Hi everyone; has anyone here ever been an EX Jehovah's Witness?

[YeshuamySalvation]

Yehsua my Salvation > I Have many questions for Ex-Jehovah's or people who know the reasoning behind such interpretations.

I had the pleasure in discussing scripture with a Co-worker i Supervise that is a member of the Jehovah's Witness religion. Before he began preaching to me i let him know that i was Jewish; he began to tell me about Christianity and how off there interpretations of scripture are. In the conversation we were having he mentioned that Catholics worship Mary and believe that to be biblical. He also mentioned that it was clearly unlawful to worship Yeshua biblically, much-less Mary; right there then i put a stop to him and asked him to turn John 20:28 along with me! Using my Concordance so there will be no misrepresentation i answered him by telling him that according to the Greek not only was Thomas calling Yeshua God, but he was also calling him Jehovah! The Greek word [Kurios] which is the word translated as LORD in our bibles is the exact translation used in the Septuagint for God's divine name YOD-HEY-VET-HEY. Though i believe Jehovah to be a highly inaccurate translation and i gave the Witness my reasons why, i did not attack his beliefs but asked him to show me proof, knowing off the bat that he was totally wrong according to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. We focused only on Thomas and and his worship of Yeshua! He attempted to throw me off the subject by quoting John 4:23 Which says the following > But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

I immediately let him know that not only did the above scripture not answer my question, but neither is it a direct condemnation to worshiping Yeshua! He noticed that he was unsucessful in answering my question. He told me that he could not answer me as of now, but he was certainly going to come up with an answer for me son enough. It has taken him two months of study for him to come up with something. It was not until recently that he found something worth arguing. He mentioned that Thomas was not worshiping Yeshua, but rather doing something out of courtesy to a Superior"Obeisance." I asked him, so if Thomas was only being respectful and not Worshiping Yeshua then why is the Greek so direct, why does the Greek say that he not only called him his Kurios [LORD] but he also called him his Theos GOD! He explained that a god could be anyone, even kings were called gods and they were mere mortals! I told him that i was going to bring him a concordance and the Greek. He immediately said that Christians only use about six passages to prove the deity, but he mentioned that he had about 76 passages to disapprove the deity of Yehsua! He brought up John 1:1 and said that this is one of the most misunderstood passages in Christian-dome, it proves nothing. All of this we were saying by phone so it was tough for both of us to reach a correct understanding. Yet i still asked him why do you think John 1:1 does not prove the deity of Yeshua? He told me that John 1:1 says that Yeshua is a God not Jehovah the almighty! I told him that some Messianic groups have proposed this to me; fortunately i can defend myself with the Greek thus i've had no problem understanding this! I let him know that the Word [a] as in for a little god does not appear in the Greek. Actually the word [a] does not appear in any of the known copies that exist! He became very discouraged and told me he was going to do more studies!

Later on i'm going to post my questions concerning Jehovah's Witness reasoning and i would like for someone to address my questions logically, that could be from an Ex-Jehovah's Witness or a person who happens to have an incredible understanding about Jehovah's Witness and what they teach. I truly no very little of Jehovah's Witness teachings but i find them very strange and un-biblical!

[LittleLambofJesus]

He also mentioned that it was clearly unlawful to worship Yeshua biblically, much-less Mary; right there then i put a stop to him and asked him to turn John 20:28 along with me! Using my Concordance so there will be no misrepresentation i answered him by telling him that according to the Greek not only was Thomas calling Yeshua God, but he was also calling him Jehovah! The Greek word [Kurios] which is the word translated as LORD in our bibles is the exact translation used in the Septuagint for God's divine name YOD-HEY-VET-HEY.

That is interesting the definite article is used both before "Lord" and "God".

http://www.scripture4all.org/

John 20:28 kai <2532> {AND} apekriqh <611> (5662){ANSWERED} qwmaV <2381> {THOMAS} kai <2532> {AND} eipen <2036> (5627) {SAID} autw <846> {TO HIM} o <3588> {THE} kurioV <2962> {LORD} mou <3450> {ME} kai <2532> {AND} o <3588> {THE} qeoV <2316> {GOD} mou <3450> {OF ME}

Tex-Rec) John 20:28 kai apekriqh o qwmaV kai eipen autw o kurioV mou kai o qeoV mou

W-H ) John 20:28 apekriqh qwmaV kai eipen autw o kurioV mou kai o qeoV mou

Byz/Maj.) John 20:28 kai apekriqh qwmaV kai eipen autw o kurioV mou kai o qeoV mou

[HisdaughterJen]

Yes, "YeshuaMySalvation", Jehovah's Witnesses are taught very well what to believe but if you question the underlying reasons, it will be difficult for them.
GOD BLESS YOU for trying! Many people don't.

I was raised as a Witness and there are many teachings that can easily be proven incorrect with scriptures.
Here are a few:
1. Enoch (they believe he died)
2. Only 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses go to heaven
3. Do not partake of communion - only for the 144,000 - you may pass it around and look at it.
4. God's name is Jehovah is pushed to an extreme even though it's not accurate.
5. Jesus is not Divine
6. No hell as a place of punishment or torment -grave only
7. Jehovah's Witnesses are God's mouthpiece on the earth today fulfilling the "faithful and discreet slave" verse. The Governing Body hears the Holy Spirit and dispenses "food" to the members at the proper time in the form of the Watchtower, Awake, and various tracts, books, etc.
8. Anyone who questions JW beliefs is an apostate
9. JW's are not baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are baptized into the religion. Once baptized, you are an official member.

[visionary]

The first break through is not in theological discussions. The walls are up to defend against all angles. Pray for the Work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of all present before study and even before opening up the Book. If the Holy Spirit is not invited to Work on their hearts to hear the truth, receive the truth, believe the truth, and be converted by the truth, then all discussion is in vain. This is not a field to go into without the Lord leading.

[nasa1]

I am not a member here - (I found it very difficult to read your post, btw, because you wrote it in light blue.)


I am an ex-JW but I believe they have the Godhead down correctly.

No one has a monopoly on truth. We should remember that we are seeing through a glass darkly and therefore not come down on each other.


NASA

[christinepro]

I have studied with the JW's . There are some good things about them. They told me the truth about the pagan feasts. They obviously don't know anything about Hebraic roots. I told them that they were a part of Christiandom because they have there Sabbath on Sunday and I also told them that there was no J in the Hebrew alphabet.

[visionary]

I was living next door to JW's who made it a regular habit of coming and sharing their understanding of the bible and leaving their literature for us to read. We read and studied their material and have some familiarity with their convictions. They have some things right and some not... JW would crumble without the Tower. Talk theology with them is what they are prepared for. Talking about a personal relationship and praying with them is another matter all together.

[brachah]

Yes, "YeshuaMySalvation", Jehovah's Witnesses are taught very well what to believe but if you question the underlying reasons, it will be difficult for them.
GOD BLESS YOU for trying! Many people don't.

I was raised as a Witness and there are many teachings that can easily be proven incorrect with scriptures.
Here are a few:
1. Enoch (they believe he died)
2. Only 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses go to heaven
3. Do not partake of communion - only for the 144,000 - you may pass it around and look at it.
4. God's name is Jehovah is pushed to an extreme even though it's not accurate.
5. Jesus is not Divine
6. No hell as a place of punishment or torment -grave only
7. Jehovah's Witnesses are God's mouthpiece on the earth today fulfilling the "faithful and discreet slave" verse. The Governing Body hears the Holy Spirit and dispenses "food" to the members at the proper time in the form of the Watchtower, Awake, and various tracts, books, etc.
8. Anyone who questions JW beliefs is an apostate
9. JW's are not baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are baptized into the religion. Once baptized, you are an official member.

:thumbsup:

[Tangeloper]

Yehsua my Salvation > I Have many questions for Ex-Jehovah's or people who know the reasoning behind such interpretations.

I had the pleasure in discussing scripture with a Co-worker i Supervise that is a member of the Jehovah's Witness religion. Before he began preaching to me i let him know that i was Jewish; he began to tell me about Christianity and how off there interpretations of scripture are. In the conversation we were having he mentioned that Catholics worship Mary and believe that to be biblical. He also mentioned that it was clearly unlawful to worship Yeshua biblically, much-less Mary; right there then i put a stop to him and asked him to turn John 20:28 along with me! Using my Concordance so there will be no misrepresentation i answered him by telling him that according to the Greek not only was Thomas calling Yeshua God, but he was also calling him Jehovah! The Greek word [Kurios] which is the word translated as LORD in our bibles is the exact translation used in the Septuagint for God's divine name YOD-HEY-VET-HEY. Though i believe Jehovah to be a highly inaccurate translation and i gave the Witness my reasons why, i did not attack his beliefs but asked him to show me proof, knowing off the bat that he was totally wrong according to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. We focused only on Thomas and and his worship of Yeshua! He attempted to throw me off the subject by quoting John 4:23 Which says the following > But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

I immediately let him know that not only did the above scripture not answer my question, but neither is it a direct condemnation to worshiping Yeshua! He noticed that he was unsucessful in answering my question. He told me that he could not answer me as of now, but he was certainly going to come up with an answer for me son enough. It has taken him two months of study for him to come up with something. It was not until recently that he found something worth arguing. He mentioned that Thomas was not worshiping Yeshua, but rather doing something out of courtesy to a Superior"Obeisance." I asked him, so if Thomas was only being respectful and not Worshiping Yeshua then why is the Greek so direct, why does the Greek say that he not only called him his Kurios [LORD] but he also called him his Theos GOD! He explained that a god could be anyone, even kings were called gods and they were mere mortals! I told him that i was going to bring him a concordance and the Greek. He immediately said that Christians only use about six passages to prove the deity, but he mentioned that he had about 76 passages to disapprove the deity of Yehsua! He brought up John 1:1 and said that this is one of the most misunderstood passages in Christian-dome, it proves nothing. All of this we were saying by phone so it was tough for both of us to reach a correct understanding. Yet i still asked him why do you think John 1:1 does not prove the deity of Yeshua? He told me that John 1:1 says that Yeshua is a God not Jehovah the almighty! I told him that some Messianic groups have proposed this to me; fortunately i can defend myself with the Greek thus i've had no problem understanding this! I let him know that the Word [a] as in for a little god does not appear in the Greek. Actually the word [a] does not appear in any of the known copies that exist! He became very discouraged and told me he was going to do more studies!

Later on i'm going to post my questions concerning Jehovah's Witness reasoning and i would like for someone to address my questions logically, that could be from an Ex-Jehovah's Witness or a person who happens to have an incredible understanding about Jehovah's Witness and what they teach. I truly no very little of Jehovah's Witness teachings but i find them very strange and un-biblical!

Well, I can't comment on the Jehovah's Witness part, but being a former Catholic may I comment on the whole "worship Mary" part?
Catholics do not worship Mary. It's the same as it is for the saints. Catholics pray to Mary to intercede on their behalf, and hold her as an example of righteousness. Who among us could be so pure as to be the mother of G-d?
OK, that's all I'm going to comment on. Just thought I'd let you know about that if it came up again in conversation with your co-worker. :)

PS -- I just thought of another little thing... :) As far as being a girl, and growing up Catholic, Mary was sort of like a role-model for us females. She exhibited the "supporting" role in comparison to Jesus as the teacher... Kind of like the whole "help-mate" thing... Seeing as women are not allowed many roles within the church it was an important lesson in that even though we couldn't be priests or teachers, we could support those who were -- with love, compassion, and she is also an excellent role model for mothers as well... Kind of like -- you never know who your children are going to be so it is important to be the best mother you can be. So that they can grow up strong and fulfill G-d's plan for them...

I hope the above makes sense. I never got the feeling that we were worshipping Mary. Pure worship was reserved for Jesus and G-d.

[Wags]

Gotta ask - isn't prayer a form of worship? Aren't we told to only pray to God the Father (Yeshua gave that as an example - so we shouldn't be praying to him either, although we are to ask in His name.) So if we are praying to dead people to intercede for us isn' t that putting them on the same level as God? That is of course assuming that scripture is wronga bout the dead not knowing anything too.

[Lulav]

Yehsua my Salvation > I Have many questions for Ex-Jehovah's or people who know the reasoning behind such interpretations.

I had the pleasure in discussing scripture with a Co-worker i Supervise that is a member of the Jehovah's Witness religion. Before he began preaching to me i let him know that i was Jewish; he began to tell me about Christianity and how off there interpretations of scripture are. In the conversation we were having he mentioned that Catholics worship Mary and believe that to be biblical. He also mentioned that it was clearly unlawful to worship Yeshua biblically, much-less Mary; right there then i put a stop to him and asked him to turn John 20:28 along with me! Using my Concordance so there will be no misrepresentation i answered him by telling him that according to the Greek not only was Thomas calling Yeshua God, but he was also calling him Jehovah! The Greek word [Kurios] which is the word translated as LORD in our bibles is the exact translation used in the Septuagint for God's divine name YOD-HEY-VET-HEY. Though i believe Jehovah to be a highly inaccurate translation and i gave the Witness my reasons why, i did not attack his beliefs but asked him to show me proof, knowing off the bat that he was totally wrong according to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. We focused only on Thomas and and his worship of Yeshua! He attempted to throw me off the subject by quoting John 4:23 Which says the following > But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

I immediately let him know that not only did the above scripture not answer my question, but neither is it a direct condemnation to worshiping Yeshua! He noticed that he was unsucessful in answering my question. He told me that he could not answer me as of now, but he was certainly going to come up with an answer for me son enough. It has taken him two months of study for him to come up with something. It was not until recently that he found something worth arguing. He mentioned that Thomas was not worshiping Yeshua, but rather doing something out of courtesy to a Superior"Obeisance." I asked him, so if Thomas was only being respectful and not Worshiping Yeshua then why is the Greek so direct, why does the Greek say that he not only called him his Kurios [LORD] but he also called him his Theos GOD! He explained that a god could be anyone, even kings were called gods and they were mere mortals! I told him that i was going to bring him a concordance and the Greek. He immediately said that Christians only use about six passages to prove the deity, but he mentioned that he had about 76 passages to disapprove the deity of Yehsua! He brought up John 1:1 and said that this is one of the most misunderstood passages in Christian-dome, it proves nothing. All of this we were saying by phone so it was tough for both of us to reach a correct understanding. Yet i still asked him why do you think John 1:1 does not prove the deity of Yeshua? He told me that John 1:1 says that Yeshua is a God not Jehovah the almighty! I told him that some Messianic groups have proposed this to me; fortunately i can defend myself with the Greek thus i've had no problem understanding this! I let him know that the Word [a] as in for a little god does not appear in the Greek. Actually the word [a] does not appear in any of the known copies that exist! He became very discouraged and told me he was going to do more studies!

Later on i'm going to post my questions concerning Jehovah's Witness reasoning and i would like for someone to address my questions logically, that could be from an Ex-Jehovah's Witness or a person who happens to have an incredible understanding about Jehovah's Witness and what they teach. I truly no very little of Jehovah's Witness teachings but i find them very strange and un-biblical!


I asked him, so if Thomas was only being respectful and not Worshiping Yeshua then why is the Greek so direct, why does the Greek say that he not only called him his Kurios [LORD] but he also called him his Theos GOD! He explained that a god could be anyone, even kings were called gods and they were mere mortals! Did you ask him if he thought that Thomas was being sinful? If indeed Thomas was using this term of god so casually he would be breaking the second commandment, but he was not.

Also the reason that Yeshua said this:
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. was because of the person he was talking to was wondering about the proper place to worship and Yeshua is telling her that it will not be a place such as the Samaritan mountain or even Jerusalem at the temple in a purely physical way but in a spiritual way, within us as after we received the Holy Spirit after his death and resurrection, then our bodies become the temple of G-d.

[Lulav]

You may find these links helpful

http://www.freeminds.org/ how to talk to a JW
Why is Creation the best place to start in witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses? (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-jw-creationism.html)



Discussion with a Jehovah's Witness about a relationship with Jesus (http://www.carm.org/dialogues/jw_relationship.htm)


When a Jehovah's Witness
comes to your door, answer it! (http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jwdoor.htm) But don't let them in your house-- (http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jwdoor.htm)

101 Strange beliefs and practices of Jehovahs witnesses -Compiled by (http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/reasons.html) Paul & Pat Blizard (watchthetower@bigfoot.com)
Former Third Generation Jehovah's Witnesses



I find some of those things on that list that I do agree with, but certainly not any majority.

[A_Pioneer]

I have studied with the JW's . There are some good things about them. They told me the truth about the pagan feasts. They obviously don't know anything about Hebraic roots. I told them that they were a part of Christiandom because they have there Sabbath on Sunday and I also told them that there was no J in the Hebrew alphabet.
Well they are learning. last Sabbath two of them came to my door, I greated them with a "Shabbat Shalom" and informed them I was Hebrew Roots, with a slight pause one said "Good. It is good to find someone who cares about God." Asked me if I wanted any of their literature?
No thank you! my response.
They turned away and went their way.

My opinion of folks who point to Thomas to prove God is to "Strain at a gnat and swallow a camel."
There are 13 to 1 "Son of God" to the one "My God."
He was sent into the world as the "Word of God".
Just as Mordecai sent out proclamations in the Shem of the King. Yeshua came in the ha Shem of Y H V H !

My 2 cents.

Shalom

[Tangeloper]

Gotta ask - isn't prayer a form of worship? Aren't we told to only pray to God the Father (Yeshua gave that as an example - so we shouldn't be praying to him either, although we are to ask in His name.) So if we are praying to dead people to intercede for us isn' t that putting them on the same level as God? That is of course assuming that scripture is wronga bout the dead not knowing anything too.
Well, it is believed by those in the Catholic church that Mary was taken body and soul up to heaven, so technically she is not dead... Just saying...

I see prayer and worship as two different things really. Worship being giving praise and thanks for things given to us -- recognition and thanks to G-d for his creation, for our salvation, etc...

I will readily admit that I wasn't the "best" Catholic, as I disagreed with many, many of the church's teachings -- not the least of which, as I stated in my introduction in this forum, was the nagging feeling in the back of my mind that we were "missing" something -- that if Jesus followed Jewish Law, and celebrated Jewish feasts and holy days why we did not...

So, I'm probably not the best person to go to for a complete understanding or apologetics (is that the right term) of the Catholic perspective on the matter of Mary. And, if we were to go further I fear that we will completely derail this thread.

My apologies to YeshuamySalvation for bringing this up because I didn't intend to derail the thread at all.

BACK TO THE OP:
I've personally got a couple of JW's coming over to my house all the time. It seems that I'm not firm enough in my quest to get them to leave me alone... Can anyone suggest a kind way for me to turn them away. Last time they were here I suggested that their efforts would be put to better use in speaking with someone who would be more receptive to their teachings as I would never come to agree with them on many theological issues... The younger woman looked crestfallen, and the older woman whom she had brought with her said, "But we love talking to people of faith, because they are so hard to find nowadays". I'm not at a point where I feel comfortable at all arguing the finer points of the Bible and their doctrine, so I really just want them to stop bothering me. Is there a way to do that without unnecessarily hurting their feelings? I think that they truly are good people with a desire to know G-d, just that they've misunderstood some things, ya know? I wish to show them kindness, but at the same time get them to stop coming by. :)

[visionary]

My neighbours came and made their presentation and went home happy. They stayed good neighbors. Is your faith so firm that it doesn't move you to hear conflicting and confusing cowtrail doctrines through the scriptures? If so, then take them with the grain of salt and learn their weaknesses. If it bothers and disturbs you, close the door with a "NO" slammmm "thank you".

[christianmomof3]

Yes, "YeshuaMySalvation", Jehovah's Witnesses are taught very well what to believe but if you question the underlying reasons, it will be difficult for them.
GOD BLESS YOU for trying! Many people don't.

I was raised as a Witness and there are many teachings that can easily be proven incorrect with scriptures.

:hug: I am glad that you are out of that religion Jen.
Do you have any contact with your family members who are still in JW? Will they speak to you? It sounds like a frightening religion to belong to.
Well, it is believed by those in the Catholic church that Mary was taken body and soul up to heaven, so technically she is not dead... Just saying...

I see prayer and worship as two different things really. Worship being giving praise and thanks for things given to us -- recognition and thanks to G-d for his creation, for our salvation, etc...

BACK TO THE OP:
I've personally got a couple of JW's coming over to my house all the time. It seems that I'm not firm enough in my quest to get them to leave me alone... Can anyone suggest a kind way for me to turn them away. Last time they were here I suggested that their efforts would be put to better use in speaking with someone who would be more receptive to their teachings as I would never come to agree with them on many theological issues... The younger woman looked crestfallen, and the older woman whom she had brought with her said, "But we love talking to people of faith, because they are so hard to find nowadays". I'm not at a point where I feel comfortable at all arguing the finer points of the Bible and their doctrine, so I really just want them to stop bothering me. Is there a way to do that without unnecessarily hurting their feelings? I think that they truly are good people with a desire to know G-d, just that they've misunderstood some things, ya know? I wish to show them kindness, but at the same time get them to stop coming by. :)
Most Christians believe that Mary is dead and most do not share the Catholic view that dead people are not really dead but sitting around in heaven waiting to hear living people pray to them so they can pass on those prayers to God like a telephone operator or something.

As far as the JWs - I invited a nice couple in and spoke to them and gave them water and took their Watchtower tracts and then gave them one of my tracts and they never returned.

[Lulav]

BACK TO THE OP:
I've personally got a couple of JW's coming over to my house all the time. It seems that I'm not firm enough in my quest to get them to leave me alone... Can anyone suggest a kind way for me to turn them away. :)

You might want to take a bit of time and read through the links I posted, especially the ones from ex-JW's they may have some tips to share, but better yet equip you to be ready to witness to them of what you believe. :)

[Tangeloper]

You might want to take a bit of time and read through the links I posted, especially the ones from ex-JW's they may have some tips to share, but better yet equip you to be ready to witness to them of what you believe. :)
Thank you, Lulav. I will do that. :)

[Bananna]

I'd like to say... Jehovah witnesses come as varied as Catholics and protestants. Some are more educated and some are less so. Some are hard nose only the watch tower goes and some are open and scripture oriented. I don't care for labeling because it really does not tell you that much about where the idividual person is coming from and I think you need to simply spend the time getting to know them and their personal understanding of God.

The last two that came by were very open to real study and real questions and answers. I enjoyed the discussion immensely.

I've had those that came by to indoctrinate me who would not even read from the scriptures because they did not like what it said.

I kind of find that is not unique to JW. Most of them are good clean God fearing people trying to love God the best they can. I really don't think I'm any better off or closer to God than they are. I just don't agree with some of their teachings.

bananna

[Wags]

Just like the LDS missionaries that occasionally stop by. Some are open to discussion/study and some just want to deliver their spiel as fast as possible and get out of there.

[Lulav]

This is also another good site for info on the JW's, it also has a video I've seen years back on the truth about them. You can even watch it free, online!

"WITNESSES OF JEHOVAH" -The best video available on the truth about the Jehovah's Witnesses. This video was produced by a former member of 22 years. Excellently researched, this video goes behind the scenes, tracing the history of the organization and the penetrating schemes used by this cult to maintain control over the lives of its 6 million members. See Paul and Pat Blizard and other Ex-JWs give their testimonies

http://www.geocities.com/paulblizard/main2.html

Click HERE to watch it Online! (http://www.geocities.com/paulblizard/wofjehovah.html)

[Bananna]

Wouldn't it be better to consult them first hand about themselves? It only seems curtious. I don't want someone else telling people about my beliefs and making claims based on what other MJ believe. JMO
bananna

[HisdaughterJen]

:hug: I am glad that you are out of that religion Jen.
Do you have any contact with your family members who are still in JW? Will they speak to you? It sounds like a frightening religion to belong to.


Yes, all of my family (on my Dad's side) are Witnesses. I moved 2000 miles away so that I could get away from it all. I still go to weddings and funerals. When we visit, I usually see some of them. Most are friendly to me.


Most Christians believe that Mary is dead and most do not share the Catholic view that dead people are not really dead but sitting around in heaven waiting to hear living people pray to them so they can pass on those prayers to God like a telephone operator or something.

As far as the JWs - I invited a nice couple in and spoke to them and gave them water and took their Watchtower tracts and then gave them one of my tracts and they never returned.





They never returned because you gave them "apostate" literature. If they are caught with it, they could get in trouble. Strange, but true. I'm glad you talk to them...maybe you might plant a seed in a person who eventually talks to one of my family members!:thumbsup:

[brachah]

Yehsua my Salvation > I Have many questions for Ex-Jehovah's or people who know the reasoning behind such interpretations.

I had the pleasure in discussing scripture with a Co-worker i Supervise that is a member of the Jehovah's Witness religion. Before he began preaching to me i let him know that i was Jewish; he began to tell me about Christianity and how off there interpretations of scripture are. In the conversation we were having he mentioned that Catholics worship Mary and believe that to be biblical. He also mentioned that it was clearly unlawful to worship Yeshua biblically, much-less Mary; right there then i put a stop to him and asked him to turn John 20:28 along with me! Using my Concordance so there will be no misrepresentation i answered him by telling him that according to the Greek not only was Thomas calling Yeshua God, but he was also calling him Jehovah! The Greek word [Kurios] which is the word translated as LORD in our bibles is the exact translation used in the Septuagint for God's divine name YOD-HEY-VET-HEY. Though i believe Jehovah to be a highly inaccurate translation and i gave the Witness my reasons why, i did not attack his beliefs but asked him to show me proof, knowing off the bat that he was totally wrong according to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. We focused only on Thomas and and his worship of Yeshua! He attempted to throw me off the subject by quoting John 4:23 Which says the following > But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

I immediately let him know that not only did the above scripture not answer my question, but neither is it a direct condemnation to worshiping Yeshua! He noticed that he was unsucessful in answering my question. He told me that he could not answer me as of now, but he was certainly going to come up with an answer for me son enough. It has taken him two months of study for him to come up with something. It was not until recently that he found something worth arguing. He mentioned that Thomas was not worshiping Yeshua, but rather doing something out of courtesy to a Superior"Obeisance." I asked him, so if Thomas was only being respectful and not Worshiping Yeshua then why is the Greek so direct, why does the Greek say that he not only called him his Kurios [LORD] but he also called him his Theos GOD! He explained that a god could be anyone, even kings were called gods and they were mere mortals! I told him that i was going to bring him a concordance and the Greek. He immediately said that Christians only use about six passages to prove the deity, but he mentioned that he had about 76 passages to disapprove the deity of Yehsua! He brought up John 1:1 and said that this is one of the most misunderstood passages in Christian-dome, it proves nothing. All of this we were saying by phone so it was tough for both of us to reach a correct understanding. Yet i still asked him why do you think John 1:1 does not prove the deity of Yeshua? He told me that John 1:1 says that Yeshua is a God not Jehovah the almighty! I told him that some Messianic groups have proposed this to me; fortunately i can defend myself with the Greek thus i've had no problem understanding this! I let him know that the Word [a] as in for a little god does not appear in the Greek. Actually the word [a] does not appear in any of the known copies that exist! He became very discouraged and told me he was going to do more studies!

Later on i'm going to post my questions concerning Jehovah's Witness reasoning and i would like for someone to address my questions logically, that could be from an Ex-Jehovah's Witness or a person who happens to have an incredible understanding about Jehovah's Witness and what they teach. I truly no very little of Jehovah's Witness teachings but i find them very strange and un-biblical!


YeshuamySalvation , if u r really interested in JW topic, pls visit christian apologetics room. the info on JW there are very rich & interesting. hope can be some help to u. gb.