Help - Problems In My Church?

[InSearchOfTruth]

I am posting this anonymously so as not to disrespect anyone in my church and in case I am looking at this from the wrong perspective I don't want to shame anyone.

Lately something has just felt "wrong" at my church. For over a year now there have been some individuals causing division, gossip, sexual immorality etc. and it just didn't seem like my pastor did much openly to address it. A sermon here and there, but not much.

I know Christians struggle and are not perfect, but something feels wrong beyond the normal struggles a church experiences with new or weak believers. More than 2 strong Christians and founders of our church have left. I fear things are getting worse and I'd appreciate your thoughts.

The latest is a a situation that seems like BIG trouble and a double standard. Our late 20's early 30's year old worship leader (pastors son) is interested in a 16 yr old girl in our congregation. They have been spending time together alone. The girl makes vague implications then makes a joke out of it. It just looks worse as time goes on.

The situation seems wrong to me. I know that a couple of people have shared their concerns and been met with defensive responses. I have even seen the 2 together in public without a chaperogne.

I realize there may be nothing immoral going on and there probably isn't yet, but it just doesn't seem like a good witness for Jesus Christ.

I can imagine other young girls who might be week in their faith or not saved yet using this relationship as justification for having a relationship with an older man they met online, or at the park etc. And what about the example it sets for the other young men?

Even the secular world recognizes a relationship like this as wrong. Aren't Christians supposed to set a better example? Shouldn't church leadership set an even better example?

Also what could a 30 yr old man have in common with a 16 yr old besides physical attraction? Wouldn't it be more appropriate for him to wait for her to turn 18 before pursuing her? Is it appropriate for a man that age to be courting a girl under 18?

If she were my daughter this would NOT be going on!

I see all sorts of warning signs that I'll not go into here. What I want to know is does this sound inappropriate to any of you or is it just me?

I am losing trust and respect in my pastor and his family. Prayer appreciated.

[Zecryphon]

I am posting this anonymously so as not to disrespect anyone in my church and in case I am looking at this from the wrong perspective I don't want to shame anyone.

Lately something has just felt "wrong" at my church. For over a year now there have been some individuals causing division, gossip, sexual immorality etc. and it just didn't seem like my pastor did much openly to address it. A sermon here and there, but not much.

I know Christians struggle and are not perfect, but something feels wrong beyond the normal struggles a church experiences with new or weak believers. More than 2 strong Christians and founders of our church have left. I fear things are getting worse and I'd appreciate your thoughts.

The latest is a a situation that seems like BIG trouble and a double standard. Our late 20's early 30's year old worship leader (pastors son) is interested in a 16 yr old girl in our congregation. They have been spending time together alone. The girl makes vague implications then makes a joke out of it. It just looks worse as time goes on.

The situation seems wrong to me. I know that a couple of people have shared their concerns and been met with defensive responses. I have even seen the 2 together in public without a chaperogne.

I realize there may be nothing immoral going on and there probably isn't yet, but it just doesn't seem like a good witness for Jesus Christ.

I can imagine other young girls who might be week in their faith or not saved yet using this relationship as justification for having a relationship with an older man they met online, or at the park etc. And what about the example it sets for the other young men?

Even the secular world recognizes a relationship like this as wrong. Aren't Christians supposed to set a better example? Shouldn't church leadership set an even better example?

Also what could a 30 yr old man have in common with a 16 yr old besides physical attraction? Wouldn't it be more appropriate for him to wait for her to turn 18 before pursuing her? Is it appropriate for a man that age to be courting a girl under 18?

If she were my daughter this would NOT be going on!

I see all sorts of warning signs that I'll not go into here. What I want to know is does this sound inappropriate to any of you or is it just me?

I am losing trust and respect in my pastor and his family. Prayer appreciated.
All pastors regardless of which ministry they oversee are to be "above reproach". They are not to be involved in anything that has the appearance of evil or wrongdoing. What the pastor's son is doing does have the appearance of evil and therefore should be avoided. Now he's probably getting away with it because, well, he's the pastor's son. Nepotism can fly in the church as well as the business world. As for what the two of them can share outside of physical attraction, it is possible, although very unlikely, that they have a deep love of the scriptures and enjoy debating and discussing them in depth.

Since the pastor in question is over 18 he probably feels that he does not need a chaperone when he goes somewhere with this young lady. You have a bad and potentially scandalous situation brewing at your church. The gossip about those two is probably already flying all over the church. If there is a way to ask a question about this situation directly to the elders or the pastor himself, I would do so. Use the comment feedback card that should be located in the pew.

[Nadiine]

I agree w/ Zec.

I just read the verse this morning to avoid even the appearance of any wrongdoing/evil. We're to do all we can to avoid things that people can construe or assume are sin. (please don't run wild with the literalities on how that restricts us - or freaky people that can judge anything as evil etc.).

Male worship leaders have a responsibility and she's only 16. :eek: :help: :swoon:


Just to let you know that you aren't looking at it in the wrong way - that is what it looks like and it's opening the door to trouble in a few ways and should be dealt with.
I really do pray God works in this and keeps it from blowing out of proportion & harming people.
:groupray:

[AllTalkNoAction]

You should speak to his dad, the Pastor, a.s.a.p.
Make the points you made here.

I'd be interested to hear what he says.

[Cabal]

I agree with Alltalk.

Seeing as it's the pastor's son, your concerns shouldn't take long to travel down the chain of command, as it were.

While I'm generally in favour of relationships transcending age differences - let's at least keep it legal.

http://xkcd.com/314/

I personally would recommend using the equation in this cartoon.

[jive4005]

I'll be praying God's strength and wisdom (and patience) for you during these trying times. Let His will be done, let His love flow, let Him rule!

rev

[Mathetes the kerux]

I am posting this anonymously so as not to disrespect anyone in my church and in case I am looking at this from the wrong perspective I don't want to shame anyone.

Lately something has just felt "wrong" at my church. For over a year now there have been some individuals causing division, gossip, sexual immorality etc. and it just didn't seem like my pastor did much openly to address it. A sermon here and there, but not much.

I know Christians struggle and are not perfect, but something feels wrong beyond the normal struggles a church experiences with new or weak believers. More than 2 strong Christians and founders of our church have left. I fear things are getting worse and I'd appreciate your thoughts.

The latest is a a situation that seems like BIG trouble and a double standard. Our late 20's early 30's year old worship leader (pastors son) is interested in a 16 yr old girl in our congregation. They have been spending time together alone. The girl makes vague implications then makes a joke out of it. It just looks worse as time goes on.

The situation seems wrong to me. I know that a couple of people have shared their concerns and been met with defensive responses. I have even seen the 2 together in public without a chaperogne.

I realize there may be nothing immoral going on and there probably isn't yet, but it just doesn't seem like a good witness for Jesus Christ.

I can imagine other young girls who might be week in their faith or not saved yet using this relationship as justification for having a relationship with an older man they met online, or at the park etc. And what about the example it sets for the other young men?

Even the secular world recognizes a relationship like this as wrong. Aren't Christians supposed to set a better example? Shouldn't church leadership set an even better example?

Also what could a 30 yr old man have in common with a 16 yr old besides physical attraction? Wouldn't it be more appropriate for him to wait for her to turn 18 before pursuing her? Is it appropriate for a man that age to be courting a girl under 18?

If she were my daughter this would NOT be going on!

I see all sorts of warning signs that I'll not go into here. What I want to know is does this sound inappropriate to any of you or is it just me?

I am losing trust and respect in my pastor and his family. Prayer appreciated.
Sometimes we are called to confront ills in the Body . . . in all actuality we are called to be involved in Church discipline (Mat 18).

However, against leadership, Paul says we cannot bring an accusation against an elder w/o the testimony of 2+ witnesses. But if you are following Mat 18 . . . then you will have 2+ witnesses after the second step. But you must confirm these things yourself . . . NO HEAR SAY.

It does sound shady . . . and knowing the sin nature we all have and the defensiveness instead of humility . . . I would get involved. Esp. if the Spirit is prompting your heart. If it is like you say . . . sexual sin is not far away and it is only a matter of time until it pervades the church (either by others succumbing to the same . . . or just by the wide reaching effects of sexual sin in the leadership where everybody becomes affected by bitterness and faithlessness etc).

If your advances are met with resistance . . . leave. If you stay . . . you run the risk of hurt and infection in your own family (esp. with little kids). Get to another committed Body of believers.

[jive4005]

... just make sure that if and when you DO leave... it is of God and not of you.

rev

[zeke37]

Our late 20's early 30's year old worship leader (pastors son) is interested in a 16 yr old girl in our congregation.

isn't that illegal....I'd call the cops.

[InSearchOfTruth]

All pastors regardless of which ministry they oversee are to be "above reproach". They are not to be involved in anything that has the appearance of evil or wrongdoing. What the pastor's son is doing does have the appearance of evil and therefore should be avoided. Now he's probably getting away with it because, well, he's the pastor's son. Nepotism can fly in the church as well as the business world. As for what the two of them can share outside of physical attraction, it is possible, although very unlikely, that they have a deep love of the scriptures and enjoy debating and discussing them in depth.

Since the pastor in question is over 18 he probably feels that he does not need a chaperone when he goes somewhere with this young lady. You have a bad and potentially scandalous situation brewing at your church. The gossip about those two is probably already flying all over the church. If there is a way to ask a question about this situation directly to the elders or the pastor himself, I would do so. Use the comment feedback card that should be located in the pew.

Thank you. Do you happen to remember the verse that says we are to be "above reproach" I think this is a very good point.

In regards to the two of them possibly sharing a love for scripture, maybe she will feel that way someday, but I don't see it in her now. Not considering her language, music she listens too (rap with bad language) and behavior just months ago. I don't think the man involved is aware of these things either.

[InSearchOfTruth]

I agree w/ Zec.

I just read the verse this morning to avoid even the appearance of any wrongdoing/evil. We're to do all we can to avoid things that people can construe or assume are sin. (please don't run wild with the literalities on how that restricts us - or freaky people that can judge anything as evil etc.).

Male worship leaders have a responsibility and she's only 16. :eek: :help: :swoon:


Just to let you know that you aren't looking at it in the wrong way - that is what it looks like and it's opening the door to trouble in a few ways and should be dealt with.
I really do pray God works in this and keeps it from blowing out of proportion & harming people.
:groupray:

Thank you for the information and support. I really don't want to be the one to cause trouble and was hoping this would all resolve itself. I agree with everything you've said here and am going to continue praying for everyone in the situation.

[InSearchOfTruth]

You should speak to his dad, the Pastor, a.s.a.p.
Make the points you made here.

I'd be interested to hear what he says.
I don't know how many others have spoken to him already, I know of 2 and the conversations did not go well.

I am praying for God to intervene and guide our congregation as well as myself in this. He's going to have to give me strength and the words, I can't seem to find them myself.

[InSearchOfTruth]

I'll be praying God's strength and wisdom (and patience) for you during these trying times. Let His will be done, let His love flow, let Him rule!

rev
Amen! Thank you!

[InSearchOfTruth]

... just make sure that if and when you DO leave... it is of God and not of you.

rev
That's a hard one for me Rev. I have felt like something was wrong or missing from my church for a while. The seeing some of the elders leave such a small, new church I know I need God's to show me whether He wants me here or else where. I'd much rather see Jesus resolve the issue and restore everyone involved.

[InSearchOfTruth]

isn't that illegal....I'd call the cops.
I don't know if I could take that step unless I had good reason to believe things were physical. Everyone in my church is in need of God's guidance.

[InSearchOfTruth]

Thank you all for the advice, prayers and support. God bless you.

[indagroove]

... just make sure that if and when you DO leave... it is of God and not of you.

rev
agreed. Remember. Speak out of love. He may be a leader, but is also one of the flock.

[Mathetes the kerux]

Thank you. Do you happen to remember the verse that says we are to be "above reproach" I think this is a very good point.

In regards to the two of them possibly sharing a love for scripture, maybe she will feel that way someday, but I don't see it in her now. Not considering her language, music she listens too (rap with bad language) and behavior just months ago. I don't think the man involved is aware of these things either.
1 Tim 3 and Titus 1.

[zeke37]

I don't know if I could take that step unless I had good reason to believe things were physical. Everyone in my church is in need of God's guidance.

Yes, we all are in need of God's guidance...

Christ said...

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

if he has intentions, it is the same thing...and if she is 16, and he is 30ish...there is a serious problem that needs to be addressed...

does he have the parents permission to see her in a romantic way? Where I live, it is illegal for a 16 yer old to date a man of 30. And in Christ's eyes, the youth pastor's thoughts are the same as the action.

But he can be forgiven and move on with his life....

at least that is my take on it....


if a youth pastor starts dating the youths that he is pastoring, don't you see that as a huge problem? One that needs to be dealt with? She is not yet a women, and is most likely immature, as most 16 year olds are....

I pray for your situation, and ask you to do the same....

in His service
c

[VCViking]

If your advances are met with resistance . . . leave. Get to another committed Body of believers.


:amen: :amen:

[jive4005]

I'd much rather see Jesus resolve the issue and restore everyone involved.

Sometimes God "allows" things (as opposed to making them happen Himself). I don't know what He has in mind for your church... restoring?... healing?... fixing?... but I do know that if you go to Him and ask Him about YOU, He will certainly answer and guide... in HIS timimg. So, you just do what your heart tells you to do... it'll work out (not nessessarily how we want or expect it!).

rev

[IamRedeemed]

Better yet, perhaps speak to HER Dad! :thumbsup:

PS... I do not think your concern is out of order.



You should speak to his dad, the Pastor, a.s.a.p.
Make the points you made here.

I'd be interested to hear what he says.