My friend is bi...

[LizzieSpinelli]

I don't care if she's bi. I think that some homosexuals are the nicest people in the world, but it is so hard for me to tell them i don't like the "action" they are doing without them getting all offended and then them thinking that I hate them... I feel obliged to let them all know how I feel about it, I am not going to accept a sinful worldly action just because I don't want to offend someone, but how do i let her know that i still like her like a friend the exact same way but don't condone homosexuality? she just imed me so if someone can give me a reply fast....

[MoNiCa4316]

:wave: Did you recently find out she's bi and didn't know before? If she asks you directly if your view of her has changed, then just tell her how you feel..that she's the same friend you had before. :) but if not, then just show her through your actions. Just be a good friend and treat her with love. I've found that one way to really minister to others is to show them that you love them unconditionally, how Christ has loved us...even if you disagree with them. Hope that helps a little.
God bless

monica

[whitedove7]

WE are suppose to hate their sin but love them as Christ loves them.

[Nadiine]

:wave: Did you recently find out she's bi and didn't know before? If she asks you directly if your view of her has changed, then just tell her how you feel..that she's the same friend you had before. :) but if not, then just show her through your actions. Just be a good friend and treat her with love. I've found that one way to really minister to others is to show them that you love them unconditionally, how Christ has loved us...even if you disagree with them. Hope that helps a little.
God bless

monica
I agree Monica - it's not something you just go & 'confront' them with. If it's not within the conversation topic, just telling them you dislike that & why is combative imho.
I wouldn't do it that way. If she asks you, then share it kindly w/ her then.
& depending on how she takes it & if she has a problem with your Christian views on it, then you mite have to divide or it mite put a wedge in btwn your closeness.
That happens sometimes & it's just the way it is.

At least if she has a division with YOU, it's on her and her "intolerance" to your beliefs. Not yours.
Truth in love, and sometimes division happens becuz we share that truth.

:wave: :angel:

[SWigton87]

You know, I had a great friend and coworker who was gay. Occasionally he would ask about my faith and about the Bible. That's how the topic can open up. You have to be prepared to give him a sound answer about what the Bible says about Homosexuality and how Jesus can save him from his sins. Even though he may not recognize his way of life evil, what matters is that God sees it as sinful and wants to redeem him. Make sure you empathize with him, if he does try to repent, that it is not easy to repent any of our sins because they are so ingrained into our psyche. To help bring that point home you may want to confide a secret sin of yours that you are trying to be free of.

Just my thoughts. Make sure you pray about it before attempting my approach, I've been wrong before.

[Nadiine]

Make sure you empathize with him, if he does try to repent, that it is not easy to repent any of our sins because they are so ingrained into our psyche. To help bring that point home you may want to confide a secret sin of yours that you are trying to be free of.

That's a nice post - I'd just note that if you're sharing a secret sin w/ a coworker, make sure you don't share a sin that involves something bad you've been doing AT WORK :help: :doh:

I would hope Christians are empathizing with people who are reaching out to sincerely talk about spiritual issues with us & even about immoralities they mite be engaged with.
It isn't just gay stuff either - my husband's former brother in law & friend who says he got saved recently told my husband that he started dating a nice Christian lady. Then all of a sudden it came up that they had already been in the same bed w/out clothes on!
Ooooook then..............

Anyways, when people are seeking and not rebellious about their lifestyles, we really need to be open and nonjudgmental & refrain from focusing on "sin" issues.
As per Romans 1:18-32, I think they KNOW what's wrong, it's a matter of them just coming to admit it openly & doing something about it.

[flyingsum0]

Hate the sin Love the sinner...pray for her and love her Sis

Peace!

[BrBob]

Nadine is right on! Treat it as a non-issue unless she brings it up, then calmly explain what you believe if she wants to know. By the way, be sure to mention that sin is sin and that everyone sins and is separated from God. That way you are less likely to be faced with her thinking you think less of her.

Bob
Spearfish, SD

[Zecryphon]

I agree Monica - it's not something you just go & 'confront' them with. If it's not within the conversation topic, just telling them you dislike that & why is combative imho.
I wouldn't do it that way. If she asks you, then share it kindly w/ her then.
& depending on how she takes it & if she has a problem with your Christian views on it, then you mite have to divide or it mite put a wedge in btwn your closeness.
That happens sometimes & it's just the way it is.

At least if she has a division with YOU, it's on her and her "intolerance" to your beliefs. Not yours.
Truth in love, and sometimes division happens becuz we share that truth.

:wave: :angel:
I'm just amazed that at 14 years old this girl knows for certain that she's a bi-sexual. I'm afraid to ask what kind of intimate relations she's had with either gender. I do wonder, every time I see a post like this, how much the person in question is letting society dictate to them what they are instead of them being secure enough in who they are to dictate to society. It seems like we have a lot more gay kids now that it's "okay" to be gay.

[MaidforHim]

I know your position well, I have a lesbian relative. I love her like I always have, but I hate her sin and I cannot approve of her lifestyle. She knows this and I think I witness to her through my life on the occasions that we are together. That being said, I don't hang out with her because of her activities -. In the same way I don't hang out at bars with friends that get drunk. I don't think either is something God would want me to do.

I think you should tell your friend how you feel much like you told us. You still like her as friend, but you don't approve of her lifestyle because of your faith and God says it's wrong.

These Bible verses address homosexuality and say it's a sin or abomination:
I Timothy 1:10, I Corinthians 6:9, Jude 7, and Romans 1:24-27.

Romans 8:5-9 show us we cannot practice sin (continually committing sin like it's OK) and belong to Jesus Christ. A person is either following the flesh and is spiritually dead, or is following Christ and is alive, belonging to Him and blessed with eternal life. Even though Christians stumble, they are to resist sin.

Mathew 22:36-40 Show us that even though we recognize and disaprove of sin we are still told to love our neighbor.

Matthew 5:43-48 Even says to love your enemy.

I think if you are honest with your friend about what the Bible tells you your doing the right thing. She may not like it, which is common when someone is in sin and confronted with the truth because God's truth is perfect and it convicts people deep down. And sometimes being convicted of the fact that your in sin is an uncomfortable thing. Still God can take the truth you share, whether it's today or ten years from now and use it in this persons life for His good purpose. :thumbsup:

[Nadiine]

I'm just amazed that at 14 years old this girl knows for certain that she's a bi-sexual. I'm afraid to ask what kind of intimate relations she's had with either gender. I do wonder, every time I see a post like this, how much the person in question is letting society dictate to them what they are instead of them being secure enough in who they are to dictate to society. It seems like we have a lot more gay kids now that it's "okay" to be gay.
that raises a good point about the age.

I think alot of it is definitely our culture that's putting ideas into their heads. Sorry, but our media/entertainment isn't just in "support" of homosexuality, they're outright PROMOTING IT and flaunting it as a good lifestyle.
(if that even exists anymore).

[IisJustMe]

I don't care if she's bi. I think that some homosexuals are the nicest people in the world, but it is so hard for me to tell them i don't like the "action" they are doing without them getting all offended and then them thinking that I hate them... I feel obliged to let them all know how I feel about it, I am not going to accept a sinful worldly action just because I don't want to offend someone, but how do i let her know that i still like her like a friend the exact same way but don't condone homosexuality? she just imed me so if someone can give me a reply fast....Simply tell her in those words. If she was drinking, would you be less afraid to confront her about that? I know, its because its different how she reacts. That's because its a conditioned response. Knowing we are doing something wrong typically keeps us guilt-ridden, avoiding those who love us, and depressed. People who engage in homosexual activity are actually coached to respond with indignation. They have to be told it is a "genetic condition" they can't help. No one otherwise would defend such behavior any more than they defend drinking, drugs, gambling, etc. To be sure, people who practice those things "defend" them also, but from denial, not indignation. In reality, your friend's response is denial, also, but she has the polished answer all ready to give, because someone gave it to her. Anyone who thinks there isn't "recruitment" occurring in our schools is also in denial.

[bluemarkus]

our western metropoles are full of people of this breed. its that we have become just too unthankful having been raised in affluence and overabundance. i mean i can see it in myself, if i dont really have a job to do, i get silly ideas.

ezekiel 16:49 nails it.

[Svt4Him]

Quoted with permission:

"How should I witness to a homosexual?"
Rather than offend homosexuals by directly confronting the issue of their sinful lifestyle, modern evangelism often tries to soften the approach by saying that "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner." This isn’t a new concept.
Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event—the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent, under His government, should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger."
So the Bible shows. God is angry with the wicked [Psalm 7:11], not with the abstract sin. If the wicked turn not, God will whet His sword—He has bent His bow and made it ready—not to shoot at the sin, but the sinner—the wicked man who has done the abominable thing. This is the only doctrine of either the Bible or of common sense on this subject" (The Guilt of Sin).
The biblical way to witness to a homosexual is not to argue with him about his lifestyle but to use the Law to bring the knowledge of sin. This will show him that he is guilty of breaking God’s holy Law, and he is damned not because of, but despite his sexual preference. The Law was made for homosexuals, as well as other lawbreakers. See Psalm 5:5 and 2 Peter 2:6–8 footnotes.

[LizzieSpinelli]

I'm just amazed that at 14 years old this girl knows for certain that she's a bi-sexual. I'm afraid to ask what kind of intimate relations she's had with either gender. I do wonder, every time I see a post like this, how much the person in question is letting society dictate to them what they are instead of them being secure enough in who they are to dictate to society. It seems like we have a lot more gay kids now that it's "okay" to be gay.
Actually, she's only 12 which makes me believe without a doubt this is just a perversion of our cultural world that influences kids so strongly that kids want to become something and then feel that inside them like it's right. But thanks guys, all of you, I've let her know that I love her just the same and she's cool with it. We've talked online like always and I explained where I stand, but everday I just wish that I could save the world, ya know? but I'm trying, and thanks guys for all you're advice.

[Nadiine]

Just pray that God reach her heart & continue what you're doing.
I know how you feel about wanting to save the world.. Jesus DIED for it! He felt the same way even to giving His own life.

*amazing love
how can it be,
that you my King
would die for me* :hug:

[MaidforHim]

Actually, she's only 12 which makes me believe without a doubt this is just a perversion of our cultural world that influences kids so strongly that kids want to become something and then feel that inside them like it's right. But thanks guys, all of you, I've let her know that I love her just the same and she's cool with it. We've talked online like always and I explained where I stand, but everday I just wish that I could save the world, ya know? but I'm trying, and thanks guys for all you're advice.
Hang in there little sister. I think your doing a great job for Jesus! God bless you!!!

[Schroeder]

I'm just amazed that at 14 years old this girl knows for certain that she's a bi-sexual. I'm afraid to ask what kind of intimate relations she's had with either gender. I do wonder, every time I see a post like this, how much the person in question is letting society dictate to them what they are instead of them being secure enough in who they are to dictate to society. It seems like we have a lot more gay kids now that it's "okay" to be gay. its the new "fad" to be gay or bi. being bi is sleeping with both sexs. which is just being perverted. I find no excuse for this. but love the sinner hate the sin. It jsut the way it is now you cant say there wrong because its offends them. trying to make it hate speach. I call it being cowards(not completly the kids but parents parenting society not wanting to deal with them etc.) and not DEALING with what ever issue they have. My daughter has a lot of finds like this. and wouldnt you know most if not all of them have a family issue like divorce or abuse etc. they just use this lifestyle to deal with. being rebellouse trying to get there parents attention find attentions not being given at home. the devil weaves his magic.

[Schroeder]

Quoted with permission:

"How should I witness to a homosexual?"
Rather than offend homosexuals by directly confronting the issue of their sinful lifestyle, modern evangelism often tries to soften the approach by saying that "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner." This isn’t a new concept.
Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event—the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent, under His government, should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger."
So the Bible shows. God is angry with the wicked [Psalm 7:11], not with the abstract sin. If the wicked turn not, God will whet His sword—He has bent His bow and made it ready—not to shoot at the sin, but the sinner—the wicked man who has done the abominable thing. This is the only doctrine of either the Bible or of common sense on this subject" (The Guilt of Sin).
The biblical way to witness to a homosexual is not to argue with him about his lifestyle but to use the Law to bring the knowledge of sin. This will show him that he is guilty of breaking God’s holy Law, and he is damned not because of, but despite his sexual preference. The Law was made for homosexuals, as well as other lawbreakers. See Psalm 5:5 and 2 Peter 2:6–8 footnotes. OH DEAR the straight talk. how could you be so brash and honest. this talk is just not tolerated anymore. Which is probably why its getting more common. It good to be nice and this can be said nicly. but the truth just happenes to HURT, and at times alot, sometimes.

[IamRedeemed]

We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Unless, she is "in your face" with it, there is no reason to address her particular sin, if she is unsaved as her entire status makes her condemned already.
Unless of course she claims to be saved already and is actively living in and promoting sin and doing it all in the name of Jesus claiming that God is blessing her fornication. We are then admonished to correct those within the body. But the Word says that God deals with those who are without.
(I am not speaking on a political level...by all means STAND AND BE COUNTED politically or in a public
arena like these forums where people trash the Word of God for their sinful purposes!) --end lobby--hehe

So, she has to be in first, (unless she asks where you stand) before you preach to her regarding her particular sin. Edit to add: OR SHE WILL JUST CLOSE HER EARS and that will be the messenger's fault.
Just like I cannot imagine any of us walking up to an obese person and preaching to them about their sin of gluttony. There is a Godly order for this. (besides that not all obesity is an issue of gluttony..but anyhoo) It is different when you are standing in a pulpit talking to a crowd in general.

If she doesn't know the Lord, you could open the topic to give her the good news, by asking a question like, "what do you think happens to people when they die?" or "Have you ever thought about where you would spend eternity if you were to die today?" or something like that, which opens the discussion to talk about things of the eternal and may open a door to start telling her what the Lord says will happen and how we have all come short of His glory and that we stand condemned in His sight, but because God did not want us to perish, and He must judge the sin of the world, He sent His only Son, Jesus to pay the wages of sin.....and proceed to tell her the good news and offer her the opportunity to repent and believe.

The goal isn't leading someone into a "prayer of Salvation". The churches are full of false converts
who were obtained that way, whose destiny hasn't changed. The goal is to lead her to understanding
where she stands before God at this moment and understand what God has said her destiny will be without Christ, and that is that we are condemned, and then tell her the good news as the Holy Spirit leads you to deliver the entire message.


I don't care if she's bi. I think that some homosexuals are the nicest people in the world, but it is so hard for me to tell them i don't like the "action" they are doing without them getting all offended and then them thinking that I hate them... I feel obliged to let them all know how I feel about it, I am not going to accept a sinful worldly action just because I don't want to offend someone, but how do i let her know that i still like her like a friend the exact same way but don't condone homosexuality? she just imed me so if someone can give me a reply fast....

[Floatingaxe]

A true friend would absolutely tell her that she is wrong in having sex of any kind at age 12. Ridiculous.

[IamRedeemed]

:eek: 12? I must have missed that part or
I would have asked, "Where is her mother?" :mad: :doh:'

[IisJustMe]

A true friend would absolutely tell her that she is wrong in having sex of any kind at age 12. Ridiculous.Sheez, leave a thread alone for a few days and look where it goes! The problem is, today's 12-year-olds think they know it all and nobody can tell 'em nothin'. Kinda like we were at 14. Fortunately the things I thought I knew were cars, sports and television shows. "That" never crossed my mind at that age.

[LawsonAlan]

I don't care if she's bi. I think that some homosexuals are the nicest people in the world, but it is so hard for me to tell them i don't like the "action" they are doing without them getting all offended and then them thinking that I hate them... I feel obliged to let them all know how I feel about it, I am not going to accept a sinful worldly action just because I don't want to offend someone, but how do i let her know that i still like her like a friend the exact same way but don't condone homosexuality? she just imed me so if someone can give me a reply fast....
There's nothing wrong with being bi or homosexual.

[Floatingaxe]

There's nothing wrong with being bi or homosexual.

This is the type of counsel that gets my hackles up. A child of 12 knows NOTHING about it except what she was indoctrinated with by this sick culture. Do not add further to it in this thread in this Christian forum, thank you.

There is EVERYTHING wrong with bisexuality and homosexuality as God HATES it! To counsel a mere child that there is nothing wrong with it is compounding the fact that a 12 year old girl has been committing a grave sin by having sex at all! And with whom? I would venture it isn't other 1 year olds! In fact, I would wonder if it was someone who is older and should be in prison for interference.

[Kelly]

There's nothing wrong with being bi or homosexual.

What you are saying has grave consequences!

Matthew 18:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=18&verse=6&version=31&context=verse)
If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

[IisJustMe]

There's nothing wrong with being bi or homosexual.That's a very dangerous view to hold in light of ...

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. " (Romans 1:26, 27)

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, noridolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (I Corinthians 6:9, 10)

"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. " I Timothy 1:8-11)

The word translated in both those passages as "homosexual" is arsenokoibes and it means "one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual." Its hard to see how anyone could deny that God considers these acts "sin" just as the does all the others listed there. Understand, not "more sinful" -- just sin, sin that is washed away by the blood of Jesus once a true and righteous confession is made to the purpose of being given the gift of salvation in Christ's sacrifice at the cross. God bless.

[Zecryphon]

:eek: 12? I must have missed that part or
I would have asked, "Where is her mother?" :mad: :doh:'




Well in the post it says the girl is 14, but later on, in the replies, it was revealed that the girl is actually 12.

[Zecryphon]

That's a very dangerous view to hold in light of ...

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. " (Romans 1:26, 27)

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, noridolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (I Corinthians 6:9, 10)

"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. " I Timothy 1:8-11)

The word translated in both those passages as "homosexual" is arsenokoibes and it means "one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual." Its hard to see how anyone could deny that God considers these acts "sin" just as the does all the others listed there. Understand, not "more sinful" -- just sin, sin that is washed away by the blood of Jesus once a true and righteous confession is made. God bless.
We could have used you in CP & E a while back as there was a whole debate on the meaning of the word "Arsenokoites". According to the pro-gay people it has a lot of other meanings as well and absolutely does not refer to homosexuality or same-sex sex. And since it does not, homosexuality and same-sex sex are "a-okay" with God. LOL

[IisJustMe]

We could have used you in CP & E a while back as there was a whole debate on the meaning of the word "Arsenokoites". According to the pro-gay people it has a lot of other meanings as well and absolutely does not refer to homosexuality or same-sex sex. And since it does not, homosexuality and same-sex sex are "a-okay" with God. LOLhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_1.gif

Shouldn't surprise me I guess. Just goes to show to what lengths people who want to excuse their own behavior and deny the truth will go to do so. The definition, by the way, is the entire quote from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. The good doctor didn't find any other meanings in his research. LOL

I know what they try to do, but its not a valid method of etymology. They try to define the word by its two roots: Arrhen (Strong's # 730) which means "male" and koite (Strong's # 2845) from which we get the English word "coitus" which is obvious in its meaning. Sometimes koite was used as a "place to lie down." But by far its more common usage was for the marital bed, or adulterous "lying down." When accompanied with arrhen it can only mean homosexual relations. After all, what would be the point of specifying a "male place to lie down?" All ridiculous arguments aside, there was no place in Greek culture that was necessary. It can only mean "gay sex" and the Bible obviously condemns it.

[Nadiine]

We could have used you in CP & E a while back as there was a whole debate on the meaning of the word "Arsenokoites". According to the pro-gay people it has a lot of other meanings as well and absolutely does not refer to homosexuality or same-sex sex. And since it does not, homosexuality and same-sex sex are "a-okay" with God. LOL
People will do anything to justify what they want to continue doing.
I did a study on the word years back and there is no getting around it's same sex meaning - it's really in depth & can't be construed into anything else; namely within its context that spells out the sex act.

The other justification they use is that anytime they read same sex, they claim it's only referring to "male temple prostitutes" - ritualistic sex that's evil, not loving homosexual couples. :doh: :swoon:
(there are a few references in Greek to the male temple prostitutes... but not all of them are).

I'd like to know then why God forbids ONLY male w/ male temple sex, yet leaves the specifics of male w/ female (or even beastiality) temple sex wide open for lawful sexual exchange??? lol
What a nice loophole for those folks! It doesn't even make sense.
oh well

[Zecryphon]

People will do anything to justify what they want to continue doing.
I did a study on the word years back and there is no getting around it's same sex meaning - it's really in depth & can't be construed into anything else; namely within its context that spells out the sex act.

The other justification they use is that anytime they read same sex, they claim it's only referring to "male temple prostitutes" - ritualistic sex that's evil, not loving homosexual couples. :doh: :swoon:
(there are a few references in Greek to the male temple prostitutes... but not all of them are).

I'd like to know then why God forbids ONLY male w/ male temple sex, yet leaves the specifics of male w/ female (or even beastiality) temple sex wide open for lawful sexual exchange??? lol
What a nice loophole for those folks! It doesn't even make sense.
oh well
The Archaeological Study Bible has a really good article on temple prostitution. I'll type it up and send it to you in a PM.

[Kelly]

The Archaeological Study Bible has a really good article on temple prostitution. I'll type it up and send it to you in a PM.

Me too!

I have always been curious what this was.

[Nadiine]

The Archaeological Study Bible has a really good article on temple prostitution. I'll type it up and send it to you in a PM.
I'd love to see that! If it's not too long, I'd want to post it...
Maybe if you can find that online you wouldn't have to hand type it in. :help:

[Floatingaxe]

The Archaeological Study Bible has a really good article on temple prostitution. I'll type it up and send it to you in a PM.

Please forward that to me as well! PLEASE, would you? :bow:

[Zecryphon]

Me too!

I have always been curious what this was.
You got it.

[Zecryphon]

I'd love to see that! If it's not too long, I'd want to post it...
Maybe if you can find that online you wouldn't have to hand type it in. :help:
Nadiine, I'm a Lutheran. I look forward to suffering for my faith. LOL Now stop making me laugh, I have to go be stoic and serious.

[Zecryphon]

Please forward that to me as well! PLEASE, would you? :bow:
If this keeps up I might as well spam the entire thread. LOL

[LawsonAlan]

This is the type of counsel that gets my hackles up. A child of 12 knows NOTHING about it except what she was indoctrinated with by this sick culture. Do not add further to it in this thread in this Christian forum, thank you.

There is EVERYTHING wrong with bisexuality and homosexuality as God HATES it! To counsel a mere child that there is nothing wrong with it is compounding the fact that a 12 year old girl has been committing a grave sin by having sex at all! And with whom? I would venture it isn't other 1 year olds! In fact, I would wonder if it was someone who is older and should be in prison for interference.
There's been no mention of the level of activity of this girl. She's 12, which is about the age, if not older, than many homosexuals reporting their realization of their gender attractions.

Now's not the time to rebuke a child who is trying to make sense of their feelings. Now is the time to show compassion and understanding.

Now, if you feel that homosexuality is wrong, that's your right. There are certainly scriptures that back up that idea. If you do not think that homosexuality is wrong, as I do, that is also your right.

I'm not here to debate the issue of whether or not homosexuality is wrong.

I am, however, allowed to have an opinion.

[Floatingaxe]

There's been no mention of the level of activity of this girl. She's 12, which is about the age, if not older, than many homosexuals reporting their realization of their gender attractions.

Now's not the time to rebuke a child who is trying to make sense of their feelings. Now is the time to show compassion and understanding.

Now, if you feel that homosexuality is wrong, that's your right. There are certainly scriptures that back up that idea. If you do not think that homosexuality is wrong, as I do, that is also your right.

I'm not here to debate the issue of whether or not homosexuality is wrong.

I am, however, allowed to have an opinion.


To interject a strong opinion about homosexuality not being a sin in a thread where a child's virtue is in jeopardy, you have been very unwise.

There are debate threads for your position. I advise you post your thoughts there.

As you know there are scriptures addressing the sin of homosexuality, I can see no reason for you to oppose God in this matter, except to adhere to an obstinate spirit.

It certainly is a time to rebuke strongly a child's waywardness! It is easier to correct a child than a man or woman! If it were left up to you or those like yourself, you'd simply be patting the child on the back, and doing what, precisely? Certainly not pointing the child in the right direction!

No, she needs wise counsel!

[Zecryphon]

There's been no mention of the level of activity of this girl. She's 12, which is about the age, if not older, than many homosexuals reporting their realization of their gender attractions.

Now's not the time to rebuke a child who is trying to make sense of their feelings. Now is the time to show compassion and understanding.

Now, if you feel that homosexuality is wrong, that's your right. There are certainly scriptures that back up that idea. If you do not think that homosexuality is wrong, as I do, that is also your right.

I'm not here to debate the issue of whether or not homosexuality is wrong.

I am, however, allowed to have an opinion.
I'd like to know how much time has passed between this girl being told it's okay to be homosexual and her announcement that she is bi-sexual. Most likely she has experienced at least oral sex by this time. Most sixth graders have. She could be experimenting now with both boys and girls, which is why she thinks she's bi-sexual. It would be interesting to see if she remains bi-sexual or ends up as homo or heterosexual in the end.

[Zecryphon]

To interject a strong opinion about homosexuality not being a sin in a thread where a child's virtue is in jeopardy, you have been very unwise.

There are debate threads for your position. I advise you post your thoughts there.

As you know there are scriptures addressing the sin of homosexuality, I can see no reason for you to oppose God in this matter, except to adhere to an obstinate spirit.

It certainly is a time to rebuke strongly a child's waywardness! It is easier to correct a child than a man or woman! If it were left up to you or those like yourself, you'd simply be patting the child on the back, and doing what, precisely? Certainly not pointing the child in the right direction!

No, she needs wise counsel!
Don't rebuke the child too strongly, Axe. Be firm, but be loving as well. She is 12 and is about to engage in 7 years or rebellion against, oh, pretty much everything and everyone. So if you come at her with this attitude of "Stop or you're gonna burn in hell", she'll take Hell because that would really stick it to her parents, friends and society. There is a way to deal with this and I agree, rebuking is necessary, but everytime we rebuke someone, we must do it out of love. Everybody always forgets that part. You wanna guarantee rebellion in a teenager, forbid them from doing something.

[2theBone]

I don't care if she's bi. I think that some homosexuals are the nicest people in the world, but it is so hard for me to tell them i don't like the "action" they are doing without them getting all offended and then them thinking that I hate them... I feel obliged to let them all know how I feel about it, I am not going to accept a sinful worldly action just because I don't want to offend someone, but how do i let her know that i still like her like a friend the exact same way but don't condone homosexuality? she just imed me so if someone can give me a reply fast....

You must address her in love. You have no reason or authority to condemn her, yet you seem to think you must. Why?

[Zecryphon]

You must address her in love. You have no reason or authority to condemn her, yet you seem to think you must. Why?
How is telling someone you don't like what they're doing "condemning" them?

[2theBone]

How is telling someone you don't like what they're doing "condemning" them?

If you "don't like what they do" based on your religion calling it "sin," then you are condemning them and calling them sinners.

:amen:

[2theBone]

Now, if you feel that homosexuality is wrong, that's your right. There are certainly scriptures that back up that idea. If you do not think that homosexuality is wrong, as I do, that is also your right.

It's a real stretch to conclude that homosexuality is wrong based on scripture. The scriptures usually used are inconclusive and Jesus never said anything about it.

In this case, the main concern is that the child NOT be damaged by condemning attitudes or be told that it is a "sin."

[IisJustMe]

I'm not here to debate the issue of whether or not homosexuality is wrong. I am, however, allowed to have an opinion.Question: What if holding to that opinion causes one to act on the urges present in them and prevents one from surrendering to Jesus Christ for salvation?

Question: What if the price a believer pays for holding to this opinion and possible action on those urges, is the loss of heavenly reward, being shoved out of the Wedding Feast of Christ and made to be a mere onlooker?

Question: What if holding to this opinion means you have no crowns to cast at Jesus feet?

Is it more than an mere "opinion" then? Or would it become something perhaps the "opinion-holder" should deal with in this life, rather than find out the consequences in the next?

[Floatingaxe]

Don't rebuke the child too strongly, Axe. Be firm, but be loving as well. She is 12 and is about to engage in 7 years or rebellion against, oh, pretty much everything and everyone. So if you come at her with this attitude of "Stop or you're gonna burn in hell", she'll take Hell because that would really stick it to her parents, friends and society. There is a way to deal with this and I agree, rebuking is necessary, but everytime we rebuke someone, we must do it out of love. Everybody always forgets that part. You wanna guarantee rebellion in a teenager, forbid them from doing something.


Where's the rod! Somebody get me the rod of correction! I'll show you a thing or two about love!

[Floatingaxe]

It's a real stretch to conclude that homosexuality is wrong based on scripture. The scriptures usually used are inconclusive and Jesus never said anything about it.

In this case, the main concern is that the child NOT be damaged by condemning attitudes or be told that it is a "sin."

Don't get me started! If God said He hates homosexuality and immorality and fornication---THEN JESUS SAID IT TOO!

That child needs to be rescued from the claws of Satan and the fires of hell. Sentimentality will kill her. Gimme a break.

[2theBone]

Looks like one can hardly AVOID getting you started.

What kills young homosexuals is condemnation from people who don't know any better.

This is one of the leading causes of suicide among a group with a high suicide rate.

[Floatingaxe]

What kills young homosexuals is condemnation from people who don't know any better.

It's the young ignoramuses who don't know any better. They are being treated like adults and served up immorality like it's ice cream.

This is one of the leading causes of suicide among a group with a high suicide rate.
Deep sadness and disillusionment is part of the territory when one engages in perversions. You can't pin that sadness on those who are not perverted.

[AllTalkNoAction]

bi...cycle, bi...cycle

bi...cycle, bi..cycle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUGuEy2cMGQ&feature=related)

[Nadiine]

Looks like one can hardly AVOID getting you started.

What kills young homosexuals is condemnation from people who don't know any better.

This is one of the leading causes of suicide among a group with a high suicide rate.
They are more accepted today than ever before! SO WHY THE SUICIDE?

I know why, they know it's wrong and have a hard time living in it.
How can ANYONE claim that living in a sexually sinful lifestyle is good for a person (ANY person of ANY age?).

Need I remind anyone that sex before marriage is STILL SIN?? Nevermind the gender you choose; it's wrong and it's damaging to people in so many ways. Sex has been turned into a common act instead of keeping its significance as God intended.
We weren't created to live in this condition & our society shows the result of it in our youth today.

God is crystal clear that it's abomination to violate His order of Creation - Jesus told us what the proper marital union is specifically:

Matt. 19
3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"
4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? 6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Jesus can't be any clearer that the Creator made them male & female - and FOR THAT REASON the man takes the woman as his wife. The reason for their sexes was to become one marital unit.
That is NOT a homosexual relationship - it's God's established order for the home; the man is the HEAD of the home, the woman is his helpmate - the submissive.
There are not 2 heads of a home (this deals with spiritual authority as well).

Sin is never "fine" and it's NEVER "ok" with God and sin is ALWAYS damaging.

[Nadiine]

What kills young homosexuals is condemnation from people who don't know any better.

I'd also add something else here - there's LOTS of "condemnation" given by alot of people for different types of criminals... how come THEY aren't committing a large percentage of suicides??
Heck, if condemnation is the source of what causes suicide, then Pres. Bush, Christians, JW's & republicans, pedophiles, & many many others would equally be doing this ---
why THEM in particular?

According to scripture, sexual sins are in a different level.
1 Cor 6
16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH."
18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Granted, this verse is to and about Christians who aren't to unite their body w/ others (stating male & female again) in sexual immorality - how much more of a violation against their own body would it be to have same sex relations?

Romans 1:32
32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them

Any suicide & 'condemnation' they feel is INTERNAL becuz all of us have God's moral law in our conscience. They know better.

[IamRedeemed]

.
.
.

http://pichostonline.com/u/071221/cc119942b7.png


They are more accepted today than ever before! SO WHY THE SUICIDE?

I know why, they know it's wrong and have a hard time living in it.
How can ANYONE claim that living in a sexually sinful lifestyle is good for a person (ANY person of ANY age?).

Need I remind anyone that sex before marriage is STILL SIN?? Nevermind the gender you choose; it's wrong and it's damaging to people in so many ways. Sex has been turned into a common act instead of keeping its significance as God intended.
We weren't created to live in this condition & our society shows the result of it in our youth today.

God is crystal clear that it's abomination to violate His order of Creation - Jesus told us what the proper marital union is specifically:

Matt. 19
3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"
4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? 6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Jesus can't be any clearer that the Creator made them male & female - and FOR THAT REASON the man takes the woman as his wife. The reason for their sexes was to become one marital unit.
That is NOT a homosexual relationship - it's God's established order for the home; the man is the HEAD of the home, the woman is his helpmate - the submissive.
There are not 2 heads of a home (this deals with spiritual authority as well).

Sin is never "fine" and it's NEVER "ok" with God and sin is ALWAYS damaging.

I'd also add something else here - there's LOTS of "condemnation" given by alot of people for different types of criminals... how come THEY aren't committing a large percentage of suicides??
Heck, if condemnation is the source of what causes suicide, then Pres. Bush, Christians, JW's & republicans, pedophiles, & many many others would equally be doing this ---
why THEM in particular?

According to scripture, sexual sins are in a different level.
1 Cor 6
16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH."
18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Granted, this verse is to and about Christians who aren't to unite their body w/ others (stating male & female again) in sexual immorality - how much more of a violation against their own body would it be to have same sex relations?

Romans 1:32
32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them

Any suicide & 'condemnation' they feel is INTERNAL becuz all of us have God's moral law in our conscience. They know better.

[Zecryphon]

If you "don't like what they do" based on your religion calling it "sin," then you are condemning them and calling them sinners.

:amen:
Actually, it's God who declares what is sin and what is not. Nobody said anything about condemning her and calling her a sinner. The question is how does the statement "I don't like what you're doing." equal you're a sinner? I mean if you're a vegetarian and you say "I don't like meat" are you condemning all animals and calling them evil? C'mon! Use your head.

[Zecryphon]

Where's the rod! Somebody get me the rod of correction! I'll you you a thing or two about love!
Don't sing it sister, bring it! You bring your rod of correction I'll bring my Glock and we'll see who wins! LOL

[Zecryphon]

Looks like one can hardly AVOID getting you started.

What kills young homosexuals is condemnation from people who don't know any better.

This is one of the leading causes of suicide among a group with a high suicide rate.
Guilt? You're resorting to guilt now? Man you must be all out of evidence that supports your case. LOL

[2theBone]

The callous and blaming attitude shown by some of the responses here is exactly the attitude that kills young homosexuals.

They are NOT more accepted today than ever before--that should be obvious by the uncaring attitude you display.

Opposites of Jesus say and do these hurtful things and I think we're all quite aware of it.

[Floatingaxe]

The callous and blaming attitude shown by some of the responses here is exactly the attitude that kills young homosexuals.

They are NOT more accepted today than ever before--that should be obvious by the uncaring attitude you display.

Opposites of Jesus say and do these hurtful things and I think we're all quite aware of it.

It's "opposites of Jesus" who indulge in such perversions as bisexuality and homosexuality. Self-condemnation is part of the "disease".

Christians don't have to accept sin. We aren't normally callous about it with the sinner. We are like Jesus in our loving correction. What you are seeing as callous is the refusal to accept the unwise, tolerant, milquetoast responses like yours.

If these people need Jesus, we offer Him first. If they say they know Jesus, we see that they haven't really met Him and continue to offer Him as Saviour and Healer. You need to be doing that as well.

Hand-holding behaviour gets them--and you--punishment.

[Zecryphon]

The callous and blaming attitude shown by some of the responses here is exactly the attitude that kills young homosexuals.

They are NOT more accepted today than ever before--that should be obvious by the uncaring attitude you display.

Opposites of Jesus say and do these hurtful things and I think we're all quite aware of it.
"The callous and blaming attitude shown by some of the responses here is exactly the attitude that kills young homosexuals."

WRONG! It's the young homosexuals that kill the young homosexuals. People who commit suicide do so because they have MANY problems, not just one. So you're constant reliance upon guilt trips based around this one supposed condemnation by Christians, is pathetic and is without basis in truth.

"They are NOT more accepted today than ever before--that should be obvious by the uncaring attitude you display."

Oh please. Ever seen a gay pride parade? Nobody denies homosexuals anything, because they fear the backlash that will happen and the accusations of being homophobic. Homosexuals get to walk around naked at their parades. Straight people do that and we're arrested for indecent exposure. Not only are you more accepted today than you have been in the past, you have more freedoms too.

"Opposites of Jesus say and do these hurtful things and I think we're all quite aware of it."

Yeah, cuz Jesus never rebuked anybody. He never tossed temple tables and whipped moneychangers in the temple when they turned the house of His Father into a house of thieves. He never called sinners chidlren of the devil and He never called the Pharisees a brood of vipers. Read the Bible, He did it all.

Jesus detests sin as much as God does because He is God. But continue to see what you want to see and continue to be just as condeming as you accuse us of being. What you are engaged in is total hypocrisy. It's okay for you tell us all that we're behaving in a way that is not pleasing to Jesus and is contradictory to what He taught, but it's not okay for us to do so to you or homosexuals. This is just another example of how the homosexuals have more rights than heterosexuals do. You get to say whatever you want, yet we have to monitor our speech. When you're done crying a river about how persecuted you are, maybe you'll see you're no different than any of us, you just think you are.

[2theBone]

Exactly.

Jesus whipped religious fakers in that den of robbers they called a "Temple."

Jesus didn't whip homosexuals as you are doing and as some Christians specialize in doing these days.

Homosexuals have NEVER before been attacked in the vicious and aggressive way that Christians attack them today.

[Floatingaxe]

Exactly.

Jesus whipped religious fakers in that den of robbers they called a "Temple."

Jesus didn't whip homosexuals as you are doing and as some Christians specialize in doing these days.

Homosexuals have NEVER before been attacked in the vicious and aggressive way that Christians attack them today.


That's bull.

We don't attack. We defend Jesus and His righteousness vigourously.

[Zecryphon]

Exactly.

Jesus whipped religious fakers in that den of robbers they called a "Temple."

Jesus didn't whip homosexuals as you are doing and as some Christians specialize in doing these days.

Homosexuals have NEVER before been attacked in the vicious and aggressive way that Christians attack them today.

"Exactly.

Jesus whipped religious fakers in that den of robbers they called a "Temple."

Jesus didn't whip homosexuals as you are doing and as some Christians specialize in doing these days."


How do you know that the people He whipped weren't homosexuals? Hmm? Temple prostitution was in full force when Jesus did what He did. How do you know that the people He whipped weren't gay? Plus, you could easily say that people who deny the scriptures regarding same-sex sex are fakers too, but no, you'd never go for that, would you? It's always everybody else who has the problems, isn't it?

"Homosexuals have NEVER before been attacked in the vicious and aggressive way that Christians attack them today."

And just how are they being attacked today? Are they having to endure hearing that what they are doing is wrong? Oh, the horror. There are homosexual Christians, so it's not like these people are run out of churches and burned at the stake. Got another fable you'd like to tell, I'm all ears. LOL

[Floatingaxe]

There are homosexual Christians,

Where? Struggling? Yes, and they receive loving correction and instruction in accountability in order to turn from their sin. They get deliverance ministry also.

But those who hold to their perversion and show no godly sorrow, and will not repent--they must leave.

[IisJustMe]

Exactly. Jesus whipped religious fakers in that den of robbers they called a "Temple."You're right, "exactly." What would you call someone who claims to follow Christ but behaves in a way contrary to what He taught? Regardless of how some want to twist God's word and try to make it say something different, this behavior is sinful.Jesus didn't whip homosexuals as you are doing and as some Christians specialize in doing these days.I agree, there are many who vilify the behavior as being somehow more sinful that adultery, thievery, lying, gossiping, etc. Someone who belongs to Christ and behaves in this way is just as sinful in God's eyes as someone who belongs to Him and engages in homosexual behavior. It is all sin in God's economy, and the eternal judgment of the believer will be to feel sorrowful and shed tears at the Bema Seat when their "life video" is played before them and they see not only the opportunities for ministry they missed, but also the poor witness they exhibited by their sinful behavior, including (yes, sorry to say) homosexual acts.

I spent seven years in addictions counseling before entering private practice when I got my masters in counseling psychology. The denial and justification that people who engage in homosexual behavior and lifestyles resembles nothing more or less than addicts trying to justify their behavior and lifestyle. The similarities are remarkable, and have even gone a step further in that the "gay and lesbian movement" seeks to prove it is "natural and acceptable" and people are actually buying that tripe. I don't know what is more amazing, that they actually conceived of this notion, or that the public buys it whereas they would not if alcoholics, addicts, compuslive gamblers and sex addicts organized in the same fashion. Come to think of it, there are those in the world naive enough to buy into such a campaign, so maybe I shouldn't shake my head and go "ARG!!" when I hear people believing this tripe.

Ultimately God is the Judge, and I'm certain that those who try to justify this behavior are secretly terrified they may be wrong. Otherwise, why the remorse and the grief, the depression and even the anger over who they are? Please don't insult my intelligence and everyone else's by saying "Its the way they are treated by society." Hogwash! Everyone is responsible for their own emotions, their own thoughts, their own actions. As Abe Lincoln said, "We are just about as happy as we choose to be." A Christian living in persistent sin knows why he or she is depressed, angry, grief-stricken. Christians who engage in homosexual practices are emotionally distraught because they know they are wrong.Homosexuals have NEVER before been attacked in the vicious and aggressive way that Christians attack them today.Oh, yes,of course. I burned one at the stake the other day.

You've got to be kidding me with this comment!! The dark ages, the middle ages -- sheez, the things that were done to people who practiced this sin in those days are unspeakable! They were wrong and so are those who vilify people who "come out of the closet" in denial of the truth of their sin. As I said, addicts do the same thing, and we show them sympathy as a church (not necessarily individually, but there will be questions for them at the Bema Seat as well) and we should show everyone in persistent sin the same sympathy. Continue in your denial if you must, but God's word cannot be changed, altered, or reinterpreted to fit our desires. It says what it says, and it requires the believer to act accordingly.

[Zecryphon]

Where? Struggling? Yes, and they receive loving correction and instruction in accountability in order to turn from their sin. They get deliverance ministry also.

But those who hold to their perversion and show no godly sorrow, and will not repent--they must leave.


"Where?"

I think it would be foolish to assume that everyone in your church is straight. I've had gay people in churches I've been a member of, didn't bother me.

"Struggling? Yes, and they receive loving correction and instruction in accountability in order to turn from their sin. They get deliverance ministry also."

Not all of them do though. We have to accept that Christ has saved them and all people, regardless of what lifestyle of sin we may see people in at any given time. The homosexual offender is no more repugnant to God than the adulterer or the liar or the teenager downloading music off the net and thereby being engaged in thievery. It's ALL sin and it's ALL offensive to God.

We have to trust in Jesus our savior to do what is best. Sometimes you have to let go and stop trying to fix everyone. I know for myself personally, that sometimes I fall so much in my walk it looks like I'm trying to walk with two broken legs. I can't be trying to fix everyone when my own walk is not what it should be. We don't excuse sin by any means, but we also don't attempt to fix everyone who may have a splinter in their eye. Have you ever stopped to think that God may be using homosexual people to teach YOU a lesson about compassion and forgiveness and acceptance of others?

"But those who hold to their perversion and show no godly sorrow, and will not repent--they must leave."

It's a good thing that God does not forsake people as easily as you do. If a person is an unrepentant sinner, there are steps the church can take as outlined in Matthew 18. But that's a rare exception and I've only heard of that being enacted once at my last church.

[Cris413]

Exactly.

Jesus whipped religious fakers in that den of robbers they called a "Temple."

Jesus didn't whip homosexuals as you are doing and as some Christians specialize in doing these days.

Homosexuals have NEVER before been attacked in the vicious and aggressive way that Christians attack them today.

If I could just interject here for a moment...

Please do not confuse supporting what God tells us in Scripture regarding homosexuality as vicious attacks against homosexuals.

Please don't broadstroke the acts and attitudes of the bigotry of others as the mentality and bigotry of ALL Christians.

I can say with all confidence...no true Believer would have such a heart against any person.

Just as I would not broad stroke all homosexuals who remain in the lifestyle as viciously attacking those who have turned away from the lifestyle...

As I have seen that exact thing happen several times.

Homosexuals that have turned to Christ called traitors and ostricised from people they care deeply for and "attacked" because of it.

Homosexuals actively harassing them because they have formed Out Reach Ministries to tell other homosexuals there is a way out of this bondage through Jesus Christ.

Absolutely breaks my heart...

[2theBone]

I can say with all confidence...no true Believer would have such a heart against any person.Really, isn't that "no true believer" argument getting a bit old and tired?

With every Christian offense these days comes the statement, "Well....they weren't REAL Christians......no REAL Christian would do that."

Let's get real. Don't you know that when you attack a human being by saying that they are "in bondage" and need an "outreach ministry" to "save" them--you are engaging in the most devastating form of bigotry?

How do you think a vulnerable pre-teen or teenager feels when you say things like that? And things like others here have said......perversion, for example?

I suppose it has become so second nature to you that you can't see it.

But Jesus does.

"Even as you did to the least of these..."

[IisJustMe]

Really, isn't that "no true believer" argument getting a bit old and tired?

With every Christian offense these days comes the statement, "Well....they weren't REAL Christians......no REAL Christian would do that."

Let's get real. Don't you know that when you attack a human being by saying that they are "in bondage" and need an "outreach ministry" to "save" them--you are engaging in the most devastating form of bigotry?

How do you think a vulnerable pre-teen or teenager feels when you say things like that? And things like others here have said......perversion, for example?

I suppose it has become so second nature to you that you can't see it.

But Jesus does.

"Even as you did to the least of these..."
I find it interesting you want to take issue with one statement (lifted out of context, no less) and you won't deal with the truth that is being shared with you by all the posters on this thread. What does that tell us about you?

[Floatingaxe]

"Where?"

I think it would be foolish to assume that everyone in your church is straight. I've had gay people in churches I've been a member of, didn't bother me.



Not all of them do though. We have to accept that Christ has saved them and all people, regardless of what lifestyle of sin we may see people in at any given time. The homosexual offender is no more repugnant to God than the adulterer or the liar or the teenager downloading music off the net and thereby being engaged in thievery. It's ALL sin and it's ALL offensive to God.

We have to trust in Jesus our savior to do what is best. Sometimes you have to let go and stop trying to fix everyone. I know for myself personally, that sometimes I fall so much in my walk it looks like I'm trying to walk with two broken legs. I can't be trying to fix everyone when my own walk is not what it should be. We don't excuse sin by any means, but we also don't attempt to fix everyone who may have a splinter in their eye. Have you ever stopped to think that God may be using homosexual people to teach YOU a lesson about compassion and forgiveness and acceptance of others?



It's a good thing that God does not forsake people as easily as you do. If a person is an unrepentant sinner, there are steps the church can take as outlined in Matthew 18. But that's a rare exception and I've only heard of that being enacted once at my last church.

It is a good, functioning body that operates scripturally and when a person refuses correction, and does not have remorse or "godly sorrow", that church must send him out.


A church that refuses to properly shepherd the sheep, and deal with sin in its membership, leaving them open to pollution, is a church that has serious problems.

We may have the odd homosexual in our church, but they would be either unsaved, charlatans, or they are those who are open and honest and struggling with their sin and seeking help. The unsaved will either receive Christ and gain healing. The unrepentant hear the truth and GO.

[Floatingaxe]

Let's get real. Don't you know that when you attack a human being by saying that they are "in bondage" and need an "outreach ministry" to "save" them--you are engaging in the most devastating form of bigotry?



It isn't bigotry to teach another about sin.

The person you love to death with your tolerance will not be thanking you as he is sentenced to hell.

The one I pull from the fire will be thanking me.

[Cris413]

Really, isn't that "no true believer" argument getting a bit old and tired?

With every Christian offense these days comes the statement, "Well....they weren't REAL Christians......no REAL Christian would do that."

Let's get real. Don't you know that when you attack a human being by saying that they are "in bondage" and need an "outreach ministry" to "save" them--you are engaging in the most devastating form of bigotry?

How do you think a vulnerable pre-teen or teenager feels when you say things like that? And things like others here have said......perversion, for example?

I suppose it has become so second nature to you that you can't see it.

But Jesus does.

"Even as you did to the least of these..."

Well kind sir...to be quite honest with you...I'm more concerned with sharing the truth in love than I am about possibly hurting someone's feelings.

I'm not a bigot. I have deep care and concern for my friends that are homosexual. Just as I have a deep care and concern for everyone who may be separated from God or in bondage to some sin nature.

You can choose to view this however you like.

This life is but a vapor. I mere blink of the eye. I'm very much more concerned with the eternal than I am with our temporal existence as we walk on this planet.

And truth...never gets old and tiresome.

Peace

[2theBone]

I find it interesting you want to take issue with one statement (lifted out of context, no less) and you won't deal with the truth that is being shared with you by all the posters on this thread. What does that tell us about you?
I don't know, but what you just said tells me that you have no effective response to what I said.

[Waddell]

Your friend isn't "bi", she's hurt. Heal the hurt.

[Cris413]

Your friend isn't "bi", she's hurt. Heal the hurt.
back on topic...:thumbsup:

[Waddell]

This is the topic. Heal the hurt.

Period. :thumbsup:

[Floatingaxe]

This is the topic. Heal the hurt.

Period. :thumbsup:

And who does the healing? Do you know that?

[Waddell]

And who does the healing? Do you know that?

Yes Ma'am. I know Him. :)

[MaidforHim]

You're right, "exactly." What would you call someone who claims to follow Christ but behaves in a way contrary to what He taught? Regardless of how some want to twist God's word and try to make it say something different, this behavior is sinful.I agree, there are many who vilify the behavior as being somehow more sinful that adultery, thievery, lying, gossiping, etc. Someone who belongs to Christ and behaves in this way is just as sinful in God's eyes as someone who belongs to Him and engages in homosexual behavior. It is all sin in God's economy, and the eternal judgment of the believer will be to feel sorrowful and shed tears at the Bema Seat when their "life video" is played before them and they see not only the opportunities for ministry they missed, but also the poor witness they exhibited by their sinful behavior, including (yes, sorry to say) homosexual acts.

I spent seven years in addictions counseling before entering private practice when I got my masters in counseling psychology. The denial and justification that people who engage in homosexual behavior and lifestyles resembles nothing more or less than addicts trying to justify their behavior and lifestyle. The similarities are remarkable, and have even gone a step further in that the "gay and lesbian movement" seeks to prove it is "natural and acceptable" and people are actually buying that tripe. I don't know what is more amazing, that they actually conceived of this notion, or that the public buys it whereas they would not if alcoholics, addicts, compuslive gamblers and sex addicts organized in the same fashion. Come to think of it, there are those in the world naive enough to buy into such a campaign, so maybe I shouldn't shake my head and go "ARG!!" when I hear people believing this tripe.

Ultimately God is the Judge, and I'm certain that those who try to justify this behavior are secretly terrified they may be wrong. Otherwise, why the remorse and the grief, the depression and even the anger over who they are? Please don't insult my intelligence and everyone else's by saying "Its the way they are treated by society." Hogwash! Everyone is responsible for their own emotions, their own thoughts, their own actions. As Abe Lincoln said, "We are just about as happy as we choose to be." A Christian living in persistent sin knows why he or she is depressed, angry, grief-stricken, and those traits among Christians who engage in homosexual practices are emotionally distraught because they know they are wrong.Oh, yes,of course. I burned one at the stake the other day. You've got to be kidding me with this comment!! The dark ages, the middle ages -- sheez, the things that were done to people who practiced this sin in those days! They were wrong and so are those who vilify people who "come out of the closet" in denial of the truth of their sin. Addicts, as I said, do the same thing, and we show them sympathy as a church (not necessarily individually, but there will be questions for them at the Bema Seat as well) and we should show everyone in persistent sin the same sympathy. Continue in your denial if you must, but God's word cannot be changed, altared, or reinterpreted to fit our desires. It says what it says, and it requires the believer to act accordingly.

I agree 100% with everything you've said here. :thumbsup:

[Waddell]

Not one person on the face of the planet has been created queer. Not one.

[stone]

Not one person on the face of the planet has been created queer. Not one.
i agree

[Cris413]

What we have here...adults...is a 14 year old looking for a way to deal with her 12 year old friend's sexuality...

Wake up those of you who are asleep at the wheel here. I haven't read through the entire thread...but I've read enough...

Lizzie, sweetie...You need to talk to your mom about this. If that's not possible for whatever reason...you need to talk to a trusted ADULT... Is your friend someone you know in person...or online? Either way you need to talk about this with an adult in person.

This is a situation you are not emotionally mature enough to deal with all by yourself.

If your 12 year old friend is having sexual identity issues...or is emotionally hurting.... A trusted ADULT needs to be made aware of it.

In the meantime, sweetie, keep your friend in prayer...and be her friend. Don't worry about what you consider her sin is....God knows all about it.

Again...pray for her...be her friend...and talk to a trusted adult about this situation...in person.

[Cris413]

I would ask you all consider...this thread was started by a 14 year old girl...

[Waddell]

Whaaaa!!!! But I'm supposed to Love her! I can't do that without telling her she's right!!!!

Whaaaaaaa!

I'm empowered, I'm somebody, I'm entittled!!!!!!!

Whaaaaa!!!!!

Are you getting the picture that I could not care less about what the "world" and it's system thinks?

[stone]

wasnt' aware of the age thing, yikes, definately agree that parents or adults need to be informed.

What we have here...adults...is a 14 year old looking for a way to deal with her 12 year old friend's sexuality...

Wake up those of you who are asleep at the wheel here. I haven't read through the entire thread...but I've read enough...

Lizzie, sweetie...You need to talk to your mom about this. If that's not possible for whatever reason...you need to talk to a trusted ADULT... Is your friend someone you know in person...or online? Either way you need to talk about this with an adult in person.

This is a situation you are not emotionally mature enough to deal with all by yourself.

If your 12 year old friend is having sexual identity issues...or is emotionally hurting.... A trusted ADULT needs to be made aware of it.

In the meantime, sweetie, keep your friend in prayer...and be her friend. Don't worry about what you consider her sin is....God knows all about it.

Again...pray for her...be her friend...and talk to a trusted adult about this situation...in person.

[Cris413]

Whaaaa!!!! But I'm supposed to Love her! I can't do that without telling her she's right!!!!

Whaaaaaaa!

I'm empowered, I'm somebody, I'm entittled!!!!!!!

Whaaaaa!!!!!

Are you getting the picture that I could not care less about what the "world" and it's system thinks?
I'm not certain who you are addressing in this post...

It's all well and good you couldn't care less about what the world system thinks...most Believers don't...

but again...I do suggest...as concerned "adults"...we should consider the age appropriateness of the OP...

[Waddell]

I'm not certain who you are addressing in this post...

It's all well and good you couldn't care less about what the world system thinks...most Believers don't...

but again...I do suggest...as concerned "adults"...we should consider the age appropriateness of the OP...

so then "Truth" is age limited?

[Floatingaxe]

so then "Truth" is age limited?


No, but as the young OP began the thread in earnest of getting good advice from like-minded people, all of a sudden it becomes a debate with someone who comes in here and declares that the perversion in question is not a sin. That is unconscionable, and an immoral thing to do, in my opinion.

[Cris413]

so then "Truth" is age limited?
I dunno...would you tell a five year old about your adult adventures? Hand him a beer and talk about your date last night?

Would you talk to a 2 year old using the same vocabulary or subject matter as you would talking to 42 year old?

...truth...given in terms of how age appropriate...is still truth...just applying common sense and responsibility in delivering it.

[MoNiCa4316]

What we have here...adults...is a 14 year old looking for a way to deal with her 12 year old friend's sexuality...

Wake up those of you who are asleep at the wheel here. I haven't read through the entire thread...but I've read enough...

Lizzie, sweetie...You need to talk to your mom about this. If that's not possible for whatever reason...you need to talk to a trusted ADULT... Is your friend someone you know in person...or online? Either way you need to talk about this with an adult in person.

This is a situation you are not emotionally mature enough to deal with all by yourself.

If your 12 year old friend is having sexual identity issues...or is emotionally hurting.... A trusted ADULT needs to be made aware of it.

In the meantime, sweetie, keep your friend in prayer...and be her friend. Don't worry about what you consider her sin is....God knows all about it.

Again...pray for her...be her friend...and talk to a trusted adult about this situation...in person.

:thumbsup: :amen:

[Waddell]

No, but as the young OP began the thread in earnest of getting good advice from like-minded people, all of a sudden it becomes a debate with someone who comes in here and declares that the perversion in question is not a sin. That is unconscionable, and an immoral thing to do, in my opinion.

So then, this condemnation is not "sin"?

[staff edit]

[IisJustMe]

So then, this condemnation is not "sin"? How then are you not in league with the devil?How can preaching biblical truth be "in league with the devil"? He doesn't do that, in my experience.

[Nadiine]

The callous and blaming attitude shown by some of the responses here is exactly the attitude that kills young homosexuals.

They are NOT more accepted today than ever before--that should be obvious by the uncaring attitude you display.

Opposites of Jesus say and do these hurtful things and I think we're all quite aware of it.
Jesus didn't condone sin either - He said His mission was to 'bring sinners TO REPENTANCE". Not leave people in the same condition He found them in.

Your posts condone sexual sin and promote it - as if that's helpful to young people? The reason we're pointing out what sin is, is becuz you're refusing to call it what it is.
We don't walk up to people & start announcing what sin is as if it's a daily topic. But when people like you who claim God come in & announce that sinful lifestyles are GOOD for people, then we speak up against it.

Don't even try to characterize US as the "bad people" in this. The bible is clear & we promote the truth God gave us.
I feel much better standing where I stand than where you are; telling youth that God's just fine with gay [unmarried] sex.
:doh: :swoon:

Isaiah 5:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=5&verse=20&version=49&context=verse)
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness;
Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!


I'd also add that it's people with your type of attitude that keeps kids in BONDAGE to their sin addictions.
ALL sexual sin is bondage; try promoting abstinance if you want to claim Christ & care about people.

& yes, homosexuality IS more accepted today than it ever has been.

[IisJustMe]

I don't know, but what you just said tells me that you have no effective response to what I said.Either you haven't read my post before that one, or you chose to ignore it. Either way, what does that say about you? I didn't ask what you had to say about me.

[LJSGM]

I don't care if she's bi. I think that some homosexuals are the nicest people in the world, but it is so hard for me to tell them i don't like the "action" they are doing without them getting all offended and then them thinking that I hate them... I feel obliged to let them all know how I feel about it, I am not going to accept a sinful worldly action just because I don't want to offend someone, but how do i let her know that i still like her like a friend the exact same way but don't condone homosexuality? she just imed me so if someone can give me a reply fast....
You need you give her the gospel first, the Holy Spirit will convict her of her sins, and if she accepts christ as her savior, she will naturally repent of them.

No need to pick out sins that are more obvious to you and try to get her to stop those, it won't work because the gospel hasn't been working in her heart.

Now, it's a different senario if she proclaims to be a christian.

[Zecryphon]

It is a good, functioning body that operates scripturally and when a person refuses correction, and does not have remorse or "godly sorrow", that church must send him out.


A church that refuses to properly shepherd the sheep, and deal with sin in its membership, leaving them open to pollution, is a church that has serious problems.

We may have the odd homosexual in our church, but they would be either unsaved, charlatans, or they are those who are open and honest and struggling with their sin and seeking help. The unsaved will either receive Christ and gain healing. The unrepentant hear the truth and GO.

"It is a good, functioning body that operates scripturally and when a person refuses correction, and does not have remorse or "godly sorrow", that church must send him out."

Yes, that's true, but we don't know if that is the case here. I think what we have here is a girl who's concerned for her friend, who probably is a very nice girl, because she's been told by society it's okay to be gay or bi, but in the scriptures realizes it isn't. So of course, she's confused.

"A church that refuses to properly shepherd the sheep, and deal with sin in its membership, leaving them open to pollution, is a church that has serious problems."

True, and we're not dealing with a church here, but one individual who is concerned for her friend.

"We may have the odd homosexual in our church, but they would be either unsaved, charlatans, or they are those who are open and honest and struggling with their sin and seeking help. The unsaved will either receive Christ and gain healing. The unrepentant hear the truth and GO."

So if you do have the lone homosexual in your church, which group do you automatically lump them in with? The unrepentants, the charlatans or the struggling with their sin Christians?

[Black_Ivy]

Your friend ain't Bi, your friend is stupid. And anyone who coddles that frame of thought, is stupid too.

That's what I think, and I think I'm just as entitled to say so as anybody else.

Aint that right according to the rules?

It is my firm belief that if your speech begins with, "your friend is stupid" to a 14 year-old girl that you do not know, THAT should be a red flag that what you are about to say needs extra proof-reading by your brain-neurons....

I say this to the thread in general: Regardless of a person's views of homosexuality, it's my opinion that it is EXTREMELY cruel to use them as an excuse to treat people in bad or negative ways or say demeaning things to them. Let's say homosexuality is a sin; let's say it's wrong. That shouldn't be used as a reason to attack the person. I see these pictures and videos of people walking down the street with signs saying, God hates [insert demeaning word]. People are beat up, called names, slammed into the ground, and pushed out of neighborhoods for being gay. A friend's friend of mine is in a mental hospital for what people did to her. I just really hope people can find a comfortable line they can draw for themselves, where they can hate the sin, but not be emotionally hurtful to the person. That's what the OP wanted to do! I think some of you could learn a thing or two from her

[IisJustMe]

"Your friend is stupid." THAT is a red flag that what you are about to say needs extra proof reading by your brain neurons...I can't diagnose anyone over the Internet but there's something else going on here. Best leave it alone for now. Speaking professionally (see my profile). Thanks

[Zecryphon]

I find it interesting you want to take issue with one statement (lifted out of context, no less) and you won't deal with the truth that is being shared with you by all the posters on this thread. What does that tell us about you?
It tells me he's never heard of hermeneutics, let alone studied them. LOL

[Zecryphon]

It isn't bigotry to teach another about sin.

The person you love to death with your tolerance will not be thanking you as he is sentenced to hell.

The one I pull from the fire will be thanking me.
Perhaps with a showing of love, the person they are talking to will want to know more about the source of their love. I'm sure you reallize that you actually don't pull anyone from the fires of Hell. It's Jesus who does that.

[IisJustMe]

It tells me he's never heard of hermeneutics, let alone studied them. LOLVery discerning. LOL

[Cris413]

You need you give her the gospel first, the Holy Spirit will convict her of her sins, and if she accepts christ as her savior, she will naturally repent of them.

No need to pick out sins that are more obvious to you and try to get her to stop those, it won't work because the gospel hasn't been working in her heart.

Now, it's a different senario if she proclaims to be a christian.
The OP is 14...her friend is 12...

How are we to determine if this child of 12 has even reached the age of accountability yet?

[Zecryphon]

The OP is 14...her friend is 12...

How are we to determine if this child of 12 has even reached the age of accountability yet?
Age of accountability? I've heard there is no such thing, only an age of responsiblity. Generally it's 12 for girls and 13 for boys, that's generally. I've always found it interesting that the age for boys and girls mirrored the ages that Jewish boys and girls have their Bat and Bar Mitzvahs repsectively.

[LJSGM]

The OP is 14...her friend is 12...

How are we to determine if this child of 12 has even reached the age of accountability yet?
I'm not so sure of the whole "age of accoutability" thing. It's no where in the bible. Just terminology brought about by those that believe in the eternal torment doctrine. They couldn't condemn children to an eternity of torture of course.

Now, I would give her the gospel just in case. I don't really see the harm in it. Even children need to know about Christ, even if it is for after they reach their "age of accountibility." I made the choice for Christ at the age of seven, so it is possible.

[Zecryphon]

I'm not so sure of the whole "age of accoutability" thing. It's no where in the bible. Just terminology brought about by those that believe in the eternal torment doctrine. They couldn't condemn children to an eternity of torture of course.

Now, I would give her the gospel just in case. I don't really see the harm in it. Even children need to know about Christ, even if it is for after they reach their "age of accountibility." I made the choice for Christ at the age of seven, so it is possible.
The age of accountability phrase also ties into the pre-millenial rapture theory. All the kids who are 12 and under are supposedly raptured. Anyone over that age who is not in Christ is left behind. Thank you, Dr. LaHaye for that piece of fiction. LOL

[LJSGM]

The age of accountability phrase also ties into the pre-millenial rapture theory. All the kids who are 12 and under are supposedly raptured. Anyone over that age who is not in Christ is left behind. Thank you, Dr. LaHaye for that piece of fiction. LOL
I also don't believe in the "rapture."

But I do believe in a "resurrection" :)

[Zecryphon]

I also don't believe in the "rapture."

But I do believe in a "resurrection" :)
I think there will be a rapture, I just believe Jesus will return for His followers on the last day as opposed to right before the tribulation period.

[LJSGM]

I think there will be a rapture, I just believe Jesus will return for His followers on the last day as opposed to right before the tribulation period.
a whole other subject, et?

[Cris413]

I'm not so sure of the whole "age of accoutability" thing. It's no where in the bible. Just terminology brought about by those that believe in the eternal torment doctrine. They couldn't condemn children to an eternity of torture of course.

Now, I would give her the gospel just in case. I don't really see the harm in it. Even children need to know about Christ, even if it is for after they reach their "age of accountibility." I made the choice for Christ at the age of seven, so it is possible.
Age of awareness may be more appropriate...

Age of understanding...

Take your pick...

I teach 5 year olds at church...and I'm always encouraged by their understandings...even at such a young age...

but who's to say what age awareness comes about of different things is...I don't believe a numerical value has anything to do with it...

...and I'm not talking about the Rapture either...

simply...what is this 12 year olds maturity level...her awareness...her emotional maturity to even understand such things...

Children are never too young to be taught about the Lord...We read bible stories to toddlers...we teach according to a certain level of understanding demonstrated by those being taught.

Even adults...spiritually immature...need milk before meat...

[Zecryphon]

a whole other subject, et?
Oh I hope so, I can't debate the rapture here. LOL

[Cris413]

Age of accountability? I've heard there is no such thing, only an age of responsiblity. Generally it's 12 for girls and 13 for boys, that's generally. I've always found it interesting that the age for boys and girls mirrored the ages that Jewish boys and girls have their Bat and Bar Mitzvahs repsectively.
I've met people in their 40's that haven't reached the age of responsibility yet...

But I digress....Paul addresses this in 1 Corinthians 7...children of a believing parent are holy...

...at some point...I would have to consider...the child would come to an age of awareness...accountability...responsibility to make their own choice to accept/reject Jesus Christ.

[Cris413]

I'm not so sure of the whole "age of accoutability" thing. It's no where in the bible. Just terminology brought about by those that believe in the eternal torment doctrine. They couldn't condemn children to an eternity of torture of course.

I don't know about that...age of accoutability is not specifically mentioned anywhere in Scripture I know of...

however, Paul does address the importance of a believing parent in the home as it relates to the children in 1 Corinthians

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.



I'm starting a new thread if anyone would like to discuss this particular topic further...

[Floatingaxe]

So if you do have the lone homosexual in your church, which group do you automatically lump them in with? The unrepentants, the charlatans or the struggling with their sin Christians?

That's the call the person makes, isn't it? We, working under the control of the Holy Spirit, are to be bringing these people to repentance. The Word tells us how to do it.

It's very difficult to follow the instructions of Paul in removing people, but God knows what He's doing. That form of discipline is in order to do two things: bring the sinner to repentance, and protect the flock.

[Floatingaxe]

Perhaps with a showing of love, the person they are talking to will want to know more about the source of their love. I'm sure you reallize that you actually don't pull anyone from the fires of Hell. It's Jesus who does that.

Yes, I know that. I am hoping that you understand what I mean. God uses people to love people and tell them truth.

[Zecryphon]

That's the call the person makes, isn't it? We, working under the control of the Holy Spirit, are to be bringing these people to repentance. The Word tells us how to do it.

It's very difficult to follow the instructions of Paul in removing people, but God knows what He's doing. That form of discipline is in order to do two things: bring the sinner to repentance, and protect the flock.
"That's the call the person makes, isn't it?"

Yes and which one would YOU make?

"We, working under the control of the Holy Spirit, are to be bringing these people to repentance. The Word tells us how to do it."

The Holy Spirit is the one that brings them to repentance not us. He uses us as tools, but we can never take credit for His work.

"It's very difficult to follow the instructions of Paul in removing people, but God knows what He's doing. That form of discipline is in order to do two things: bring the sinner to repentance, and protect the flock."

I used Matthew 18 for church discipline, which scripture are you talking about with Paul being the author?

[Zecryphon]

Yes, I know that. I am hoping that you understand what I mean. God uses people to love people and tell them truth.
Sometimes with the level of raw emotion you display in your posts, it's hard to tell exactly what you mean. I know you know this stuff and the differences between us and Jesus and who does what, but sometimes it can be read as you taking credit for the work of the Godhead.

[Floatingaxe]

Sometimes with the level of raw emotion you display in your posts, it's hard to tell exactly what you mean. I know you know this stuff and the differences between us and Jesus and who does what, but sometimes it can be read as you taking credit for the work of the Godhead.

Well, of course that is utterly wrong. I take no credit for what God does through me. It is Jesus only.

That being said, we are given the authority of Jesus Christ.

I am surprised at you, Zecryphon.

Titus 3:10
If people are causing divisions among you, give a first and second warning. After that, have nothing more to do with them.



People who step into sin, and willfully do so, refusing correction, and are unrepentant--they are dividing, polluting and diluting the body--they must go.


1Corinthians 5:1-7
I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you—something that even pagans don’t do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother. You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.

Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church. I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns. Your boasting about this is terrible. Don’t you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old “yeast” by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.

[Waddell]

How can preaching biblical truth be "in league with the devil"? He doesn't do that, in my experience.

Just who is the accuser of the brethern?

You? I? The poster? Who is it that accuses?

[Nadiine]

So if you do have the lone homosexual in your church, which group do you automatically lump them in with? The unrepentants, the charlatans or the struggling with their sin Christians?

I'm butting my opinion in here lol.

As far as a 'lone homosexual' in a church, I see that as no different than a 'lone liar' in my church, a 'lone adulterer', 'glutton', 'fornicator'... etc etc.

I'm wondering how we're spotting this lone homosexual; do they have signs on their backs that announces their lifestyle? :scratch: :confused:

Anyways, they are to be treated with love, gentleness, respect and generosity like every other person that walks thru the doors.

The only time harsh treatment should be given (ie. discipline or rebuke or any other negative) is if they've come with an agenda to work within the church to promote that sin and seek acceptance of it from the congregation. At that point, they aren't seeking, they're infiltrating as a wolf to do harm & the church has to be protected from them.

Outside of that, they're like anyone else who comes in and needs the Lord; we should never 'sort people out' by their sins and I wouldn't dream of it. :swoon:

:preach: (steps off box) :holy:

[Waddell]

I'm butting my opinion in here lol.

As far as a 'lone homosexual' in a church, I see that as no different than a 'lone liar' in my church, a 'lone adulterer', 'glutton', 'fornicator'... etc etc.

I'm wondering how we're spotting this lone homosexual; do they have signs on their backs that announces their lifestyle? :scratch: :confused:

Anyways, they are to be treated with love, gentleness, respect and generosity like every other person that walks thru the doors.

The only time harsh treatment should be given (ie. discipline or rebuke or any other negative) is if they've come with an agenda to work within the church to promote that sin and seek acceptance of it from the congregation. At that point, they aren't seeking, they're infiltrating as a wolf to do harm & the church has to be protected from them.

Outside of that, they're like anyone else who comes in and needs the Lord; we should never 'sort people out' by their sins and I wouldn't dream of it. :swoon:

:preach: (steps off box) :holy:


Ummmm, you're so close. Jesus came to "welcome the wolves". We are, or maybe were, "the wolves". Our job is not "taming the sheep", but "welcoming the wolves".

Does that make sense?

Be so very blessed.

[Nadiine]

Ummmm, you're so close. Jesus came to "welcome the wolves". We are, or maybe were, "the wolves". Our job is not "taming the sheep", but "welcoming the wolves".

Does that make sense?

Be so very blessed.
Actually that's not true according to scripture, we're always warned about the wolves & to be aware/beware of them. (incl. false prophets).

There's also this:
2 John 9-11
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed (welcome him):
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


Please do me/us a favor, if you're going to make assertions about scripture, please provide specific verses to support them?
Just making claims in a thread isn't real helpful if you don't provide some foundation for them.
thanks :pink:

[HypnoToad]

Just who is the accuser of the brethern?

You? I? The poster? Who is it that accuses?
Just curious, what is the difference between showing someone they're committing a sin and "accusing"? Jesus told us if we see our brethren sinning, we should go to them and tell them (Mt.18:15).

Ummmm, you're so close. Jesus came to "welcome the wolves". We are, or maybe were, "the wolves". Our job is not "taming the sheep", but "welcoming the wolves"."Welcome" them, perhaps. But, let them go on being "wolves"? Hardly. Jesus said, "go and sin no more."

Further, you condemn this "accusing" as you call it, yet you have no trouble accusing other Christians of being in league with Satan. So, what's the difference between them saying something is sinful, and you saying something is sinful? Why do you condemn others for doing it, then you turn around and do the exact same thing?

[Nadiine]

staff edit - remmoving quoted flame
Anyone who knows my posting style knows that I often use scripture support.

But this doesn't remove your burder based on your assertion. I also gave you a scripture that supports mine.

If you've been hounding me for scripture proof, please show me where, I don't recall any.
Last, don't accuse me of being dishonest becuz you do not know my heart (and you're very wrong).

[IamRedeemed]

Amen!


I'm butting my opinion in here lol.

As far as a 'lone homosexual' in a church, I see that as no different than a 'lone liar' in my church, a 'lone adulterer', 'glutton', 'fornicator'... etc etc.

I'm wondering how we're spotting this lone homosexual; do they have signs on their backs that announces their lifestyle? :scratch: :confused:

Anyways, they are to be treated with love, gentleness, respect and generosity like every other person that walks thru the doors.

The only time harsh treatment should be given (ie. discipline or rebuke or any other negative) is if they've come with an agenda to work within the church to promote that sin and seek acceptance