The Orthodox Monk Who Predicted 9/11

[SpyridonOCA]

Elder Anthony of Holy Trinity-St. Sergius Lavra is the Russian Orthodox monk who prophecized the attacks of September 11, 2001. I first learned this from speaking with a Russian Orthodox monk who lives in the United States.


Excerpt from "Spiritual Conversations and Instructions of Elder Anthony"
Part 2, pages 112-113 ...Spiritual Conversations...


All of life in the last times will be one continuous sorrow and pain. And here it is not so important who is guilty of this or that, not at all. Sinful life itself--is already a catastrophe. The more "civilized" the place of habitation is, the more technical and apocalyptic natural disasters there will be. I saw contemporary Sodom--New York, in flames, the furnace of hell, ruins and countless sacrifices. But are they sacrifices?! Sacrifices are always pure, but these that perish are defiled, not having preserved their purity, having rejected the Truth and thrown themselves into the abyss of mankind, that is, demonic superstition. In trying to create a tower like the tower of Babylon for this enlightened government without God and His law, they will be its first sacrifices. The sacrifices of their own rulers even. As one of the steps toward a world-wide government, they will offer at the altar of Baal the lives of their fellow citizens.These rulers, people who believe in a judaism which has been reborn into satanism, in expectation of the false messiah, the antichrist, will do everything to bring about wars and tragedies of world-wide significance.


But the fire and destruction from this is not the end, but only the beginning. For the initial fire and destruction of the new Babylonian tower is from an explosion*,-- by the hand of man, although allowed by God. This evil deed, as an especially grave sin, will summon natural disasters. An explosion in the sea will cause a huge wave which will engulf the New Testament Sodom [ N.Y.]. Gomorrah [L.A.] will also soon suffer destruction from terrible storms, from water." [initially recorded in the 1970's or 80's]

* Refers to the fact that the World Trade Center was brought down by explosives. For an analysis and explanation, see videos and links below...
http://www.orthodoxrevival.com/index/911Prophecy.html

[repentant]

Geronda Ephraim predicted 9/11....it wasn't as deep as above, but none the less..

[SpyridonOCA]

Consider the implications.

[repentant]

like?

[SpyridonOCA]

I've heard many conspiracy theories that our government was complacent with the 9/11 attacks, but an Orthodox monk predicting it is much different.

[repentant]

Yea but I don't see the connection between conspiracies of an inside job, and Monks predicting it...maybe I am missing something..

[SpyridonOCA]

According to the monk I spoke to, Elder Anthony predicted that the government would have foreknowledge of the attacks and use it for political reasons.

[repentant]

Oh ok the part about offering up fellow citizens...gotcha...slow today I guess..


Geronda Ephraim just saw a picture of the WTC and said, "one day those buildings will fall like paper"...

[SpyridonOCA]

This war on terrorism is bogus

The 9/11 attacks gave the US an ideal pretext to use force to secure its global domination

Michael Meacher
Saturday September 6, 2003
The Guardian
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1036687,00.html

[Greg the byzantine]

Oh ok the part about offering up fellow citizens...gotcha...slow today I guess..


Geronda Ephraim just saw a picture of the WTC and said, "one day those buildings will fall like paper"...

Let's be honest now, that's a pretty good prediction for everything. One day everything will "fall down like paper", not many monuments pass the test of time, and even those that are still around will one day fall into ruin. Couldn't he possibly be referring to the ephemeral nature of material things? and it just so happened that he was referring to the Towers at that moment.

[Shubunkin]

If 9/11 was planned for our government to take over the world, it rather failed miserably.

[SpyridonOCA]

If 9/11 was planned for our government to take over the world, it rather failed miserably.

In every war, you have to ask, who is profiting the most? Regardless of whether the Iraq war is going well now, it's made Bush's friends billions of dollars in war profits, and permanant military bases are currently being built to support our dominance in the region. In the real world, those who've planned world domination have always failed. Just because it fails, however, that doesn't mean it wasn't at least planned.

[Dorothea]

I don't believe our government planned 9/11. And I wouldn't believe it, even if they had Clinton or a liberal president in office at the time. Nope.

[SpyridonOCA]

I don't believe our government planned 9/11.

I don't believe that our government planned 9/11, but that it willingly and knowingly allowed it to happen, just as FDR allowed Pearl Harbor to happen.
What do you have to say concerning the prophecy of Elder Anthony?

[Dorothea]

I don't believe that our government planned 9/11, but that it willingly and knowingly allowed it to happen, just as FDR allowed Pearl Harbor to happen.
What do you have to say concerning the prophecy of Elder Anthony?
Do you mean being lax on the security and intelligence of the reports and such before the incident came?

As far as what Elder Anthony said, I find it interesting, but I'm not sure what to make of it. Have there been other times in American history when things like this have happened? You say Pearl Harbor. I really don't know.

[SpyridonOCA]

Do you mean being lax on the security and intelligence of the reports and such before the incident came?

Purposely lax, yes.

This is just one piece of evidence:

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
Allegations Brought to Inspectors General

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Page A03
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080101300.html


If you look at the Project for a New American Century, whose membership was composed of Bush administration officials, and how it called for a "new Pearl Harbor" to ensure a massive military campaign, it's rather easy to connect the dots. PNAC isn't a conspiracy theory. Their documents are publicly available:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

[Shubunkin]

In every war, you have to ask, who is profiting the most? Regardless of whether the Iraq war is going well now, it's made Bush's friends billions of dollars in war profits, and permanant military bases are currently being built to support our dominance in the region. In the real world, those who've planned world domination have always failed. Just because it fails, however, that doesn't mean it wasn't at least planned.
Oh I agree with you there. ;)

[Dorothea]

Purposely lax, yes.

This is just one piece of evidence:

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
Allegations Brought to Inspectors General

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Page A03
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080101300.html


If you look at the Project for a New American Century, whose membership was composed of Bush administration officials, and how it called for a "new Pearl Harbor" to ensure a massive military campaign, it's rather easy to connect the dots. PNAC isn't a conspiracy theory. Their documents are publicly available:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
I don't disagree with you that our government was lax, and part of the reason it was lax and such, is because the two branches of intelligence: CIA and FBI did not share information and let each other know anything they were working on...some not until the last minute. You might enjoy reading the book called: 1000 Years of Revenge by Peter lance. It goes through the timeline of the start of Al Quaeda, up to 9/11. It shows all the blunders the FBI made in many of the incidences, such as the first WTC bombing. With this knowledge, our "lax" and screwed up and disorganized intelligence community started way before 9/11.

http://www.amazon.com/1000-Years-Revenge-International-FBI/dp/006054354X

A conversation with Mr. Lance on his book:
http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/oct03/lance4.htm

[Xpycoctomos]

Let's be honest now, that's a pretty good prediction for everything. One day everything will "fall down like paper", not many monuments pass the test of time, and even those that are still around will one day fall into ruin. Couldn't he possibly be referring to the ephemeral nature of material things? and it just so happened that he was referring to the Towers at that moment.
I agree.

[Shubunkin]

Yep, the whole world is pretty much doomed. I know, because I have read Revelation. :)

[SpyridonOCA]

I don't disagree with you that our government was lax, and part of the reason it was lax and such, is because the two branches of intelligence: CIA and FBI did not share information and let each other know anything they were working on...some not until the last minute. You might enjoy reading the book called: 1000 Years of Revenge by Peter lance. It goes through the timeline of the start of Al Quaeda, up to 9/11. It shows all the blunders the FBI made in many of the incidences, such as the first WTC bombing. With this knowledge, our "lax" and screwed up and disorganized intelligence community started way before 9/11.

The knowledge of an immediate attack went all the way up to the President himself. They may not have known the exact day or location, but they could have at least done something, but instead did nothing. And if the Bush administration was complacent with al Qaeda, so was the Clinton administration. Remember, bin Ladin was an operative of our own government during the Soviet-Afghan war.


First, it is clear the US authorities did little or nothing to pre-empt the events of 9/11. It is known that at least 11 countries provided advance warning to the US of the 9/11 attacks. Two senior Mossad experts were sent to Washington in August 2001 to alert the CIA and FBI to a cell of 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation (Daily Telegraph, September 16 2001). The list they provided included the names of four of the 9/11 hijackers, none of whom was arrested.

It had been known as early as 1996 that there were plans to hit Washington targets with aeroplanes. Then in 1999 a US national intelligence council report noted that "al-Qaida suicide bombers could crash-land an aircraft packed with high explosives into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the CIA, or the White House".

Fifteen of the 9/11 hijackers obtained their visas in Saudi Arabia. Michael Springman, the former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah, has stated that since 1987 the CIA had been illicitly issuing visas to unqualified applicants from the Middle East and bringing them to the US for training in terrorism for the Afghan war in collaboration with Bin Laden (BBC, November 6 2001). It seems this operation continued after the Afghan war for other purposes. It is also reported that five of the hijackers received training at secure US military installations in the 1990s (Newsweek, September 15 2001).

Instructive leads prior to 9/11 were not followed up. French Moroccan flight student Zacarias Moussaoui (now thought to be the 20th hijacker) was arrested in August 2001 after an instructor reported he showed a suspicious interest in learning how to steer large airliners. When US agents learned from French intelligence he had radical Islamist ties, they sought a warrant to search his computer, which contained clues to the September 11 mission (Times, November 3 2001). But they were turned down by the FBI. One agent wrote, a month before 9/11, that Moussaoui might be planning to crash into the Twin Towers (Newsweek, May 20 2002).

All of this makes it all the more astonishing - on the war on terrorism perspective - that there was such slow reaction on September 11 itself. The first hijacking was suspected at not later than 8.20am, and the last hijacked aircraft crashed in Pennsylvania at 10.06am. Not a single fighter plane was scrambled to investigate from the US Andrews airforce base, just 10 miles from Washington DC, until after the third plane had hit the Pentagon at 9.38 am. Why not? There were standard FAA intercept procedures for hijacked aircraft before 9/11. Between September 2000 and June 2001 the US military launched fighter aircraft on 67 occasions to chase suspicious aircraft (AP, August 13 2002). It is a US legal requirement that once an aircraft has moved significantly off its flight plan, fighter planes are sent up to investigate.

Was this inaction simply the result of key people disregarding, or being ignorant of, the evidence? Or could US air security operations have been deliberately stood down on September 11? If so, why, and on whose authority? The former US federal crimes prosecutor, John Loftus, has said: "The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defence of incompetence."

Nor is the US response after 9/11 any better. No serious attempt has ever been made to catch Bin Laden. In late September and early October 2001, leaders of Pakistan's two Islamist parties negotiated Bin Laden's extradition to Pakistan to stand trial for 9/11. However, a US official said, significantly, that "casting our objectives too narrowly" risked "a premature collapse of the international effort if by some lucky chance Mr Bin Laden was captured". The US chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Myers, went so far as to say that "the goal has never been to get Bin Laden" (AP, April 5 2002). The whistleblowing FBI agent Robert Wright told ABC News (December 19 2002) that FBI headquarters wanted no arrests. And in November 2001 the US airforce complained it had had al-Qaida and Taliban leaders in its sights as many as 10 times over the previous six weeks, but had been unable to attack because they did not receive permission quickly enough (Time Magazine, May 13 2002). None of this assembled evidence, all of which comes from sources already in the public domain, is compatible with the idea of a real, determined war on terrorism.
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1036687,00.html

[SpyridonOCA]

Yep, the whole world is pretty much doomed. I know, because I have read Revelation. :)

If we can trust Revelation, we know that our own government will betray us.

[Dorothea]

The knowledge of an immediate attack went all the way up to the President himself. They may not have known the exact day or location, but they could have at least done something, but instead did nothing. And if the Bush administration was complacent with al Qaeda, so was the Clinton administration. Remember, bin Ladin was an operative of our own government during the Soviet-Afghan war.
I totally agree. It goes waaaayyyy back. That's what i tried to tell you. That book would interest you.

As far as the article by The Guardian. I did a bit of a groan seeing that it's their article. I don't put too much credence in their articles because they have a strong left-leaning agenda. Sorry. :sorry:

[SpyridonOCA]

As far as the article by The Guardian. I did a bit of a groan seeing that it's their article. I don't put too much credence in their articles because they have a strong left-leaning agenda. Sorry. :sorry:

It's publicly available information. The particular bias of the publication, whether liberal or conservative, does not change that fact. If you could point out one part in the quote I posted that isn't true, please do so.

[Dorothea]

It's publicly available information. The particular bias of the publication, whether liberal or conservative, does not change that fact. If you could point out one part in the quote I posted that isn't true, please do so.
I would if I would've read it. I don't read certain sites or articles, etc. if I feel I don't trust them. If you have another link about this, I'll read it. :blush:

[buzuxi02]

The prediction of 9-11 towers coming down has been suposedly predicted by many. In fact the most popular prediction comes from the heretic Vasula Ryden exactly 10 years before it occured. A woman who writes poetry claiming she has sex with God.

If you fold a dollar bill a particular way, it depicts the towers crumbling.
Theres only so much one can do. Who would of thought 5 people per plane can hijack and bring them down with box cutters.

[MariaRegina]

Conspiracies?

We have always had evil people who conspire to do nasty deeds.

History does repeat itself.

Remember how the city of Troy was deceived by the Trojan Horse?

Remember how Christ was deceived by the Sanhedrin who asked Judas to betray Him? That was a conspiracy wasn't it?

So, yes, there are conspiracies going on today.

The militant Islamics have formed a conspiracy.

The oil cartel has their own conspiracy to set prices.
The drug cartel also has their own conspiracy.
Why would the FDA outlaw perfectly good herbs and natural remedies
when psychoactive drugs were newly on the market?
They want to eliminate the competition.
Isn't this also called conspiracy.

And certain Hitler had his own conspiracy and set it in operation.

For that matter, Marx and Lenin and Stalin were also involved in the brotherhood of evil and wanted to destroy Christianity.

Now who is the mastermind of all these evil conspiracies?

Isn't it the Devil, Lucifer? And doesn't he have a bone to pick with Christ?
Isn't he the one who said that he would not serve?

So, yes, it is possible that the Twin Towers were brought down by charges set in crucial places.
And yes, the building was underleased and not operating in the black.
Surprisingly, the building was not even half occupied and key tenants were not even in the office.
Could they have been alerted that the day had come to level it to the ground?

[SpyridonOCA]

I would if I would've read it. I don't read certain sites or articles, etc. if I feel I don't trust them. If you have another link about this, I'll read it. :blush:

That reminds me of what liberals say about Fox News, which happens to be a very good source on certain events that other media outlets underreport.

[SpyridonOCA]

How many predictions of 9/11 implicated the U.S. government?

Who would of thought 5 people per plane can hijack and bring them down with box cutters.

The intelligence community already knew that Islamic terrorists within our country were planning to use airliners as weapons. President Bush, in the weeks before 9/11, received ample warning of an immediate terrorist attack, and chose to do nothing, just as Clinton chose to not capture bin Laden when he had the chance.

[SpyridonOCA]

Please keep in mind that I am neither a leftist nor a liberal. I think liberals are misguided, because they place way too much trust in the government's ability to solve problems. As Reagan stated, government is the problem.

[Dorothea]

That reminds me of what liberals say about Fox News, which happens to be a very good source on certain events that other media outlets underreport.
:)

[SpyridonOCA]

I recommend reading Elder Anthony's prophecy as carefully as possible.

[Vasileios]

Spyridon here is what I don't get.

How do you connect "America" with the apocalyptic, one - world government? You seem to imply that the "men who rule America", are the ones who also pursue this one world-government of the antichrist.

Why does that even matter? What does that have to do with the next elections or the previous elections? What does that have to do with Iran or Iraq? World politics and economies are a chaotic system, where the US is a major player but it is very far from being the only player or even the most influential player.

You are turning what is possibly an event of biblical proportions into a short-sighted american politics thing, whose fault it is and what did Bush and heney had to do with it and who we must vote for (why I wonder? I mean there are prophecies about it, it's not like it is not going to happen one day. Are we aiming for postponement here?)

What makes you think that any single politician, party or movement will prevent the reign of Antichrist? You think America or for that matter any part of the world will be spared? Really?

What happens though during this futile politics derailment is that a lot of people who do not necessarily agree with your political opinions or beliefs are offended, and you know that they do. That's the thing that bothers me. You know that a lot will be offended. How can that not bother you and prevent you from pursuing these discussions? Are they ignorant in their Orthodoxy? Cause THAT is where it's AT. Come the dreadful hour, what will really make a difference is our faith in Christ.

Our love for God and our neighbour. What is this doing for your love towards your Christian brothers and sisters?
And for that matter, your avatar is provocative. After that thread, you know it is. You chose an avatar AFTER that thread. That is petty. It really is. And so is this line of questioning you keep throwing at everyone here.

Forgive me, I think you needed to be told this, I do not intend to offend you.

[repentant]

Let's be honest now, that's a pretty good prediction for everything. One day everything will "fall down like paper", not many monuments pass the test of time, and even those that are still around will one day fall into ruin. Couldn't he possibly be referring to the ephemeral nature of material things? and it just so happened that he was referring to the Towers at that moment.

Well considering it was a few months to a year prior, and also the fact that he was looking at someones pictures of their trip to New York, in which he saw many large buildings, and happened to say what he said only when he saw the Twin Towers...I think he knew exactly what he was saying....

Elder Ephraim haters have to try and disprove everything....what a shame..

[SpyridonOCA]

Spyridon here is what I don't get.


What I don't understand is why one would trust the corrupt American government over the prophecy of an Eastern Orthodox monk. The Clintons, the Bushes, who are they really? These are not people working in our best interest, nor for the greater glory of God. This is the same government that bombed Serbia on Pascha Sunday and gave Turkey the permission to attack Cyprus. Do we have many blessings as Americans? Whatever blessings we have come from God, not from government. I'm sorry to hurt or offend anyone, but sometimes, the truth hurts.

[buzuxi02]

Well considering it was a few months to a year prior, and also the fact that he was looking at someones pictures of their trip to New York, in which he saw many large buildings, and happened to say what he said only when he saw the Twin Towers...I think he knew exactly what he was saying....

Elder Ephraim haters have to try and disprove everything....what a shame..
I would indeed say then, that was a legitimate prophecy of the destruction of the towers.

The problem with most of these prophecies is, since the collapse of the WTC most of the supposed prophecies ive heard , always mention a single tower. The OP of this thread is an example, as is the heretic Vasula's prophecy. It speaks of a single 'tower' and can be interpreted in a myriad of ways.

Secondly such imagery would be common, influenced from popular biblical verses. It recalls the tower of babel and the Siloam tower that collapsed. Just look at the parallel between the scriptural texts and the prophecy of Elder Anthony:

"There were present at that season some who told him about the galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answered and said to them, Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, No; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem?" (Lk13.1-5)

On the other hand OT verses can easily be interpreted as predicting the collapse of the WTC with astonishly great accuracy:

'And there shall be upon every high mountain and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of water in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers' fall. (ISAIAH 30.25)

"That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness. A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers." (Zep 1.15-16)

The above Zephaniah verses would be very accurate, the terrorists struck 2 cities and when the towers fell the amount of thick cloud and darkness from the debris was great same with the smoke from the pentagon building.

Ironically those who believe that Nostradamus predicted 9/11 NYC, do not consider NYC as the new babylon but the 'City of God'. This supposed Nostradamus prophecy of 9/11 was repeated over and over again on the greek news in Greece. This is the Nostradamus verse used:

"In the City of God there will be a great thunder. Two brothers torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures the great leader will succumb. The third big war will begin when the big city is burning."

According to the Nostradamus gurus, The brothers torn apart by chaos are the twin towers. The fortress is the pentagon building. The great leader is the american government who will start ww3 against the muslims.

We can read into these prophecies what we want, but it doesnt make them divine revelation or even accurate.

[SpyridonOCA]

Released: September 06, 2007

Zogby Poll: 51% of Americans Want Congress to Probe Bush/Cheney Regarding 9/11 Attacks; Over 30% Seek Immediate Impeachment

67% also fault 9/11 Commission for not investigating anomalous collapse of World Trade Center 7
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1354

[buzuxi02]

Released: September 06, 2007

Zogby Poll: 51% of Americans Want Congress to Probe Bush/Cheney Regarding 9/11 Attacks; Over 30% Seek Immediate Impeachment

67% also fault 9/11 Commission for not investigating anomalous collapse of World Trade Center 7
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1354


All these conspiracy theories have been debunk by popular mechanics magazine who carried out an investigation using the top professionals in the various fields including professional demolition experts, who did not view the 7wtc collapse as a controlled explosive. There were no explosives in the basemnts of the twin towers neither, The towers collapsed from the top down while its exterior flaked or peel off causing damages to other buildings. The shopping mall in the lower level of the towers were basically intact, which rules out any ground floor explosions. One only needs to look at the evidence to demonstrate that the conspiracy theorists make things up.

Just recently Structure Magazine (a publication for structural engineers) in their Nov 2007 issue further debunked the conspiracy theory of 7 WTC being a controlled demolition 7 hours later. . here is that article:

http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf (http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf)

[Dorothea]

All these conspiracy theories have been debunk by popular mechanics magazine who carried out an investigation using the top professionals in the various fields including professional demolition experts, who did not view the 7wtc collapse as a controlled explosive. There were no explosives in the basemnts of the twin towers neither, The towers collapsed from the top down while its exterior flaked or peel off causing damages to other buildings. The shopping mall in the lower level of the towers were basically intact, which rules out any ground floor explosions. One only needs to look at the evidence to demonstrate that the conspiracy theorists make things up.

Just recently Structure Magazine (a publication for structural engineers) in their Nov 2007 issue further debunked the conspiracy theory of 7 WTC being a controlled demolition 7 hours later. . here is that article:

http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf (http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf)
Yes, I've heard about that.

[Prawnik]

buzuxi: don't bring in facts or evidence.

Anyway, refusal to accept the official version of any event is seen as a sign of sophisticated thinking among some.

[Greg the byzantine]

Well considering it was a few months to a year prior, and also the fact that he was looking at someones pictures of their trip to New York, in which he saw many large buildings, and happened to say what he said only when he saw the Twin Towers...I think he knew exactly what he was saying....

Elder Ephraim haters have to try and disprove everything....what a shame..

I'm not an Elder Ephraim hater, I really don't know much about him. Just thought I'd bring that up.

[repentant]

People love to read and learn about, and also wish they could have met, Holy men such as Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain, Elder Ephraim of Katounakia, Fr. Seraphim Rose, Elder Cleopa, Elder Porphyrios, etc...and there is on such man living in the US right now...and people don't bother.....

[SpyridonOCA]

Elder Anthony's prophecy can be read in a different way from the website's interpretation. "The sacrifices of their own rulers," instead of implying foreknowledge of the attacks, could merely suggest that 9/11 happened as punishment for the sins of our national leaders. According to the 9/11 Commission, bin Laden wanted to attack the United States because of our presence in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries. Furthermore, "explosion" need not refer to bombs, as there were obviously other reasons for there to be explosions in the World Trade Center on the day of 9/11.

[ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs]

People love to read and learn about, and also wish they could have met, Holy men such as Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain, Elder Ephraim of Katounakia, Fr. Seraphim Rose, Elder Cleopa, Elder Porphyrios, etc...and there is on such man living in the US right now...and people don't bother.....

I'm hoping to get some of the men from our mission together at some point in the next couple of years to visit a monastery for a week. One of the men wants to be a monk so I'm sure he would jump at the chance and I think all of them would love to visit for some spiritual refreshing.

I'd love to meet Elder Ephraim and I think one of his monasteries would be a great choice. How can we get in touch with someone to make arrangements to visit and hopefully meet him?

[MariaRegina]

I'm hoping to get some of the men from our mission together at some point in the next couple of years to visit a monastery for a week. One of the men wants to be a monk so I'm sure he would jump at the chance and I think all of them would love to visit for some spiritual refreshing.

I'd love to meet Elder Ephraim and I think one of his monasteries would be a great choice. How can we get in touch with someone to make arrangements to visit and hopefully meet him?

Contact St. Anthony´s Greek Orthodox Monastery in Arizona. Do a google search. I did and they are easy to find as they are online. However, remember that the Elder cannot meet with everyone.

[repentant]

I'm hoping to get some of the men from our mission together at some point in the next couple of years to visit a monastery for a week. One of the men wants to be a monk so I'm sure he would jump at the chance and I think all of them would love to visit for some spiritual refreshing.

I'd love to meet Elder Ephraim and I think one of his monasteries would be a great choice. How can we get in touch with someone to make arrangements to visit and hopefully meet him?

Saint Anthony’s
Greek Orthodox Monastery
4784 N. St. Joseph’s Way,
Florence, AZ 85232-9399
Tel: (520) 868-3188
Fax: (520) 868-3088


Just call and tell them when you are coming. There are overnight visitors there all year long. That is why Geronda built them...especially St. Anthony's. It is very hard to talk to Geronda since everyone wants to talk to him, and St. Anthony's is the second most visited place in AZ. He also unforunately doesn't speak English, which also makes it hard...sometimes if you just want to talk and get some Spiritual advice, someone can translate for you..but don't count on it. But if he is there, you will see him around...he is usually at dinner Trapeza, and people wait after to kiss his hand when he comes out..so everyone does see him...


It is a little easier to talk to Elder Paisios, and he speaks English...he is also a holy man, there are stories I heard about him too...so you can always talk to him..he can look very intimidating, but is very nice...

Anyway, just call and go...trust me, you won't regret it...I urge everyone on here, and all Orthodox to go there at least once..

P.S...everyone can stay there for 10 days, longer than that and you will need a special blessing from Elder Paisios...

[SpyridonOCA]

We should know by now that a "war on terrorism" cannot possibly be won, as you cannot win a war against a tactic, but only against a particular person, government, or organization. The intelligence community has told us that, since 9/11, terrorist attacks have increased exponentially. This is because the more people we preemptively attack in the name of "anti-terrorism," the more terrorists we create.
If we were fighting in a reasonable response to 9/11, we would not have diverted our troops from the search for bin Laden in order to invade Iraq. Remember, Dick Cheney stated that the "war on terrorism" could last for decades. Is that what we really want? The war on bin Laden, the man who really attacked us, could have ended years ago.

[SpyridonOCA]

double post

[Asinner]

Saint Anthony’s
Greek Orthodox Monastery
4784 N. St. Joseph’s Way,
Florence, AZ 85232-9399
Tel: (520) 868-3188
Fax: (520) 868-3088


Just call and tell them when you are coming. There are overnight visitors there all year long. That is why Geronda built them...especially St. Anthony's. It is very hard to talk to Geronda since everyone wants to talk to him, and St. Anthony's is the second most visited place in AZ. He also unforunately doesn't speak English, which also makes it hard...sometimes if you just want to talk and get some Spiritual advice, someone can translate for you..but don't count on it. But if he is there, you will see him around...he is usually at dinner Trapeza, and people wait after to kiss his hand when he comes out..so everyone does see him...


It is a little easier to talk to Elder Paisios, and he speaks English...he is also a holy man, there are stories I heard about him too...so you can always talk to him..he can look very intimidating, but is very nice...

Anyway, just call and go...trust me, you won't regret it...I urge everyone on here, and all Orthodox to go there at least once..

P.S...everyone can stay there for 10 days, longer than that and you will need a special blessing from Elder Paisios...

I was just there 2 weeks ago. :crosseo:

Love,
Christina

[SpyridonOCA]

America's Priorities in the War on Terror
Islamists, Iraq, Iran, and Pakistan
By Michael D. Huckabee

From Foreign Affairs , January/February 2008
Summary: The Bush administration's arrogant bunker mentality has been counterproductive at home and abroad. American foreign policy needs to change its tone and attitude, open up, and reach out. In particular, it should focus on eliminating Islamist terrorists, stabilizing Iraq, containing Iran, and toughening its stance with Pakistan.
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20080101faessay87112/michael-d-huckabee/america-s-priorities-in-the-war-on-terror.html?mode=print


Mike Huckabee is a GOP candidate other than Ron Paul who is willing to critique the Bush administration's disastrous foreign policy.

[Xpycoctomos]

Mike Huckabee is a GOP candidate other than Ron Paul who is willing to critique the Bush administration's disastrous foreign policy.
???? Well I honestly don't care if he's GOP or any other acronym. I like a lot of his stuff (I am intrigued by ROn Paul though). Also, Hukabee is being severely criticised by his GOP "peers" for critiquing Bush on the war in almost every aspect. Do you even really know anything about him?

In the end, it doesn't matter too much. My opinion ius that it will be Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton. So, it will be either of them or a third party candidate.

[SpyridonOCA]

What Mike Huckabee's piece shows is that the Iraq war is not a conservative vs. liberal issue, it's a foreign policy issue, that of a disastrous foreign policy. If we were fighting a war on terrorism, rather than a war of imperial conquest, we would have found bin Laden rather than invading a third world nation that never attacked us.

[repentant]

Why does everyone assume that it will automatically be this person or that, or that so and so doesn't stand a chance..?

Do you all know that this time in 2003, John Kerry was no where near the top nor a front runner in his party? (actually by this time in 2003, he was starting to move up and be known)

So everyone has a chance, even someone who everyone and their mother is trying to hold down, but yet managed to raise over 6 million dollars in one day, and over 4 million in one day a month ago....also Hildabeast is going down in the polls to Barrack...

[Xpycoctomos]

What Mike Huckabee's piece shows is that the Iraq war is not a conservative vs. liberal issue, it's a foreign policy issue, that of a disastrous foreign policy. If we were fighting a war on terrorism, rather than a war of imperial conquest, we would have found bin Laden rather than invading a third world nation that never attacked us.
I'm not sure we would have found bin Laden, but I agree with your point that it's not a conservative vs liberal or patriotic vs unpatriotic issue and Bin laden certainly has nothing to do with the reason we went to Iraq but rather ALLOWED us to go into Iraq.

[Khaleas]

What Mike Huckabee's piece shows is that the Iraq war is not a conservative vs. liberal issue, it's a foreign policy issue, that of a disastrous foreign policy. If we were fighting a war on terrorism, rather than a war of imperial conquest, we would have found bin Laden rather than invading a third world nation that never attacked us.
Nice bird there...

[Xpycoctomos]

Nice bird there...
huh?

[SpyridonOCA]

I'm not sure we would have found bin Laden, but I agree with your point that it's not a conservative vs liberal or patriotic vs unpatriotic issue and Bin laden certainly has nothing to do with the reason we went to Iraq but rather ALLOWED us to go into Iraq.

If Bush hadn't pulled our troops out of Tora Bora, we could have found him. If Bush were willing to invade Pakistan, rather than Iraq, we could have found him.

[Aristokles]

Why is even being discussed on an Orthodox forum? Idle, meaningless prattle...

[Latreia]

Elder Anthony of Holy Trinity-St. Sergius Lavra is the Russian Orthodox monk who prophecized the attacks of September 11, 2001. I first learned this from speaking with a Russian Orthodox monk who lives in the United States.


Excerpt from "Spiritual Conversations and Instructions of Elder Anthony"
Part 2, pages 112-113 ...Spiritual Conversations...


All of life in the last times will be one continuous sorrow and pain. And here it is not so important who is guilty of this or that, not at all. Sinful life itself--is already a catastrophe. The more "civilized" the place of habitation is, the more technical and apocalyptic natural disasters there will be. I saw contemporary Sodom--New York, in flames, the furnace of hell, ruins and countless sacrifices. But are they sacrifices?! Sacrifices are always pure, but these that perish are defiled, not having preserved their purity, having rejected the Truth and thrown themselves into the abyss of mankind, that is, demonic superstition. In trying to create a tower like the tower of Babylon for this enlightened government without God and His law, they will be its first sacrifices. The sacrifices of their own rulers even. As one of the steps toward a world-wide government, they will offer at the altar of Baal the lives of their fellow citizens.These rulers, people who believe in a judaism which has been reborn into satanism, in expectation of the false messiah, the antichrist, will do everything to bring about wars and tragedies of world-wide significance.


But the fire and destruction from this is not the end, but only the beginning. For the initial fire and destruction of the new Babylonian tower is from an explosion*,-- by the hand of man, although allowed by God. This evil deed, as an especially grave sin, will summon natural disasters. An explosion in the sea will cause a huge wave which will engulf the New Testament Sodom [ N.Y.]. Gomorrah [L.A.] will also soon suffer destruction from terrible storms, from water."

* Refers to the fact that the World Trade Center was brought down by explosives. For an analysis and explanation, see videos and links below...
http://www.orthodoxrevival.com/index/911Prophecy.html








"As one of the steps toward a world-wide government, they will offer at the altar of Baal the lives of their fellow citizens.


These rulers, [I]people who believe in a judaism which has been reborn into satanism, in expectation of the false messiah, the antichrist, will do everything to bring about wars and tragedies of world-wide significance."


Right here is where you lost any chance of my considering validity in this OP and compound that with the OP about Putin's great "status" as a statesman extraordinaire.

It takes a considerable talent to completely ignore all the facts about Osama bin Laden and his total sacrifice of Afghanistan as the political goat for the Al Qaeda agendas.

It really didn't take much digging to see the former head of the CIA, daddy President Bush, whose coldly evil ploys have been betraying American citizens for years.

Only a shrewd and callus political mechanism such as the Republican abuse of the past years could have produced such deliberate, misbegotten chaos.

From Somalia to the Taliban to Saddam's regime, and yes, to the outrageous use of 9/11 for attempting an American dictatorship that has failed to secure anything but chaos and elimination of the
American middle class.

Only Russia can excel in the subjection of the media in comparison to Bushites and coporate take-over of American llives and livelihoods.

Incredibly, when I actually saw the second jet hit the World Trade Towers, there was a horror, instantaneously, inside my heart, that it did not have to happen.

I was going to know the full truth of it and the quest took me all into sources and facts that I wish I had never seen or understood.

Just notice one thing, at the top of my every post is an Israeli flag.

[SpyridonOCA]

Right here is where you lost any chance of my considering validity in this OP and compound that with the OP about Putin's great "status" as a statesman extraordinaire.

It takes a considerable talent to completely ignore all the facts about Osama bin Laden and his total sacrifice of Afghanistan as the political goat for the Al Qaeda agendas.


I don't think we need to doubt that bin Laden shared in the responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. The important question is whether the event has been manipulated for political reasons. "Judaism that has turned into Satanism" most likely refers to Zionism, both Jewish Zionism and Christian Zionism. It should be obvious that one reason why the Bush administration invaded Iraq, and why they currently pressure Iran, is our support for Israel. According to the Orthodox Church, the Church is the New Israel, and therefore, any attempt to restore the ancient Kingdom of Israel is illegitimate in the eyes of God. You can support the state of Israel, but remember that this state wouldn’t exist without the persecution and suffering of Palestinian Christians. Jesus said that Jerusalem would fall for the sins of His people, and He was right. Let it not be rebuilt.

[Aristokles]

Incredibly, for the first time in a long while I must agree with young "Spiros" on this. The modern nation-state of Israel has been a scourge upon the Church no less than the plague of Islam. Zionism is nothing more than another heresy - all politics aside.

[Latreia]

Out of respect for this forum, I will not discuss these points with you here.

Also, I object to the use of TAW in your arguments to promote anti-Zionist agendas. Link to another thread where you and I are not being disrespectful to a forum where politics are not only unwelcome, but does not comply with TAW's guidelines or the wishes of the members here.

My deepest apologies and regrets to all members of this forum and TAW.

Forgive me.

[SpyridonOCA]

Also, I object to the use of TAW in your arguments to promote anti-Zionist agendas. Link to another thread where you and I are not being disrespectful to a forum where politics are not only unwelcome, but does not comply with TAW's guidelines or the wishes of the members here.

The Orthodox Church is anti-Zionist. That doesn't mean we are anti-Israel, but we are anti-Zionist. The New Testament, which was written by the Orthodox Church, is anti-Zionist.

[Latreia]

Incredibly, for the first time in a long while I must agree with young "Spiros" on this. The modern nation-state of Israel has been a scourge upon the Church no less than the plague of Islam. Zionism is nothing more than another heresy - all politics aside.

That is your view and your right to post it.

But since I propose moving this new debate about Zionism to another thread in another forum, I hope you will join us there, if Spyridon will agree.

Again, my deepest apologies to the wonderful members of TAW.

:sigh:

[SpyridonOCA]

But since I propose moving this new debate about Zionism to another thread in another forum, I hope you will join us there, if Spyridon will agree.


There is no need for debate. You either believe that the Church is the New Israel, as the Bible clearly teaches, or you don't.

[Latreia]

The Orthodox Church is anti-Zionist. That doesn't mean we are anti-Israel, but we are anti-Zionist. The New Testament, which was written by the Orthodox Church, is anti-Zionist.

I do not know that, at all.

As I am not a member of the Orthodox Church, I doubt that I am bound by it.

There is no need for debate. You either believe that the Church is the New Israel, as the Bible clearly teaches, or you don't.

Nor do I accept you as an authority on any subject.


I shall not post again on this thread, but if you wish to pursue your point as valid, I will follow you thence.

[SpyridonOCA]

I'm sorry to have hurt or offended you. I hope that, someday, you will be aware of the suffering of Palestinian Christians.

[Sacrum Silentium]

... Politics should not be allowed in TAW. God have mercy on us.

[ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs]

Politics should not be allowed anywhere. ;)

[SpyridonOCA]

... Politics should not be allowed in TAW. God have mercy on us.

The Orthodox Christian teaching on the Church being the New Israel is not a political issue, it's in the Orthodox Study Bible. Neither is the prophecy of a Russian Orthodox monk a political issue.

[Xpycoctomos]

The Church is the New Isreal. One's point of view on Isreal is purely politically, good or bad, and has nothing to do with Orthodox Theology in any way. This may nto be a view shared by some denominations, but this is the position of the Orthodox Church... She is the New Isreal and that is the only thing that has any meaning to her udnerstanding of God, salvation and theology in general.

I didn't knwo that politics was forbidden in TAW. I can see why before we had the debate subforum, but I think that that should be seriously revisited and is very short-sighted. Campaigns and important political movements and elections are going on all over the place, all the time. I can agree that we should keep it out of the main forum in order ot keep threads focused, but we shouldn't act as if 80% of the threads in the main forum are any less "mere prattle" than people sharing their opinions on the future leaders of the US or Russia.

if people don't like politics they can stay out of the thread. I stay out of most threads becuase they either look boring, out of my league, have little to do with me, or I have no informed opinion to comment (so in such a case I might not ignore them, but I don't participate).

Also, people should not expect that a thread with 9/11 in the title is not going to naturally get political. (not that the OP was complaining about this) but if one doesn't like politics, it might be good to stay away from threads like this. Pretty simple actually.

So, what about allowing politics over in the debate sub-forum?

Xpy

[SpyridonOCA]

NORAD had drills of jets as weapons
By Steven Komarow and Tom Squitieri, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.

One of the imagined targets was the World Trade Center. In another exercise, jets performed a mock shootdown over the Atlantic Ocean of a jet supposedly laden with chemical poisons headed toward a target in the United States. In a third scenario, the target was the Pentagon — but that drill was not run after Defense officials said it was unrealistic, NORAD and Defense officials say.

NORAD, in a written statement, confirmed that such hijacking exercises occurred. It said the scenarios outlined were regional drills, not regularly scheduled continent-wide exercises.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm


What explains the failure of NORAD to respond on the day of September 11th, 2001?

This is just one of many coincidences related to 9/11:
http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html

[SpyridonOCA]

The technology to use cell phones on an airliner didn't even exist at the time of 9/11.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2004-07-19-aircells_x.htm

bin Laden had ties to the CIA
http://msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1

The five alleged Flight 77 hijackers lived in a motel right outside the gates of the NSA
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/2033791.stm

Five of the alleged 9/11 hijackers receive training at secure US military bases
http://www.msnbc.com/news/create_p1.asp?cp1=1&cpm=1&cpe=1&URL=msnbc.com/news/629529.asp

[nutroll]

If your contention was that Bush is a colossal failure as president, I would agree. I think he was not at all concerned with terrorism and did little to nothing to increase our ability to deal with a terrorist attack. I think he ignored intelligence that suggested that an attack was imminent, and when it was clear that we were under attack, he didn't have a clue how to react. That being said, I don't think he orchestrated 9-11, and I don't think he knowingly allowed it to happen. I think both of those would have required too much effort on his behalf, and would have shown him to be a much more aware and clever man than I believe he is. I watched some of the conspiracy films, and read some of the conspiracy website stuff, and while they make a compelling case, the case is based on a selective reading of the evidence, with no regard for anything contrary to their thesis. I wouldn't put any trust in them, but that doesn't mean that I put any trust in our president either.

As for cell phones, I think the point of the article that you linked to is that cell phones could not be safely used prior to the technology being talked about in the article. My understanding is that cell phones have a tendency to interfere with the communications equipment that the pilots need access to to safely fly the plane. They have always been usable which is why the airlines will ask you to turn them off in flight.

[SpyridonOCA]

That being said, I don't think he orchestrated 9-11, and I don't think he knowingly allowed it to happen.

Neither do I. I believe that Bush is too inept of a president to have orchestrated the attacks and covered it all up. However, it may have been a creation of the military-industrial complex. Given our oil interests in the Middle East, if there were no bin Laden, we would need to invent one. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look for bin Laden and dismantle his terrorist network, and it's unfortunare that our president has done little on this end.

[Khaleas]

Neither do I. I believe that Bush is too inept of a president to have orchestrated the attacks and covered it all up. However, it may have been a creation of the military-industrial complex. Given our oil interests in the Middle East, if there were no bin Laden, we would need to invent one. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look for bin Laden and dismantle his terrorist network, and it's unfortunare that our president has done little on this end.
And I'm glad that you're smart enough to make those conclusions...

*ROTFL*

[Xpycoctomos]

Neither do I. I believe that Bush is too inept of a president to have orchestrated the attacks and covered it all up. However, it may have been a creation of the military-industrial complex. Given our oil interests in the Middle East, if there were no bin Laden, we would need to invent one. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look for bin Laden and dismantle his terrorist network, and it's unfortunare that our president has done little on this end.
you know, jsut because one believes that the US gov likes war for purposes of making money and such, does not lead to the conclusion that people with in the government created or even purposely allowed and hoped for 9/11. The fact is that injustice and calamaties happen all the time so that even the people with the most evil of ways of making money do not have to create something like 9/11. Something will ALEWAYS happen. They didn't need 9/11 to start an injust war. If they are truly as evil as you suggest (which may be true) then they are also clever enough to find other ways to dupe the US into an unrelated war.

You consipiracy theory is elementary at best... and really annoying because based on your standards of research anyone can say absolutely anything... with proof at a very minimum.

[Xpycoctomos]

If your contention was that Bush is a colossal failure as president, I would agree. I think he was not at all concerned with terrorism and did little to nothing to increase our ability to deal with a terrorist attack. I think he ignored intelligence that suggested that an attack was imminent, and when it was clear that we were under attack, he didn't have a clue how to react. That being said, I don't think he orchestrated 9-11, and I don't think he knowingly allowed it to happen. I think both of those would have required too much effort on his behalf, and would have shown him to be a much more aware and clever man than I believe he is. I watched some of the conspiracy films, and read some of the conspiracy website stuff, and while they make a compelling case, the case is based on a selective reading of the evidence, with no regard for anything contrary to their thesis. I wouldn't put any trust in them, but that doesn't mean that I put any trust in our president either.

As for cell phones, I think the point of the article that you linked to is that cell phones could not be safely used prior to the technology being talked about in the article. My understanding is that cell phones have a tendency to interfere with the communications equipment that the pilots need access to to safely fly the plane. They have always been usable which is why the airlines will ask you to turn them off in flight.
great post

[SpyridonOCA]

And I'm glad that you're smart enough to make those conclusions...

*ROTFL*

You can laugh all you want at me. But dare you laugh at Elder Anthony? What say you to the prophecy of Elder Anthony?


Excerpt from "Spiritual Conversations and Instructions of Elder Anthony"
Part 2, pages 112-113 ...Spiritual Conversations...


All of life in the last times will be one continuous sorrow and pain. And here it is not so important who is guilty of this or that, not at all. Sinful life itself--is already a catastrophe. The more "civilized" the place of habitation is, the more technical and apocalyptic natural disasters there will be. I saw contemporary Sodom--New York, in flames, the furnace of hell, ruins and countless sacrifices. But are they sacrifices?! Sacrifices are always pure, but these that perish are defiled, not having preserved their purity, having rejected the Truth and thrown themselves into the abyss of mankind, that is, demonic superstition. In trying to create a tower like the tower of Babylon for this enlightened government without God and His law, they will be its first sacrifices. The sacrifices of their own rulers even. As one of the steps toward a world-wide government, they will offer at the altar of Baal the lives of their fellow citizens.These rulers, people who believe in a judaism which has been reborn into satanism, in expectation of the false messiah, the antichrist, will do everything to bring about wars and tragedies of world-wide significance.
http://www.orthodoxrevival.com/index/911Prophecy.html


Do you have more loyalty to a political party or a secular government than to the Orthodox Church? I'm sorry to hurt or offend anyone, but we really need to consider the implications of this prophecy. We know that Orthodox mystics have given accurate prophecies in the past. It's a gift of God. Whether or not this prophecy implies foreknowledge, it at least shows what we all know happened, that the event of 9/11 was manipulated to justify imperialistic war.

[nutroll]

You can laugh all you want at me. But dare you laugh at Elder Anthony? What say you to the prophecy of Elder Anthony?



Do you have more loyalty to a political party or a secular government than to the Orthodox Church? I'm sorry to hurt or offend anyone, but we really need to consider the implications of this prophecy. We know that Orthodox mystics have given accurate prophecies in the past. It's a gift of God.
But how do you know that he was prophesying about the attack on the WTC? Just as a fer instance, On September 12th 2001, I decided on my own, without the prodding of the president, to go do some shopping and stimulate the economy that I knew would be hit hard by the terrorist attacks (that's not entirely true, I just wanted to do something to cheer myself up after that horrible day) So I went and bought myself a new bass guitar, and then stopped and picked up my comic books from the comic book store (nerd alert!). The day after the terrorist attacks, there was an image in one of the Superman comic books that very much resembled the WTC towers. http://www.holy-icons.com/2towers.jpg

It should be pointed out first that these towers are not supposed to be the WTC twin towers, but fictitious buildings in a fictitious world. This image had been drawn months before the attacks, and had gone to print and shipped before the attacks, and so one can be sure that they didn't print it in response to the attacks, but what are we to make of it. One could say that it was prophetic, but that gives a lot of credit to the writers and artists that work on a comic book. Once could say that it is a coincidence, but that seems unlikely given how accurate it looks. Or one can say that it is obvious to anyone that the twin towers in NY, along with many other monuments have always been a source of national pride for our country and as such they are a target. The artists that drew it knew that this was a powerful image for the story that they were writing, and it turned out to be even more powerful than they could have imagined when the real thing happened.

I think that the words of Holy men and women can indeed be prophetic, but sometimes the narrow view loses the real meaning. What I see in the words you quoted is a prophetic statement about all that man seeks to build up as a testament to his own pride. I see a statement that God will strike down what we exalt. Was he talking about the WTC? yes. Was he talking about the Pentagon? yes. Was he talking about all our monuments, all of our exalted civilization, the hollywood writer's strike? Yes, yes and yes. We need to understand that all that we have built apart from God will be knocked down. And our government will allow it all to happen, will orchestrate it happening, and will be instrumental in making these words come true. They might not know they are doing it, but so long as they seek after the things of this world, they will bring destruction to whatever they create.

You can look at that picture I posted and see it as prognostication, or as a few artists that understand how images resonate with people. You can look at the words of Elder Anthony and think that he foretold terrorist attacks, or you can understand that he sees human nature with God's eyes and knows that whatever we exalt will be humbled. I would rather take the broader view.

[SpyridonOCA]

You can look at the words of Elder Anthony and think that he foretold terrorist attacks, or you can understand that he sees human nature with God's eyes and knows that whatever we exalt will be humbled. I would rather take the broader view.


It's not just that he foretold the attacks, but what would happen afterward, imperialistic war and natural disasters. It has all come to pass.

[nutroll]

It's not just that he foretold the attacks, but what would happen afterward, imperialistic war and natural disasters. It has all come to pass.
natural disasters and wars happen all the time. They are a symptom of the sickness of this world. It does take a special person to see this sickness for what it is, but I think what is being said is more important than one set of events.

[SpyridonOCA]

natural disasters and wars happen all the time. They are a symptom of the sickness of this world. It does take a special person to see this sickness for what it is, but I think what is being said is more important than one set of events.

I believe you are reading it too broadly.


I saw contemporary Sodom--New York, in flames, the furnace of hell, ruins and countless sacrifices...

How did he know that a tower in New York would explode?


These rulers, people who believe in a judaism which has been reborn into satanism, in expectation of the false messiah, the antichrist, will do everything to bring about wars and tragedies of world-wide significance.


How did he know that Zionists would use 9/11 as a pretext for war?


This evil deed, as an especially grave sin, will summon natural disasters. An explosion in the sea will cause a huge wave which will engulf the New Testament Sodom [ N.Y.]. Gomorrah [L.A.] will also soon suffer destruction from terrible storms, from water."


When Los Angeles and New York are underwater, then will people start listening? Scientists are already predicting that this will occur.

[Greg the byzantine]

It's not just that he foretold the attacks, but what would happen afterward, imperialistic war and natural disasters. It has all come to pass.

war, natural disaster, famine, poverty will occur in the future, because without a doubt they are occuring now, have occured in the past, and will occur in the future. Important building will be blown up, world leaders will be assasinated, cities will be destroyed, whole countries will be conquered, people will be placed in bondage and servitude.

History repeats itself again and again, it doesn't take a saint to predict these things.

[nutroll]

I believe you are reading it too broadly.
I respectfully disagree. You can choose to read it as a direct prediction of one set of events, but where is the value in that? Do you really think that God gives Holy men and women a glimpse of the future so that people can wait for these things to happen and say I told you so? Or is it that these Holy people tell us about the world we live in and what we can expect from this world in all cases? I prefer the broader view which, by the way, includes the narrower reading. As I said, he was predicting what happened, but also much much more.

How did he know that a tower in New York would explode?

The same way that I knew it would. Back in 1993, there was a bomb that was meant to take down the one tower. It really isn't rocket science to think that there would be another attempt. So long as we have these towers and monuments to ourselves, others will seek to tear them down, and God will not stop them because they are no more than monuments of our pride. I'm not saying this because I think this should happen, but because it will happen. It has happened in the past, it is happening now, and it will happen in the future. Those towers were always a target.

How did he know that Zionists would use 9/11 as a pretext for war?
First of all, I don't agree that this has anything to do with Zionism. George W Bush launched an air attack on Iraq within a month of getting into office. It was not a surprise at all, but it was quickly forgotten. When I first learned of the terrorist attacks, one of my first thoughts was that we would be going to war with Iraq, The reason I thought this is that I knew he had a one track mind, and that he would use anything as a pretext for war. Now the overall strategy toward the middle east does have issues based in Zionism, and this will always be a pretext for wars. It does not take a gift of foreknowledge to see that.

When Los Angeles and New York are underwater, then will people start listening?

So thus far you are saying that Elder Anthony predicted 9-11 and the war in Iraq because it fits with your conspiracy minded point of view, and you are certain that next we will be plunged underwater. What I am saying to you is that if you make this claim, no one will listen to you. No one will listen because you have provided nothing but a statement that only lines up with your version of the facts. What I am saying is that these monuments to our selves will be torn down and destroyed. This will be used as a pretext for retaliation, for revenge, and for pushing an agenda, and that this will continue until we destroy ourselves through our failure to heed warnings. My view can be seen in what happened on 9-11, can be seen in the Iraq war, can be seen throughout the history of many past civilizations, and will be just as true when it happens again some other time. The broader view contains the narrower view, and is just as careful to heed the warnings given. Your view focuses on one set of predictions coming true, but then once it has, what is the use of the prediction besides to say I told you so?

[SpyridonOCA]

So thus far you are saying that Elder Anthony predicted 9-11 and the war in Iraq because it fits with your conspiracy minded point of view, and you are certain that next we will be plunged underwater.

Please read this article, if you have not done so already:
This war on terrorism is bogus
The 9/11 attacks gave the US an ideal pretext to use force to secure its global domination
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1036687,00.html

Project for a New American Century, a neoconservative think tank with members of the Bush administration, wrote before 9/11 that a "new Pearl Harbor" was necessary to ensure their military agenda. The plans for invading Afghanistan had already been drafted before 9/11 took place. And since 9/11, there has been no serious attempt to find Osama bin Laden, the man who purportedly attacked us. This is information available, not from a loony conspiracy theorist, but from the mainstream media.


US 'planned attack on Taleban'
By the BBC's George Arney

A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before last week's attacks...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1550366.stm

[nutroll]

Please read this article, if you have not done so already:
This war on terrorism is bogus
The 9/11 attacks gave the US an ideal pretext to use force to secure its global domination
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1036687,00.html

Project for a New American Century, a neoconservative think tank with members of the Bush administration, wrote before 9/11 that a "new Pearl Harbor" was necessary to ensure their military agenda. The plans for invading Afghanistan had already been drafted before 9/11 took place. And since 9/11, there has been no serious attempt to find Osama bin Laden, the man who purportedly attacked us. This is information available, not from a loony conspiracy theorist, but from the mainstream media.
I don't need to read those, I knew about the Project for a New American Century years ago. And again, I am not arguing that Elder Anthony's words aren't about current circumstances, only that they aren't about just these circumstances.

[SpyridonOCA]

I don't need to read those, I knew about the Project for a New American Century years ago. And again, I am not arguing that Elder Anthony's words aren't about current circumstances, only that they aren't about just these circumstances.

How many coincidences do there need to surface before we are willing to question the official story on 9/11? It's public information now that FDR could have prevented Pearl Harbor, as he received warning of an immediate attack from Japan, but chose not to as pretext for entering World War II. It's also public information that, before 9/11, the plans for invading Afghanistan were already drafted and there were numerous warnings of an immanent attack from Islamic terrorists within our country.

Doesn't our government tend to repeat itself? What makes the Bush administration different from FDR? Is President Bush somehow holier of a man, because he is a conservative evangelical? I don't want to believe that our government is evil, and willingly allows its own people to be killed, but neither do I want to believe it is extraordinarily incompetent. Neither option is desirable for a man who honestly wants to love his country and its civil institutions. But the fact that 9/11 happened despite numerous warnings, and the fact that it was abused as a pretext for unprovoked war, forces us to choose either conclusion. The real delusion is that 9/11 was unpreventable and that Iraq was somehow involved.

[nutroll]

How many coincidences do there need to surface before we are willing to question the official story on 9/11? It's public information now that FDR could have prevented Pearl Harbor, as he received warning of an immediate attack from Japan, but chose not to as pretext for entering World War II. It's also public information that, before 9/11, the plans for invading Afghanistan were already drafted and there were numerous warnings of an immanent attack from Islamic terrorists within our country.

Doesn't our government tend to repeat itself? What makes the Bush administration different from FDR? Is President Bush somehow holier of a man, because he is a conservative evangelical? I don't want to believe that our government is evil, and willingly allows its own people to be killed, but neither do I want to believe it is extraordinarily incompetent. Neither option is desirable for a man who honestly wants to love his country and its civil institutions. But the fact that 9/11 happened despite numerous warnings, and the fact that it was abused as a pretext for unprovoked war, forces us to choose either conclusion. The real delusion is that 9/11 was unpreventable and that Iraq was somehow involved.

You really read a lot into people's statements. Where have I ever said that I like George W. Bush? Where have I ever said that 9-11 could not have been prevented? I have said time and again that I think that the words spoken by Elder Anthony are true in this situation, but that I don't think he was trying to accurately predict a specific event. I think he was speaking of what has happened, what is happening, and what will happen. I am, however, disturbed by the bolded portion of your statement. The reason why is that it is the same rationalization that you used for depicting God the Father. You didn't want to believe that something wrong could be attributed to something good. Get over this thinking. There is no perfection that comes from people. Perfection comes from God. The Church is infallible because it is of God, what people do in churches is not infallible because it is from man. And no government, no matter how good its intentions is exempt from this rule. All that government is and does is fallible and will show this fallibility in time. I think your problem is that you need to see this as a conspiracy because you have built it up as an either or situation. Either the government is completely incompetent, or it is behind 9-11. How about the government is completely incompetent, and it is responsible for what happened on 9-11 through a combination of negligence, acquiescence, bad policy here and abroad, as well as a number of other factors. I have no need to buy into conspiracy theories because I know that real life is not a tautly written novel where all the pieces come together. Sometimes crap just happens, and though it is part of God's plan, there's nobody to pin it on. And that stinks because it doesn't leave us feeling like we know what's going on in the world around us, but guess what? We don't know what is going on around us. The answer is not to look for prophecies by Holy men to explain what did happen, but to follow the teachings of Holy men so that no matter what happens, we will be in God's hands.

[SpyridonOCA]

The answer is not to look for prophecies by Holy men to explain what did happen, but to follow the teachings of Holy men so that no matter what happens, we will be in God's hands.

I agree with you on this. We should always place our trust first in God. But I still wish that it could be morning in America once again. The beacon of light that was America is becoming dimmer by the hour.

[repentant]

Not for nothing but I think Elder Anthony said Sodom and Gamora, but New York and LA was added after..in other words he never said NY and LA..

ok continue..

[Xpycoctomos]

I don't need to read those, I knew about the Project for a New American Century years ago. And again, I am not arguing that Elder Anthony's words aren't about current circumstances, only that they aren't about just these circumstances.
A lot of people don't know about that document. It's basically a the road map (and more) to waht the Bush administration ended up doing. People don't realize that the fact that we went to war in Iraq was planned LONG before 9/11 and bush jr was ever in office.

Eirie stuff...

[SpyridonOCA]

America: Freedom to Fascism (Full Movie)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=%22from+freedom+to+fascism%22&total=108&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Please watch this important film. There is no law which requires us to pay the income tax. Almost every violation of our individual rights can be traced to the federal tax system. Imperialistic wars could not be waged if we, as the American people, refused to pay for them. May God have mercy on us all.

[repentant]

Please watch this important film. There is no law which requires us to pay the income tax. Almost every violation of our individual rights can be traced to the federal tax system. Imperialistic wars could not be waged if we, as the American people, refused to pay for them. May God have mercy on us all.

Actually there is..it's called the 16th Amendment, ratified in 1913, coincidently the same year that the FED was created...why do we pay taxes?..to pay the interest to the rich Jews who created the FED.....allthough I do agree this Amendment should be appealed, and we need to lose the FED...there is a Constitutional Amendment to support the goverment collecting taxes on our income..

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

[Xpycoctomos]

Actually there is..it's called the 16th Amendment, ratified in 1913, coincidently the same year that the FED was created...why do we pay taxes?..to pay the interest to the rich Jews who created the FED.....allthough I do agree this Amendment should be appealed, and we need to lose the FED...there is a Constitutional Amendment to support the goverment collecting taxes on our income..

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
So, we pay interest to Jewish people. No one else?

Repentant. please edit your post. I don't think you fully grasp how offensive your choice of words are. I would like to know what being jewish has to do with this.

[repentant]

The Jews started and run the FED...don't you know this? Rockafellar, Morgan, all those guys...Jews..if the truth offends, so be it...no PC from me...

[Latreia]

The Jews started and run the FED...don't you know this? Rockafellar, Morgan, all those guys...Jews..if the truth offends, so be it...no PC from me...

If only Jews started the FED, you need to go and immediately rewrite the entire Wikipedia article, which clearly shows that the Federal Reserve was begun a bit further back:


The First Bank of the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bank_of_the_United_States) (1791-1811) and the Second Bank of the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bank_of_the_United_States) (1816-1836) each had 20-year charters, and both issued currency, made commercial loans, accepted deposits, purchased securities, had multiple branches, and acted as fiscal agents for the U.S. Treasury.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve


J.P. Morgan was born in 1837 and John D. Rockefeller, Jr. was born in 1874.

So how could they alone have started and run the FED?

:scratch:

[repentant]

If only Jews started the FED, you need to go and immediately rewrite the entire Wikipedia article, which clearly shows that the Federal Reserve was begun a bit further back:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve


J.P. Morgan was born in 1837 and John D. Rockefeller, Jr. was born in 1874.

So how could they alone have started and run the FED?

:scratch:


Rockefellar was born in 1839..July 8, 1839 to be exact....died in 1937...and the FBUS and the SBUS are not the FED..and I didn't say them alone started it, I said "Morgan, Rockefellar... all those guys.."

[Latreia]

Rockefellar was born in 1839..July 8, 1839 to be exact....died in 1937...and the FBUS and the SBUS are not the FED..and I didn't say them alone started it, I said "Morgan, Rockefellar... all those guys.."

Then there were a lot of little details left out the "rich Jews" accusation.

But were "all those guys" Jews, each and every one? Including all the Presidents involved?

The Federal Reserve System has always been subject to the entire U.S. government, it seems. Unless, of course, our entire government for decades have been all Jews.

:scratch:

In the FED article, it is John D. Rockefeller, Jr. that is involved, he was born 29 January 1874. The elder had no involvement with the FED, too busy with his Standard Oil monopoly.
But also he is known as a great philanthropist



Rockefeller revolutionized the petroleum industry and defined the structure of modern philanthropy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller

[repentant]

Then there were a lot of little details left out the "rich Jews" accusation.

But were "all those guys" Jews, each and every one? Including all the Presidents involved?

The Federal Reserve System has always been subject to the entire U.S. government, it seems. Unless, of course, our entire government for decades have been all Jews.

:scratch:

Listen, I am not going to sit here and try to teach you history...the FED is not part, nor subject to the government..it is a private banking organization from which the US and other countries borrow money from. The US borrows money, and pays it back with interest by our taxes. Where do you think the national debt comes from? The men who started the FED were Jews, it is history and you can't change it, no matter how much of a Zionist you are. There was only one President involved with the establishment of the FED, not many...and that is Woodrow Wilson. After he signed the Bill which allowed the FED to be established, he then said that it was the worst mistake made by any President, and as a result the country will suffer. And it has...as a result, our money was removed from the gold standard, and backed by thin air...


Why do Christians believe that they must support and defend Israel? Don't you realize that Israel is a country, and has nothing to do with the Old Covenant Jews? The Israel of the Bible now exists in the Christian Church, not in a country created in 1948...the Jews of today are nothing but an antiChrist...

Whatever Rockefellar it was, he is still a Jew...

[Latreia]

Listen, I am not going to sit here and try to teach you history...the FED is not part, nor subject to the government..it is a private banking organization from which the US and other countries borrow money from. The US borrows money, and pays it back with interest by our taxes. Where do you think the national debt comes from? The men who started the FED were Jews, it is history and you can't change it, no matter how much of a Zionist you are. There was only one President involved with the establishment of the FED, not many...and that is Woodrow Wilson. After he signed the Bill which allowed the FED to be established, he then said that it was the worst mistake made by any President, and as a result the country will suffer. And it has...as a result, our money was removed from the gold standard, and backed by thin air...


Why do Christians believe that they must support and defend Israel? Don't you realize that Israel is a country, and has nothing to do with the Old Covenant Jews? The Israel of the Bible now exists in the Christian Church, not in a country created in 1948...the Jews of today are nothing but an antiChrist...


Well, I am sorry you did not have the time to read the article that gives all the details about the FED.

Jesus died a Jew. What then say you?

Quite a contradiction in terms, I fear.

:sigh:

[repentant]

Well, I am sorry you did not have the time to read the article that gives all the details about the FED.

Jesus died a Jew. What then say you?

Quite a contradiction in terms, I fear.

:sigh:

Wikipedia articles and 5 dollars gets you a Starbucks..they are worthless..

Jesus died a Jew..and was Ressurected the Savior..and so did Moses, David, Isaiah, and all the Prophets died as Jews...what is your point? That is the oldest arguement in the book, "Jesus was Jew, so we must be Zionists"..give me a break..and you seemed to miss the part where I said, "the Jews of today"...so saying Jesus was a Jew to try and make it seem like I am speaking against Jesus, or even any of the OT Prophets, is erroneous

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

I will stick to Scripture, thanks...

[Latreia]

Then as Eastern Orthodox, you deny any role in bringing Christ even to Jews through your comments about them?

How do these posts I read here speak of love and humility?

Stick to whatever you chose.

Jesus speaks of Love, that is all He asks of us. Even I can do that.

God grant you peace.

http://www3.christianforums.com/images/icons/icon2.gif

[repentant]

Do you not understand what people post? I mean honestly..I am speaking of the Jews of TODAY, not BC..The Jews of today have as much to do with bringing in Christ, as you do in bringing the Koran to the Muslims...absolutely nothing...Israel is the Church, and those that chose not to accept Christ have been trimmed off the vine...they are antichrist as John said..they that deny the Son, have no part in the Father....do you not understand this basic concept in Scripture?

John 15
1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Do you understand what Jesus is saying above?

Luke 20
9Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.

10And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.

11And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.

12And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.

13Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

14But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

15So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?

16He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.

17And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

18Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Do you not understand this parable?

[Akathist]

Staff have reached consensus that this thread is to be moved to the debate area.

There is some concern by fellow TAW members about posts that may be against the jewish people as a race of people. Racist remarks are against CF rules. Please review your posts and make sure that someone reading them will not misinterpret what any of you say to be a racist remark.

Remember, we have lurkers who read things while thinking about if they want to convert to our faith.

[Philothei]

I thought political threads are allowed in the debate area..... right?

I found this thread very intereting....:)
God bless,
Philothei

[Philothei]

The Church of Christ will prevail... No matter how hard the forces of violence and deciet will hit ...His Truth reins into the ages of ages. Amen. We need to pray more and trust more....

God bless,
Philothei