Do you carry in Church?

[aReformedPatriot]

Greetings everybody. It's been a while, eh?

Given the recent church shootings I'd like to talk about one thing in particular. Firearms and the carrying of weapons. Do you carry in Church?

http://xf0.xanga.com/3fcc200b06332161910686/z121953668.jpg

[FreeinChrist]

NO.

I see no reason for it.

[MrJim]

:D
Yo TLE, haven't seen ya around;)

I did for a while about 6 years ago but haven't since.


Nice pic, the Preaching Pistolerohttp://bestsmileys.com/shooting1/25.gif

[daveleau]

My wife's Glock never leaves her purse. Especially with all the things going on, I encourage her to take it everywhere she goes. But, the idea of her concealed carry was initially her idea, not mine. We need to go for target practice again, because it's been a long time since she's gone.

I don't have a good firearm for carriage, myself. I have a cheap one, but I don't feel it is one I am comfortable carrying. Plus, I don't have a built-in concealable location like my wife does (purse).

[MrJim]

My wife's Glock never leaves her purse. Especially with all the things going on, I encourage her to take it everywhere she goes. We need to go for target practice again, because it's been a long time.

I don't have a good firearm for carriage, myself. I have a cheap one, but I don't feel it is one I am comfortable carrying. Plus, I don't have a built-in concealable location like my wife does (purse).

"off-body" carry like that is kinda risky anyhow~better to learn how to do it the right way if ya gonna do it at all...

[aReformedPatriot]

:D
Yo TLE, haven't seen ya around;)

I did for a while about 6 years ago but haven't since.


Nice pic, the Preaching Pistolerohttp://bestsmileys.com/shooting1/25.gif

haha.

Yea I've been off doing other things elsewhere in the universe.

[aReformedPatriot]

My wife's Glock never leaves her purse. Especially with all the things going on, I encourage her to take it everywhere she goes. But, the idea of her concealed carry was initially her idea, not mine. We need to go for target practice again, because it's been a long time since she's gone.

I don't have a good firearm for carriage, myself. I have a cheap one, but I don't feel it is one I am comfortable carrying. Plus, I don't have a built-in concealable location like my wife does (purse).

I carry inside the waistband. It's concealed and yet readily accessible. Glad to hear that about your wife.

[rainbowpromises]

I am Canadian so the answer is NO.

[RED that's ME]

I've never used a gun. :P Not saying, I wouldn't either in the future.
There's been some guys at my church who has carried a gun that I'm aware of at times. We have several local policemen that attend my church as well as help work traffic during the morning services & special events.

[Richard]

Hi Red and TLE ! It's definelty been awhile since we have talked!

As for the topic, I don't carry a gun, I don't own a gun, and quite frankily, if people knew I had a gun on my person, they would freak out ;). Just me though!

RichardMac

[SumTinWong]

:D
Yo TLE, haven't seen ya around;)

Pot . . kettle . . . black . . . . nice to see both of you here!

[Ishida]

No, but I have practiced with a broomstick in the church and scared/amazed some kids..

[Willo]

I'm an Australian, so we aren't allowed to carry weapons.

[Tony Merritt]

No I do not carry in church. I do sometimes keep a .38 in the dash of our car. The chief of police goes to my church and would guess he my have one on him. Not sure though. And also....a few years ago I gave my preacher a small handgun he could easily keep hid. He may even carry that on him. lol

Tony

[MrJim]

Pot . . kettle . . . black . . . . nice to see both of you here!
http://bestsmileys.com/tongs/11.gif

[WarEagle]

I don't, but given the shootings in the two churches this week and the Focus on the Family thing, I'm starting to wonder if maybe I should

[Hisbygrace]

I don't own a gun, but if I did I don't think I would carry it in Church.

[HappyChicken]

I have never carried a gun. I'm thankful for the freedom to though. I have always been scared to carry a gun that I would not be able to use it if i needed to, and then someone take it from me and use it on me. It is illegal to conceal a weapon in the state of Indiana. If you wear a gun here, it's suppose to be visible.

[aReformedPatriot]

I have never carried a gun. I'm thankful for the freedom to though. I have always been scared to carry a gun that I would not be able to use it if i needed to, and then someone take it from me and use it on me. It is illegal to conceal a weapon in the state of Indiana. If you wear a gun here, it's suppose to be visible.

I live right below Indiana and it is not illegal to conceal a gun there. You have to have a permit--which is an infringement of your right, but you can do it. I carry a gun in Indiana all the time.

The argument about the gun being taken away from you originated with the anti-gun crowd and while yes, it is possible to take a pistol from someone, most people--quite frankly--won't have the cojones to do so.

There is practical training you can do though. It's not hard and it starts with learning how to shoot effectively.

[DeaconDean]

Greetings everybody. It's been a while, eh?

Given the recent church shootings I'd like to talk about one thing in particular. Firearms and the carrying of weapons. Do you carry in Church?

http://xf0.xanga.com/3fcc200b06332161910686/z121953668.jpg

Naw, it interfers with my BP vest. :D

J/K, no!

God Bless

Till all are one.

[Ephesians4]

No. Just the mere thought of carrying a gun to church says that there's something really, really wrong with the church or our society or both.

[wildthing]

I would answer this but since I'm no longer a Baptist, so I won't...

[HappyChicken]

I live right below Indiana and it is not illegal to conceal a gun there. You have to have a permit--which is an infringement of your right, but you can do it. I carry a gun in Indiana all the time.

The argument about the gun being taken away from you originated with the anti-gun crowd and while yes, it is possible to take a pistol from someone, most people--quite frankly--won't have the cojones to do so.

There is practical training you can do though. It's not hard and it starts with learning how to shoot effectively.

There is a difference in having a permit to carry, and concealing. You cannot legally carry a CONCEALED weapon legally in the state of Indiana, unless you are a part of law enforcement.

I do know how to shoot, I have been shooting guns since i was old enough to safely hold them up. That does not mean though, that I could pull the trigger on another human being.

[HappyChicken]

No. Just the mere thought of carrying a gun to church says that there's something really, really wrong with the church or our society or both.

I agree with you!

[HappyChicken]

OOPS!!! I guess I was wrong!!! I guess you can carry a concealed weapon in Indiana. I just googled it. Sorry for the confusion!

[aReformedPatriot]

OOPS!!! I guess I was wrong!!! I guess you can carry a concealed weapon in Indiana. I just googled it. Sorry for the confusion!

No worries.

[MbiaJc]

No I do not carry in church. I do sometimes keep a .38 in the dash of our car. The chief of police goes to my church and would guess he my have one on him. Not sure though. And also....a few years ago I gave my preacher a small handgun he could easily keep hid. He may even carry that on him. lol

Tony

My youngest son is a Special Agent with the GBI he has his gun on him at all times. Think it is required that all law inforcment carry a Gun at all times. Not sure thoe will ask my son.
Personally I don't approve of guns in Church by anyone!!!!!!

[stone]

I saw the op and am glad i didn't just take a sip of coffee or something, it would have found its way all over my keyboard and monitor! lol

I'm gonna try this op out in another forum. :wave:

[HappyChicken]

I saw the op and am glad i didn't just take a sip of coffee or something, it would have found its way all over my keyboard and monitor! lol

I'm gonna try this op out in another forum. :wave:

I'm sure glad you did not choke or burn yourself (or your computer)!!

[Rhamiel]

I voted, is that ok?
I said no, but I see no reason if it makes you feel safer for you to have a wepon on you.

[PrincetonGuy]

I know the sound of a bullet just missing my head. I know the feeling of having a gun pointed in my face and the feeling of wrestling with a potential assailant who is holding a .357 magnum. And I will never forget the telephone call that I placed to the home of one of the Bible teachers in my church to ask why he didn’t show up and learning that he had been shot to death in another church during the Sunday morning service.

I also know Him in whom I trust, and I do not own a gun or carry one with me anywhere.

[HappyChicken]

Well I sure am glad you did not get shot! And I'm sorry about your Sunday school teacher. How recent was all of this??

[PrincetonGuy]

Well I sure am glad you did not get shot! And I'm sorry about your Sunday school teacher. How recent was all of this??

These things occurred some years ago.

[Maffers]

no and its sad if you think you need to IMO

[aReformedPatriot]

no and its sad if you think you need to IMO

Why? You don't think it is a good idea to take responsibility for one's own safety? That's a sad thing?

Do I think I'll need to my gun to save my life some day? Not really, but I am sure the victims of home invasion didn't think so either. Or those victims at the church that spawned the thread. Or the VA Tech students, etc.

[HappyChicken]

I see nothing wrong with carrying a gun if you feel you need to. I don't think people should carry them in church though! Church is the last place you should need a gun.

[Andy Broadley]

It is illegal to carry a gun in this country

A fact for which I am eternally grateful

[arunma]

Hey Mark, how are you? It's certainly been awhile. Sorry I never catch you on AIM, I've been pretty busy the past half year. Anyway, we should catch up (perhaps in another thread created for such a purpose?).

Anyway, to answer the question, I don't carry in church. I've never owned a gun, actually.

[Maffers]

Why? You don't think it is a good idea to take responsibility for one's own safety? That's a sad thing?

Do I think I'll need to my gun to save my life some day? Not really, but I am sure the victims of home invasion didn't think so either. Or those victims at the church that spawned the thread. Or the VA Tech students, etc.

The point i was trying to make was that i think its sad that you even have to think about needing a gun in church because you would have to think about taking responsibility for your safety in the house of god.....

On the street how ever is a different story.

[HappyChicken]

It is illegal to carry a gun in this country

A fact for which I am eternally grateful

Do criminals access guns in England??? I feel that if they took away the right to carry guns in the US, that criminals would still have them....they have them illegally anyways (most of the time).

[bunced]

Do criminals access guns in EnglandVery very few - the problem with gun crime is near on none existent here - yes, there is a problem in some gang areas of one or two big cities, but we would never have more than about 4 situations a year nationwide where you have someone bring a gun onto a school or a church.

[HappyChicken]

Well that is a blessing!!!

[wildthing]

A true assessment is of UK crime rates are founded at this address http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page1.asp

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend/flawed2.htm

Things are not so rosy in the UK...

[aReformedPatriot]

Do criminals access guns in England??? I feel that if they took away the right to carry guns in the US, that criminals would still have them....they have them illegally anyways (most of the time).

Since the Government of England has confiscated it's citizens firearms, the citizenry has turned to knives. According to a Telegraph article from October, there are 400 cases a week of crimes involving knives.

The fact that people will rob, rape, pillage, and kill is a result of the fall and I for one do not advocate disarming the vast majority of people who will not commit such crimes against the few of their peers who would nor would I enjoy living in England's tyrannical Police State. On another note, let us not forget that per capita, Canada's violent crime rate is higher than it is in the United States. As was England's in the 90's according to the DOJ. All relevant data produced by our FBI, CDC, etc., who study the effects of anti-gun legislation reveal that in absolutely no case does it have an impact on reducing crime, but in fact the datum reveals that the disarmament of citizens actually tends toward a demonstrable increase in violent crime, especially rape. All research you will never hear the anti-gun crowd ever go near. It's for the children, man! For God sakes, think of the Children!

[Don5925]

Hope you all don't terribly mind a Catholic stopping by. I heard of this thread and wanted to vote. Yes I do carry in church, or at least most of the time. It is weird world and Christians of all stripes have been and will be targets. If you are willing to defend your brothers and sisters sometimes then you should be willing to do it all of the time. A warrior cannot go into battle if not properly equipped.

Also, we had a thread a few days back in OBOB on the role of the Christian warrior that might interest some of you.

Best wishes and Merry Christmas.

Don

[bunced]

A true assessment is of UK crime rates are founded at this address http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page1.asp

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend/flawed2.htm

Things are not so rosy in the UK...Not to say you copy and pasted from past posts but that first link has been invalid for several months now from looking at it . . .

[wildthing]

Not to say you copy and pasted from past posts but that first link has been invalid for several months now from looking at it . . .

It worked fine last night, data it showed is not invalid. what it showed that you had an increase in assults and rapes You still have gun crimes but not in numbers that you said. Your country seem to have increase in black market firearms. What it all shows is that your country has punished the legal owners of fire arms, people who have no intention of ever commiting a crime were punsied for the crimes of others. This is bad policy.


In reguards from copying and pasteing from other post. As a researcher I take this as insult. Copying and pasteing is lazy man way of doing things!

A quetion for you. What would happen to me as visitor to your country if someone came up to me with a knife intending to mug me. In steed of getting my money he was given a beating.

[bunced]

Then I apologise, but it wasn't working this morning :)

A quetion for you. What would happen to me as visitor to your country if someone came up to me with a knife intending to mug me. In steed of getting my money he was given a beating.Providing you used reasonable force - ie, not killing him when he was running away for example - the law is on your side

[wildthing]

Then I apologise, but it wasn't working this morning :)

Providing you used reasonable force - ie, not killing him when he was running away for example - the law is on your side

Your forgiven! Yeah your right about it not working well this morning. But there was a link that you could see the current data. I hate it went things like that happen.

I was in Soho in London when I had a gentleman thinking that nutty American Tourist would be easy. After an exchange of blows he was not really running away, perhaps more like crawling away. Running or crawling there was no use of going on with him and I left the area.

[edb19]

While I have great respect for the 2nd Amendment (and would have a very, very hard time voting for someone who wanted to repeal it) I have never owned a gun.

If I did - the last place I would take one is to church. I attend church to worship the Lord, period. If God, in His infinite wisdom, chose that to be the place where I leave this world to join Him - so be it.

Given Jesus the Christ's admonition to Peter in the Garden of Gethsemane, given His admonition to us to turn the other cheek - I can find no justification for a confessing Christian to bring a weapon of any sort into a church.

My two cents,
edie

[illusionaltears]

where i live there is no reaseon tho i do have one. i pray for the ones who do have to carry in church. no one should have to!

[Don5925]

As a guest here I want to preface everything by stating that I in no way wish to argue against any Baptist practice or belief, I am merely explaining from where it is I am coming from.

Back in the early history of the Church, an author(maybe Ambrose, but I can't remember for sure) considered what was meant by non-violence and concluded that if Christians did not defend themselves there would be no Christian community left to spread the word.

The Church, in any form, is a target of those who hate us for living free and loving the Lord. Those are legally able, I believe, should be willing to defend her.

I have attached a link to an essay by LtC. Dave Grossman that has been around for a while, that discusses the warrior mindset for those interested and have not seen it. It is a bit lengthy.


http://www.blackwaterusa.com/btw2004/articles/0726sheep.html

[fireman1173005]

no,

But the church were I used to serve came up with a great policy and it didn't require guns.

A list of men signed up to do security they would take turns. On your day you set in a chair in the entry of the church and you have a cordless phone and they could lock the door if needed and call 911. Also only the main doors to the church were kept unlocked.

[aReformedPatriot]

no,

But the church were I used to serve came up with a great policy and it didn't require guns.

A list of men signed up to do security they would take turns. On your day you set in a chair in the entry of the church and you have a cordless phone and they could lock the door if needed and call 911. Also only the main doors to the church were kept unlocked.

Those are certainly helpful, but if someone came in and started shooting up the service, how many unarmed security guards and congregants might get blasted before the police arrive? They have a really bad habit of getting there after the fact.

[fireman1173005]

Those are certainly helpful, but if someone came in and started shooting up the service, how many unarmed security guards and congregants might get blasted before the police arrive? They have a really bad habit of getting there after the fact.

True, but we have to draw the line somewhere, do we want armed security guards standing at our doors, some may but I don't. I don't want to be murdered but if I have to be a martyr for my Lord then so be it.

Brian

[aReformedPatriot]

True, but we have to draw the line somewhere, do we want armed security guards standing at our doors, some may but I don't. I don't want to be murdered but if I have to be a martyr for my Lord then so be it.

Brian

I think armed security at a church is a wee bit of overkill. However, I feel it is incumbent upon a man to take up the responsibility for his own safety. I believe there is a time and place to lay down your life and I think there is a time and place to fight for your life. All of it under the sovereignty of God.

[bunced]

I don't think the place to fight for your life is in Church personally. If we look at Church history, the Church has often been a place which made a point of forbidding the carrying of weapons on its premises

[MrJim]

I think armed security at a church is a wee bit of overkill. However, I feel it is incumbent upon a man to take up the responsibility for his own safety. I believe there is a time and place to lay down your life and I think there is a time and place to fight for your life. All of it under the sovereignty of God.

...be interesting to parse that last sentence in reference to the previous one;)

[aReformedPatriot]

...be interesting to parse that last sentence in reference to the previous one;)

Why? God's sovereignty and man's responsibility work in conjunction. Whether you die that's God's will.

I personally don't think it's greater to die in a church service than it is to die in a pizza parlor. If so, would it be sinful to run out of church building during a shooting? Either way, a preserving role is being undertaken.

For myself there are times I would lay my life down without fighting back. I figure I'll know it when the time comes as there is no sense in speculating.

[MrJim]

Why? God's sovereignty and man's responsibility work in conjunction. Whether you die that's God's will.

I personally don't think it's greater to die in a church service than it is to die in a pizza parlor. If so, would it be sinful to run out of church building during a shooting? Either way, a preserving role is being undertaken.

For myself there are times I would lay my life down without fighting back. I figure I'll know it when the time comes as there is no sense in speculating.
It looks like you may have been sucked into a "works" security here:P

[aReformedPatriot]

It looks like you may have been sucked into a "works" security here:P

I would say that's absurd and a misunderstanding of what's being read. Where do you see that?

[MrJim]

I would say that's absurd and a misunderstanding of what's being read. Where do you see that?

Just bustin'~~remember the 5%:D:D:D

~did you ever get any rifles? The Scout rifles by Savage & Ruger are gettin' my itch up...

[jsimms615]

Interesting picture. Next, you'll have a t-shirt that says something like, "Pay attention to the sermon or else punk."

[California Dreamin']

No.

[StrawberryShortcake2]

No, it's rare that a Church shooting happens in the U.S.

[PaladinGirl]

Nope. I don't even own a firearm and if I did, I would not take it with me to church.

[TwistTim]

I don't have a firearm but I do have a nice knife with a long blade, sometimes I'll carry that with me.... if I had a side arm that was small enough, I would.... given the increasing stories of violence in churches around the world.... As I've said in other discussions, I'll die for my faith if it means a witness to the killer, but I will not die stupidly in a preventable method.

[TexasSky]

Greetings everybody. It's been a while, eh?

Given the recent church shootings I'd like to talk about one thing in particular. Firearms and the carrying of weapons. Do you carry in Church?

http://xf0.xanga.com/3fcc200b06332161910686/z121953668.jpg
Goodness I hope people don't!
With children everywhere a disaster is certain to happen!

Besides, if a gunman enters a church, a lot of congregants pulling out weapons too, and firing is just going to cause a lot more harm and deaths. Ricochettes in a church building, with all the hard wood for pews and things, could kill so many innocents!

[TwistTim]

Goodness I hope people don't!
With children everywhere a disaster is certain to happen!

Besides, if a gunman enters a church, a lot of congregates pulling out weapons too, and firing is just going to cause a lot more harm and deaths. Ricochets in a church building, with all the hard wood for pews and things, could kill so many innocents!
Children.... all the more reason to carry protection, a gunman who goes into a church doesn't care who he kills, in fact he'll kill children to make the adults fear him.....

Only if you fire blind and without looking where you are firing at will your shots go wild, this is why you train with a new gun for a few hours at least so you know how to use it....

trust me if I were a gun man and I saw eight people go for their guns I'd think twice about opening fire unless I didn't care about my life.... that would be the equivalent of suicide by cop... not something your gonna do unless your mentally deranged enough, and you shouldn't have gotten a gun to begin with....

Guns make it safer, not more dangerous

as far as the ricochet or splinter concerns.... while valid, they are on the paranoid side unless your dealing with untrained men and women with guns.... the average gun owner knows his/her weapon well enough to know how to point and shoot with other gun shots going off, or not fire.... only a state of panic would cause that.... and you must have old pews if they're gonna fly apart from one shot.....

[KarrieTex]

No, I don't carry though I know many who do. My church has their own armed security that are near enough the pulpit to protect it.

We also lock the doors the minute my pastor starts to preach.

Also, because we have many high profil political figures that are there at times secret service and or the Texas Rangers are there.

[bunced]

Personally I think it's a sad state of affairs when you have to lock the doors when the pastor preaches - the nature of the church by definition has an element of risk about it. By all means take reasonable precautions against such a risk, but I don't think either preventing people from being able to get into the building or having armed security is a reasonable precaution to take. I still feel churches should be weapon free zones by principle

[KarrieTex]

Personally I think it's a sad state of affairs when you have to lock the doors when the pastor preaches - the nature of the church by definition has an element of risk about it. By all means take reasonable precautions against such a risk, but I don't think either preventing people from being able to get into the building or having armed security is a reasonable precaution to take. I still feel churches should be weapon free zones by principle
My pastor is Ed Young and has death threats and an armed man approach the pulpit during a sermon.

Sitting there on a Sunday morning can be the Governor of my state, Senators, Congressman, and the President so I have no problems with it.

We also have a private school with children from very wealthy families that have been subjected to death threats and attempted kidnappings. Armed security at a high profile church is a good thing.

[bunced]

Ah, well, given the complicated situation for the people involved, then yes, obviously armed security is appropriate. I would argue that it isn't appropriate for the church though in its role as a Church - by the very nature of the calling, there is an element of risk involved, and I don't think the church should be in a position where it is protecting itself with firearms

By the way, sorry to sound ignorant, but who is Ed Young?

[KarrieTex]

Ah, well, given the complicated situation for the people involved, then yes, obviously armed security is appropriate. I would argue that it isn't appropriate for the church though in its role as a Church - by the very nature of the calling, there is an element of risk involved, and I don't think the church should be in a position where it is protecting itself with firearms

By the way, sorry to sound ignorant, but who is Ed Young?
No worries there. You aren't from the States and probably not Southern Baptist.

Ed Young pastors one of the largest SBC church's in the states. He was the President of the Southern Convention for some years. He is also a noted author. Also, because Houston has several known political persons here, their churches are open to be targeted.

Ed doesn't mince words and will tell you like it is. He is vocal in God's views on sexuality, abortion, immorality and so on.

He also takes our church twice a year to the Holy Land where he will preach a full sermon. We have had threats from Muslim groups and extremist Jewish groups.

I say this not to brag but to explain why it's needed.

[bunced]

Thanks for filling me in :)