,
Dave

Well said. I selected yes because there wasn't a "depends" on there. I think it really depends on what the tattoo actually is.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Are you saying that a tattoo of a cross on your body is the same as a tattoo of a pagan symbol?

Galatians 6:17 - From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Interpret it how you want, I'm not necessarily saying that this passage is condoning tattoos, but obviously Paul has some marks (scars, injuries?) on his body from preaching the gospel. And what is a tattoo, but a scar, a symbol of events in our lives, or our personal beliefs?

I'm just saying that if someone goes out and gets a tattoo for the RIGHT reasons, I don't think they're going to be judged harshly by the Lord for having a tattoo.

PS. If you want to quote Leviticus, then at the very least take into account the CONTEXT that the laws were written in, and how we view the rest of the laws...
I'm sorry, but you're the one that needs to interpret correctly when you're trying to read a verse:

"Galatians 6:17 - From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus."

Now take a look, and see how it says "IN my body the marks of the Lord Jesus."? This verse goes along more with what arunma said and how I believe. So, thanks actually, for posting it.

I don't think that tattoo's would desicrate the body because your holy temple is inside you, and it's how you feel about God rather than it just being your body.

And why would what the tattoo is matter? Everybody makes mistakes, so do you think if somebody who had a bunch of alchemaic symbols on their neck, arms and chest converted to Christianity, that they wouldn't be accepted by God because they desicrated their body?

[Mikeb85]

I'm sorry, but you're the one that needs to interpret correctly when you're trying to read a verse:

"Galatians 6:17 - From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus."

Now take a look, and see how it says "IN my body the marks of the Lord Jesus."? This verse goes along more with what arunma said and how I believe. So, thanks actually, for posting it.

I don't think that tattoo's would desicrate the body because your holy temple is inside you, and it's how you feel about God rather than it just being your body.

And why would what the tattoo is matter? Everybody makes mistakes, so do you think if somebody who had a bunch of alchemaic symbols on their neck, arms and chest converted to Christianity, that they wouldn't be accepted by God because they desicrated their body?


First of all, there are several translations for Galatians 6:17, and many of them actually do refer to scars/branding ON the body. For instance, the NASB version reads, "From now on let no one cause trouble for me, for I bear on my body the brand-marks of Jesus."

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/versions.pl?book=Gal&chapter=6&verse=17&version=KJV#17

Second, if someone who's already a Christian knowingly gets un-Christian tattoos, that's not doing God's will. Keep in mind many symbols are also thought to have magic powers, and tattooing yourself with them is thought to give you powers...(in certain pagan practices) So yes, the tattoo itself does matter.

That being said, if someone with tattoos converts TO Christianity, I don't think their tattoos matter as far as salvation goes.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Can you get the Greek text, and then the translation for that verse, Mike? I'm interested in what that would say...

[Mikeb85]

Can you get the Greek text, and then the translation for that verse, Mike? I'm interested in what that would say...

Yes, you can access the Greek text from that same website. The word in question is ἐν, which can be translated meaning "in, on, by, with, among, at, etc..." Which is why you get slightly different english translations. The word στίγμα (stē'g-mä)is translated as marks or branding, however more precisely it refers to marks put on the body to show ownership (ie. soldier, slave, belonging to a certain god, etc...)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gal&chapter=6&verse=17&version=KJV#17

Beside each Greek word you can follow a small link which provides more information on the word in question.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

So, unless you know Aramaic, then you don't know how to interpret it, basically.

But why would you think that Christians would brand themselves back in the day? It seems pointless, but then again, it would show that God doesn't care if you'd get tattoo's or piercings, doesn't it?

[Mikeb85]

So, unless you know Aramaic, then you don't know how to interpret it, basically.

But why would you think that Christians would brand themselves back in the day? It seems pointless, but then again, it would show that God doesn't care if you'd get tattoo's or piercings, doesn't it?

The EXACT interpretation, IMO, isn't really that important (which is why I didn't elaborate much in my first post). All Paul is saying is that he bears the marks of Jesus (could be a literal brand, could be in his heart, etc...) - the important part though is that he's saying he belongs to the Lord, so no one can bother him (ie. he's not afraid of persecution). Either way, he's 'wearing' his faith in a way that's visible, which does tie into the topic...

Why would Christians brand/tattoo themselves? Why do the Copts still do it in Egypt? It's to show defiance in the face of evil - to represent the fact that they're Christians to everyone, and to show that they're not afraid of persecution and martyrdom...

[jds1977]

Paul's marks, I believe, were his stripes and wounds he got from the beatings and scourgings.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

See? Those aren't tattoo's, and I could see why he would wear them. But, I still haven't really heard a good reason why tattoo's are considered bad. I mean, defacing your temple? Isn't your heart the root of emotions, and not your flesh? The bible says many times that God looks at your heart, and that he made us to make our own decisions.
So, if the way your hair is done, or how a girls nails are painted, how you dress, wouldn't that have the same effect as getting a tattoo?

[Tony Merritt]

Since the piercings thread is up and running, lets stick this one right next to it. I want to see what people think about tattoo's since I've seen what some have thought about piercings. Are tattoo's good or evil?


I for one believe them to be wrong. The bible states the the body is a temple. I do not believe that God likes his temple "decorated" in this manner.



Tony

[arunma]

I for one believe them to be wrong. The bible states the the body is a temple. I do not believe that God likes his temple "decorated" in this manner.

Not trying to be contentious, but I think we can all agree that our beliefs should be based on the Bible. What is the Biblical support for the idea that tattoos (especially God-honoring tattoos) constitute a desecration of God's Temple? I'd be interested in an explanation that doesn't make an improper exegesis of Leviticus 19:28.


That Scripture is the only one in the Bible which, to my knowledge, discussess tattoos. And if we take it as a genuine moral principle as opposed to an Israelite civil rule, then we would be forced to conclude that medium-rare steak is also sinful, as it says a mere two verses earlier,You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. (Leviticus 19:26)
Indeed the latter would have a stronger Biblical case, since this law was also commanded to the church by the Apostles (Acts 15:29).

So again if I may be so bold: what reasoning do we have to condemn tattoos which relies on the Bible, and not human logic or bad theology?

[DerSchweik]

Personally? Don't like them. I think they are unattractive, detracting from a person's God-given looks. But then, I'm an old fart too...

[Andy Broadley]

I dunno if desecrate is the word I would use, but I personally wouldn't have one.

They might look good when you are young, but as the body ages they look really lose it.

[fushiarose]

I think it matters a lot what the tattoo is. I work retail and have seen thousands of tattoos. It is very common where I live.
Tattoo's of racist things and naked women is evil. Tattoos of offensive nature are bad.
Tattoo's of a religious nature I think are nice. jmho. I like the way the lead singer of Good Charlotte was tattoos with religious, Christian meaning. I have seen regular folks with such tattoos. I also think it is nice to have a tattoo remembering a lost loved one. Tattoos of butterflies and roses are nice too.
I don't have any tattoos but have relatives (sister included) that do. I also have co-workers with tattoos. I just don't think it is a big deal if done in a tasteful way.

[missprayerwarrior]

Personally, I voted no. I think it really does depend on what the tattoo is of though. I don't think it would be right for someone to get a devil or something demonic tattooed on themself. However, I don't see anything wrong with getting something like a cross.

BTW.. I have a descending dove (symbolizing the Holy Spirit) with fire (which comes from Luke 3:16)

[StrawberryShortcake2]

Tattoos aren't wrong, just an expression of who you are.

[PrincetonGuy]

Tattoos aren't wrong, just an expression of who you are.

Tattoos are symptomatic of an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence. It is not just a coincidence that tattoo parlors are typically found in the parts of town frequented by those persons who are the most severely entangled in multiple, life-controlling sins. And it is not just a coincidence that that those persons who are intelligent enough and mentally, psychologically, socially, and spiritually well enough to work in a well-paid profession buy their art from reputable art dealers located in the finest parts of the finest cities in world.

[PrincetonGuy]

Are you saying that a tattoo of a cross on your body is the same as a tattoo of a pagan symbol?

Galatians 6:17 - From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Interpret it how you want, I'm not necessarily saying that this passage is condoning tattoos, but obviously Paul has some marks (scars, injuries?) on his body from preaching the gospel. And what is a tattoo, but a scar, a symbol of events in our lives, or our personal beliefs?

I'm just saying that if someone goes out and gets a tattoo for the RIGHT reasons, I don't think they're going to be judged harshly by the Lord for having a tattoo.

PS. If you want to quote Leviticus, then at the very least take into account the CONTEXT that the laws were written in, and how we view the rest of the laws...

I do not believe that Paul was writing in Galatians 6:17 that he went to a tattoo parlor located between an “adult” bookstore and a liquor store and got a tattoo that said “I am a Christian.”

12. Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
13. For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.
14. But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15. For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
16. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
17. From now on let no one cause trouble for me, for I bear on my body the brand-marks of Jesus. (NASB, 1995)

I believe that it is much more likely that Paul is contrasting the scars on his body from being stoned in Lystra (Acts 14:19) for preaching the gospel of Christ with the scars from circumcision (Gal. 6:12, 13), and boasting in the former as opposed to the latter. Paul, before his conversion to the Christian faith, was a Jew, and not just a Jew, but a Pharisee, and as is pointed out by Dr. Otto Betz, Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies in Tübingen, Germany, in his article on the Greek word στιγματα in the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, vol. VII, pp. 657-664, both the Torah and the contemporary Pharisaic teaching against tattoos make it “most unlikely” that Paul would have gotten any kind of a tattoo or branding mark.

I also believe that the translation 'brand-marks' used in the NASB (1977 and 1995) of the Greek word στιγματα found in Gal. 6:17 is inferior to the translation ‘marks’ found in the RSV, NRSV, NAB and several other translations. In this instance, rather than following the BAGD lexicon as they typically do, they inappropriately departed from it.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Tattoos are symptomatic of an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence. It is not just a coincidence that tattoo parlors are typically found in the parts of town frequented by those persons who are the most severely entangled in multiple, life-controlling sins. And it is not just a coincidence that that those persons who are intelligent enough and mentally, psychologically, socially, and spiritually well enough to work in a well-paid profession buy their art from reputable art dealers located in the finest parts of the finest cities in world.
I'm sorry man, but if anybody is immature, it's you. You're so stereotypical.
I just wanna make sure I get what you're saying though. You think that everybody that gets/has a tattoo is, and I quote you here, "an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence.".....And it is not just a coincidence that that those persons who are intelligent enough and mentally, psychologically, socially, and spiritually well enough to work in a well-paid profession buy their art from reputable art dealers located in the finest parts of the finest cities in world."

So, what you're saying is that only people who buy $250,000 paintings and go to $500 cup wine tastings are the only intelligent, sophisticated types of people?
I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. I graduated from high-school ranked 5th in my class and I was 16. My IQ is 161. I go to college at Florida State University and I'm about to transfer to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh. So, since I have a tattoo and don't own a fine piece of art, that looks like one of my nephews could do better, that means I'm not sophisticated?!
If anybody in this thread isn't sophisticated, it would be you. And the only reason why I say that is because you're so stereotypical, and you have no concept of REAL life. So go on and have fun with your money. All it can buy is material things. It can't buy friends, love, or happiness.

[PrincetonGuy]

I'm sorry man, but if anybody is immature, it's you. You're so stereotypical.
I just wanna make sure I get what you're saying though. You think that everybody that gets/has a tattoo is, and I quote you here, "an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence.".....And it is not just a coincidence that that those persons who are intelligent enough and mentally, psychologically, socially, and spiritually well enough to work in a well-paid profession buy their art from reputable art dealers located in the finest parts of the finest cities in world."

So, what you're saying is that only people who buy $250,000 paintings and go to $500 cup wine tastings are the only intelligent, sophisticated types of people?
I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. I graduated from high-school ranked 5th in my class and I was 16. My IQ is 161. I go to college at Florida State University and I'm about to transfer to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh. So, since I have a tattoo and don't own a fine piece of art, that looks like one of my nephews could do better, that means I'm not sophisticated?!
If anybody in this thread isn't sophisticated, it would be you. And the only reason why I say that is because you're so stereotypical, and you have no concept of REAL life. So go on and have fun with your money. All it can buy is material things. It can't buy friends, love, or happiness.

First you judge me and insult me and then you say that you want to make sure that you correctly understood what I wrote. Having done that, you quote me out of context and make it appear that I wrote something very different than what I actually wrote. I do not think, neither did I write or imply, that everybody that gets/has a tattoo is correctly characterized as having or suffering from an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence. I wrote, “Tattoos are symptomatic of an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence.”

A severe pain in the abdomen is symptomatic of a gun shot wound to the abdomen, but that does NOT mean that a gun shot wound to the abdomen would necessarily be the cause of the pain—the pain may be due instead to any number or combination of other causes. Likewise, a getting a tattoo, although “symptomatic of an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence,” may be caused by any number or combination of other causes.

Much the same is true of the rest of my post and the inferences that you drew from it, inferences of things that were not implied, were radically incorrect.

The frequent use of a good dictionary, a thorough study of a college-level grammar, and an introductory college course in logic may be of substantial help to you.

[MrJim]

PrincetonGuy~ya still got it dude, glad to see ya around again :thumbsup:

[fushiarose]

Tattoos are symptomatic of an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence. It is not just a coincidence that tattoo parlors are typically found in the parts of town frequented by those persons who are the most severely entangled in multiple, life-controlling sins. And it is not just a coincidence that that those persons who are intelligent enough and mentally, psychologically, socially, and spiritually well enough to work in a well-paid profession buy their art from reputable art dealers located in the finest parts of the finest cities in world.
Does that mean that you immediately dislike anyone that has a tattoo? Do you know anyone really good that has a tattoo? Your statement does NOT fit the description of the people I know that have tattoos.

[PrincetonGuy]

Does that mean that you immediately dislike anyone that has a tattoo? Do you know anyone really good that has a tattoo? Your statement does NOT fit the description of the people I know that have tattoos.

I have always lived in the best part of town, I have attended and graduated from only the very finest and most elite private schools and universities, I have attained to a very prestigious position in the top-rated (for academic excellence) university in the United States, and I avoid people with tattoos with more zeal and gusto than I do the Black Plague of Europe. Why should I associate with gutter rats when I have more friends than I can count in the most elite social circles who are famous for their contributions to the fine arts and higher education? For some photographs of my vacation home in Asheville, North Carolina, please visit the website at this link:

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Biltmore_House.html (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Biltmore_House.html)

My primary residence is much larger and grander, but for the sake of privacy I do not disclose the location of it to the general public.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Are you serious?! :D

Ok man, you need to get off your high horse and look around. Better yet, look at what you're writing! You just contradicted yourself sooo bad! Ok, now lets quote your last comment. Direct and uncut, seeing as how you think that I altered your former choice of words:

"First you judge me and insult me and then you say that you want to make sure that you correctly understood what I wrote. Having done that, you quote me out of context and make it appear that I wrote something very different than what I actually wrote. I do not think, neither did I write or imply, that everybody that gets/has a tattoo is correctly characterized as having or suffering from an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence. I wrote, “Tattoos are symptomatic of an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence.”

A severe pain in the abdomen is symptomatic of a gun shot wound to the abdomen, but that does NOT mean that a gun shot wound to the abdomen would necessarily be the cause of the pain—the pain may be due instead to any number or combination of other causes. Likewise, a getting a tattoo, although “symptomatic of an immature personality, low self-esteem, poor judgment, a propensity toward sin, moral depravity, a rebellious disposition, and a basic lack of intelligence,” may be caused by any number or combination of other causes.

Much the same is true of the rest of my post and the inferences that you drew from it, inferences of things that were not implied, were radically incorrect.

The frequent use of a good dictionary, a thorough study of a college-level grammar, and an introductory college course in logic may be of substantial help to you."

Alright, I even included the little, "I'm smarter than you so check out my little zinger I have for you" ending comment. :D I got a kick out of that. But anyways, I don't know if you noticed, but I was correct on the way I judged you. And yes, it was wrong of me, but I know so many more respectable people than who you are that HAVE tattoo's.
You, obviously, don't have ANY clue what you're talking about because you, "Avoid them like the black plague." because you think, for some reason, you're better than those people. Well, you're not. And I'll also tell you, that because of that, I have no respect for you. I did, until that statement.

[MrJim]

and I avoid people with tattoos with more zeal and gusto than I do the Black Plague of Europe. Why should I associate with gutter rats when I have more friends than I can count in the most elite social circles who are famous for their contributions to the fine arts and higher education?

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Biltmore_House.html (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Biltmore_House.html)

My primary residence is much larger and grander, but for the sake of privacy I do not disclose the location of it to the general public.
http://bestsmileys.com/lol/1.gif

[fushiarose]

I have always lived in the best part of town, I have attended and graduated from only the very finest and most elite private schools and universities, I have attained to a very prestigious position in the top-rated (for academic excellence) university in the United States, and I avoid people with tattoos with more zeal and gusto than I do the Black Plague of Europe. Why should I associate with gutter rats when I have more friends than I can count in the most elite social circles who are famous for their contributions to the fine arts and higher education? For some photographs of my vacation home in Asheville, North Carolina, please visit the website at this link:

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Biltmore_House.html (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Biltmore_House.html)

My primary residence is much larger and grander, but for the sake of privacy I do not disclose the location of it to the general public.
Winston Churchill and F.D.R. both had tattoos. I would not consider them low class but that is just me. but that is just my humble peasant opinion.
I am just glad that yall rich folks talkin to us common folks. Im not worthy. I am just not worthy.

[MrJim]

To quote PrincetonGuy's sig:
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17 (NKJV)...and that includes people with tattoos too :clap:

[jsimms615]

Since the piercings thread is up and running, lets stick this one right next to it. I want to see what people think about tattoo's since I've seen what some have thought about piercings. Are tattoo's good or evil?
You are permanently scarring your body when you get a tattoo that is what they are. So, I would say Yes.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

I have always lived in the best part of town, I have attended and graduated from only the very finest and most elite private schools and universities, I have attained to a very prestigious position in the top-rated (for academic excellence) university in the United States, and I avoid people with tattoos with more zeal and gusto than I do the Black Plague of Europe. Why should I associate with gutter rats when I have more friends than I can count in the most elite social circles who are famous for their contributions to the fine arts and higher education? For some photographs of my vacation home in Asheville, North Carolina, please visit the website at this link:

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Biltmore_House.html (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Biltmore_House.html)

My primary residence is much larger and grander, but for the sake of privacy I do not disclose the location of it to the general public.
So you honestly expect us to believe your vacation home is a piece of American history?! :doh:
You're dumber than I thought! I have a book on the Biltmore ESTATE right next to me. I figured you'd at least get the title right to your own "HOUSE"! :D

Nice try though. My uncle lives about 40 minutes from the Biltmore, so I've taken a tour, and can tell EVERYBODY that it isn't your house.
And if it is, you should remember my face, because I sat and talked with the real owner for about 45 minutes.

[PrincetonGuy]

So you honestly expect us to believe your vacation home is a piece of American history?! :doh:
You're dumber than I thought! I have a book on the Biltmore ESTATE right next to me. I figured you'd at least get the title right to your own "HOUSE"! :D

Nice try though. My uncle lives about 40 minutes from the Biltmore, so I've taken a tour, and can tell EVERYBODY that it isn't your house.
And if it is, you should remember my face, because I sat and talked with the real owner for about 45 minutes.

You must have talked with Harold, one of my 143 employees that maintain the HOUSE and the rest of the ESTATE. Harold has delusions of grandeur and likes to pretend that he owns my HOUSE. The use of the word “ESTATE” sounds a bit too snobbish, and being a humble country gentleman, I simply refer to the property as my “VACATION HOME” or my “HOUSE” in Asheville.


And Harold doesn’t have any tattoos!

:)

[tturt]

Some bikers who become Christian change their previous tattoos. Plus some get tattoos to announce to the world, they're believers.

Always amused as some believers are totally against tattoos yet their ears' are pierced.

[tturt]

Lev 19
28Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
(some say this had to do with pagan worship).

Yet - (Isaiah 49.16): 'See, I have inscribed you on the palms of my hands.' (Don't know how much the wording changed through the translations).

[fushiarose]

are you a member of the Vanderbilt family?

[david01]

I enjoyed the dialogue about Biltmore. For the record, Biltmore was not constructed as a Vanderbilt summer cottage like those in Newport, Rhode Island, and was intended for year-round occupancy.

Back to the tattoo issue. I personally could care less whether another person wants to have tattoes. I don't have them or want them. Interestingly, I am a very hairy guy, so tattoos wouldn't do much for me anyhow. Recently I decided to shave the front of my torso into a large cross. During the few times I am without a shirt it can be a testimony to others. Plus, it is not permanent and the hair will go back if I let it. So, is wearing a hair cross on your chest a desecration?

[MrJim]

Recently I decided to shave the front of my torso into a large cross. During the few times I am without a shirt it can be a testimony to others. Plus, it is not permanent and the hair will go back if I let it. So, is wearing a hair cross on your chest a desecration?

no just weird~maybe you can do a fish on your back:D

[david01]

Yeah, I've thought of that, too. However, logistics prevent any serious efforts on my posterior side. LOL

[Project 86]

You must have talked with Harold, one of my 143 employees that maintain the HOUSE and the rest of the ESTATE. Harold has delusions of grandeur and likes to pretend that he owns my HOUSE. The use of the word “ESTATE” sounds a bit too snobbish, and being a humble country gentleman, I simply refer to the property as my “VACATION HOME” or my “HOUSE” in Asheville.


And Harold doesn’t have any tattoos!

:)

I too can make the Biltmore "my house" for $199 (http://www.biltmore.com/stay/) for the weekend. By the way I don't know if your making your posts in this thread tongue in cheek but you really do make yourself out as a person that can't see past the tip of his nose. As Jesus said And He sat down, called the twelve, and said to them, "If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all.". Try heeding the advice of Jesus. If you think you are just joking around there are many that don't see it as joking and take you serious. So please try being considerate of others, even when you disagree with them.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Can I get the coordinates for that verse, Project 86? That's a good one, and I'll have to remember it.
Anyways, his name wasn't Harold, it was Bill.

You were close though... NOT! :)

[Project 86]

Can I get the coordinates for that verse, Project 86? That's a good one, and I'll have to remember it.

Mark 9:35 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%209:35&version=50)

[PrincetonGuy]

Anyways, his name wasn't Harold, it was Bill.

You were close though... NOT! :)

No, it couldn’t have been Bill! I don’t have any Bills working for me because I don’t like bills; on a house the size of mine the bills keep piling up. :eek:

[MrJim]

No, it couldn’t have been Bill! I don’t have any Bills working for me because I don’t like bills; on a house the size of mine the bills keep piling up. :eek:

:D writer's strike is hittin' things pretty hard eh?

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

No, it couldn’t have been Bill! I don’t have any Bills working for me because I don’t like bills; on a house the size of mine the bills keep piling up. :eek:
Well, his name was most certainly Bill, sorry to inform you.

[fushiarose]

No, it couldn’t have been Bill! I don’t have any Bills working for me because I don’t like bills; on a house the size of mine the bills keep piling up. :eek:
that is funny.I am going to leave it at that.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

But anyways, back to the topic.
Doesn't the verse that says you can't cut your flesh also say that you can't cut your hair, or men can't trim their beards?

[shrewdsnake]

People who want tattoos are going to get them no matter what anyone says and that's ok by me. I think the problem with tattoos are not some much the marking of flesh but the personality type that gets them. Wanting to do something to stick out from others, to set themselves apart in a negative way. But to each their own.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Actually, I bet you didn't know that people withOUT tattoo's are the minority these days.

[shrewdsnake]

I really don't care if they are or not. It doesn't change the motivation for getting them. I have yet to meet someone with a tattoo who doesn't some kind of selfish or self-obsessive quality about them. They have to do something to be special and stick out. Same for people who dress provocative, piercings, outrageously dyed hair, goth type make up. Doesn't keep me from approaching them or being friends with them but I feel it reflects self esteem issues.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

I really don't care if they are or not. It doesn't change the motivation for getting them. I have yet to meet someone with a tattoo who doesn't some kind of selfish or self-obsessive quality about them. They have to do something to be special and stick out. Same for people who dress provocative, piercings, outrageously dyed hair, goth type make up. Doesn't keep me from approaching them or being friends with them but I feel it reflects self esteem issues.
So you're saying that people who get tattoo's are self-obsessive?

That's a pretty bad stereotype, if I do say so myself.

[shrewdsnake]

It's what I have experienced personally.

[PrincetonGuy]

Actually, I bet you didn't know that people withOUT tattoo's are the minority these days.

:eek:

:sick:

:cry:

As society becomes increasingly decadent, depraved, immoral, degenerate, vitiated, debauched, corrupt, dissolute, dissipated, rakish, promiscuous, libertine, rebellious, and self-indulgent we will see more and more people getting tattoos and body piercings.

“Birds of a feather flock together.” Meaning:

“People are attracted to others who are like themselves.” The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. Edited by E.D. Hirsch, Jr., Joseph F. Kett, and James Trefil. Copyright © 2002 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

[Crujir]

Hi guys :wave:

Found this handy little article on tattoos not too long ago, so I figured I'd share it here.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/watkins_tattoos/bible.html

It's not too long of a read, but it's very informative.

God bless everyone!

[holyrokker]

My answer - tattoos aren't nearly as sinful as a double bacon cheeseburger

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

:eek:

:sick:

:cry:

As society becomes increasingly decadent, depraved, immoral, degenerate, vitiated, debauched, corrupt, dissolute, dissipated, rakish, promiscuous, libertine, rebellious, and self-indulgent we will see more and more people getting tattoos and body piercings.

“Birds of a feather flock together.” Meaning:

(edit)
Good to see you again, PG!

I have a quick question though. Since you believe tattoo's and piercings are immoral, how do you feel about haircuts, trimming your beard, and the like?


Quick response to Holyrokker:

HahahahahAHHAHAHAHAhahaha!!!
Ain't that about the truth?! :D (had to use "sherman" termonology there.) :cool:

[MrJim]

My answer - tattoos aren't nearly as sinful as a double bacon cheeseburger

:confused: food vs. permanent marking on the skin...

[PETE_]

My answer - tattoos aren't nearly as sinful as a double bacon cheeseburger
I definitely thiink that many more have fallen to the temptation of bacon.

[Rhamiel]

I did not read the whole thread, so I might be repeating something already said, but Coptic Christians get a little blue or green cross tattood on their wrist, right above the vien so it can not be cut off without killing the person

[Thomas35]

Rev 19:16 Jesus will have something written on His thigh. KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

[MrJim]

I definitely thiink that many more have fallen to the temptation of bacon.

:yum: mmmmm, bacon...I would never have made a good Jew;)

[MrJim]

I did not read the whole thread, so I might be repeating something already said, but Coptic Christians get a little blue or green cross tattood on their wrist, right above the vien so it can not be cut off without killing the person

Guess they probably don't go to a biker named Snake to get that done...;)

[PrincetonGuy]

Good to see you again, PG!

I have a quick question though. Since you believe tattoo's and piercings are immoral, how do you feel about haircuts, trimming your beard, and the like?


Perhaps you have not noticed that so far in this thread I have not said anything about the Old Testament and Leviticus 19:28 in particular. The reason why I haven’t is that the entire nineteenth chapter of Leviticus poses even for the Old Testament scholar a host of difficulties, and, since I am not an Old Testament scholar, the nineteenth chapter of Leviticus is beyond my area of expertise. I might comment, however, that I believe that getting one’s hair cut and trimming one’s beard can be, in some cases, comparable to the sin of getting a tattoo. On the other hand, head and facial hair grows back and therefore does not blemish a man’s appearance for life. Consequently, if a man gets a haircut or trims his beard with the wrong motive in his heart and mind but subsequently repents of his sin, he doesn’t have to walk around the rest of is life with a bag over his head!

Crujir posted a link to an article that discusses Leviticus 19:28 and the verses preceding and following it:



Hi guys

Found this handy little article on tattoos not too long ago, so I figured I'd share it here.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/watkins_tattoos/bible.html

It's not too long of a read, but it's very informative.

God bless everyone!

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Perhaps you have not noticed that so far in this thread I have not said anything about the Old Testament and Leviticus 19:28 in particular. The reason why I haven’t is that the entire nineteenth chapter of Leviticus poses even for the Old Testament scholar a host of difficulties, and, since I am not an Old Testament scholar, the nineteenth chapter of Leviticus is beyond my area of expertise. I might comment, however, that I believe that getting one’s hair cut and trimming one’s beard can be, in some cases, comparable to the sin of getting a tattoo. On the other hand, head and facial hair grows back and therefore does not blemish a man’s appearance for life. Consequently, if a man gets a haircut or trims his beard with the wrong motive in his heart and mind but subsequently repents of his sin, he doesn’t have to walk around the rest of is life with a bag over his head!

Crujir posted a link to an article that discusses Leviticus 19:28 and the verses preceding and following it:
Quick question...

"Clearly, there it is. "Ye shall not. . .print any marks upon you. . ."

What do the dots replace?

[PETE_]

Quick question...

"Clearly, there it is. "Ye shall not. . .print any marks upon you. . ."

What do the dots replace?

27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. 28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD. Do not prostitutec (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=42968035#_ftn1) thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness. 
Le 19:27-29

These prohibitions seem to relate to pagan religious customs which should be avoided, including pagan mourning rites, cultic prostitution, and necromancy

[TwinCrier]

Hi guys :wave:

Found this handy little article on tattoos not too long ago, so I figured I'd share it here.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/watkins_tattoos/bible.html

It's not too long of a read, but it's very informative.

God bless everyone!
Yes, very informative. I especially enjoyed the part about the health issues: http://www.biblebelievers.com/watkins_tattoos/health.html
Tattoos are like graffiti for the body. No matter how pretty you try to make it look, it's still going to devalue the property, and a Christian should view their body as belonging to the Lord. Also I notice that people who seek tattoos are the ones who can least afford them. There is something so wrong about getting tattoos, lottery tickets and cigarettes when your children must get food stamps to eat. Tattoos are a regretful thing.

[PETE_]

The Sistene Chapel was not devalued by Michealangelo's graffiti.

[holyrokker]

...it's still going to devalue the property, and a Christian should view their body as belonging to the Lord.

This could be said about a variety of things, including overeating, or eating things that can harm the body.

Breathing polluted air can do that, too.

Tattoos, on the otherhand, don't damage the body.

[Sword-In-Hand]

There is something so wrong about getting tattoos, lottery tickets and cigarettes when your children must get food stamps to eat.

This, I can agree with whole heartedly. It doesn't make sense in the least.

Tattoos are a regretful thing.

This, I disagree with wholeheartedly lol. Reason 1 is because I have tattoos and I don't regret any of them. Reason 2, some of the tats have been used as witnessing opportunities, since what I do have represents my beliefs.

Being a fitness and health nut, I'm more inclined to believe that the verse speaking about how are bodies are temples unto God speaks more about what we put "in" our bodies rather than "on". I wouldn't imagine God wants us to put all these unhealthy fats and sugars in our bodies or other things that corrupt physically us from within.

In my opinion, unless genetics is a problem, an overweight person or a lazy person would have no right to claim a tattoo wrong no more than I would have the right to tell them they were fat.:)

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

The Sistene Chapel was not devalued by Michealangelo's graffiti.
Amazing point!

Why is it fine for churches, the claimed "House of God" to have artwork on the walls, fancy golden crosses in the sanctuary, but yet it's against the whole bible if a person gets a tattoo?! :confused:

[shrewdsnake]

Amazing point!

Why is it fine for churches, the claimed "House of God" to have artwork on the walls, fancy golden crosses in the sanctuary, but yet it's against the whole bible if a person gets a tattoo?! :confused:
I think you'll find most Baptist churches don't adorn their building or santuary. I have never been in one with anything more than scripture and missionary letters on the walls.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

I think you'll find most Baptist churches don't adorn their building or santuary. I have never been in one with anything more than scripture and missionary letters on the walls.
I GO to a baptist church, and there are most definitely murals and paintings on the walls. Not in the sanctuary, but in the fellowship hall and classrooms.

[shrewdsnake]

I would assume you attend a Baptist church considering your icon and your posting in the forum as often as you do. I personally have yet to be in one like that. The churches I have been too feel adorning the building is frivolous. They all look nice just are not over decorated. At this point I'm bowing out of this thread. You seem to take my comment more personally than others.

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

I would assume you attend a Baptist church considering your icon and your posting in the forum as often as you do. I personally have yet to be in one like that. The churches I have been too feel adorning the building is frivolous. They all look nice just are not over decorated. At this point I'm bowing out of this thread. You seem to take my comment more personally than others.
No need for that. I'm not taking anything seriously, I'm just trying to put my point of view out in the public.

Like, I'm not saying that ALL Baptist churches are like that, but the one's I've went to have had various paintings and what not on their walls. But in the church where my parents are members, my sister and I are the ones that painted the murals on the pastor and his wife's asking.
Sorry if I came off the wrong way. :)

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

This thread is.... DEAD!!!

*sticks his rake through this thread and kills it*

[LongAgoNThGarden]

We know the Bible tells us,

“Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you, I am the LORD.” Leviticus 19:28

And again,

What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?” 1 Corinthians 6:19

And now this news article that recently appeared online,

You probably have heard about the “Veri-Chip” and “Digital-Angel” computer implants that many are saying will become the Mark of the Beast 666 as described in Revelation chapter 13.

Well, according to this news article on the link below, they have now figured out how to implant the chip into animals using a “Tattoo.”

http://www.techweb.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=KNPD4VS1Z0LFEQSNDLOSKH0CJUNN2JVN;?articleId=196802844 (http://www.techweb.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=KNPD4VS1Z0LFEQSNDLOSKH0CJUNN2JVN;?articleId=196802844)

That doesn’t’ sound good.

No chip for this dude!

Pray about it,

Garden:crossrc:

[jaboutdoors]

Mm that is interesting. To me, tattoo is just a picure on the flesh or anything such as motorcycle/vehicle. it is an arts. As long as it dont show the death of people. I forget where in the scripture that said we should not inscribed on our flesh with death or person's death. it should be something good or beautiful. ;)

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Mm that is interesting. To me, tattoo is just a picure on the flesh or anything such as motorcycle/vehicle. it is an arts. As long as it dont show the death of people. I forget where in the scripture that said we should not inscribed on our flesh with death or person's death. it should be something good or beautiful. ;)
Agreed! :)