"He Shall be Called"

[cavell]

https://www.billygraham.org/DMag_art...?ArticleID=108 (https://www.billygraham.org/DMag_article.asp?ArticleID=108)


The Bible says that He shall be called:

"Wonderful"
Our English translations of that word don't communicate the full strength of the name, because the verb tense sounds odd. Rather than the adjective "wonderful," the word is the verb "wonder."

In Judges 13:18, the English version, God says that His name is "beyond understanding."(5) But in Judges 13:18, in Hebrew, the word used is "wonder": "Why do you ask My name? It is Wonder." It's too marvelous for comprehension, too outstanding for words.

The Old Testament usage of the word "wonder" tells us that Jesus is not Someone who is merely extraordinary; He is One who in His very Person and Being is Wonder. He is that which surpasses human thought and power. He is God Himself.

"Counselor"
There's a certain uniqueness about the name Counselor. It suggests that this One has no need to be surrounded by counselors and advisers as human kings are. Rather, Jesus Himself is the Counselor.

"The mighty God"
In Isaiah 10:21 we read, "A remnant of Jacob will return to the mighty God."(6) The word in Hebrew is "èl gibbor." In Hebrew "èl" means God and "gibbor" means Hero. Jesus will be the Hero God. That's exactly who He is. He invades us in time and space to rescue us! Our Hero.

"The everlasting Father"
He's not longing for the empty nest—"Oh, when are these children going to leave?" When our earthly fathers die, we might say, "I remember Dad." God is the Dad who never ceases to be our Father. Our dads are our fathers only for
a time, but He is everlasting.

"The Prince of Peace"
The greatness of the name of Jesus is established in peace rather than through war. Think about the people throughout history whose greatness resulted because of war. George Washington led the revolutionary troops to battle. Abraham Lincoln held the United States together by moving the Union Armies forward. Napoleon Bonaparte. William the Conqueror. All became great in battle.

The greatness of God's name is not in the establishment of warfare but in the establishment of peace. Not just a cessation of hostilities but a restoration of relationship.

Today in the world there is the potential for the outbreak of further and greater hostilities and violence than we have ever seen before. The hostilities are not new; they have been there for centuries. Even now, there are those who would come to the table to try to negotiate peace. What they're really trying to negotiate is a cease-fire. It's the best that they can do. For there to be peace, all the memories of hostilities past would need to be taken away. The parties would have to come to the table to seek, not cease-fire, but relationship.

In our relationship with Christ, Jesus says that all the hostilities between Him and us can end, because He has taken away all of the wrongs that have caused the hostilities. So we can have peace. God says, "I'd like to have peace with you."

What Christmas Is All About
Throughout time God has come to us saying, "I want to give you My heart. I want to give you My life. I took on human form. I placed Myself in a manger. I grew up to suffer and die for you. I did all that to tell you how much I love you."

And throughout time the voice of the Master asks us, "Won't you love Me too?"

Christmas is all about His love for us—about His coming for us—about His stooping low for us.

The question is, what will you do about Him? Christ has given us one gift to give back to Him: It's our hearts.

[cavell]

Thanks cavell for the thread here.

It is lovely to be reminded of that great work, the mighty intervention of 'God in Christ', to save all who will believe on Jesus. Planned since the dawn of time!...and before......whew.

Good to be reminded of the basics, the foundation, upon which out Christian faith rests.

Such needs to be preached. "For neither is there Salvation in any other, but God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself" Whew.

MmMm Does this Christian belief still have preference over other 'faith' so called.

We can but wonder today.

[HypnoToad]

Thanks cavell for the thread here.

It is lovely to be reminded of that great work, the mighty intervention of 'God in Christ', to save all who will believe on Jesus. Planned since the dawn of time!...and before......whew.

Good to be reminded of the basics, the foundation, upon which out Christian faith rests.

Such needs to be preached. "For neither is there Salvation in any other, but God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself" Whew.

MmMm Does this Christian belief still have preference over other 'faith' so called.

We can but wonder today.
So, you're complaining because you didn't get any personal recognition?

[cavell]

Not at all Mr Toad.

But such words are 'seasonable' at this time of the year. And from the great Evangelist of our time.

Christian's well enjoy reading such. Even for a second time!

As I see it

[IisJustMe]

I appreciate you enthusiasm, but there are couple misinterpretations and stretches of the imagination in this post, whether they came from Billy Graham's web site or not.Our English translations of that word don't communicate the full strength of the name, because the verb tense sounds odd. Rather than the adjective "wonderful," the word is the verb "wonder."Actually, the New American Standard does translate it "wonderful" in Judges 13:18 and it is the Hebrew word (transliterated) pil'iy and it does, in fact, mean "wonderful" not "wonder."In Isaiah 10:21 we read, "A remnant of Jacob will return to the mighty God."(6) The word in Hebrew is "èl gibbor." In Hebrew "èl" means God and "gibbor" means Hero. Jesus will be the Hero God. That's exactly who He is. He invades us in time and space to rescue us! Our Hero.This is a stretch. The Hebrew word gibbowr is most commonly translated "mighty" as in "mighty men." Might men could be valiant brave men of God, or of evil intent. The proper translation in Isaiah 10:21 is, indeed, "mighty." There is no word translated "hero" in the entire NASB, which is the most literal translation into English in existence."The Prince of Peace"
The greatness of the name of Jesus is established in peace rather than through war.Here is the familiar Hebrew word shalowm, which people love to use in place of the English word "peace" as in absence of war. That is not what shalowm means. It means "completeness, soundness, welfare" and has only a very rarely used connotation of absence of war. In the Hebrew it is a word that is reserved for blessing, seeking the best in health, prosperity and above all else, relationship with God. To use it in the context of war is to miss its point.

Don't get me wrong, your post is very good. I haven't looked at the Graham web site, so I didn't verify these are the things posted there, but if they are, they have jumped to erroneous conclusions and should have done better research.

[cavell]

http://www3.christianforums.com/images/items/gi.gif
http://www3.christianforums.com/images/items/egyptiansandals.gif
http://www3.christianforums.com/images/items/muted-background-blue-0305.gif
http://christianforums.com/clear.gif (http://iisjustme.christianforums.com/)
http://christianforums.com/clear.gif IisJustMe


Thanks for your reply Brother

It is good to hear the thoughts and biblical understanding of others, particularly on the great subject of God's provision for the Salvation of men. Many ways lead to Christ, but only Christ the Door, leads to God.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself"

Many sing the Christmas carols, many read the nativity story, and relating scriptures, ......but only those who know Him, and hearing such, cannot restrain from praise to His Name.

[Victorious1]

There is no word translated "hero" in the entire NASB, which is the most literal translation into English in existence.

I get very concerned when people use a Bible version such as NASB as "thus saith the Lord." That there is no word translated "here" in the entire NASB does not make it so. The NASB is well known for omitting, and changing words within a verse of scripture giving it a whle different meaning, and have omitted entire verses as well. As believers we need take a very close look at the NASB to see just what has been left out, what has been changed and what has been called into question by either the text or the marginal references.

The Hebrew for "Mighty God" is "el" (god) "gibbor" (mighty) and has a broad range of meanings. We see in Brown, Driver, and Briggs. A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, page 42*, on "el" "applied to men of might and rank ... mighty heroes". In various translations this phrase is rendered as: "a divine hero" (Moffatt{Mo}); God-Hero" (New American Bible [NAB]; in battle God-like" (New English Bible [NEB]) and "Leaders of Champion" S. T. Byington ).

[B]Wonderful - Wonder

The Hebrew word translated wonderful is most often used in connection with the miraculous works of God that brought Israel out of Egypt—dividing the sea so that the Israelites could cross over on dry ground and the destruction of the army of Pharaoh by the sea as it pursued Israel to destroy her is called at (Ex 15:1-13, esp. 11; Psa 77)—and the wonders that took place while the nation wondered in the wilderness for the next forty years—the leading by pillar of cloud and fire, the cleaving of the rocks in the wilderness to bring forth water (Psa 78:12-16). All of these mighty miracles are characterized as wonders because they are incomprehensible to man.

According to Edward Young (who believes it ought to be translated Wonderful Counselor) and Delitzsch (who takes the other position) the Hebrew ought to be translated Wonder instead of Wonderful. As Young states it, “Not merely is the Messiah wonderful but He is Himself a Wonder, through and through (Isaiah, vol. 1, 334). Delitzsch says something similar when he wrote: “Not only is this or that wonderful in Him; but He Himself is throughout a wonder…” (Isaiah, 252). The child shall be called Wonder because He incites wonder—amazement—in the hearts of those who behold Him; both friend and foe alike. And when this found its fulfillment in Jesus I would have you to know that they called Him Wonder not just because of His miracles (Matt 13:54; Luke 9:41-43; Acts 2:22) but also because of the teaching that fell from His lips (Matt 7:28; 19:23-25; 22:29-33).

God bless you.

[IisJustMe]

I get very concerned when people use a Bible version such as NASB as "thus saith the Lord." That there is no word translated "here" in the entire NASB does not make it so. The NASB is well known for omitting, and changing words within a verse of scripture giving it a whle different meaning, and have omitted entire verses as well. All right, how's this?? There is no word in the original Greek that means the same thing as the English "hero." Which is the same thing, since again, the NASB regardless of your personal opinion of it, is the most literal direct translation into the English in existence. I won't argue that point with you. I've proven it for myself, and if you disagree, it becomes your problem.

[Victorious1]

All right, how's this?? There is no word in the original Greek that means the same thing as the English "hero." Which is the same thing, since again, the NASB regardless of your personal opinion of it, is the most literal direct translation into the English in existence. I won't argue that point with you. I've proven it for myself, and if you disagree, it becomes your problem.

You have a free will to believe whatever you like but there really is no need to get nasty. :)

God bless you.

[IisJustMe]

You have a free will to believe whatever you like but there really is no need to get nasty. :) God bless you.I wasn't being nasty. I was assuring you that there is no Greek word in the original text with the meaning "hero" and I'm sorry if that's a problem for you.

[cavell]

I appreciate you enthusiasm, but there are couple misinterpretations and stretches of the imagination in this post, whether they came from Billy Graham's web site or not.Actually, the New American Standard does translate it "wonderful" in Judges 13:18 and it is the Hebrew word (transliterated) pil'iy and it does, in fact, mean "wonderful" not "wonder."This is a stretch. The Hebrew word gibbowr is most commonly translated "mighty" as in "mighty men." Might men could be valiant brave men of God, or of evil intent. The proper translation in Isaiah 10:21 is, indeed, "mighty." There is no word translated "hero" in the entire NASB, which is the most literal translation into English in existence.Here is the familiar Hebrew word shalowm, which people love to use in place of the English word "peace" as in absence of war. That is not what shalowm means. It means "completeness, soundness, welfare" and has only a very rarely used connotation of absence of war. In the Hebrew it is a word that is reserved for blessing, seeking the best in health, prosperity and above all else, relationship with God. To use it in the context of war is to miss its point.

Don't get me wrong, your post is very good. I haven't looked at the Graham web site, so I didn't verify these are the things posted there, but if they are, they have jumped to erroneous conclusions and should have done better research.
When the Early Church went out to preach at the command of Jesus, they did just that, with outstanding results.

Research.???.......dear Lord this is gospel. There is only one gospel!! All Christians ought to be able to tell the story.........in their own words

Pedantic nitpickers are the bane of gospel preaching today.

[IisJustMe]

Research.???.......dear Lord this is gospel. There is only one gospel!! All Christians ought to be able to tell the story.........in their own wordsDepends on where they "get" the gospel they preach. If they don't know the Bible, they probably aren't preaching the gospel, and that's bad.Pedantic nitpickers are the bane of gospel preaching today.The scariest form of "evangelizing" is from the person who says, "Well, I can't tell you where it says it, but ... " If they "don't know where it says it" they better not try quoting it because they'll get it wrong, and probably misinterpret it to boot. Thinking one is prepared to "tell the story ... in their own words" simply because they're Christian is dangerous to the truth. That approach is what leads to error, like thinking one can lose their salvation, or something equally unbiblical.

[cavell]

I am so glad that our God rules Sovreign over all and in all the affairs of men....Otherwise Christians today would despair. But 'Our God Reigns'.....Indeed.

The Bible makes uncompromisingly clear to all mankind its claim to be the infallible, inerrant Word of the only true and living God. It denounces all other ideas, gods and scriptures as false, as well as the religions they represent.
Of Jesus, God's Word declares, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (Jn 3:36 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Jn+3%3A36)).

Peter told Jewish religious leaders (and was beaten, imprisoned, and killed for testifying to Christ's resurrection):
"There is none other name...given among men whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+4%3A12)).

Such unequivocal, yes simple statements, cannot be misunderstood. Jews would not have been persecuted and killed had they presented Yahweh as just one more god to be added to the Roman Pantheon. Christians were considered an even greater threat because in obedience to Christ they preached the gospel everywhere and thereby "turned the world upside down" (Acts 17:6 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Acts+17%3A6)).

It was their firm proclamation of Christ's claim, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (Jn 14:6 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Jn+14%3A6)), that threatened Caesar and aroused such vicious hatred.

Today, however, to avoid the objectionable exclusivity of their faith, "Christians" often compromise and many ecumenically deny the biblical gospel.

Christianity is a biblical faith. The gospel is a biblical message. It makes no compromise with any of the world's religions.

Anyone is free to invent any new religion-but not free to call it Christianity. That faith is founded upon facts: Scripture, history, and prophecy, all of which are a matter of clear record and none of which can be changed.

[Victorious1]

I wasn't being nasty. I was assuring you that there is no Greek word in the original text with the meaning "hero" and I'm sorry if that's a problem for you.

I detected the anger behind your words, but anyway, I think you should concentrate more on the Hebrew in this case.

God bless you,
Victorious 1

[IisJustMe]

I detected the anger behind your words,You are mistaken, but that's OK.I think you should concentrate more on the Hebrew in this case.My error in leaving out the two-word phrase "and Hebrew" because it also has no word that can accurately be translated "hero." But enough of this. It is trite and without purpose.

[Victorious1]

You are mistaken, but that's OK.My error in leaving out the two-word phrase "and Hebrew" because it also has no word that can accurately be translated "hero." But enough of this. It is trite and without purpose.

I agree that it is trite and w/o purpose but I think you need to study up on the Hebrew so you can understand more about the language. ;)

God bless you,
Victiorious 1

[IisJustMe]

I agree that it is trite and w/o purpose but I think you need to study up on the Hebrew so you can understand more about the language. ;) God bless you, Victiorious 1Do you think five hours in seminary in the Hebrew, and nine in the Greek, might possibly be enough, or do I need more? I can read and write both.

[Victorious1]

Do you think five hours in seminary in the Hebrew, and nine in the Greek, might possibly be enough, or do I need more? I can read and write both.

Sorry, but NO, I honestly do not believe it is enough to qualify you as a Hebrew Scholar.

God bless you,
Victorious e1