Now I KNOW what happens when I die!

[Janice702]

Death seems really scary especially when beyond it is so enshrowded in mistery... but once you see it clearly from the Bible it seems, well more comforting to know what lies ahead. To actually understand that "Ok, so this is what death really is"!

I loved it because it left me... comforted! I believe in the Bible so I trust what I saw here.

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkzCladlPw0

Feedback.

God bless!

Janice

[Sleaker]

There seems to be a very very huge distinction which the vido fails to address. That is: There seems to be a very huge difference between being 'dead in Christ' and dead. And there also seems to be a huge difference between dead meaning 'asleep' as in awaiting for the final day when Christ returns, and the dead we see in Ecclesiastes as in the 'death of the soul'

It's possibly describing two different deaths. The first death being the death of the soul and the second death being the death of the body. People who believe in Christ have already died once, it says that we are dead to sin and the law.. And that we are a new creation in Christ. So I might suggest that we have no fear of the death of the soul.

Any thoughts?

[SoundCard]

The second death refers to the souls of those who were unrepentant upon death and died in their bodies with their sins still a burden upon them. The second death is the lake of fire, which is mentioned in Revelations, as well as Matthew I think.

[Sleaker]

The second death refers to the souls of those who were unrepentant upon death and died in their bodies with their sins still a burden upon them. The second death is the lake of fire, which is mentioned in Revelations, as well as Matthew I think.

ahh yes. But I think that Jesus was more likely giving a picture the people would understand when he uses different words to describe 'hell'. I mean he called it Hades, Lake of Fire, gehenna? and Sheol?

I think the video may have a good interpretation of 'death of the soul' when it suggests that to dust we will return and like breath return to God. But I'm still unsure.

[Cris413]

IMHO I think this is another fine example of fitting God into our understanding...placing Him into our terms of dimensionality.

We should also consider there is a difference for those who died before the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ...and those after...

..as well as previously mentioned...those who die that are in Christ...and those who die that are not.

[Janice702]

I couldn't really find anything to argue with when I saw the clip, it's all biblically referenced. Honostly it made me happy, but I'm down right surprized that no one else seems to be :s

Janice

[IisJustMe]

The video pushes its makers' interpretation of the last days, ignoring passages confirming a Pre-Tribulation Rapture (which is whole different subject I won't deal with here except to say I believe the producers of this video are wrong in their post-trib reasoning) and would have been better off simply dealing with death and letting it go at that. The producers ignore a couple key passages and badly misinterpret another that give indication of instant presence with the Lord upon passing from this world.

They do not deal with:: Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord -- for we walk by faith, not by sight -- we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. (II Corinthians 5:5-9)

Also, the self-serving statement that there is a misplaced comma in Luke 23:43 is blatantly bad interpretation. For one thing, there are no commas in the original Greek, these are English constructs. The word in verse 43 translated "today" is the Greek semeron and it means "this very day" [my emphasis added] which disproves their claim that it means Jesus was saying "I tell you this today ..." Why would He need to say that? The thief was right there beside Him, hearing Him. He knew when he was being told this. Their claim is nonsense..

The truth is, God's ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. This video attempts to interpret death and the last days with human understanding, and it is obvious we cannot hope to understand God if we limit Him to thinking as we think. This is the single greatest cause of bad doctrine and poor biblical interpretation in the world today.

My feeling, though it makes no sense in human understanding, is that when we pass from this world spiritually, we transcend the plane of time and space to which our bodies have been limited in this life. God is, after all, above time and space. We should try to comprehend that He looks down on Moses in the desert "right now" just as He looks down on us "right now" and even as He looks down on the last person born in the thousand year reign "right now." It makes sense that those who die and go into His presence (just as Paul teaches in the II Corinthians passage above) must also transcend this spacial plane on which we, in this life, are trapped. Some go for judgment and are dispatched to hell for eternity. Some go into heaven to be with the Eternal Father. From our earthly plane, they are dead and buried. From their new perspective transcending space and time, they are in our future, judged and receiving their reward, or their condemnation.

No, it doesn't make sense in human concept. But the last two thirds of this video doesn't make any sense in light of biblical teaching either. As I said, they should have dealt with death from a reassuring viewpoint, instead of trying to foist their bad eschatology onto others.

[Sleaker]

Some go for judgment and are dispatched to hell for eternity. Some go into heaven to be with the Eternal Father. From our earthly plane, they are dead and buried. From their new perspective transcending space and time, they are in our future, judged and receiving their reward, or their condemnation.

Just question: What is heaven, and what is hell?

[IisJustMe]

Just question: What is heaven, and what is hell?Seriously???

Heaven is the abode of God and the promised dwelling place of the believer, forever.

Hell is the place of condemnation and the promised dwelling place of those who rejected Christ in this life, forever.

[Janice702]

The point is Death and Hell are not forever! What more reassuring message would you like?

Why should people be deceived when the Bible has already made this subject so clear.

"In light of biblical teaching" it was all backed up with verses hehe what else would make it biblically sound? :)

God bless.

Janice

[Cris413]

The point is Death and Hell are not forever! What more reassuring message would you like?

Why should people be deceived when the Bible has already made this subject so clear.

"In light of biblical teaching" it was all backed up with verses hehe what else would make it biblically sound? :)

God bless.

Janice
Snake handling can be backed up with Biblical verses too...but I certainly wouldn't build doctrine around it and try to prove my faith by walking through boxes of snakes...

...there must be context in the full measure of God's word.

I could build doctrine by cherry picking verses and put them in some sort of order to pretty much make any point I choose...lots do...which could be why there is so much division.

I do believe Universalists have the same sort of concept...that there is no eternal damnation...


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[SoundCard]

Ugh, please not another Universalist debate. That "There is no hell!" thread still haunts my dreams. (not really). But seriously, it just kept dragging on and on ... you get the idea.

[IisJustMe]

The point is Death and Hell are not forever!Would you care to explain this statement???

[Floatingaxe]

The video purveys a misunderstanding of what Paradise is. It was not heaven. It was the place where the righteous dead had been dwelling up until that time when Jesus went to release them as their long awaited Messiah!

When people die now, they see God, just as Paul said:

2 Corinthians 5:8
Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.

[BGMCFAR]

The bodies we have in this life is just a vessel God gives to live in while we are here. and it says in scripture it says we shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye we will be givin a new body and a new name . When a person dies the soul goes back to God the physical body back to the dust of the earth. Oh yes there is a hell we live in it. and there is a heaven Jesus told us I go to prepare a place for and if i go to prepare a place for you I will come again to receive unto myself that where I am there you maybe also. What a wounderful promise from our Lord and I claim that promise from the Lord.

[IisJustMe]

The video purveys a misunderstanding of what Paradise is. It was not heaven. It was the place where the righteous dead had been dwelling up until that time when Jesus went to release them as their long awaited Messiah!This is a common misconception. Where it came from, no one seems to be able to explain. In fact, "Paradise," "Heaven" and "Abraham's Bosom" are all the same place -- heaven, God's dwelling place, the location of His throne.

[Floatingaxe]

This is a common misconception. Where it came from, no one seems to be able to explain. In fact, "Paradise," "Heaven" and "Abraham's Bosom" are all the same place -- heaven, God's dwelling place, the location of His throne.


Abraham's Bosom was where He was waiting for Jesus the Messiah, along with all OT saints. Jesus went to them to release them to heaven after His death. They were given the glorious promise of seeing their Messiah!

Jesus never went to heaven until His Ascension.

[IisJustMe]

Abraham's Bosom was where He was waiting for Jesus the Messiah, along with all OT saints. Jesus went to them to release them to heaven after His death. They were given the glorious promise of seeing their Messiah!

Jesus never went to heaven until His Ascension.I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no biblical basis to support any of that. "Abraham's bosom" is heaven. If you study Hebrew venacular, and Jewish tradition, you will see that it is as I said -- all three of those terms are interchangeable for "heaven." As I said before, your contention that Jesus "never went to heaven until His ascension" is belied by the use of the word semeron in Luke 23:43. It means "this very day."

[BigNorsk]

I wouldn't suggest using that site to gain biblical truth.

For instance they deny the Trinity, saying that Jesus is Lord and not God. They quote the works of Ellen G. White as authoritative as well.

Basically, while they claim to be nondenominational, they are a splinter group of Seventh Day Adventists, as can be seen in their statement of beliefs. It says in part:

Today, there is not a single church or denomination which adheres to the above Bible-based statement of beliefs in its entirety. At one time, in the second half of the nineteen century and early twentieth century, the Seventh-day Adventist Church believed and upheld all of the above beliefs. Sadly this is no longer the case. They have done away with beliefs 1 and 2, and replaced them with the Roman Catholic Trinity doctrine. In addition they have watered down many of the other beliefs, to make the teachings of the church more acceptable and appealing to Christians of other denominations.

As for soul sleep, it really doesn't fit the bible. For instance we have the example of Moses, who is clearly said to have died, yet Moses returns with Elijah and stands with Jesus. Certainly, Moses was not asleep. Deu 34:5; Mark 9:4

We also have the reference to Jesus preaching to the dead. They were not asleep. 1 Peter 3:19

Note also the souls of the martyrs were already in heaven before the judgement. Rev 6 9-10.

Note also in 1 Thes 4:14, Jesus returns with the faithful who have died. They are already with him.

And Phil 1:21-23 lays out that to die is to be with Christ.

Hope that helps. I would suggest staying away from that site.

Marv

[stone]

Hello,

This is just a reminder that those of you that are not regular members of the Non-denominational forum and are members of the other congregational forums are only allowed to fellowship and ask questions.

stone
Ecumenical Moderator

[Floatingaxe]

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no biblical basis to support any of that. "Abraham's bosom" is heaven. If you study Hebrew venacular, and Jewish tradition, you will see that it is as I said -- all three of those terms are interchangeable for "heaven." As I said before, your contention that Jesus "never went to heaven until His ascension" is belied by the use of the word semeron in Luke 23:43. It means "this very day."


Yes, "this very day" Jesus went to release the captives, who were the spirits of the righteous, and waiting for their Messiah, so they could go to Heaven. These were all pre-Christian saints.

[flyingsum0]

Life is nice...Heaven is awesome its the transition thats scary...

[Janice702]

As long as Jesus is with us then we have nothing to be scared about.

He promised He would be with even unto the end of the world.

Janice

[Floatingaxe]

The point is Death and Hell are not forever! What more reassuring message would you like?

Why should people be deceived when the Bible has already made this subject so clear.

"In light of biblical teaching" it was all backed up with verses hehe what else would make it biblically sound? :)

God bless.

Janice


Huh? :scratch:

[IisJustMe]

Yes, "this very day" Jesus went to release the captives, who were the spirits of the righteous, and waiting for their Messiah, so they could go to Heaven. These were all pre-Christian saints. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_1.gif

The things that are believed among God's people. That borders on "purgatory" teaching, and there is no biblical basis for it. David said of his dead infant son, "I will go to him." (II Samuel 12:23) The use of the word halak indicates David will go to where the boy is, not meet him elsewhere. I know your explanation will be that "of course, they both went to 'wait' for Jesus." Nothing of the sort. As you cannot show anywhere in the Bible the teaching to which you ascribe, there is no other conclusion than that the OT saints went into the presence of God in heaven. That's where they went. "Absent from the body ... present with the Lord" as Paul taught, though I'm sure you believe otherwise about that teaching also. You are putting God in a box, making Him fit human understanding, and He doesn't fit within our understanding. He is above time and space, therefore those who pass from this life to stand before Him in judgment or reward are also above time and space. There is no "waiting room" for heaven, in either OT or NT teaching.