Talk to me about LCMS

[vle045]

Hello...

I am here to learn. I know NOTHING about Lutheranism... So please keep it simple ;)


Incase you wonder why I am asking...

I have moved to a new city/state... where I know no one. My hubby is Catholic, so I have been studying Catholocism.

But something just doesn't feel right. So before I make the choice to become fully Catholic, I really want to learn about other denominations. I like to know what I am getting myself into.

My cousin is Methodist and I used to go to a Methodist Church with her when we were growing up, so I am looking at that too.

There is a LCMS Church right down the road from me, so I thought I'd see what they were about and whether I might want to check them out too.

So any comparisons to Catholic and Methodist faiths would be helpful if anyone has the knowledge........

Thanks.

[Plutoniua]

Well, ill just give you a link to the LCMS questions page :)
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=71

But as a preface. There are alot of theological differences between Lutherans and Methodist/Catholics

[vle045]

I find that Methodists and Catholics are very different from each other.... Is Lutheran different from both as well?

No wonder some people get so confused. LOL.

I respect all religions... as long as they are generally positive. But it's hard to know what is "right" for me when I have never really given it much thought in my life. Until a few months ago, I REALLY thought they were all pretty much the same......

.......silly me.

[Plutoniua]

I find that Methodists and Catholics are very different from each other.... Is Lutheran different from both as well?

No wonder some people get so confused. LOL.

I respect all religions... as long as they are generally positive. But it's hard to know what is "right" for me when I have never really given it much thought in my life. Until a few months ago, I REALLY thought they were all pretty much the same......

.......silly me.
'Religions'? Technically they all are Christian bodies. However there is a some large theological differences that separate these three church bodies. If you really, and I mean really, want to know every difference. I would suggest reading the Catachesim of the Catholic Church (Roman Catholic Church), Articles of Religion (Methodists) and the Book of Concord (Lutheran).

Links Below:
Articles of Religion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Religion_%28Methodist%29
Book of Concord - http://www.bookofconcord.org/
Catechism of the Catholic Church - http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

I realize this is a large body of reading material and information. Perhaps you should narrow down your question to one pertaining to Salvation, the sacraments, ect.... :) I know DaRev will do a much better job explaining the main differences in theology. But then again he is a Pastor and I am not :).

[DaRev]

I find that Methodists and Catholics are very different from each other.... Is Lutheran different from both as well?

No wonder some people get so confused. LOL.

I respect all religions... as long as they are generally positive. But it's hard to know what is "right" for me when I have never really given it much thought in my life. Until a few months ago, I REALLY thought they were all pretty much the same......

.......silly me.

In practice, the Lutheran Church is similar to the Roman Catholic Church in that we generally follow a similar liturgy and order of service. Here are a couple links to show specific differences bewteen Lutherans and Roman Catholics, and Lutherans and Methodists.

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2542

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2236

[MagnusEmboden]

Most Lutheran worship will look a lot like a kind of Catholic low mass and if you went to a fairly liturgical Methodist church, you may also see similarities.

Our doctrine is very different though.

Lutherans are Bible people. We have confessions and we accept the three greats Creeds but at the bottom we are Bible people. We believe in Sola Scriptura in a way that most Protestant Christians do not (that's a lot to get into though).

Anyhow, the high lights about the LCMS:

We believe the Bible to be the inspired, inerrant Word of God.

We believe the Book of Concord of 1580 to be a true exposition of Biblical doctrine on all that it touches upon not insofar as it agrees with the Bible but precisely because it does so.

We do not ordain women to offices of Church Authority (Pastor, Elder, etc.)

We believe that Baptism washes away sins.

We believe that in the Lord's Supper, we really receive, with the bread and the wine, the true Body and Blood of Jesus broken and shed for the forgiveness of our sins.

Since we believe this and we take seriously Paul's injunction against partaking of the Supper unworthily; i.e. without recognizing the Body, we reserve the Sacrament to members of our Church only. We believe that do do otherwise does a couple bad things:

1. It says that we are in perfect agreement with the doctrine of other churches since we believe the Lord's Supper to be a fellowship meal, a family meal and a sign of our common confession.

2. It endangers those who would partake without recognizing either this unity or the Real Presence of Christ in the meal since, again, Paul tells us that doing so is to "eat and drink damnation"

Other than these, can anyone else think of some things that might be helpful for her to know?

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Magnus and Da Rev. gave you great answers.

The short answer is: Remove ALL un-Biblical teachings and practice from the Roman Catholic Church, and you are left with Confessional Lutheranism.

Mark

[vle045]

I am sure I will come back with more questions when I have a longer stretch of quiet time (I have a toddler)...

But for now... Can you explain to me about Confession? I didn't know Lutherans had Confession...


PS... by religions... i guess I meant denominations....

[vle045]

I have been reading the links... thank you so much for all of this information...

WOW!

Very interesting...

Lutherans have some of the things I like about Catholocism... and none of the things that I don't
(like prayers to Mary and Saints, stuff like that)

[MagnusEmboden]

Vle,

Do you have any church background at all?

Other than visiting your cousin's church, I mean?

I ask because depending on where you're coming from, Lutheranism can look different.

Like most things, it looks different from different angles. But it is seen best from the cross.

Our approach to the Bible and pretty much everything is 'soteriological' which a fancy word for "having to do with salvation".

For us, it's all about Jesus and what He did for us.

We were dead and He made us alive and forgave us and clothed us in His righteousness so that we, sinners, can stand before a God Who is no longer wrathful toward us but Who now loves us for Jesus sake and accepts us as His own sons and daughters.

He bespoke us righteous.

We tend to view everything through the lens of this great salvation He has made for us.

Every page of the Bible says Jesus to us. Ideally, every day is a new insight into His death, burial and resurrection.

We are cross-centered. We say with Paul that the message of the cross is foolishness to the perishing and that we, with him, purpose to know nothing except Christ and Him crucified.

We celebrate Easter like all Christians and certainly confess His death, burial, resurrection and ascension; but we always look at all of this from the shadow of the cross. That's where we like to make camp.

To some this is boring, but we find that there are riches enough here in His mercy to satisfy any soul and we don't need to go looking elsewhere for anything.

[vle045]

ooops

[vle045]

I have always only been a "visitor" of various churches with friends and family. My mom was sort of "anti-church". I don't know why, she never talked about it... She just said she doesn't like it and won't go. End of discussion. So there was no church in my upbringing. Which is possibly why I never understood that they are all different.

But oddly, my mom took me to be baptised in a Catholic Church.... and we never set foot in there again.

[porterross]

I have been reading the links... thank you so much for all of this information...

WOW!

Very interesting...

Lutherans have some of the things I like about Catholocism... and none of the things that I don't
(like prayers to Mary and Saints, stuff like that)


Dr. Luther felt the same way.;) You sound like a Confessional Lutheran to me. :thumbsup:

[jcj3803]

You might also want to look at the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, which is a cornerstone of Methodism:

http://www.theopedia.com/Wesleyan_Quadrilateral

[Aibrean]

Word of note, what Magnus was saying is specific to LCMS. ELCA ordains women. Also, when we say "Confessional" we don't mean confessing sins to a priest.

From the wikipedia:
"Confessional Lutheran is a name used by certain Lutheran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheranism) Christians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity) to designate themselves as those who accept the doctrines taught in the Book of Concord (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Concord) of 1580 (the Lutheran "confessional" documents) in their entirety, because they believe them to be completely faithful to the teachings of the Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible). While most Lutheran denominations find the basis of their faith in the Book of Concord (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Concord), "Confessional Lutherans" maintain that faithfulness to it requires attention to how that faith is actually being preached, taught, and put into practice. Confessional Lutherans believe that this is a vital part of their identity as Lutherans."

The ELCA is not confessional because they donot require that its church workers and congregations pledge unqualified acceptance of the full doctrinal content of the Book of Concord. The ELCA views the Lutheran Confessions as historical expressions of the faith held to be true at the time that they were written, but not necessarily as normative standards for teaching and practice today.

[RadMan]

Edited: posted question in wrong forum.

[KimLCMS]

Welcome,
I noticed that you are in Ohio. I think you may live near my ( and Aibrean's ) church. Emmanuel Lutheran Church in Kettering. PM me if you'd like to look into it. It is LCMS. You said you had a little one; they have great resources for little ones there! I have a 6,4, and 2 year old.

[NordicLutheran]

Sweet Vle045 sounds like a confessional Lutheran. Welcome to the family:wave:!

[vle045]

Hi! And thanks for answering me...

I do not yet have a full grasp on what "confessional" Lutheran means. (I may have to read those links a little better). I guess that is somewhat of a misnomer to say Confessional... The first thing that comes to mind is Confessing to a Priest. Which is not really something I would prefer to do.

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Private confession and absolution with ones Pastor can be a great comfort, but we would never compel one to go.

Mark

[DaRev]

Hi! And thanks for answering me...

I do not yet have a full grasp on what "confessional" Lutheran means. (I may have to read those links a little better). I guess that is somewhat of a misnomer to say Confessional... The first thing that comes to mind is Confessing to a Priest. Which is not really something I would prefer to do.

The word "Confessional" in the context of "Confessional Lutheran" means "a formal statement of religious beliefs". This means that we as Confessional Lutherans hold to a formal statement of beliefs that are derived solely from the Bible. These statements, known as the Lutheran Confessions, are contained in the "Book of Concord of 1580 (http://www.bookofconcord.org/)". The 10 documents conatined in this book are thoroughly Scriptural and help us to understand what the Bible teaches on a number of topics.

Not all who call themsleves "Lutheran" are Confessional. The ELCA does not hold to the Lutheran Confessions as being thoroughly Scriptural and thus have some very different interpretations of Biblical doctrines.

[vle045]

I think I am starting to get it... Thank you.

I have some other general questions and it comes from my Catholic frustrations...

Does the Lutheran Church have a sort of list of life "RULES" that you MUST follow to the letter or you are sure to go to hell? Seriously. I have had a few conversations with Catholics that seemed to end with, well the Church says that you can't do that and if you knowingly disobey the Church, you will go to hell.

It makes me want to slap my forehead and shout "DOH!"

And this is not even about MAJOR topics... at least not from where I am sitting. And they aren't referring to anything in the Bible... they are referring to the Catechism Book or various Pope writings. It drives me nuts sometimes.

Then they place the fear in you that if you follow ANY other Church teaching... including other Christian Churches, then you are a heretic and will go straight to hell.

And the whole thing is just causing me more frustration and confusion.

[DaRev]

The only sin that sends anyone to hell is unbelief. Mark 16:16, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. Whoever does not believe will be condenmed."

The Lutheran Church holds to "sola Scriptura" which means "Scripture alone." We teach that the Bible is the inspired word of God, without error, and is the sole source and norm of all teaching and practice in the Church. The Lutheran Confessions (the Book of Concord) helps us to know what the Scriptures teach.

The good works that we do, following what the Bible teaches, keeping the Commandments, etc., are all fruits of faith. We do them, not to be saved, but because we are saved.

[Aibrean]

By the way Vle...when I went to Dayton Christian (growing up until high school) I rode the bus with several people that went to Alter (and thus St. Charles). Though I don't know who goes there now (other than Jennifer Keys and perhaps Tina Pernik my high school French teacher).

As to what DaRev said...that's pretty much it :) We don't do works to be saved, it is a result of our faith. I think that is what is hindering a lot of other people in other denominations...they get so shrouded with legalism and do's and don'ts that they loose their foundations and what the Bible really teaches.

When you say right down the road, I think you mean OUR church (Emmanuel Lutheran) because that's the only LCMS in Kettering (which is about 4 miles away from St. Charles) and there is one in Oakwood and the next closest is I think Fairborn. Our church offers 2 services. We aren't high church...but kind of in the middle. We have an 8:15 service which follows a liturgy and has hymns and then a 11:00 service which is more contemporary but also is reverent.

You can find more details about our church here: www.emmanuellc.org (http://www.emmanuellc.org)

And Pastor Phil is awesome so feel free to email him from the site if you have questions :)

Feel free to give me or Kim a buzz via PM or email :)

[rockytrails]

YOU can learn about confessional lutheranism here
this site does contain many many items from confessional lcms sources along with other confessional lutheran sources.

http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/lutherantheology.html#lc

[vle045]

By the way Vle...when I went to Dayton Christian (growing up until high school) I rode the bus with several people that went to Alter (and thus St. Charles). Though I don't know who goes there now (other than Jennifer Keys and perhaps Tina Pernik my high school French teacher).

As to what DaRev said...that's pretty much it :) We don't do works to be saved, it is a result of our faith. I think that is what is hindering a lot of other people in other denominations...they get so shrouded with legalism and do's and don'ts that they loose their foundations and what the Bible really teaches.

When you say right down the road, I think you mean OUR church (Emmanuel Lutheran) because that's the only LCMS in Kettering (which is about 4 miles away from St. Charles) and there is one in Oakwood and the next closest is I think Fairborn. Our church offers 2 services. We aren't high church...but kind of in the middle. We have an 8:15 service which follows a liturgy and has hymns and then a 11:00 service which is more contemporary but also is reverent.

You can find more details about our church here: www.emmanuellc.org (http://www.emmanuellc.org)

And Pastor Phil is awesome so feel free to email him from the site if you have questions :)

Feel free to give me or Kim a buzz via PM or email :)
Thank you. Now I KNOW where Kettering is... it is not as close as I thought. I am closer to Cleveland. I am from Pennsylvania, so my OH geography is pretty bad. I asked for a GPS for Christmas so I won't get lost as often. LOL.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

OBVIOUSLY, I agree with the LCMS because I joined a church affiliated with it...

To better understand Lutheranism, check out this forum of this website (LOTS of good threads in all these pages - don't forget all the back pages), the www.lcms.org (http://www.lcms.org) and www.wels.org (http://www.wels.org) sites (they differ in some policy issues but their theology is essentially the same), there's a good book I recommend to all. It's called "The Spirituality of the Cross by Gene Edward Veith, Jr. (Concordia Publishing House). It's a short book written by a layperson, and was helpful to me as I investigated Lutheranism.


BUT, I'd want to stress, that congregation vary quite a bit within denominations. The "unity of doctrine" in the LCMS is very strong (MUCH stronger than in most Protestant denominations) but everything else can vary. Visit this congregation. Make an appointment and talk with the pastor (Lutheran pastors are very well trained in theology and they are all pretty much theology junkies who LOVE IT when a layperson will discuss it with them, LOL). I probably worshiped in 5-6 LCMS congregations and quickly concluded I'd never join there - until I found the small one I go to now. Again, probably no official theological differences, but lots of other differences.



Blessings on your journey!!!!


Pax


- Josiah


PS I come out of a liberal Protestant "roots" and spent some 5 years in Catholicism - not too different than the situation you are in?





.

[vle045]

OBVIOUSLY, I agree with the LCMS because I joined a church affiliated with it...

To better understand Lutheranism, check out this forum of this website (LOTS of good threads in all these pages - don't forget all the back pages), the www.lcms.org (http://www.lcms.org) and www.wels.org (http://www.wels.org) sites (they differ in some policy issues but their theology is essentially the same), there's a good book I recommend to all. It's called "The Spirituality of the Cross by Gene Edward Veith, Jr. (Concordia Publishing House). It's a short book written by a layperson, and was helpful to me as I investigated Lutheranism.


BUT, I'd want to stress, that congregation vary quite a bit within denominations. The "unity of doctrine" in the LCMS is very strong (MUCH stronger than in most Protestant denominations) but everything else can vary. Visit this congregation. Make an appointment and talk with the pastor (Lutheran pastors are very well trained in theology and they are all pretty much theology junkies who LOVE IT when a layperson will discuss it with them, LOL). I probably worshiped in 5-6 LCMS congregations and quickly concluded I'd never join there - until I found the small one I go to now. Again, probably no official theological differences, but lots of other differences.



Blessings on your journey!!!!


Pax


- Josiah


PS I come out of a liberal Protestant "roots" and spent some 5 years in Catholicism - not too different than the situation you are in?





.
Thanks for your input. I'll check out the sites.

I have noticed something lately.... (among Catholics)... there is a lot of discussion on what the Church teaches and that if you don't follow EVERYTHING then you are committing a grave sin and will basically burn in hell for an eternity. I don't recall that from any of the Protestant Churches i have attended.

Has anyone else noticed this? I mean, in their own church?

It's really a huge turn off.

[DaRev]

Thanks for your input. I'll check out the sites.

I have noticed something lately.... (among Catholics)... there is a lot of discussion on what the Church teaches and that if you don't follow EVERYTHING then you are committing a grave sin and will basically burn in hell for an eternity. I don't recall that from any of the Protestant Churches i have attended.

Has anyone else noticed this? I mean, in their own church?

It's really a huge turn off.

That is Roman Catholicism.

[vle045]

I am seriously noticing that lately. I will probably check out my local LCMS after the holidays.

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I'm sure there are some (many) things that members and Clergy alike have problems with. I have one or two myself, but for the sake of unity and peace I accept the Chruch's and the Pastor's authority.