Wow, Something I overlooked.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

1 Corinthians 5

4. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5. hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6. Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7. Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Someone showed me this verse, and I thought to myself, wow; how come I never noticed that before. It sticks out like a sore thumb. :tutu:

[Cris413]

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[1] but have not love, it profits me nothing.
1Co 13:4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
1Co 13:5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
1Co 13:6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
1Co 13:7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
1Co 13:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
1Co 13:13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[1] but have not love, it profits me nothing.
1Co 13:4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
1Co 13:5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
1Co 13:6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
1Co 13:7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
1Co 13:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
1Co 13:13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. I don't think that people over look those, they just tend to forget about love and devotion to others.

[Nadiine]

1 Corinthians 5

4. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5. hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6. Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7. Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
Which festival? The Corinthians as I understand them came out of paganism - not Law....

Paul was clear that no festivals or Sabbaths or holy days or food or drink were to be judged... Nothing wrong with Festivals as long as they aren't promoting what is of Satan I'd imagine.

Colossians 2:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=58&chapter=2&verse=16&version=49&context=verse)
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Which festival? The Corinthians as I understand them came out of paganism - not Law....

Paul was clear that no festivals or Sabbaths or holy days or food or drink were to be judged... Nothing wrong with Festivals as long as they aren't promoting what is of Satan I'd imagine.

Colossians 2:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=58&chapter=2&verse=16&version=49&context=verse)
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
Im not sure I understand what your saying Nadiine. The Passover and Unleavened Bread Feasts are not of Pagan origin; however, the New Moon Sabbath Feasts are of Pagan origin. Is that what your saying, is that the New moon Sabbath Feast are Pagan?

[Nadiine]

I know my post didn't do a great job clarifying what I was putting together.
my fault.

K, I know those aren't pagan... I was using the verse in Col. to show that we aren't to judge on any festivals or parties, or what we eat or drink --
(obvious sins exempted of course).

That the Corinthians were most likely celebrating a festival that wasn't involved w/ the OT. Law but something secular.

I just wasn't sure why you found that verse significant - as to the festival? Just curious.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I know my post didn't do a great job clarifying what I was putting together.
my fault.

K, I know those aren't pagan... I was using the verse in Col. to show that we aren't to judge on any festivals or parties, or what we eat or drink --
(obvious sins exempted of course).

That the Corinthians were most likely celebrating a festival that wasn't involved w/ the OT. Law but something secular.

I just wasn't sure why you found that verse significant - as to the festival? Just curious. Paul, who was speaking to the Gentile belivers in Corinth, was saying to them to keep the Passover and Unleavened Bread Feasts. I did not know that the Christian converts were keeping those Sabbaths.

[Cris413]

I don't think that people over look those, they just tend to forget about love and devotion to others.
also often forgotten as well is:

1Co 13:4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
1Co 13:5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
1Co 13:6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;


MTAA...I think we both know and understand the possible intension of your thread...(just an observation from your numerous posts in the past)

...and as it is still currently against the forum rules for NonND to start threads...perhaps you should wait for the subforum to open before taking such liberties...(however, I could be wrong)

Also of note...it is my understanding the SoF will still apply to the subforum as well...

I personally am looking forward to being able to converse and address your concerns and those of other NonND in the subforum.

As long as it remains civil and within the scope of the SoF.

I'm not a Mod...and I don't play one on TV...

but I think it's the responsibility of everyone who participates regularly in this forum to give friendly guidence to those posting that are not ND...as well as those that do not agree with the SoF...

Peace!

[Nadiine]

Paul, who was speaking to the Gentile belivers in Corinth, was saying to them to keep the Passover and Unleavened Bread Feasts. I did not know that the Christian converts were keeping those Sabbaths.
Unfortunately, you aren't seeing the point here.

The context is the sin they're engaged in at the church. He's isn't promoting law here either. There were many who continued with law - Peter had issues with law & grace too, until God sent him visions that showed him his error.
Showing us some believers who followed some feasts, festivals or Sabbath isn't a command for us to all continue that. We also have some Christians doing the same today. It's not emphatic command to observe the law... it's why I posted the Col. verse that no one is to judge another by keeping a festival or holy day or Sabbath, or food or drink.

Paul's focus is on their sin in the church and that it must be purged and about the REASONS of the law (Christ being our Passover now - serving in newness).

So if this is an attempt to try to push legalism, it doesn't work becuz the remainder of the NT is very clear on law & grace.
If people feel convicted & led to observe the days, let them and God bless them in it when it's for the right reasons.:thumbsup:

(short commentary on these verses):
2. (7-8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr005.html#7)) We are to live a perpetual Passover feast.
Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
a. Purge out the old leaven: At the Passover feast, all leaven was to be removed from the house, and nothing with leaven in it was to be eaten for a whole week. Paul says that just as the Jews were concerned to remove all leaven from their midst, so the church should have a concern to remove such notorious, unrepentant sinners from their midst.
b. Christ, our Passover: Paul’s connection between the purity of Passover and the Christian life is not a strange stretch; Jesus is in fact our Passover Lamb, whose blood was shed that the judgment of God might pass over us. So, we are to live in the purity that Passover spoke of.
i. Our Christian lives are to be marked by the same things which characterized Passover: salvation, liberation, joy, plenty, and purity from leaven.
c. Since you truly are unleavened: Paul’s point is both clear and dramatic: live unleavened because you are unleavened. “Be what you are” is the basic message of the New Testament for Christian living.
i. “Salvation in sin is not possible, it must always be salvation from sin.” (Spurgeon)
d. Sincerity and truth: These are two strong guard-rails for the way of the Christian life.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Unfortunately, you aren't seeing the point here.

The context is the sin they're engaged in at the church. He's isn't promoting law here either. There were many who continued with law - Peter had issues with law & grace too, until God sent him visions that showed him his error.
Showing us some believers who followed some feasts, festivals or Sabbath isn't a command for us to all continue that. We also have some Christians doing the same today. It's not emphatic command to observe the law... it's why I posted the Col. verse that no one is to judge another by keeping a festival or holy day or Sabbath, or food or drink.

Paul's focus is on their sin in the church and that it must be purged and about the REASONS of the law (Christ being our Passover now - serving in newness).

So if this is an attempt to try to push legalism, it doesn't work becuz the remainder of the NT is very clear on law & grace.
If people feel convicted & led to observe the days, let them and God bless them in it when it's for the right reasons.:thumbsup:

(short commentary on these verses):
2. (7-8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr005.html#7)) We are to live a perpetual Passover feast.
Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
a. Purge out the old leaven: At the Passover feast, all leaven was to be removed from the house, and nothing with leaven in it was to be eaten for a whole week. Paul says that just as the Jews were concerned to remove all leaven from their midst, so the church should have a concern to remove such notorious, unrepentant sinners from their midst.
b. Christ, our Passover: Paul’s connection between the purity of Passover and the Christian life is not a strange stretch; Jesus is in fact our Passover Lamb, whose blood was shed that the judgment of God might pass over us. So, we are to live in the purity that Passover spoke of.
i. Our Christian lives are to be marked by the same things which characterized Passover: salvation, liberation, joy, plenty, and purity from leaven.
c. Since you truly are unleavened: Paul’s point is both clear and dramatic: live unleavened because you are unleavened. “Be what you are” is the basic message of the New Testament for Christian living.
i. “Salvation in sin is not possible, it must always be salvation from sin.” (Spurgeon)
d. Sincerity and truth: These are two strong guard-rails for the way of the Christian life. And so where Paul says that we should keep those Sabbath Feast, Christians should ignor it, because that is not what he is saying? Do you believe Christians should keep Easter instead of Passover and Unleavened Bread? If I remember correctly Easter does not come on Passover and Unleavened Bread.
1 Corinthians 5

4. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5. hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6. Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7. Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

[bill16652]

What I do know is thhat Constantine blended many of the Christian holidays and so on with pagen beliefs, I also know that the Old Testament tells us to jkeep four of the feasts forever, that is what God said. It is worded in such a way that there is no choice nor is it to ever be done away with. Also if you research it you will find that every major event happened at and around passover and the other feasts. Interesting that only the fall feasts have yet to be fulfilled.

[desmalia]

1 Corinthians 5

4. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5. hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6. Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7. Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
If this is a literal command to keep a festival, what exactly is literal "old yeast of malice and wickedness", and what exactly is "bread of sincerity and truth"?

[Nadiine]

If this is a literal command to keep a festival, what exactly is literal "old yeast of malice and wickedness", and what exactly is "bread of sincerity and truth"?
The problem here is that instead of keeping the verse within it's full and proper context (the Corinthian church participating in serious immorality and other wrongful acts during church services (needing instruction on church function), this is being promoted as law instead of the focus of the issues which is church discipline in chapter 5.

:sigh:

[IisJustMe]

8. Therefore let us keep the Festival, Its not capitalized in the NASB, and does not mean any specific festival. Therefore it could be any celebration. What it likely refers to, however, is Christ as our Passover. We are to keep Him close in thought and model of behavior. This is not a command to keep the Feasts of the Jews.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

If this is a literal command to keep a festival, what exactly is literal "old yeast of malice and wickedness", and what exactly is "bread of sincerity and truth"? Our bibles often combind parables with the literal. Yeast would be rising up to do good or evil. Bread or fruit is what we put into our souls, and so if the bread or fruit is good or evil, that is what we have in our being. Good yeast gives rise to good thoughts and deeds, and bad yeast gives rise to evil thoughts and deeds. And so what ever it is that you incorporate into your being, that is what you become.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Its not capitalized in the NASB, and does not mean any specific festival. Therefore it could be any celebration. What it likely refers to, however, is Christ as our Passover. We are to keep Him close in thought and model of behavior. This is not a command to keep the Feasts of the Jews. Huh; If it is not capitolized in the NASB it means nothing? I don't know what to say to that!

[IisJustMe]

Huh; If it is not capitolized in the NASB it means nothing? I don't know what to say to that!Maybe you should ask yourself why it is capitalized in your version? And your answer regarding the "yeast" to the previous questioner is not on point. You're right, it is a combination of parables, but the parable here is to love Christ with sincerity and truth, not some festival that has been rendered a shell of illustration by the appearance of Messiah.

[desmalia]

Our bibles often combind parables with the literal. Yeast would be rising up to do good or evil. Bread or fruit is what we put into our souls, and so if the bread or fruit is good or evil, that is what we have in our being. Good yeast gives rise to good thoughts and deeds, and bad yeast gives rise to evil thoughts and deeds. And so what ever it is that you incorporate into your being, that is what you become.OK, so along that train of thought, do you think Paul just threw in a command to obey a festival while making an entirely different point (considering the context of course)?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

OK, so along that train of thought, do you think Paul just threw in a command to obey a festival while making an entirely different point (considering the context of course)? I would not call it a commandment or suggestion from Paul. But he was talking to a Gentile group of Christians, who were keeping the Sabbath Feasts, of Passover and Unleavened Bread. I do not see him discourging the practice.

[visionary]

The idea of Jewish feasts in Gentile congregations jars the Gentile Christian sense of propriety. Why suggest such a foolish idea? Has not Christ in the New Covenant fulfilled the Mosaic Covenant? And why get involved with all that Jewish stuff? We are Christians and we have our own religious traditions. After all, Jesus is King of the Jews and we are going to be in His Kingdom.

[rmw8855]

1 corinthians 51 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
If you look at the verse in the context of the whole chapter, he isn't even talking about Passover or any of the other feasts. Paul was talking about separating yourself from wickedness, specifically fornication, & those that persist in their sin.

[desmalia]

I would not call it a commandment or suggestion from Paul. But he was talking to a Gentile group of Christians, who were keeping the Sabbath Feasts, of Passover and Unleavened Bread. I do not see him discourging the practice.
I agree with you there in that he was not discouraging them from it (and I think Nadiine kinda pointed to that as well). Frankly I'd like to see churches spending a little more time celebrating things like Passover, not because they're required or commanded, but because they do point to the coming Messiah and can enrich our understanding of Scripture. We tend to look at Passover during Easter, in a "looking back" kind of way. But it's cool to look at Christ's time on earth from the history of the OT as well in a "looking forward" from prophesy standpoint too. Not saying churches don't do this, of course. But sometimes focus on the NT can take over a little too much.

Since we're in agreement on this, I'm curious what exactly about this passage stands out to you that you hadn't seen before.

[Texasbluebonnet]

If you look at the verse in the context of the whole chapter, he isn't even talking about Passover or any of the other feasts. Paul was talking about separating yourself from wickedness, specifically fornication, & those that persist in their sin.

But...:scratch: what else was he talking about when he said:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I mean, doesn't that mean Passover? I'm just sayin'.

[bill16652]

The idea of Jewish feasts in Gentile congregations jars the Gentile Christian sense of propriety. Why suggest such a foolish idea? Has not Christ in the New Covenant fulfilled the Mosaic Covenant? And why get involved with all that Jewish stuff? We are Christians and we have our own religious traditions. After all, Jesus is King of the Jews and we are going to be in His Kingdom.The reason is that in the Law of the Old Testament God laid out that four feasts were to be kept eternally, I dont see wiggle room in that wording, we are to keep them. Eternally does not mean until Christ comes, we will be celebrating them in the millenium

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I agree with you there in that he was not discouraging them from it (and I think Nadiine kinda pointed to that as well). Frankly I'd like to see churches spending a little more time celebrating things like Passover, not because they're required or commanded, but because they do point to the coming Messiah and can enrich our understanding of Scripture. We tend to look at Passover during Easter, in a "looking back" kind of way. But it's cool to look at Christ's time on earth from the history of the OT as well in a "looking forward" from prophesy standpoint too. Not saying churches don't do this, of course. But sometimes focus on the NT can take over a little too much.

Since we're in agreement on this, I'm curious what exactly about this passage stands out to you that you hadn't seen before. Where it says "therefore let us keep the festival," I never noticed that before.1 Corinthians 5

4. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5. hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6. Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7. Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

[Texasbluebonnet]

Where it says "therefore let us keep the festival," I never noticed that before.1 Corinthians 5

4. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5. hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6. Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7. Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.


Hello :wave: ! Am I invisible, lol :P ? That's what I was wondering. I mean, if we're not supposed to celebrate Passover then what does that scripture mean? Seriously, it only seems to make sense to me...:sorry: I mean, I never really knew of that scripture myself, but reading it, it seems to say we should celebrate it, right?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Unfortunately, you aren't seeing the point here.

The context is the sin they're engaged in at the church. He's isn't promoting law here either. There were many who continued with law - Peter had issues with law & grace too, until God sent him visions that showed him his error.
Showing us some believers who followed some feasts, festivals or Sabbath isn't a command for us to all continue that. We also have some Christians doing the same today. It's not emphatic command to observe the law... it's why I posted the Col. verse that no one is to judge another by keeping a festival or holy day or Sabbath, or food or drink.

Paul's focus is on their sin in the church and that it must be purged and about the REASONS of the law (Christ being our Passover now - serving in newness).

So if this is an attempt to try to push legalism, it doesn't work becuz the remainder of the NT is very clear on law & grace.
If people feel convicted & led to observe the days, let them and God bless them in it when it's for the right reasons.:thumbsup:

(short commentary on these verses):
2. (7-8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr005.html#7)) We are to live a perpetual Passover feast.
Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
a. Purge out the old leaven: At the Passover feast, all leaven was to be removed from the house, and nothing with leaven in it was to be eaten for a whole week. Paul says that just as the Jews were concerned to remove all leaven from their midst, so the church should have a concern to remove such notorious, unrepentant sinners from their midst.
b. Christ, our Passover: Paul’s connection between the purity of Passover and the Christian life is not a strange stretch; Jesus is in fact our Passover Lamb, whose blood was shed that the judgment of God might pass over us. So, we are to live in the purity that Passover spoke of.
i. Our Christian lives are to be marked by the same things which characterized Passover: salvation, liberation, joy, plenty, and purity from leaven.
c. Since you truly are unleavened: Paul’s point is both clear and dramatic: live unleavened because you are unleavened. “Be what you are” is the basic message of the New Testament for Christian living.
i. “Salvation in sin is not possible, it must always be salvation from sin.” (Spurgeon)
d. Sincerity and truth: These are two strong guard-rails for the way of the Christian life. And so where Paul says that we should keep those Sabbath Feast, Christians should ignor it, because that is not what he is saying? Do you believe Christians should keep Easter instead of Passover and Unleavened Bread? If I remember correctly Easter does not come on Passover and Unleavened Bread.
1 Corinthians 5

4. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5. hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6. Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7. Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Hello :wave: ! Am I invisible, lol :P ? That's what I was wondering. I mean, if we're not supposed to celebrate Passover then what does that scripture mean? Seriously, it only seems to make sense to me...:sorry: I mean, I never really knew of that scripture myself, but reading it, it seems to say we should celebrate it, right? Thats what Im reading. Im waiting for Nadiine to reply, to see which she thinks is right, Easter or Passover.

[Texasbluebonnet]

Thats what Im reading. Im waiting for Nadiine to reply, to see which she thinks is right, Easter or Passover.

Lol, thanks for the reply. I mean, why else would they write "keep the Festival?" And for the record, two Bible's I've consulted have festival in capital letters.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

The idea of Jewish feasts in Gentile congregations jars the Gentile Christian sense of propriety. Why suggest such a foolish idea? Has not Christ in the New Covenant fulfilled the Mosaic Covenant? And why get involved with all that Jewish stuff? We are Christians and we have our own religious traditions. After all, Jesus is King of the Jews and we are going to be in His Kingdom. Thats a good question. Does the New Covenant exclude those Sabbath days? The Old Testament says they are to be kept forever. Are the Sabbath days part of the Mosaic law, or are they a command of God?

[Texasbluebonnet]

Thats a good question. Does the New Covenant exclude those Sabbath days? The Old Testament says they are to be kept forever. Are the Sabbath days part of the Mosaic law, or are they a command of God?

Well, :scratch: wouldn't they be a command of God? The Bible says that God never changes...so if it was good then, why not now? :scratch:

[Waddell]

The reason is that in the Law of the Old Testament God laid out that four feasts were to be kept eternally, I dont see wiggle room in that wording, we are to keep them. Eternally does not mean until Christ comes, we will be celebrating them in the millenium


Christ "is" eternity. Religion is about what you do, Christ is about what He has done.

:)

[Texasbluebonnet]

Christ "is" eternity. Religion is about what you do, Christ is about what He has done.

:)

Christ is what? :scratch: I've never heard this? Can you please explain this? I always thought He was eternal but not eternity. I mean, time doesn't exist where God is anyway.

[Waddell]

Christ is what? :scratch: I've never heard this? Can you please explain this? I always thought He was eternal but not eternity. I mean, time doesn't exist where God is anyway.

"Time" is actually the first creation of God. (in the physical sense)

Genesis1:1

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

In other words, "At the very first instant of created time, God created from nothing the spaces and the matter".

God is "eternity". Not time. :)

[RebeccatheGreat]

Its not capitalized in the NASB, and does not mean any specific festival. Therefore it could be any celebration. What it likely refers to, however, is Christ as our Passover. We are to keep Him close in thought and model of behavior. This is not a command to keep the Feasts of the Jews.

OK, so along that train of thought, do you think Paul just threw in a command to obey a festival while making an entirely different point (considering the context of course)?

If you look at the verse in the context of the whole chapter, he isn't even talking about Passover or any of the other feasts. Paul was talking about separating yourself from wickedness, specifically fornication, & those that persist in their sin.

I agree with all the above, I can't really see how it could be taken any other way considering the context in which it was given.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I agree with all the above, I can't really see how it could be taken any other way considering the context in which it was given. Then you agree with the others that this sentence does not mean what it says? "8. Therefore let us keep the Festival,..."
So then, should Christians replace Passover with Easter, since they do not fall on the same day?

[Nadiine]

Then you agree with the others that this sentence does not mean what it says? "8. Therefore let us keep the Festival,..."
So then, should Christians replace Passover with Easter, since they do not fall on the same day?
I agree with the VERSES... JUST NOT YOUR SPIN ON THEM. Take them out of context and you'll lose me every time.

The chapter is focusing on the SIN of the Corinthian church - who were obviously observing a festival (which isn't even specified.... so you shouldn't jump to automatic conclusions to fit a bias you may have) -
and Pauls' focus is on the TRUE MEANING of what it should represent & be about... as they were doing many other church functions wrongly.
They were in sin and not embracing the MEANINGS of the 'rituals' they were doing.

Communion - they were just eating & drinking for the fun of it; not taking to heart the MEANING of communion; what it represented. Same with the festival.

THAT is the focus here. Then Paul goes on to judge their immorality & teach them proper corporate church discipline. It's not a command to observe Law here by any stretch. And since no one is to JUDGE another on a festival, Paul can't say "do or don't" observe it! He is not correcting them, he's guiding them into the meanings behind their observances.

[visionary]

What festival is Paul talking about?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I agree with the VERSES... JUST NOT YOUR SPIN ON THEM. Take them out of context and you'll lose me every time.

The chapter is focusing on the SIN of the Corinthian church - who were obviously observing a festival (which isn't even specified.... so you shouldn't jump to automatic conclusions to fit a bias you may have) -
and Pauls' focus is on the TRUE MEANING of what it should represent & be about... as they were doing many other church functions wrongly.
They were in sin and not embracing the MEANINGS of the 'rituals' they were doing.

Communion - they were just eating & drinking for the fun of it; not taking to heart the MEANING of communion; what it represented. Same with the festival.

THAT is the focus here. Then Paul goes on to judge their immorality & teach them proper corporate church discipline. It's not a command to observe Law here by any stretch. And since no one is to JUDGE another on a festival, Paul can't say "do or don't" observe it! He is not correcting them, he's guiding them into the meanings behind their observances. So then, should Christians replace Passover with Easter, since they do not fall on the same day?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

What festival is Paul talking about? Passover and Unleavened Bread. 1 Corinthians 5

4. When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5. hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6. Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7. Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

[Nadiine]

So then, should Christians replace Passover with Easter, since they do not fall on the same day?
The problem is your [biased] FOCUS on the Festival/observance/ritual in the passage. THAT is the key here. Just becuz one group observed a festival, doesn't mean it's mandatory for all Christians to observe it.

CHRIST IS OUR PASSOVER LAMB. He fulfilled that feast in and of Himself. HE IS IT. We no longer observe that, becuz HE is the replacement of the old system that participated in that observance WHICH POINTED TO CHRIST. Once Christ came and became the Passover Lamb FOR US, the ritual is no longer necessary to point to Him who would come.
The law was POINTING TO CHRIST - once He came and fulfilled His mission (abiding by law), we no longer need to observe those becuz the meaning of them is now completed in CHRIST'S works.

It's like saying, "we're having this festival becuz it prophecy's Christ coming as Messiah". Well, why continue an observance pointing to Christ's coming AFTER HE CAME? It's no longer necessary - He fulfilled it.

You're focused on the RITUAL, and ignoring the CONTEXT that is the mesage of Chapter 5. SIN in the church and abuse of spiritual observances.

Paul cannot JUDGE the church for following a festival - as per Col. 2. We can't judge people either way: observing law or not observing law (PS. THAT MEANS EASTER & CHRISTMAS TOO). So Paul rightly doesn't inform them not to observe, BUT TELLS THEM THE PROPER MEANING OF IT so it isn't an empty ritual.

Them observing a festival isn't a command TO FOLLOW THIS FESTIVAL or any others for that matter. In the full context of church discipline & correction, it's irrelevant.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

The problem is your [biased] FOCUS on the Festival/observance/ritual in the passage. THAT is the key here. Just becuz one group observed a festival, doesn't mean it's mandatory for all Christians to observe it.

CHRIST IS OUR PASSOVER LAMB. He fulfilled that feast in and of Himself. HE IS IT. We no longer observe that, becuz HE is the replacement of the old system that participated in that observance WHICH POINTED TO CHRIST. Once Christ came and became the Passover Lamb FOR US, the ritual is no longer necessary to point to Him who would come.
The law was POINTING TO CHRIST - once He came and fulfilled His mission (abiding by law), we no longer need to observe those becuz the meaning of them is now completed in CHRIST'S works.

It's like saying, "we're having this festival becuz it prophecy's Christ coming as Messiah". Well, why continue an observance pointing to Christ's coming AFTER HE CAME? It's no longer necessary - He fulfilled it.

You're focused on the RITUAL, and ignoring the CONTEXT that is the mesage of Chapter 5. SIN in the church and abuse of spiritual observances.

Paul cannot JUDGE the church for following a festival - as per Col. 2. We can't judge people either way: observing law or not observing law (PS. THAT MEANS EASTER & CHRISTMAS TOO). So Paul rightly doesn't inform them not to observe, BUT TELLS THEM THE PROPER MEANING OF IT so it isn't an empty ritual.

Them observing a festival isn't a command TO FOLLOW THIS FESTIVAL or any others for that matter. In the full context of church discipline & correction, it's irrelevant. So are you saying that Jesus came to do away with the Sabbath Feast laws that God had commanded? And what is your opinion on having Easter?

[Texasbluebonnet]

So are you saying that Jesus came to do away with the Sabbath Feast laws that God had commanded? And what is your opinion on having Easter?

I know this is for Nadine but I'm going to give my 2cents. I don't like Easter. I did as a kid, but I know see the truth about it. I don't even like the word Easter. Easter has very clear pagan roots that I just can't deny or ignore. I'm sorry, but is it possible that we as Christians are being a little...stuborn in regards to Passover? I don't see anyone being the least bit open-minded and even stopping to consider the possiblity that maybe, maybe, we should celebrate it. I attended a Passover seder once. Well, actually twice and it made the Crucfixion and the Resurection make a whole lot more sense. There was a completeness to the entire story that I hadn't seen before. It was like seeing the entire puzzle put together with all of the pieces. It was just an amazing thing to be apart of. I'm not trying to say that people here are wrong or to be rude and insultig, I'm just asking for a little more to be open-minded about this. It seems so many are very quick to dismiss the whole thing without even praying about it is all I'm saying.

[Nadiine]

So are you saying that Jesus came to do away with the Sabbath Feast laws that God had commanded? And what is your opinion on having Easter?
Jesus did not come to "do away" with any OT law. The law still stands today - it's that law that God will use to judge the unsaved who rejected Christ's sacrifice over their sin.

At judgment, people are either under the law of CHRIST (liberated thru His sacrifice), or the Law. If under Christ, (ie. saved by faith in Christ as Saviour), their sins are REMOVED by His shed blood they accept.
If unsaved, they fall under the OT. LAW; they have no blood sacrifice for removal and are responsible to pay for their own sin as per the law (Lev. 17) of atonement.

Christ came to FULFILL, not ABOLISH (unfortunately, people think the law is done away with... it isn't). What He has replaced (thru fulfillment) is no longer necessary to observe becuz He fulfilled the MEANING of it in His coming & works. The feasts & festivals were also ONLY over ISRAEL who the meanings pertained to.
Look at the Sabbath purpose/meaning:
Exodus 31:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=31&verse=13&version=49&context=verse)
"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ' You shall surely observe My sabbaths;
for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

Deut. 5
13 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
14 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
15 'You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

This has Nothing to do with Gentiles who were not slaves in Egypt who God rescued from bondage. It has specific significance to ISRAEL as a people. The law was over ISRAEL as a covenant btwn God and Israel specifically. God had no covenant with Gentiles.
Israel was under the observances in that covenant which pertained to God's plan and works for them.

Romans 2:14-15 gentiles were not covenanted, but could observe laws in the Torah - namely moral laws. (ps. moral law existed PRIOR to the Torah, and moral laws are reiterated in the NT).

We worship CHRIST in newness - our "rituals" under the Grace covenant are baptism and communion. Those are what we're to be observing under Grace (after His sacrificial death & raising).

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Jesus did not come to "do away" with any OT law. The law still stands today - it's that law that God will use to judge the unsaved who rejected Christ's sacrifice over their sin.

At judgment, people are either under the law of CHRIST (liberated thru His sacrifice), or the Law. If under Christ, (ie. saved by faith in Christ as Saviour), their sins are REMOVED by His shed blood they accept.
If unsaved, they fall under the OT. LAW; they have no blood sacrifice for removal and are responsible to pay for their own sin as per the law (Lev. 17) of atonement.

Christ came to FULFILL, not ABOLISH (unfortunately, people think the law is done away with... it isn't). What He has replaced (thru fulfillment) is no longer necessary to observe becuz He fulfilled the MEANING of it in His coming & works. The feasts & festivals were also ONLY over ISRAEL who the meanings pertained to.
Look at the Sabbath purpose/meaning:
Exodus 31:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=31&verse=13&version=49&context=verse)
"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ' You shall surely observe My sabbaths;
for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

Deut. 5
13 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
14 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
15 'You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

This has Nothing to do with Gentiles who were not slaves in Egypt who God rescued from bondage. It has specific significance to ISRAEL as a people. The law was over ISRAEL as a covenant btwn God and Israel specifically. God had no covenant with Gentiles.
Israel was under the observances in that covenant which pertained to God's plan and works for them.

Romans 2:14-15 gentiles were not covenanted, but could observe laws in the Torah - namely moral laws. (ps. moral law existed PRIOR to the Torah, and moral laws are reiterated in the NT).

We worship CHRIST in newness - our "rituals" under the Grace covenant are baptism and communion. Those are what we're to be observing under Grace (after His sacrificial death & raising). What about scripture that says that we are a grafted branch, or where Paul says a Jew is one by election and not birth?

[Nadiine]

I know this is for Nadine but I'm going to give my 2cents. I don't like Easter. I did as a kid, but I know see the truth about it. I don't even like the word Easter. Easter has very clear pagan roots that I just can't deny or ignore. I'm sorry, but is it possible that we as Christians are being a little...stuborn in regards to Passover?
I agree with this... I also don't observe Easter.. we did as kids when I grew up, but now that I do know the details, I don't observe it.
However, I don't JUDGE those who do either. The issue is the meaning of it - what they do in meaning. God knows their hearts.

I don't see anyone being the least bit open-minded and even stopping to consider the possiblity that maybe, maybe, we should celebrate it.
I'm open minded about it

I attended a Passover seder once. Well, actually twice and it made the Crucfixion and the Resurection make a whole lot more sense. There was a completeness to the entire story that I hadn't seen before. It was like seeing the entire puzzle put together with all of the pieces. It was just an amazing thing to be apart of. I'm not trying to say that people here are wrong or to be rude and insultig, I'm just asking for a little more to be open-minded about this. It seems so many are very quick to dismiss the whole thing without even praying about it is all I'm saying.
There's a difference btwn people who WANT to observe OT rituals and those who PUSH OT observance as a mandatory for obedience to God.

And it's those who demand observance who cause Christians to close their minds about it - so they end up judging those who do for being legalistic.

I think it's beautiful & wonderful that people feel led to observe it - as long as the MOTIVE is correct (as God sees the heart behind all we do & say), I'm in full support of anyone observing feasts, holy days, festivals, etc.

[Texasbluebonnet]

What about scripture that says that we are a grafted branch, or where Paul says a Jew is one by election and not birth?

Hey, where is that? I'd like to look that up myself. I wasn't aware of any scripture like that.

[IisJustMe]

Michael:

Virtually every thread you start turns into an argument over the alleged requirements you say exist to continue to "keep" the Law and the Feasts. I'm tired of it. This isn't fellowship. This is pushing an agenda. Please stop. We can agree to disagree and continue to fellowship, or you can continue to post posts like this that divide the body. Admittedly we have a part in that division by playing into your hands.

I'm done. I don't agree with you, and I never will. That doesn't mean I can't fellowship with you as a brother in Christ. Its up to you.

Mike

[Texasbluebonnet]

I agree with this... I also don't observe Easter.. we did as kids when I grew up, but now that I do know the details, I don't observe it.
However, I don't JUDGE those who do either. The issue is the meaning of it - what they do in meaning. God knows their hearts.


I'm open minded about it


There's a difference btwn people who WANT to observe OT rituals and those who PUSH OT observance as a mandatory for obedience to God.

And it's those who demand observance who cause Christians to close their minds about it - so they end up judging those who do for being legalistic.

I think it's beautiful & wonderful that people feel led to observe it - as long as the MOTIVE is correct (as God sees the heart behind all we do & say), I'm in full support of anyone observing feasts, holy days, festivals, etc.

Oh. Okay. Thanks for clarifying :hug: !

[Cris413]

Several years ago...I was very blessed to be invited to attend a Messianic Seder Service...

It was one of the most deeply moving spiritual experiences of my life...

[Nadiine]

What about scripture that says that we are a grafted branch, or where Paul says a Jew is one by election and not birth?
Being grafted in doesn't make that PRIOR covenant MY covenant.
Israel didn't stop being Israel, and God isn't done with her. (Rom. 11). The problem is the replacement theology that has crept into the church where we 'become' Israel... We are NOT Israel. God has specific plans yet for Israel that do not involve the gentile churches.
We are ONE body in Christ, but they are not identical as in "the same".

Just becuz I 'become' something, doesn't mean it puts me under the Old law that pertained to THEM specifically. And again, Christ fulfilled those very things by His coming. The rituals symbolized what was to COME - now that it has come (ie. been fulfilled by Christ), why keep doing the ritual THAT POINTS TO IT OCCURRING IN THE FUTURE.

The NT gives us our rituals under GRACE covenant. Baptism & communion (remembering His sacrifice: His broken body and shed blood).
THAT is relevant until His 2nd coming. & what is very sad is that many refuse to even do those! :sigh:

[Nadiine]

Several years ago...I was very blessed to be invited to attend a Messianic Seder Service...

It was one of the most deeply moving spiritual experiences of my life...
:amen:
It is wrong if people who don't observe them "judge" those who do. Paul is clear that we dont' judge either way - whichever day one considers "holy"... a feast, Sabbath, festival, food, drink...
All we do under GRACE is in liberty in how each believer is motivated by God's Spirit.
We're all different by having different convictions, but all of the same Spirit.

[bill16652]

Christ "is" eternity. Religion is about what you do, Christ is about what He has done.

:)I agree with this but who will be the King during the millenium? Doesnt it pseem curious to you that we will keep these in the millemium biut yet it is ok not to now even though God says eternally and doesnt change?

[Nadiine]

I agree with this but who will be the King during the millenium? Doesnt it pseem curious to you that we will keep these in the millemium biut yet it is ok not to now even though God says eternally and doesnt change?
Yes it does seem curious to me - but I also can't dismiss the NT scriptures given to us that spell out what we are not under.
Acts 15 is even more "disturbing" if we ARE under these laws becuz the Holy Spirit (who impressed His will onto the Jerusalem council who met together) gave the Gentiles only 4 laws to observe for appeasement reasons - to only "burden" them w/ 4 (NONE of which were Sabbath or other laws which we today find most important).

Your point is well taken - however, we have plenty of other NT verses that spell out what Gentiles are not obligated to observe.
Since God's word doesn't contradict & self refute, these verses all have to be reconciled to form one truth.
Imho, just becuz those observances continue in the millenium, it doesn't mean Gentiles are bound to them right now.
IF you're correct & we're under them, then the NT has some extremely problematic teachings - it would cause a majority of Paul's epistles to come into question entirely. & Paul was backed by Peter (2 Pet. 3:15-16)who walked with Jesus literally.... so this is a problem.

It's my assessment that Gentiles fall solely under the GRACE covenant, (they are brought in for salvation AFTER Christ's crucifixion and ushering in of the Grace covenant, and are given Baptism & communion to observe until Christ returns again) and are not bound by the OT torah's observances which were not their covenant and which Christ fulfilled on His mission as Messiah.

[Texasbluebonnet]

Hi,

I have something else to add here. I have the Arcahealogical Bible. The one that was voted ECPA Book of the Year for 2007 and my NIV version has festival in caps and at the bottom where you find the footnotes for certain scriptures it says that Paul was referring to Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. I'm not saying that people have to observe these holidays if God does not place it on your heart to do so. I think that He would prefer we do, but not if it's something that we have to do out of obligation. I think He prefers it when our hearts want to. But I just thought this was interesting and would point it out.

[rmw8855]

If you look at the verse in the context of the whole chapter, he isn't even talking about Passover or any of the other feasts. Paul was talking about separating yourself from wickedness, specifically fornication, & those that persist in their sin.

But...:scratch: what else was he talking about when he said:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I mean, doesn't that mean Passover? I'm just sayin'.

Jesus used leaven several times in the NT as a parable to explain that a little error / sin will spread through out the entire body. I apologize for the length of the scripture quotes, but it all seemed to apply & I didn’t want to leave anything out. If you look at 1 Corinthians 5 from this viewpoint, then the leaven Paul is referring to is the wickedness he is instructing them to separate from. As far as the feast, to me he is referring to “Christ our Passover” from verse 7. If we celebrate that feast (our deliverance) all of the time, then the Spirit would lead us away from malice and wickedness and draw us to sincerity and truth.

Matthew 16:
5And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. 6Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
1 Corinthians 5:6-8
Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Galatians 5:1-18
1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 10I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. 11And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
12I would they were even cut off which trouble you. 13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Michael:

Virtually every thread you start turns into an argument over the alleged requirements you say exist to continue to "keep" the Law and the Feasts. I'm tired of it. This isn't fellowship. This is pushing an agenda. Please stop. We can agree to disagree and continue to fellowship, or you can continue to post posts like this that divide the body. Admittedly we have a part in that division by playing into your hands.

I'm done. I don't agree with you, and I never will. That doesn't mean I can't fellowship with you as a brother in Christ. Its up to you.

Mike I thought some Christians here would also find it interresting. I have only been asking questions, and not pushing anything that I believe.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Deleted.

[Texasbluebonnet]

Let me ask. Do you believe that Gentiles become Spiritual Jews? I.e., the spiritual children of Abraham as promised in the O.T.? (this is what I was taught anyway. If I'm wrong feel free to correct me)

[desmalia]

I thought some Christians here would also find it interresting. I have only been asking questions, and not pushing anything that I believe.
I noticed that. lol. I couldn't exactly figure out what was so striking to you about this verse.

I'm curious, what have you learned from the responses to your questions?

[FreeinChrist]

Paul, who was speaking to the Gentile belivers in Corinth, was saying to them to keep the Passover and Unleavened Bread Feasts. I did not know that the Christian converts were keeping those Sabbaths.

No, that is not what he is teaching at all.
NASB
1Cr 5:7 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=5&version=nas#) Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are {in fact} unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
1Cr 5:8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=5&version=nas#) Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

The unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. Paul is scolding the corinthians for not dealing with the blatant sin of a member of their congregation - one who has his father's wife, which was bad even in the nonChristian's eyes. The 'feast' they are to celebrate is not the old Passover, but Christ - our new life in Christ. He wants them to throw out the old leaven which is bad - the blatant sin - and live in sincerity and truth - TO BE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF CHRIST. (caps for emphasis).


Matthew Henry says it well here:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/comm_read.pl?book=1Cr&chapter=5&verse=8&Comm=Comm%2Fmhc%2F1Cr%2F1Cr005.html%234%26Matthew%26Henry&Select.x=31&Select.y=9


1Cr 5:7-8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr005.html#7)
Here the apostle exhorts them to purity, by purging out the old leaven. In this observe, I. The advice itself, addressed either, 1. To the church in general; and so purging out the old leaven, that they might be a new lump, refers to the putting away from themselves that wicked person, v. 13. Note, Christian churches should be pure and holy, and not bear such corrupt and scandalous members. They are to be unleavened, and should endure no such heterogeneous mixture to sour and corrupt them. Or, 2. To each particular member of the church. And so it implies that they should purge themselves from all impurity of heart and life, especially from this kind of wickedness, to which the Corinthians were addicted to a proverb. See the argument at the beginning. This old leaven was in a particular manner to be purged out, that they might become a new lump. Note, Christians should be careful to keep themselves clean, as well as purge polluted members out of their society. And they should especially avoid the sins to which they themselves were once most addicted, and the reigning vices of the places and the people where they live. They were also to purge themselves from malice and wickedness—all ill-will and mischievous subtlety. This is leaven that sours the mind to a great degree.

Paul spoke against Judaizers - it is what Galatians is all about.

[IamRedeemed]

That's right. Jesus IS the passover lamb. HE IS the bread of life,
He IS the living water. We ARE CLEANSED by HIS shed blood.
He IS the Way, the TRUTH and the LIFE. He IS the resurrection.

The Passover feast was a foreshadowing of the Christ. The coming of the Lamb of God.
Just as was the history of God providing the Ram to Abraham is a parallel example
to the substitution God would provide, except that God promised to provide ONE Lamb
IF the whole world were to repent, would be sufficient enough for all.

A perfect sacrifice, whose shed blood would be sufficient once and for all who
will receive it. He has come, there is no longer a purpose to celebrate the
foreshadowing of His coming, as if He has not yet come.

In fact, I believe it would be more than sin, but actually anti-Christ to
celebrate the "Jewish Passover", because in doing so, we would again be
celebrating as though He has not yet arrived and therefore would be in essence
denying the fact that He has already come.

The entire context is as several here have already said. "Have your celebrations
(another word for festival) but lose the sinful practices while doing so."
Celebrate that Christ has already come is all Paul is saying and act like it.
The verses following as well as the verses before it, show that sexual immorality was
the main issue Paul was dealing with. Paul says not to hang with people who
call themselves brethren but who are sexually immoral. IOW, the essence
is that Paul is saying:
"I am not telling you not to have your celebrations, I am saying go ahead
have your celebrations, just don't practice your celebrations in the way that
those who don't know Christ practice celebrations."


The problem is your [biased] FOCUS on the Festival/observance/ritual in the passage. THAT is the key here. Just becuz one group observed a festival, doesn't mean it's mandatory for all Christians to observe it.

CHRIST IS OUR PASSOVER LAMB. He fulfilled that feast in and of Himself. HE IS IT. We no longer observe that, becuz HE is the replacement of the old system that participated in that observance WHICH POINTED TO CHRIST. Once Christ came and became the Passover Lamb FOR US, the ritual is no longer necessary to point to Him who would come.
The law was POINTING TO CHRIST - once He came and fulfilled His mission (abiding by law), we no longer need to observe those becuz the meaning of them is now completed in CHRIST'S works.

It's like saying, "we're having this festival becuz it prophecy's Christ coming as Messiah". Well, why continue an observance pointing to Christ's coming AFTER HE CAME? It's no longer necessary - He fulfilled it.

You're focused on the RITUAL, and ignoring the CONTEXT that is the mesage of Chapter 5. SIN in the church and abuse of spiritual observances.

Paul cannot JUDGE the church for following a festival - as per Col. 2. We can't judge people either way: observing law or not observing law (PS. THAT MEANS EASTER & CHRISTMAS TOO). So Paul rightly doesn't inform them not to observe, BUT TELLS THEM THE PROPER MEANING OF IT so it isn't an empty ritual.

Them observing a festival isn't a command TO FOLLOW THIS FESTIVAL or any others for that matter. In the full context of church discipline & correction, it's irrelevant.

[FreeinChrist]

Hi,

I have something else to add here. I have the Arcahealogical Bible. The one that was voted ECPA Book of the Year for 2007 and my NIV version has festival in caps and at the bottom where you find the footnotes for certain scriptures it says that Paul was referring to Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

And that footnote is pure interpretation, not fact.

[IamRedeemed]

Exactly. :thumbsup:

And that footnote is pure interpretation, not fact.

[RebeccatheGreat]

That's right. Jesus IS the passover lamb. HE IS the bread of life,
He IS the living water. We ARE CLEANSED by HIS shed blood.
He IS the Way, the TRUTH and the LIFE. He IS the resurrection.

The Passover feast was a foreshadowing of the Christ. The coming of the Lamb of God.
Just as was the history of God providing the Ram to Abraham is a parallel example
to the substitution God would provide, except that God promised to provide ONE Lamb
IF the whole world were to repent, would be sufficient enough for all.

A perfect sacrifice, whose shed blood would be sufficient once and for all who
will receive it. He has come, there is no longer a purpose to celebrate the
foreshadowing of His coming, as if He has not yet come.

In fact, I believe it would be more than sin, but actually anti-Christ to
celebrate the "Jewish Passover", because in doing so, we would again be
celebrating as though He has not yet arrived and therefore would be in essence
denying the fact that He has already come.

The entire context is as several here have already said. "Have your celebrations
(another word for festival) but lose the sinful practices while doing so."
Celebrate that Christ has already come is all Paul is saying and act like it.
The verses following as well as the verses before it, show that sexual immorality was
the main issue Paul was dealing with. Paul says not to hang with people who
call themselves brethren but who are sexually immoral. IOW, the essence
is that Paul is saying:
"I am not telling you not to have your celebrations, I am saying go ahead
have your celebrations, just don't practice your celebrations in the way that
those who don't know Christ practice celebrations."


That is the best explaination.much better than I could give.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Let me ask. Do you believe that Gentiles become Spiritual Jews? I.e., the spiritual children of Abraham as promised in the O.T.? (this is what I was taught anyway. If I'm wrong feel free to correct me) I sent you a PM so no one will be offended.

[Texasbluebonnet]

And that footnote is pure interpretation, not fact.

Have you read an Archaeological Study Bible? Mine does not say it as an iterpretation but as fact. Historical fact of what exactly was being referred to. This is what mine says for verse 8:

"The "Festival" here is the Feast of Unleavened Bread which actually followed the Passover. " (see notes Matthew 26:17, & Mark 14:1)

I'm sorry, but unless you have my version of the Bible, then I feel it's pretty presumptuous to tell me what my Bible says when I have it right in front me. I mean no offense and I hope none is taken, but I know what I read.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I noticed that. lol. I couldn't exactly figure out what was so striking to you about this verse.

I'm curious, what have you learned from the responses to your questions? It seems that while some Christians are in favor of keeping that commandment of God, others are strongly opposed to it, and prefer keeping Easter. I hope everyone got something out of it, I thought it would make an interresting subject to see what different Christians thought of it. Are you an Easter keeping Christian?

[rmw8855]

It seems that while some Christians are in favor of keeping that commandment of God, others are strongly opposed to it, and prefer keeping Easter. I hope everyone got something out of it, I thought it would make an interresting subject to see what different Christians thought of it. Are you an Easter keeping Christian?

I celebrate Resurrection Sunday (I personally don't like the word Easter) but it doesn't bother me if you choose to celebrate Passover. All that is important is that we celebrate Jesus. :clap: I did enjoy the subject. Anything which requires us to think and dig into the Word to support our position is good.



The problem I have is with how you worded your statement above. You are basically saying that anyone who disagrees with you is being disobedient to God. A more polite way of wording it would have been "some Christians are in favor of honoring the Jewish holidays while others are strongly opposed to it".

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I celebrate Resurrection Sunday (I personally don't like the word Easter) but it doesn't bother me if you choose to celebrate Passover. All that is important is that we celebrate Jesus. :clap: I did enjoy the subject. Anything which requires us to think and dig into the Word to support our position is good.



The problem I have is with how you worded your statement above. You are basically saying that anyone who disagrees with you is being disobedient to God. A more polite way of wording it would have been "some Christians are in favor of honoring the Jewish holidays while others are strongly opposed to it". Im not sure, but I think there is about a weeks difference between Easter and Passover.

[IamRedeemed]

See my post above.
Christianity which is the gospel message of Christ's coming,
His crucifixion, His resurrection and His ascension,
was not administered until the Book of Acts, after the foreshadowing
that the Passover feast portrayed was fulfilled.

God bless

Edit to Add: Jesus IS the unleavened bread as well. He IS the Bread of Life,
as well as the Manna from Heaven.

Have you read an Archaeological Study Bible? Mine does not say it as an iterpretation but as fact. Historical fact of what exactly was being referred to. This is what mine says for verse 8:

"The "Festival" here is the Feast of Unleavened Bread which actually followed the Passover. " (see notes Matthew 26:17, & Mark 14:1)

I'm sorry, but unless you have my version of the Bible, then I feel it's pretty presumptuous to tell me what my Bible says when I have it right in front me. I mean no offense and I hope none is taken, but I know what I read.

[bill16652]

Fulfilled in Christ yes. But why is it and three others tto be celebrated eternally? Or did God change His mind? Or did Paul as a trained Jew just automatically know that? The bible reconciles itself with enough study so this seeming discrepancy needs an explanation. Eternally to me cannot be interpreted any way but forever.

[IamRedeemed]

The Corinthians were not Jews, neither was Paul an Apostle
called to the Jews. He was the Apostle called to the Gentiles.
Gentiles are not held to Jewish Law.
Moral Law yes, ceremonial law, no.

Even Peter said that Paul's writing were hard to understand.

In simple terms, to celebrate a future event hoped for, the coming of the Messiah,
when the event has already come to pass would be ludicrous, if we just look at it from
a common sense standpoint minus all of the "religious connotations/ tones" or "religious
practices and traditions" that we could interject.
The Feast of Unleavened Bread as well as the Passover Feast
both signified the future coming of the Messiah.



Fulfilled in Christ yes. But why is it and three others tto be celebrated eternally? Or did God change His mind? Or did Paul as a trained Jew just automatically know that? The bible reconciles itself with enough study so this seeming discrepancy needs an explanation. Eternally to me cannot be interpreted any way but forever.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

The Corinthians were not Jews, neither was Paul an Apostle
called to the Jews. He was the Apostle called to the Gentiles.
Gentiles are not held to Jewish Law.
Moral Law yes, ceremonial law, no.

Even Peter said that Paul's writing were hard to understand.

In simple terms, to celebrate a future event hoped for, the coming of the Messiah,
when the event has already come to pass would be ludicrous, if we just look at it from
a common sense standpoint minus all of the "religious connotations/ tones" or "religious
practices and traditions" that we could interject.
The Feast of Unleavened Bread as well as the Passover Feast
both signified the future coming of the Messiah.

For certain the Mosaic laws have been done away with. But what about all of the other things that God had commanded, besides the Ten Commandments?

[Nadiine]

For certain the Mosaic laws have been done away with. But what about all of the other things that God had commanded, besides the Ten Commandments?
That's the whole point of law... if you put yourself under it to observe it, you put yourself under the ENTIRE law. It isn't in pieces! It is ONE LAW consisting of some 613 laws that ALL must be observed (BY LAW).
Break one, and you're guilty of all.

Worse, I notice people like to demand that we follow the Sabbath, yet you'll notice they don't even follow it as per the written law!
They do it their own way (go to Saturday service) & relax that day. But even doing a hobby of cutting the grass, driving somewhere, cooking, going to a store, etc. is violation.
(also, the punishment of that law is mandatory - not just the law itself.). People love to put people under it to obey, yet they ignore pieces of it everywhere; including the punishment phases it includes.
(conveniently).
A man gathering sticks to make a fire to cook over had to be stoned to death for violation.

We aren't under that law, or else the punishments would have to be kept in tact; it's ALL the law as per the law's own mandate.

We seem to be masters of picking & choosing what we feel like. :scratch: :|

[IamRedeemed]

Such as?


For certain the Mosaic laws have been done away with. But what about all of the other things that God had commanded, besides the Ten Commandments?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

That's the whole point of law... if you put yourself under it to observe it, you put yourself under the ENTIRE law. It isn't in pieces! It is ONE LAW consisting of some 613 laws that ALL must be observed (BY LAW).
Break one, and you're guilty of all.

Worse, I notice people like to demand that we follow the Sabbath, yet you'll notice they don't even follow it as per the written law!
They do it their own way (go to Saturday service) & relax that day. But even doing a hobby of cutting the grass, driving somewhere, cooking, going to a store, etc. is violation.
(also, the punishment of that law is mandatory - not just the law itself.). People love to put people under it to obey, yet they ignore pieces of it everywhere; including the punishment phases it includes.
(conveniently).
A man gathering sticks to make a fire to cook over had to be stoned to death for violation.

We aren't under that law, or else the punishments would have to be kept in tact; it's ALL the law as per the law's own mandate.

We seem to be masters of picking & choosing what we feel like. :scratch: :| Mosaic laws: The ceremonial law is the law pertaining to the Levitical priesthood and the system of sacrifice for personal atonement it administered. The ceremonial law is no longer effective, because it has been abolished. I see that more studying needs to be done on my part, because everyone one is confused about what is Gods laws, and what is Moses laws.

[bill16652]

The Corinthians were not Jews, neither was Paul an Apostle
called to the Jews. He was the Apostle called to the Gentiles.
Gentiles are not held to Jewish Law.
Moral Law yes, ceremonial law, no.

Even Peter said that Paul's writing were hard to understand.

In simple terms, to celebrate a future event hoped for, the coming of the Messiah,
when the event has already come to pass would be ludicrous, if we just look at it from
a common sense standpoint minus all of the "religious connotations/ tones" or "religious
practices and traditions" that we could interject.
The Feast of Unleavened Bread as well as the Passover Feast
both signified the future coming of the Messiah.

I wouldnt call it ludicrous seeing as how they celebrate being delivered from the Egyptians and we celebrate the birth of Christ and these are all fulfilled.

[Cris413]

I see no confusion on the part of the posters who have more than adequately answered your "questions" MTAA...

[bill16652]

That's the whole point of law... if you put yourself under it to observe it, you put yourself under the ENTIRE law. It isn't in pieces! It is ONE LAW consisting of some 613 laws that ALL must be observed (BY LAW).
Break one, and you're guilty of all.

Worse, I notice people like to demand that we follow the Sabbath, yet you'll notice they don't even follow it as per the written law!
They do it their own way (go to Saturday service) & relax that day. But even doing a hobby of cutting the grass, driving somewhere, cooking, going to a store, etc. is violation.
(also, the punishment of that law is mandatory - not just the law itself.). People love to put people under it to obey, yet they ignore pieces of it everywhere; including the punishment phases it includes.
(conveniently).
A man gathering sticks to make a fire to cook over had to be stoned to death for violation.

We aren't under that law, or else the punishments would have to be kept in tact; it's ALL the law as per the law's own mandate.

We seem to be masters of picking & choosing what we feel like. :scratch: :|The original sabbeth was Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. Also Jesus said I come to fulfill the law not do away with it. We are under grace and are saved by faith and the law is within us but the ten commandments are still valid today just as they were then. We just operate with the perfect sacrifice and Gods grace and mercy.

[bill16652]

Such as?What about the New Testament? We are commanded there. How about go forth as an example and there are many many more.

[IisJustMe]

my NIV version has festival in caps and at the bottom where you find the footnotes for certain scriptures it says that Paul was referring to Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. No offense, Tex, but the footnotes aren't inspired. They're someone's opinion, and may be wrong.

[Waddell]

I agree with this but who will be the King during the millenium? Doesnt it pseem curious to you that we will keep these in the millemium biut yet it is ok not to now even though God says eternally and doesnt change?

It's a heart thing, not an obedience thing.

Heb 8:7-13
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
NKJV


True new covenant "obedience" has nothing to do with the will of man. It's a product of Love.

All the feasts are kept in each time that we worship and praise Him who sits on the Throne.

Apart from that, we are free to keep the calendar feasts or not keep them. That's a personal choice left to the individual child of God. :)

[Texasbluebonnet]

No offense, Tex, but the footnotes aren't inspired. They're someone's opinion, and may be wrong.

None taken. You're free to think that. I'm not arguing against that, but I'm also free to disagree with your point of veiw. And I respectfully do.

[Texasbluebonnet]

The people who keep the feasts and do so out of reverence and love of God do so because it's been placed on their hearts to do so. I'm not talking about those who do it because they have to, but the ones who want to because they want to please God. I'm sure that God honors this because of having pure motives. That being said, the ones who celebrate Christmas and Easter who have pure motives are also honoring God. I think He accepts all of our attempts to love and obey Him even if other people disagree with our methods. Someone should only do the feasts and all if God has called them to do so and I believe that He does call some to keep them. But, it's not for everyone. That's the way God is. He treats us all as individuals instead of like cookie cutters.

[FreeinChrist]

Have you read an Archaeological Study Bible? Mine does not say it as an iterpretation but as fact. Historical fact of what exactly was being referred to. This is what mine says for verse 8:

"The "Festival" here is the Feast of Unleavened Bread which actually followed the Passover. " (see notes Matthew 26:17, & Mark 14:1)

I'm sorry, but unless you have my version of the Bible, then I feel it's pretty presumptuous to tell me what my Bible says when I have it right in front me. I mean no offense and I hope none is taken, but I know what I read.

You clearly stated that it was the footnotes - therefore it is interpretation, not fact. The footnote is added and not part of the scripture.

LOOK at the context. The context is that Paul is scolding the Corinthian church for tolerating a sin that is so grevious, even the pagans think it is bad. He isn't telling them to fix it by celebrating the old Covenant passover, but by removing that member, criticising the sin. It purified the church and their witness to a pagan world. Go on down to verse 13: "Remove that wicked man from among yourselves."

I Corinthians 5 in no way tells us to celebrate the Jewish Passover. If some folks do it by choice, that is their business, but I think Galatians makes a strong case against making it a requirement like the Judaizers tried to do.

[Nadiine]

Originally Posted by Texasbluebonnet http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=41631953#post41631953)
my NIV version has festival in caps and at the bottom where you find the footnotes for certain scriptures it says that Paul was referring to Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

I'd also make a note that the NIV has quite a few translation "issues"... you can do a little research about the problems that version has. I quit using the NIV when I found out about it all yrs. back.

I don't think it's a real good 'study' tool compared to others. (just a sidenote, not that it's a useless version tho - just nothing I'd heavily rely on).

[FreeinChrist]

It seems that while some Christians are in favor of keeping that commandment of God, others are strongly opposed to it, and prefer keeping Easter. I hope everyone got something out of it, I thought it would make an interresting subject to see what different Christians thought of it. Are you an Easter keeping Christian?

I celebrate Easter as Resurrection Day - but not as a requirement.

Instead, we need to celebrate Christ every day. I celebreate His life and death and ressurrection (the Passover) every time I take communion, every day that I praise Him and walk with Him.

[Nadiine]

You clearly stated that it was the footnotes - therefore it is interpretation, not fact. The footnote is added and not part of the scripture.

LOOK at the context. The context is that Paul is scolding the Corinthian church for tolerating a sin that is so grevious, even the pagans think it is bad. He isn't telling them to fix it by celebrating the old Covenant passover, but by removing that member, criticising the sin. It purified the church and their witness to a pagan world. Go on down to verse 13: "Remove that wicked man from among yourselves."

I Corinthians 5 in no way tells us to celebrate the Jewish Passover. If some folks do it by choice, that is their business, but I think Galatians makes a strong case against making it a requirement like the Judaizers tried to do.
So does Acts 15 w/ the Jerusalem council. The NT is very clear on law & grace...

And yes, again, we can never take verses outside their context - the entire context of Corinthians is Paul correcting the church in their sin and misuse of observances incl. communion.
Chapter 5 is specifically church discipline, not law.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I'd also make a note that the NIV has quite a few translation "issues"... you can do a little research about the problems that version has. I quit using the NIV when I found out about it all yrs. back.

I don't think it's a real good 'study' tool compared to others. (just a sidenote, not that it's a useless version tho - just nothing I'd heavily rely on). All bibles have translation errors in them because of the men who translated them.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

No offense, Tex, but the footnotes aren't inspired. They're someone's opinion, and may be wrong. It's true that a lot of scholars voice their OPINION, but the good ones try to speak as a matter of fact. Not everything the scholars say is an OPINION.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

You clearly stated that it was the footnotes - therefore it is interpretation, not fact. The footnote is added and not part of the scripture.

LOOK at the context. The context is that Paul is scolding the Corinthian church for tolerating a sin that is so grevious, even the pagans think it is bad. He isn't telling them to fix it by celebrating the old Covenant passover, but by removing that member, criticising the sin. It purified the church and their witness to a pagan world. Go on down to verse 13: "Remove that wicked man from among yourselves."

I Corinthians 5 in no way tells us to celebrate the Jewish Passover. If some folks do it by choice, that is their business, but I think Galatians makes a strong case against making it a requirement like the Judaizers tried to do. I celebrate Easter as Resurrection Day - but not as a requirement.

Instead, we need to celebrate Christ every day. I celebreate His life and death and ressurrection (the Passover) every time I take communion, every day that I praise Him and walk with Him. I find it interresting that some Christians want to keep Easter instead of the commanded Sabbaths.

[LittleLambofJesus]

And so where Paul says that we should keep those Sabbath Feast, Christians should ignor it, because that is not what he is saying? Do you believe Christians should keep Easter instead of Passover and Unleavened Bread? If I remember correctly Easter does not come on Passover and Unleavened Bread.
That is an interesting passage though I read it as "festivalizing" as the word "keep" is not in there.

1 Corin 5:7 Purge out then the old leaven/zumhn <2219> that ye may be young lump/kneading according as ye are un-leavened/azumoi <106>, for also the passover of us was sacrificed, Christ
8 So that festivalizing/eortazwmen <1858> (5725) no in old leaven, neither in leaven of evil and of wickdeness, but in un-leavens of sincerity and truth.

[IamRedeemed]

I was requesting an actual reply with a list of examples as to what MTAA may be referring to,
not a general blanket reply and I still am requesting the same. But thank you.


What about the New Testament? We are commanded there. How about go forth as an example and there are many many more.

[IamRedeemed]

The Ten Commandments are summarized and embodied in two by Jesus in the NT.
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart mind, soul and strength and love
they neighbor as thyself. This does not mean that God does not honor time
and days we set apart for Him. But it is not a Gentile requirement to keep the
Jewish Sabbath or Jewish Holy Days.

Colossians 2:12-17

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the
faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which
was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them
openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat,
or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


The original sabbeth was Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. Also Jesus said I come to fulfill the law not do away with it. We are under grace and are saved by faith and the law is within us but the ten commandments are still valid today just as they were then. We just operate with the perfect sacrifice and Gods grace and mercy.

[IamRedeemed]

I never said it was ludicrous for the Jews who know not the Messiah.
I was talking about Christians. Isn't that what this discussion is about?
Some trying to impose Jewish tradition onto Christians?

See Colossians 2:12-17 in my post above.

I wouldnt call it ludicrous seeing as how they celebrate being delivered from the Egyptians and we celebrate the birth of Christ and these are all fulfilled.

[Nadiine]

All bibles have translation errors in them because of the men who translated them.
Yes they all do to some degree - but some more than others

[IisJustMe]

I find it interresting that some Christians want to keep Easter instead of the commanded Sabbaths. The Sabbaths aren't commanded of us, first of all. Secondly, It's not "Easter" but "Resurrection Sunday," at least that's the point. We don't celebrate Passover. We celebrate the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of our Savior and Lord who fulfills the the Law, rendering its ceremonial aspects moot, because He is the One to whom those ceremonies point, and rendering the moral and civil Law our measuring rod.

I find it interesting that someone who purports to know Jesus as Savior and Lord doesn't seem to understand that believers "keeping" the Law was something Paul railed against in at least three of his epistles.

[IamRedeemed]

:thumbsup::amen::amen::amen:

I also do not call it by the name "easter" that is a form of the
pagan goddess Oestra's name who is the pagan's goddess of
fertility, thus the rabbits and eggs. :doh:

I call the celebration of Christ's death, burial and resurrection,
"Resurrection Sunday" also!

God bless


The Sabbaths aren't commanded of us, first of all. Secondly, It's not "Easter" but "Resurrection Sunday," at least that's the point. We don't celebrate Passover. We celebrate the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of our Savior and Lord who fulfills the the Law, rendering its ceremonial aspects moot, because He is the One to whom those ceremonies point, and rendering the moral and civil Law our measuring rod.

I find it interesting that someone who purports to know Jesus as Savior and Lord doesn't seem to understand that believers "keeping" the Law was something Paul railed against in at least three of his epistles.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I would like to thank everyone who has made a post here. Feel free to continue the discussion without me. Im in the proccess of moving. So bye for now.

[IamRedeemed]

Happy Moving! :wave:


I would like to thank everyone who has made a post here. Feel free to continue the discussion without me. Im in the proccess of moving. So bye for now.

[IisJustMe]

I would like to thank everyone who has made a post here. Feel free to continue the discussion without me. Im in the proccess of moving. So bye for now.Hope its not in a snow or ice storm.

[fritz300]

The Sabbaths aren't commanded of us, first of all.

Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of YHVH your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days YHVH made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore YHVH blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. "

Exo 31:13 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am YHVH who sanctifies you.

Deu 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and YHVH your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore YHVH your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil."

Isa 58:13 "If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of YHVH honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words,
Isa 58:14 Then you shall delight yourself in YHVH; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of YHVH has spoken."


I find it interesting that someone who purports to know Jesus as Savior and Lord doesn't seem to understand that believers "keeping" the Law was something Paul railed against in at least three of his epistles.

Paul never taught against keeping the Law!

He even performed a Nazirite vow (which involved the physical offering of animals, after the death of Yeshua) JUST to prove that he upheld the Law and payed for four others to do so according to Acts 21.


Most of the Western Greek/Gentile mindset church has fell victim to misinterpretation of Paul on a very large and monumental scale...


2Pe 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.


The truth is we are supposed to be keeping the commands, and the Sabbath.

I'm sorry that most of the church has gotten this wrong and has taught men lies since Constantine came and mixed Pagan worship tradition and culture with true worship, but I petition to you that YHVH's Word is eternal and if He says something is a perpetual commandment forever and ever throughout all your generations, then He means it is a perpetual commandment forever and ever...


Perpetual commandment forever and ever throughout all your generations does not mean "till Jesus dies on the cross".


The God of Israel is the same yesterday, today and forever... and the Sabbath is STILL His Holy Day whether we keep it and observe it or chose not to...

[IisJustMe]

Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of YHVH your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days YHVH made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore YHVH blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. "

Exo 31:13 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am YHVH who sanctifies you.Though you can claim that Jesus didn't render these moot, except as a measuring rod for Christians, you would be wrong in doing so. That's all I need to say. Thanks for you input.

[stone]

Closing for staff review