I hate my church

[MagnusEmboden]

It's a sin, I know and I do not know that I can do adequate justice to the why's and wherefors.

Doubtless the problem really lies with me.

My wife, our two children and I are members of a large suburban LCMS parish. The church is, well, moderately church growth (pastors still wear cinctured surplice, the necessary elements are present in the liturgy, when the assistant preaches we always get good Law / Gospel; when the senior preaches we sometimes do but more normally we get psycho-babble).

We have "Deacons" who are, as near as I can tell, under-educated, officious and self-promoting hirelings...but I digress.

We have a school. My children attend the school. My wife is active in the parish life.

The speaker for this year's Advent Aglow was a lesbian (Evidently no one knew it when she was contracted to speak).

We have terrible discipline both about tyhe Lord's table and church membership. Nobody wants to make waves.

We have a woman who is actively involved in White Supremacist groups and who is involved in a sexual relationship with a married man. The leadership of the church has adopted a sort of "hear no evil" pastoral approach, if they ignore it, it might just go away and anyway, if they make a big deal about it, it might hurt the stewardship drive.

Can you tell I am a bit bitter?

I am not posting this to get you to fix it for me. I'm just venting.

By the way,

Hello!

[filosofer]

Howdy, and welcome to the board.

It is sad to hear what you are experiencing. Such an atmosphere can negatively affect many people, not just yourself.

Have you gone to the senior pastor and raised your concerns?

[RadMan]

Welcome to the club. You are experiencing what many church bodies in the whole Lutheran domain are. The influx of "chruch growth". Being something for everybody and loosing the Christian/Lutheran identity in the process. Part of the Ablaze, WillowCreek Assoc. A lot of people choose to ignore the problem because it "feels good"

Oh-----BTW---welcome to our board.

[ctay]

Almost sounds like a church I know. One of the things, the kids would run around the sanctuary between sunday school and the church service, around the altar and stuff. The pastor didn't say much, he wanted them not to be afraid to come to church. That's ok to not want them to be afraid to come to church but they should show some respect. He'd give communion to anyone. He's left but the people in the church want to find one just like him. They should be looking for one that preaches right first and does everything right then have other stuff come after that.

[MagnusEmboden]

In the school foyer of my church there are a couple of standing "flip" stands, I am not sure how to describe them except to say they are what they used to have at record stores to sell posters. You just flip the boards back and forth.

Anyhow, one of these shows the adult confirmation classes (including my own, yes, I am a convert and when the picture was taken, I had hair!).

I am always struck, when I flip through the last ten years or so of these, by how many of the people in the pictures no longer attend the church. At a guess, I'd say it's around 80%.

Certainly some of these people have moved away, and probably not a few of them left because St. Thomas wasn't progressive enough, but even these are only a fraction of all the gone faces.

Thus the church growth movement.

[MagnusEmboden]

Enough whining though.

I am Lutheran. I love being Lutheran and I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran. I know what that means and I stick to it, I don't want to be anything else.

I am used to sticking with causes that don't seem to know where they're going:

I am also a Detroit Lions fan.

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I too have shared the feeling that you have. I could not in good conscience stay in my previous LCC Congregation. Praise God I found one of the same Synod, closer to home which is confessional, as is the Pastor.

Bless you for remaining steadfast.

Mark

[LilLamb219]

Welcome!

Have you considered going to a different nearby church (Lutheran, of course!)?

[MagnusEmboden]

Welcome!

Have you considered going to a different nearby church (Lutheran, of course!)?

Yes. As I said though, my kids are in the school and though my wife has problems with it, she doesn't have as many as I do (but then I generally have a lot of problems).

It would be too much of a shift.

I am just resigned to praying for change and staying.

[IowaLutheran]

I am used to sticking with causes that don't seem to know where they're going:

I am also a Detroit Lions fan.

A Lions fan certainly knows about being loyal during hard times!

[LilLamb219]

Yes. As I said though, my kids are in the school and though my wife has problems with it, she doesn't have as many as I do (but then I generally have a lot of problems).

It would be too much of a shift.

I am just resigned to praying for change and staying.

If she has some problems with it (even though they aren't as many as the ones you have), I'd still try to visit other churches in the area...maybe on a Saturday evening or something?

[MagnusEmboden]

Maybe we will. Thank you for the kind words and the support.

Any of you could very easily have told me to shut up and quit feeling sorry for myself and you would have been right to do so.

[porterross]

Enough whining though.

I am Lutheran. I love being Lutheran and I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran. I know what that means and I stick to it, I don't want to be anything else.

I am used to sticking with causes that don't seem to know where they're going:

I am also a Detroit Lions fan.


Uh, huh. The LCMS church I grew up in is no longer recognizable to me and there might be a handful of people of left at this point. I put up with it for as long as I could and I was called the "quitter" when I left. Until it dies completely nothing is going to change and then maybe the few hundred Lutherans in the area might be willing to go back. :sigh:


We have to drive about 150 miles round trip to get proper Law & Gospel and traditional liturgy. It stinks, doesn't it? :cry:

[MagnusEmboden]

A Lions fan certainly knows about being loyal during hard times!

At this point, we're hangin' on for baseball season.

[jcj3803]

Uh, huh. The LCMS church I grew up in is no longer recognizable to me and there might be a handful of people of left at this point. I put up with it for as long as I could and I was called the "quitter" when I left. [...]



Interesting to hear these stories. I left the LCMS when a new pastor came into my home church to replace the incumbent retiring pastor. The new guy knew theology but was a horrible speaker and would tolerate no discussion (or any other form of "mutiny") about his decisions.

About two years after I left, there was a huge schism in the congregation because of something the new pastor did - nobody's talking about it and perhaps rightfully so. Members demanded the District censure him (or whatever) etc. Over half the congregation went ELCA.

[ctay]

I might have made a mistake in switching, the pastor is good and everything, having trouble with my mother. I should have known better, she's controlling and you can't talk to her, she knows it all, I feel like I'm 10 instead of almost 50.

[seajoy]

I might have made a mistake in switching, the pastor is good and everything, having trouble with my mother. I should have known better, she's controlling and you can't talk to her, she knows it all, I feel like I'm 10 instead of almost 50.
She can only control you if you let her.
*years of experience with own mother* :)

My whole family left the Lutheran church...except me. My mother could not believe it, and told me how sad it was. :doh: Tell your mom...."At least I'm still Lutheran!"

[ctay]

I usually ignore her but it doesn't work and you can't talk to her. Example I went on a couple of trips to help with cleanup after Katrina. Instead of saying something like I'm proud of you, she told me I couldn't go. Or like found out I went shopping, instead of saying something like I heard you went shopping, why don't we plan on a shopping trip? She's like why didn't you come pick me up and carried on.

[ricg]

I find myself being too critical of the congregations I've been in -- to the point that it has distracted me from concentrating on worship. I have really tried the last few years to focus on the positive and try to make a difference where I can by trying to concentrate on positive contributions. Try volunteering to work on something that you think isn't being done right. It gives you not only a greater stake, but greater insight. You might modified your own views or discover ways to effect positive change while doing as little damage as possible in the process. It seems to have helped me.

[Radiata]

A Lions fan certainly knows about being loyal during hard times!
Hey, you're from Iowa. What do you know about being a Lion's fan?

[Radiata]

A friend has told me that not all practice is uniform in the LCMS. And that's a problem. We can now no longer say "They will know we are Lutheran by our barbecues." There is too much of a diversity within the synod, and it is very unlikely "that our unity will one day be restored."