What is Real Love? (marriage/engagement)

[Nadiine]

In church this past Sunday, our Pastor was mentioning married couples who were in counseling and how often he heard "I just don't love him anymore".

Then he discussed how you don't just "fall in love" or "fall out of love" as if love comes and goes depending on how we feel or circumstances.

So how do you know if you truly love your spouse or someone you're going to marry if you can't test it by how long you 'stay in love' with them? How do you know it's real?:confused:

What if you really DO want a divorce becuz you married without being in genuine Love? Do you just stay in the marriage anyways becuz it's the right thing to do?
:scratch:

[HypnoToad]

So how do you know if you truly love your spouse or someone you're going to marry if you can't test it by how long you 'stay in love' with them? How do you know it's real?:confused:

I'm not sure you can ever get a "sure thing" on it, ultimately, you're taking a chance everytime. But, you can probably do a few things to at least get better chances.

First, obviously, you both need decent relationships with God.

Second, take your time. The longer your pre-marital relationship, the better you get to know each other, and the less likely you are to be surprised after being married.

Third, (probably the hardest), you have to be able to look at your relationship objectively. Don't just follow your emotions.

There's probably other stuff, but I think those are a few of the biggies.

What if you really DO want a divorce becuz you married without being in genuine Love? Do you just stay in the marriage anyways becuz it's the right thing to do?
:scratch:
Well, first you may want to try counseling. Divorce should be the very last resort. It could just be you are going through some kind of temporary low point, and if you work it out, you might find you do actually still love each other.

But if you do divorce, Scripturally, you have to consider a few things. First, God "hates" divorce. Second, until there's adultery, getting remarried would be considered adultery. (The notion of "annulment" doesn't change that - there's no Scriptural support for it.)

[Cabal]

I would agree - it's a risk, however it requires a lot of decision and forethought beforehand, not to mention a lot of prayer. I think the pre-marital relationship is probably the most important stage.

I think, however, if it's beyond all repair, then divorce is an option. However - love, especially in a long term relationship is a choice as much as anything else. If people are deciding their marriage is over because they've "lost that lovin' feelin'" then maybe still have to learn what relationships are really about.

[HypnoToad]

See, I've always been pro-divorce, if necessary - don't the verses that are normally touted as being against divorce forbid non-mutual divorce, not necessarily mutual divorce? (given the laws of the day, I can see why Jesus had a thing against them). Men could divorce on a whim, women could not.
I don't recall them differentiating between mutual and non-mutual, unless you can point out where.

Also, if you're not divorcing for adultery, and then remarried, and then presumably committed "adultery" while in the second marriage - well, wouldn't that just validate the divorce in the first place? It just seems like broken logic if you look at it that way.
It's not "broken" logic. I did say "until there's adultery" - so yes, if the divorce does not involve adultery, if one then re-marries, that one commits adultery, and the other is then freed from the commitment.

[Cabal]

I don't recall them differentiating between mutual and non-mutual, unless you can point out where.


It's not "broken" logic. I did say "until there's adultery" - so yes, if the divorce does not involve adultery, if one then re-marries, that one commits adultery, and the other is then freed from the commitment.

Sorry, I'm not meaning to duck out here - I edited because I didn't want to go off topic (sorry, Nadiine). Maybe we can discuss this another time, unless people are ok discussing it now? Just I think I've courted enough controversy on this board for one week, at least.

C

[HypnoToad]

Sorry, I'm not meaning to duck out here - I re-edited because I didn't want to go off topic (sorry, Nadiine). Maybe we can discuss this another time, unless people are ok discussing it now? Just I think I've courted enough controversy on this board for one week, at least.
It isn't really off-topic, as there are two questions in the OP - 1. How do you know if it's real love?; and 2. Should you get divorced?. Discussing what Scripture says about divorce is certainly relevant to answering #2.

[NewGuy101]

This is one issue many individuals struggle with even philosophers. Postmodern views tend to define love as some existential feeling or emotion. But is that really what it is? In scripture love is presented somewhat as a command when its refering to love in a mirrage sense.

In ephesians 5:25-28 the greek word used is agapao, which is to love dearly. We are commanded to love dearly our wife as we love own bodies. No matter how evil or cruel we are, we still love your selfs. So Paul tells us in the same way to love our signficant other.

5:25 Husbands, love your 33 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Eph&chapter=5#n33) wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her 5:26 to sanctify her by cleansing her 34 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Eph&chapter=5#n34) with the washing of the water by the word, 5:27 so that he 35 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Eph&chapter=5#n35) may present the church to himself as glorious – not having a stain or wrinkle, or any such blemish, but holy and blameless. 36 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Eph&chapter=5#n36) 5:28 In the same way 37 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Eph&chapter=5#n37) husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 5:29 For no one has ever hated his own body 38 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Eph&chapter=5#n38) but he feeds it and takes care of it, just as Christ also does the church, 5:30 for we are members of his body. 39 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Eph&chapter=5#n39)

[Nadiine]

Sorry, I'm not meaning to duck out here - I edited because I didn't want to go off topic (sorry, Nadiine). Maybe we can discuss this another time, unless people are ok discussing it now? Just I think I've courted enough controversy on this board for one week, at least.
C
Cabal I didn't read your original post to know what you thought would be off topic - this thread is basically about genuine love, so it can be pretty broad...
& I'm not against going off topic on my threads either as long as they don't completely go off in something different & STAY there. I think different topics can take us off into other directions & I'm good with that in discussion. =)
Feel free - if it's too far away from the topic we'll try to steer it back ;) :cool:

I'll try to be gentle lol :pink: :ebil:

[mont974x4]

1. real love?

nasb
1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
1Co 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
1Co 13:5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
1Co 13:6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
1Co 13:7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
1Co 13:8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
1Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
1Co 13:13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.



I don't know anyone who got married when they were in "real love". It seems we all need to learn how to make the concept a reality that pleases God.


I am sad to say, but say it honestly, that although we just hit 10 years I did not love my bride for the first few years we were married. The more I learn from His Word and the more I grow in Christ the more I learn to love my bride and recognize what a precious gift she is...even when she's driving me insane. LOL



2. No divorce unless there is immorality or an unbelieving spouse initiates it.

[dinonum]

In church this past Sunday, our Pastor was mentioning married couples who were in counseling and how often he heard "I just don't love him anymore".

Then he discussed how you don't just "fall in love" or "fall out of love" as if love comes and goes depending on how we feel or circumstances.

So how do you know if you truly love your spouse or someone you're going to marry if you can't test it by how long you 'stay in love' with them? How do you know it's real?:confused:

What if you really DO want a divorce becuz you married without being in genuine Love? Do you just stay in the marriage anyways becuz it's the right thing to do?
:scratch:
I watched this show about married couples who were like in their eighties and had been married for over fifty years. One of the things that they talked about is that there will be a lot of times in our relationships when we can't seem to find the love we once thought we had felt for our spouse. The problem is that instead of sticking it out and working through all of it, we tend to back out both easily and quickly because in our world that is how we are told to live. To just get rid of what we don't want or seem to like anymore.

I know there will come times when I can't stand my husband and him visa versa, but that doesn't mean we won't be working through our issues.

[BGMCFAR]

Love in marriage can go throgh many stages when you first meet your mate you go through that warm fussy stage then as your relationship goes through that comfortable stage and you start taking things fore granted and that is when most relationships get into trouble marriage is something you don't go intoa marriage wiuth the idea well if iut don't work will just get a divorce and if you have to sign a prenupual agreement then you already have a stike againest you because you must not planning on it working anyway and anyone who thinks marriage is 50/50 has never been married somtimes 0/100 or 100/0 and nver go to bed angry with each other sometimes you have to agree to disagree The #1 thing Make Chirst the head of your marriage Itell my wounderful wife of 23 years Il love sweetie , but I love Jesus more. and one of last stages is a caretaker stage where you take care of onother I mean why in the world wouldI want to start over I have tomuch love and work involed in this relationship and love and marriage is something you have to work at with help from above.

[Cris413]

I consider there is a VERY good reason Scripture tells us not to be unequally yoked...

My belief is...in order to have real love for each other...each must first and foremost have a real love for the Lord.

As we grow in the Spirit...as our love for the Lord is magnified...He will magnify your love for each other.

I think, often times, we can forget exactly in whom our hope and faith resides.

If we place our hope and faith in our spouses...we will be disappointed in some form or fashion at one time or another.

However...if our faith and hope resides on God...we will never be disappointed.

Our marriages MUST be devoted and handed over to God every day.

The enemy loves to disrupt and attempts to destroy the family at the foundation...and if our foundation is the ROCK...

The enemy can huff and puff all he likes....and never blow your house down.

...so the REAL love has to be for Christ Jesus first.

[BGMCFAR]

Well put I agree wholeheartedly

[Svt4Him]

I think love is what keeps two together when the feeling has gone. Then it's a choice.

As for divorce, I think it's always an option, but not always the best one.

[BGMCFAR]

Its my understanding that the divorce rate in Canada is lower there than in the US Why is that I woundard about that.

[Nadiine]

From the sermons I've heard on marriage and love, I was led to believe that the excitement and emotions of having a new relationship & all the sexual desire eventually fades away over time with familiarity.

Pretty soon, we start revealing who we really are when it goes past that dating stage when we try to show ourselves in the best light possible (that's a matter of opinion as to if someone is showing a good side of themselves tho LOL - :sorry: ).
After awhile all that infatuation fades away & our real self eventually emerges...

I think genuine love is an act - doing something other than what we might feel like doing.
Maybe staying w/ someone when all the fluttery butterflies & excitement fades away is what real love is; it's a decision - not so much feeling the emotion & being guided by that?
But if so, if love is gone, you're in for a real lonely marriage. :help: :sigh:

Your posts are interesting - I don't have time to reply to them this am., but I'm reading them,
thank you.

[Tea]

Which is why arranged marriages have a better success rate than love marriages. Sounds bizzar I know but it is true.
They usually have the same faith and view points of life, and marriage is for the forming of a home and children. When people decide that home and family and children are more important than their own wants and desires, then it can be amazing the effort that can be made to make things work.
The bible is fairly clear about the reasons for the break down of a marriage, but apart from these, it appears that family and children should be the focus point of both adults lives.
I also think it is amusing that it is the mans responsibility to make sure that his wife is happy.
Just my thoughts.
Interesting topic.
Tracey

[Nadiine]

Which is why arranged marriages have a better success rate than love marriages. Sounds bizzar I know but it is true.
They usually have the same faith and view points of life, and marriage is for the forming of a home and children. When people decide that home and family and children are more important than their own wants and desires, then it can be amazing the effort that can be made to make things work.
The bible is fairly clear about the reasons for the break down of a marriage, but apart from these, it appears that family and children should be the focus point of both adults lives.
I also think it is amusing that it is the mans responsibility to make sure that his wife is happy.
Just my thoughts.
Interesting topic.
Tracey
Wow, now that's an interesting perspective... I hadn't thought of that.
But I can't imagine how many miseries young girls & guys had when they got matched up w/ people they had no interest in.
:help: I'll have to think about that aspect.

Which leads me to automatically think this - what if they picked out somebody that the girl/guy wasn't physically attracted to? Do you just have physical intimacy w/ someone who doesn't turn you on?
*worried look*
:( :eek:

[mont974x4]

After reading some of these posts I was tempted to suggest that people waited until they grew in Christ enough to know how they are to act in marriage according to the Bible and were mature enough.


However, that's not how it's supposed to be. Through the trials of marriage men learn to lead their families and how to really love their brides and women learn how to make sure they respect their husbands.


It aint easy, that's for sure...but life isn't easy.

[Tea]

If physical looks is what we are after, then we are indeed and a selfish lot, and doomed for trouble, as, as far as I know, looks fade.
I would rather someone who loves me, cares for me, looks after me, than someone who is good looking, selfish and vain.
After having 8 children, I can truthfully say that the "old grey mare, ain't what she used to be", but my husband loves me more today than ever. So personally I think that a marriage based on looks is doomed to failure, which is why we have so many men and women, replacing their spouces for a younger model.



But I can't imagine how many miseries young girls & guys had when they got matched up w/ people they had no interest in.



Yes I agree that there is always the prospect that she could be married to someone that is horrible. Maybe that is why we should love and honour our fathers, so that he will pick someone good. lol just kidding.
When you look at 'our' choices, and the number of "wrong" partners that we pick, I think that the western world, choosed more wrong at times, and is it because of our obsession with "beauty" rather than "character".

Again just my thoughts,
Tracey

[Svt4Him]

Which is why arranged marriages have a better success rate than love marriages. Sounds bizzar I know but it is true.

You mean in societies where women have no rights the divorce rate is lower, perhaps.

[Tea]

No I am not talking about where women have no rights. That issue is a completely different issue again, and is saddly the common knee jerk reaction when the subject of arranged marriages is rasied. There are many cultures today that practice such.

Has any heard Ravi Zaccarias (sp) sermon on "I Issac take you Rebekah". Very interesting and worth listening too. He is Indian, and even though they grew up outside of India, when his brother decided it was time to marry, he asked his father to organise a bride for him. Ravi speaks with knowledge on both arranged marriages and choosing a bride yourself.
Incidently, Issac and Rebekah being a great case of an arranged marriage. I don't remember Adam and Eve having a choice either.
I'm not saying that this is the only way either, as this definately is not in our culture, but with 1 in 4 marriages breaking down, (personally know of one that lasted 2 weeks!!), we as a culture seriourly need to revise how we pick our partners.
Our marriages on earth should be the depiction of Christ's marriage to the church. We seriously need to give this some thought.
Again just my thoughts.
T

[GQ Chris]

Real, true love is a constant day to day choice. It isn't just about romantic feelings or dependant on your mate being hot or treating you right.

[Nadiine]

No I am not talking about where women have no rights. That issue is a completely different issue again, and is saddly the common knee jerk reaction when the subject of arranged marriages is rasied. There are many cultures today that practice such.

Has any heard Ravi Zaccarias (sp) sermon on "I Issac take you Rebekah". Very interesting and worth listening too. He is Indian, and even though they grew up outside of India, when his brother decided it was time to marry, he asked his father to organise a bride for him. Ravi speaks with knowledge on both arranged marriages and choosing a bride yourself.
Incidently, Issac and Rebekah being a great case of an arranged marriage. I don't remember Adam and Eve having a choice either.
I'm not saying that this is the only way either, as this definately is not in our culture, but with 1 in 4 marriages breaking down, (personally know of one that lasted 2 weeks!!), we as a culture seriourly need to revise how we pick our partners.
Our marriages on earth should be the depiction of Christ's marriage to the church. We seriously need to give this some thought.
Again just my thoughts.
T
I LOVE Ravi!!!! What a wisdom-filled man of God he is!
:swoon: *faint*

I'd agree that we need to be choosing our partners more carefully - that goes into "how do you do that"? I think we're poorly taught on application in our churches - we know doctrine, but not how to apply it into our daily lives.

[Nadiine]

Real, true love is a constant day to day choice. It isn't just about romantic feelings or dependant on your mate being hot or treating you right.
I agree that's true, but in the physical/sexual department, I think that has ALOT to do with marriage survival. Or at least happiness within it.

[GQ Chris]

I agree that's true, but in the physical/sexual department, I think that has ALOT to do with marriage survival. Or at least happiness within it.

I totally agree with you, I am not saying that a man or woman should ever let themselves go, that would definitely not be okay with me, but with Love how the world defines it is totally conditional and superficial based and dependant solely on those aspects.

Romantic love and true love as defined by the Bible is not selfish but selfless and sacrificial.

[Svt4Him]

No I am not talking about where women have no rights. That issue is a completely different issue again, and is saddly the common knee jerk reaction when the subject of arranged marriages is rasied. There are many cultures today that practice such.

Name one with a western origin.

[Nadiine]

I'm completely ignorant about arranged marriages & where they might be done... no doubt a person's religion might be a big part of that? (I thought some Muslims practiced that)?

But I think Japan used to do this & didn't they have Geisha girls that the men from arranged marriages would visit? (pardon my ignorance)

[IisJustMe]

Back to the original subject:So how do you know if you truly love your spouse or someone you're going to marry if you can't test it by how long you 'stay in love' with them? How do you know it's real?:confused: Though Paul was not talking about marriage, but the relationship of Christians to other Christians, in I Corinthians 13, it is nonetheless, out of context, an excellent measure of how our love should be.

Verses four and five are particularly condemning of virtually every couple I counsel regarding marital difficulties. Neither of the young people in a marriage today seem to understand surrendering themselves for the sake of their spouse, for the sake of their "other flesh" -- they don't even view their marriage in that context. It appears in many of them it is more a business partnership with sexual privileges than it is a biblical marriage. Sorry to be so blunt, but I calls 'em the way I sees them.

Love is patient: the Greek word makrothumeo takes the English word "patient," throws it to the ground, tramples on it and pins it in under 30 seconds. We don't know the biblical meaning of the word "patient." This Greek word would cause most young couples to go screaming down the aisle and out the back of the church if they were told they had to model this behavior: "to be of long spirit, not to lose heart; to persevere patiently and bravely in enduring misfortunes and troubles; to be patient in bearing the offenses and injuries of others; to be mild and slow in avenging; to be longsuffering, slow to anger, slow to punish." I don't know anyone but Jesus who fits that model.

And that's just the beginning. There is no need for me to write a marriage manual in reply here. Get a good concordance and research each of the descriptive words in I Corinthians 13 -- "kind," "jealous," "brag," "arrogant," "act unbecomingly," "seek its own," "take into account a wrong suffered."

That's just verses four and five. There are three more after that. Once you've reached the end of that study, you will have a rough idea how it should be.

How do you know love is real? God will tell you, but a good strong hint is that no matter what the other person does, no matter how stupid or inconsiderate they may act, you still forgive them. If not, make an appointment.

[ozell]

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Lk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

[Nadiine]

Back to the original subject:Though Paul was not talking about marriage, but the relationship of Christians to other Christians, in I Corinthians 13, it is nonetheless, out of context, an excellent measure of how our love should be.

Verses four and five are particularly condemning of virtually every couple I counsel regarding marital difficulties. Neither of the young people in a marriage today seem to understand surrendering themselves for the sake of their spouse, for the sake of their "other flesh" -- they don't even view their marriage in that context. It appears in many of them it is more a business partnership with sexual privileges than it is a biblical marriage. Sorry to be so blunt, but I calls 'em the way I sees them.

Love is patient: the Greek word makrothumeo takes the English word "patient," throws it to the ground, tramples on it and pins it in under 30 seconds. We don't know the biblical meaning of the word "patient." This Greek word would cause most young couples to go screaming down the aisle and out the back of the church if they were told they had to model this behavior: "to be of long spirit, not to lose heart; to persevere patiently and bravely in enduring misfortunes and troubles; to be patient in bearing the offenses and injuries of others; to be mild and slow in avenging; to be longsuffering, slow to anger, slow to punish." I don't know anyone but Jesus who fits that model.

And that's just the beginning. There is no need for me to write a marriage manual in reply here. Get a good concordance and research each of the descriptive words in I Corinthians 13 -- "kind," "jealous," "brag," "arrogant," "act unbecomingly," "seek its own," "take into account a wrong suffered."

That's just verses four and five. There are three more after that. Once you've reached the end of that study, you will have a rough idea how it should be.

How do you know love is real? God will tell you, but a good strong hint is that no matter what the other person does, no matter how stupid or inconsiderate they may act, you still forgive them. If not, make an appointment.
yipes --

K, here's another issue that will pertain to this.
Remember Paul that said if you can't control your lust, then MARRY - it's better to marry than burn with lust.

Is a marriage built on sexual gratification a good reason to marry?? I say NO WAY -- so it must mean that sexual sin is so extremely wrong & harming that it's worth marrying so you don't commit this sin?
(wait till the honeymoon wears off)
:holy:

[IisJustMe]

yipes -- K, here's another issue that will pertain to this. Remember Paul that said if you can't control your lust, then MARRY - it's better to marry than burn with lust. Is a marriage built on sexual gratification a good reason to marry?? I say NO WAY -- so it must mean that sexual sin is so extremely wrong & harming that it's worth marrying so you don't commit this sin? (wait till the honeymoon wears off):holy:I don't think Paul meant to marry for "sexual gratification" only. He was talking about those who were in love, were feeling the tug of sexual urge, and debating within themselves and with God over their "perceived calling" to remain celibate. I believe the urges such a person is experiencing is a confirmation that any previous thought they were to remain unmarried was likely an error on their part. Everything else -- love, commitment, sacrifice, spiritual compatibility -- was expected by Paul to be in place before giving consideration to marrying or not with sexual urges confusing the issue.