Visited a Lutheran service

[NoMoreHopelessness]

As suggested by many of you, we have today visited a service in a confesional Lutheran church, the SELK in Germany - we live in the UK but are in Germany in the moment .

It was definitely a new experience. :liturgy::crosseo:

Do not know what to make of it yet. I see your point when you spoke of the Gospel being proclaimed but for someone like us being used to :clap::amen::D it is very, very formal. On the other hand of course we do nothing about congregrational life, we have just seen the service.

It had one BIG advantage though: It was brief!! not like a modern, non-dem service going on for hours. I really liked that.

[porterross]

Formality is synomous with reverence for us. That doesn't mean you have to wear a tuxedo. :D

How wonderful that you were touched by the Gospel. :hug: :pray:

[DaSeminarian]

As suggested by many of you, we have today visited a service in a confesional Lutheran church, the SELK in Germany - we live in the UK but are in Germany in the moment .

It was definitely a new experience. :liturgy::crosseo:

Do not know what to make of it yet. I see your point when you spoke of the Gospel being proclaimed but for someone like us being used to :clap::amen::D it is very, very formal. On the other hand of course we do nothing about congregrational life, we have just seen the service.

It had one BIG advantage though: It was brief!! not like a modern, non-dem service going on for hours. I really liked that.


The one thing that you will find with most Lutheran services is that it follows a fairly tight liturgy and that usually you are out within an hour.

[Tofferer]

I love the liturgy, it helps to focus upon what Christ has done for us at the cross and continues to do through our baptism and holy communion. God's forgiveness is awesome.

[Ukrainia]

As a poster before me said, Lutherans really want the focus to be on God. We don't help convert ourselves - that is the Holy Spirit's work. And we we don't save ourselves - that was Christ's work on the cross.

That is why we also try to stay away from giving our emotions too large a role in the church service. Being joyful because of what God has done for us is a good thing - we are all for that. But many churches give overimportance to emotion and to what we do. They preach that God is great and that we should be happy which is fine, but it doesn't emphasize the cross and what Jesus has done for us. Jesus died because of we are constantly sinning. That realization that we are so sinful, and that apart from God nothing good comes from us should more reliant on God in our lives. When we see how badly we sin, then we truly realize how great of a Savior Jesus is.

If you want an in depth, Biblically based view at why Lutherans worship the way they do, try reading The Fire and the Staff. If you search for it on amazon.com you can find reviews for it. I'd post a link, but apparently I need to post more before I earn that privilege.

[filosofer]

Ukrainia, welcome to the board!!

Can you tell us a little about yourself?

[Ukrainia]

Ukrainia, welcome to the board!!

Can you tell us a little about yourself?


I’d be happy to.

I’m a junior in college - at a public university in Wisconsin (go Badgers - hopefully that hint will make it pretty easy to guess which one.) However, since all of my schooling before that came at a Lutheran grade school and a Lutheran High School (WELS) I do find myself missing the daily chapel services that went along way towards strengthening my faith.

Probably the most interesting thing about my church life is that I’ve been to Ukraine twice to help teach vacation Bible school. My first trip was during high school and the last one was this past summer. Obviously helping teach VBS was very rewarding, but it was also fun getting to know the people and to get a chance to experience a different culture.

Other than that my life isn’t too exciting. These last few weeks I’ve been not studying for exams. I am ready to spend Christmas with my family as soon as possible.
I hope that helps.

[RadMan]

Welcome Ukrainia. We seem to be getting more WELS people on here and that is good.

[NoMoreHopelessness]

I love the liturgy, it helps to focus upon what Christ has done for us at the cross and continues to do through our baptism and holy communion. God's forgiveness is awesome.

I know and I did like the content of the liturgy. It just did not seem very lively and somehow we felt the congregation to be a bit passive. The service seemed to depend very much on the pastor.

But those are of course very subjective thoughts and obviously I cannot really tell. I have only been there once. I guess it also differs from congregation to congregation. In two weeks time I will be in England for the week-end and I will attend a service in a Lutheran church there. Looking forward to that.

[DaRev]

I know and I did like the content of the liturgy. It just did not seem very lively and somehow we felt the congregation to be a bit passive. The service seemed to depend very much on the pastor.

That depends on the liturgy used. The more formal liturgies do involve the congregation more than the less formal.

[SobriaInebrietas]

That depends on the liturgy used. The more formal liturgies do involve the congregation more than the less formal.

The congregation that I am hoping to visit soon (LCMS), has two Sunday morning services; Are many Lutheran churches like this, where they offer a more traditional service and then a more contemporary service, or am I mistaken about why they have two services in the morning? Why is this done?

Thanks!

[DaRev]

The congregation that I am hoping to visit soon (LCMS), has two Sunday morning services; Are many Lutheran churches like this, where they offer a more traditional service and then a more contemporary service, or am I mistaken about why they have two services in the morning? Why is this done?

Thanks!

Those congregations that do have contemporary services normally do have a liturgical service as well.

[ctay]

I don't know how often this happens but one of the church's in the area offer 2 traditional services and a contemporary service sunday morning, they have one saturday evening too. They have an average of 375 a week attending and if they had one service everyone wouldn't fit in the church, it doesn't hold that many so they do have to have 2 services anyway.

[NordicLutheran]

The LCMS should not be having contemporary mumbo jumbo. I have never been to one nor will I ever. The divine service is the only proper way to conduct holy communion. I will be attending seminary in 4 years and when I am ordained I will not take part in any contemporary worship service of any kind. Why be a Missouri Synod congregation if you want watered down services?

[LutheranChick]

I’d be happy to.

I’m a junior in college - at a public university in Wisconsin (go Badgers - hopefully that hint will make it pretty easy to guess which one.) However, since all of my schooling before that came at a Lutheran grade school and a Lutheran High School (WELS) I do find myself missing the daily chapel services that went along way towards strengthening my faith.

Probably the most interesting thing about my church life is that I’ve been to Ukraine twice to help teach vacation Bible school. My first trip was during high school and the last one was this past summer. Obviously helping teach VBS was very rewarding, but it was also fun getting to know the people and to get a chance to experience a different culture.

Other than that my life isn’t too exciting. These last few weeks I’ve been not studying for exams. I am ready to spend Christmas with my family as soon as possible.
I hope that helps.


Welcome! I'll look forward to seeing more of your posts! Good to have another WELS person -I belong to ELS myself, and am quite in the minority. There's only one other that's been here from ELS, and I haven't heard from him lately. Where is your home church?

[Ukrainia]

Welcome! I'll look forward to seeing more of your posts! Good to have another WELS person -I belong to ELS myself, and am quite in the minority. There's only one other that's been here from ELS, and I haven't heard from him lately. Where is your home church?

My home church is in Waukesha WI. near Milwaukee but while I'm in Madison I go to the church there.

The organization that puts together the Ukraine mission trips - Thoughts of Faith - is actually ELS along with many of the people I went with. Thanks for your greeting.

[SobriaInebrietas]

The LCMS should not be having contemporary mumbo jumbo. I have never been to one nor will I ever. The divine service is the only proper way to conduct holy communion. I will be attending seminary in 4 years and when I am ordained I will not take part in any contemporary worship service of any kind. Why be a Missouri Synod congregation if you want watered down services?

What exactly is the difference?

The only two kinds of services I have been to have been Pentecostal/Charismatic (the church I was born into) which are pretty extreme, and then the Reformed services that I have been going to at my current church for the last three years, which are very traditional - pretty rigidly structured with primary focus on the pulpit (with singing of traditional hymns accomponied by piano).

I am not quite sure if this is why this church I want to visit has two services, since I haven't actually been there yet. I was just assuming since I have heard that some Lutheran churches do this.

[DaRev]

I will be attending seminary in 4 years and when I am ordained I will not take part in any contemporary worship service of any kind.

Not to discourage you in any way, but...
That will depend highly on your call. Don't think that you will be able to go into a congregation that is doing CW and start changing things right away. I was thrust into a situation where that was the case (motivated by the elders here) and it was disastrous.

[LutheranChick]

My home church is in Waukesha WI. near Milwaukee but while I'm in Madison I go to the church there.

The organization that puts together the Ukraine mission trips - Thoughts of Faith - is actually ELS along with many of the people I went with. Thanks for your greeting.

I bet you met the Smiths, then - Michael and family? His father is our Pastor - Kin Smith

[synger]

As a poster before me said, Lutherans really want the focus to be on God. We don't help convert ourselves - that is the Holy Spirit's work. And we we don't save ourselves - that was Christ's work on the cross.

That is why we also try to stay away from giving our emotions too large a role in the church service. Being joyful because of what God has done for us is a good thing - we are all for that. But many churches give overimportance to emotion and to what we do. They preach that God is great and that we should be happy which is fine, but it doesn't emphasize the cross and what Jesus has done for us. Jesus died because of we are constantly sinning. That realization that we are so sinful, and that apart from God nothing good comes from us should more reliant on God in our lives. When we see how badly we sin, then we truly realize how great of a Savior Jesus is.

If you want an in depth, Biblically based view at why Lutherans worship the way they do, try reading The Fire and the Staff. If you search for it on amazon.com you can find reviews for it. I'd post a link, but apparently I need to post more before I earn that privilege.
I second the recommendation for The Fire and the Staff. I read it last year when we were seriously considering becoming Lutheran, and it really helped us understand the place of liturgy. Neither I nor my husband come from a liturgical background, so it was very useful.

[synger]

The congregation that I am hoping to visit soon (LCMS), has two Sunday morning services; Are many Lutheran churches like this, where they offer a more traditional service and then a more contemporary service, or am I mistaken about why they have two services in the morning? Why is this done?

Thanks!
Our church offers two services each Sunday. Both are liturgical. We have two services because we have too many people for one service.

[PreachersWife2004]

Ukrainia, if I may be so bold, what elementary and high school did you attend? Being WELS and having family in WI, I might be familiar with it. I would've attended a Lutheran High School here in Michigan but the only one close was Michigan Lutheran Seminary, and my parents just didn't think I was ready for boarding school - not to mention the fact that my brother totally blew it.

Anyhoo...to the OP. While Lutheran services are generally not "happy-clappy" the greatest joy can be found in them. Even the hymns share the great news, and there are times in church where I do get a little emotional because the word is touching me. I hope you continue to attend - you'll get used to the "formality" and pretty soon it won't seem so formal.

:hug:

[NordicLutheran]

I will not be apart of contemporary crap when I am called to a congregation. I've heard the congregation interviews you along with your call, and I would make it known that I would not. Hopefully the seminary knows this and can guide my call to a confessional congregation.

[filosofer]

I will not be apart of contemporary crap when I am called to a congregation. I've heard the congregation interviews you along with your call, and I would make it known that I would not. Hopefully the seminary knows this and can guide my call to a confessional congregation.

Just a thought. Perhaps God wants to call you such a congregation for the purpose of consistently teaching and leading them (over a period of years) to appreciate the liturgy.

You have time to think this through, but remember that it is God's call, not yours.




... from one who has learned over the past 35+ years that God can do things through circumstances that we never would have asked for nor expected. He is a pretty big God. :)

[PreachersWife2004]

While I'm not a big fan of contemporary worship, I have seen contemporary services done that were very liturgical.

My husband doesn't like them either, but if he is called to a congregation that does them, he will enter the call with an open mind (if he accepts the call anyway) and take it from there. If the CW services aren't theologically sound, then you bet he will take a stand in the matter.

[DaRev]

I will not be apart of contemporary crap when I am called to a congregation. I've heard the congregation interviews you along with your call, and I would make it known that I would not. Hopefully the seminary knows this and can guide my call to a confessional congregation.

The only one's I know of who were interviewed prior to their first call from seminary were those who were engaged in some special ministry situation. The fact is that we have no say and no idea where our first call will be until Call Day when they call your names and hand you your first call. And it is strongly inadvisible to turn down your first call because you may not get another one. You really have little to no say in the matter. And don't even think about saying "I don't want such and such" because you are likely to get just that.

And I'm still curious as to why you have a monstrance next to your CF character.

[DaSeminarian]

The only one's I know of who were interviewed prior to their first call from seminary were those who were engaged in some special ministry situation. The fact is that we have no say and no idea where our first call will be until Call Day when they call your names and hand you your first call. And it is strongly inadvisible to turn down your first call because you may not get another one. You really have little to no say in the matter. And don't even think about saying "I don't want such and such" because you are likely to get just that.

And I'm still curious as to why you have a monstrance next to your CF character.


For me that is the beauty of call day. I look forward to seeing where God thinks I will do the most for his kingdom. We kind of get a small taste of that with vicarage but it is still not the same.

[DaSeminarian]

Just a thought. Perhaps God wants to call you such a congregation for the purpose of consistently teaching and leading them (over a period of years) to appreciate the liturgy.

You have time to think this through, but remember that it is God's call, not yours.




... from one who has learned over the past 35+ years that God can do things through circumstances that we never would have asked for nor expected. He is a pretty big God. :)


And he's pretty awesome. He reigns from heaven above with wisdom power and love... ;)

[DaRev]

I remember when I first started seminary, many of us couldn't understand the facial expressions of the fourth year guys. We didn't know whether or not the seminary experience was responsible for their apparent perpetual scowls. But once we returned from vicarage, we understood completely! :D

[DaSeminarian]

I remember when I first started seminary, many of us couldn't understand the facial expressions of the fourth year guys. We didn't know whether or not the seminary experience was responsible for their apparent perpetual scowls. But once we returned from vicarage, we understood completely! :D


Let me guess... You come back from Vicarage all pumped up and really wanting to get into your own parish, but instead you are stuck here in school for another whole year. Is that close?

[DaRev]

Let me guess... You come back from Vicarage all pumped up and really wanting to get into your own parish, but instead you are stuck here in school for another whole year. Is that close?

Close. ;)

[LutheranChick]

Let me guess... You come back from Vicarage all pumped up and really wanting to get into your own parish, but instead you are stuck here in school for another whole year. Is that close?

So LCMS sends the student back to school after vicarage? How long is your vicarage?

In the ELS, the student vicars for 1 year - that is their last year of seminary, and then they get their first assignment as a pastor (for 1 yr) - they have no choice as to where they will go, I don't believe - the Seminary tries to put them where they feel will be the best 'fit'.

[DaRev]

So LCMS sends the student back to school after vicarage? How long is your vicarage?

In the ELS, the student vicars for 1 year - that is their last year of seminary, and then they get their first assignment as a pastor (for 1 yr) - they have no choice as to where they will go, I don't believe - the Seminary tries to put them where they feel will be the best 'fit'.

Vicarage is typically 12 months and normally occurs during the third year of seminary. The reason for this is there are a few classes that Vicarage is a prerequisite for.
Now, there are exceptions to this. In the Alternate Route (non-degree) program, the student attends classes for 2 years and then is placed in his congregation first as a vicar or 1 year and then is ordained. There is also what is called "convertible vicarages" where an MDiv student will do three years at seminary and then be placed at his first call, first as a vicar for one year and then ordained. Convertible vicarages are rare and require a specific set of circumstances. The norm for MDiv students is vicarage durinb the 3rd year.

[PreachersWife2004]

WELS vicars also serve during their third year of seminary.

In rare cases, we have seminary students who get ordained early so they can serve an emergency call, but I haven't heard of that happening lately.

My husband loved his vicar year. Said he learned way more in that one year than he could've hoped to learn in seminary. He had a good teacher, apparently!

[LutheranChick]

Thank you for your replies :) It is interesting to hear how other Synods' seminaries conduct their training.

[NordicLutheran]

The only one's I know of who were interviewed prior to their first call from seminary were those who were engaged in some special ministry situation. The fact is that we have no say and no idea where our first call will be until Call Day when they call your names and hand you your first call. And it is strongly inadvisible to turn down your first call because you may not get another one. You really have little to no say in the matter. And don't even think about saying "I don't want such and such" because you are likely to get just that.

And I'm still curious as to why you have a monstrance next to your CF character.
It's just I have seen my Pastor struggle for years to get weekly communion at a pretty confessional church. I could handle that, but having to show people that a contemporary service is bad...that would be years upon years. I guess if you have to accept the call even if the parish does have a contemporary service, I would. It seems like it would be crushing to go through so much education to be a Pastor and end up with a praise band. I'm gagging right now just thinking about it. Oh and the monstrance looks cool, just assume theres nothing in it :).

[DaRev]

It's just I have seen my Pastor struggle for years to get weekly communion at a pretty confessional church. I could handle that, but having to show people that a contemporary service is bad...that would be years upon years. I guess if you have to accept the call even if the parish does have a contemporary service, I would. It seems like it would be crushing to go through so much education to be a Pastor and end up with a praise band. I'm gagging right now just thinking about it. Oh and the monstrance looks cool, just assume theres nothing in it :).

What's worse is to go through seminary and then have your church members tell you that what you learn at seminary is wrong and you have to do it their way. :doh: Talk about clashes.

[filosofer]

It's just I have seen my Pastor struggle for years to get weekly communion at a pretty confessional church. I could handle that, but having to show people that a contemporary service is bad...that would be years upon years. I guess if you have to accept the call even if the parish does have a contemporary service, I would. It seems like it would be crushing to go through so much education to be a Pastor and end up with a praise band. I'm gagging right now just thinking about it.

Actually continuing Bible study and catechetical instruction with reference to worship, it can happen in 2-3 years. On the larger scale of time, that is relatively short.

[NordicLutheran]

Well I can see some hope even if I do get a call to a Church with a contemporary worship service. Sweet! Does the LCMS view the Divine Service as the only way to adminster the Sacrament of the Altar? If not what are the guidelines for a contemporary service, and can we hope for a future with no contemporary services?

[rockytrails]

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