Islam converted thousands of Orthodox Christians through slavery

[MariaRegina]

Islam, Slavery and Rape By Jamie Glazov (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/authors.aspx?Name=Jamie%20Glazov)
FrontPageMagazine.com | Friday, November 23, 2007
http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/4CDF1CEC-779C-4699-A123-A8992F4D9219/ef699dbe-fe8b-4e54-adc4-203bacb58d85.gif
Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Bill Warner, the director of the Center for the Study of Political Islam (http://www.cspipublishing.com/) (CSPI) and spokesman for politicalislam.com (http://www.politicalislam.com/). CSPI’s goal is to teach the doctrine of political Islam through its books and it has produced an eleven book series on political Islam. Mr. Warner did not write the CSPI series, but he acts as the agent for a group of scholars who are the authors. The Center’s latest book is The Submission of Women and Slaves, Islamic Duality. (http://www.politicalislam.com/Submission_of_Women_and_Slaves.htm)

(http://www.politicalislam.com/Submission_of_Women_and_Slaves.htm)
FP: Bill Warner, welcome back to Frontpage Magazine. This is the second part in our two-part series with you on the Center’s most recent book. In the first part (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=2ACCD764-5177-4D05-9186-4B9EFE442849) we discussed Islam and its doctrine on the submission of women. In this second and final part we will discuss the matter of slavery. Welcome to Frontpage Interview.


Warner: It is a pleasure to work with Frontpage.


FP: So tell us in general where Islam stands on slavery.


Warner: Islam’s stand on slavery is based on its political principles of submission and duality. The principle of submission could not be clearer. By definition a slave is the most submissive of all people. You become a slave only when you have no more choices. A slave has completely submitted to a master.


The principle of duality is shown by the fact that Islam does not enslave Muslims, only [an arabic word for non-Muslim is censored by CF] (non-Muslims). Since only [an arabic word for non-Muslim is censored by CF] non-Muslims are enslaved, it assures that more of the world submits to Islam.


Islamic slavery is based on the Trilogy of the Koran, the Sira (Mohammed’s life) and the Hadith (the Traditions of Mohammed). All three texts say that slavery is permitted, ethical, desirable and a virtue. There is not one single negative word about slavery.




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Click the URL below for the complete article



http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=16027ED9-FFFE-4E3C-B9B6-30E0F0D980FC

[Lukaris]

Thank you for this article & of course most self styled "tolerant" types (culprits or cowards) would probably call it hate filled. Such is the mass psychological delusion of today in which a so called "thought crime" takes precedence in law enforcement over physical crime (& of course the thoughts that lead to these are not even considered). As far as the concern of so called womens' "advocacy" groups are concerned, I think none better than NOW exemplifies their culpability in dhimmitude. Going to their website & searching for groups like the evengelical Christian "Promise Keepers" renders over 20 pp of hysterical articles; search terms like Islam, sharia, dhimmitude etc. reveals 20 (often) vague individual entries (some years old)

[DarkNLovely]

*bump*

This far too important to become lost in the archives!

[kiwimac]

As did Christians to the Jews at various times. No religion is free from taint.

[MariaRegina]

Re: Muslim slave trade

Would we have had the horrendous slave trade if it were not for the Muslims?

Many of the slaves in America were Orthodox Christians.

In fact, the hymn Amazing Grace is from an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian tone.

[kiwimac]

And most of those who transported slaves to Europe and the US were Christian folk. Islam does not hold a monopoly on wrong-doing, unfortunately.

[the_Abbot]

In fact, the hymn Amazing Grace is from an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian tone.

Whoa! I didn't know that. That is awesome.

[ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs]

And most of those who transported slaves to Europe and the US were Christian folk. Islam does not hold a monopoly on wrong-doing, unfortunately.

Unless those slave traders were Orthodox Christians, your point is kind of moot considering this is the Orthodox forum and we generally don't cop to things done by Catholics and Protestants. Besides, I've never read anything in the New Testament that condoned slavery. The fact that those "Christians" were trafficking in slaves only demonstrates that they were not following Christ's teachings.

[kiwimac]

Which is kind of my point. When we see Christians acting like that we say " Oh well, they were christian in name only." But the OP opines that Islam is like that at a fundamental level, that it is oppressive and supports slavery.

Well so was Christianity, so were the Jews, inter-tribal slavery was also common among the African tribes. Slavery is the result of a complex series of 'things' working together, it cannot simplistically be claimed to be the province of one religion or another.

When we look at other religions we need, IMO, to be very careful what we say, it was not so long ago that Christianity was like that too.

[Akathist]

Folks we have canons that discuss if a slave can be ordained they need the permission of their owner. This is not an endorcement of slavery, but it was not a ruling that all slavery is to be abolished either.

If the law of the land had slavery, the Church dealt with it.

Further, slavery is found to exist prior to the creation of Islam. It was also present in areas where Islam did not exist at the time... such as in Western Europe where people were taken as slaves who were in essence prisoner's of war.

That does not mean that the article in the OP is not true. I would fully believe that Islam converted thousands of Orthodox Christian's through slavery.

It is a fallen world we live in.

[DarkNLovely]

Re: Muslim slave trade

Would we have had the horrendous slave trade if it were not for the Muslims?

Many of the slaves in America were Orthodox Christians.

In fact, the hymn Amazing Grace is from an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian tone.
Nope! Even the European slave tread started with Islam! Slavery got to Africa THROUGH Muslims! That's why many of our ancestors were Muslims. This made it easier for Europeans to come and get slaves. Many also fail to realize that the idea of a black person being less than a white, that you will not find in scripture, comes from Islam, which is odd considering that there are versus against this, but I guess that's one of those things.

As far as Biblical and African slavery, they are vastly different from Islamic slavery. In the former, a slave could work for his freedom, or even put his wnself into slavery to pay off debts! It is a lesser hell than the European and Islamic slave trades that most invinsion when they think off slavery, though just the same. In European and Islamic, you are less then human, destined by God to be the property and tool of the whites and /or the servents of Allah! The Eastern Saharah slave trade, that too few know about, lasted for nearly a thousand years! Countless blacks from all over Africa as well as many whites from Eastern Europe, were sent to be slaves in Arabic countries. Many of our men were castredted and our women made into whores. This is also why many believe so few blacks exist in the Arabian peninsula. "Christian" slavery or rather European slavery went against Biblical standards of all sorts. Even for slavery, which shoulnd't have been done anway when one considers that the civil laws of the old testament were abolished, but I guess that's just one of things too! :doh: But Islamic slavery is right on par with Islam! It violates NO ISLAMIC LAWS! And history proves that it is full of hatred and cruelty! Christians have their own shameful history with the stuff the be learned from. The Muslims need the same! So, reps for Aria! :clap:

Another important fact to mention, is that all the while "Christian" slavery was going on, what else was happening? THE ABOLISHINISTS WERE HAPPENING! Since it started Christians, True Christians, had been speaking out against it. You do not find this in Islam, because to them, it's alright!Please, please look into the ARABIC slave trade and look at that history.

OOO! I found a nice site with these versus on there!

http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles_ca/2004-4-TheScourgeofSlavery.htm

"Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death." Exodus 21:16
The New Testament expressly forbids both the slave trade and slavery itself. ".the Law is made not for the righteous but for Law breakers.for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers." 1 Timothy 1:9-10
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free.for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28
"From one man He made every nation of men." Acts 17:26
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.love your neighbour as yourself." Mark 12:30-31
"Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free." John 8:32
".where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." 2 Cor. 3:17
".proclaim liberty throughout the land." Leviticus 25:10

:crosseo:

[MariaRegina]

Nope! Even the European slave tread started with Islam! Slavery got to Africa THROUGH Muslims! That's why many of our ancestors were Muslims. This made it easier for Europeans to come and get slaves. Many also fail to realize that the idea of a black person being less than a white, that you will not find in scripture, comes from Islam, which is odd considering that there are versus against this, but I guess that's one of those things.

As far as Biblical and African slavery, they are vastly different from Islamic slavery. In the former, a slave could work for his freedom, or even put his wnself into slavery to pay off debts! It is a lesser hell than the European and Islamic slave trades that most invinsion when they think off slavery, though just the same. In European and Islamic, you are less then human, destined by God to be the property and tool of the whites and /or the servents of Allah! The Eastern Saharah slave trade, that too few know about, lasted for nearly a thousand years! Countless blacks from all over Africa as well as many whites from Eastern Europe, were sent to be slaves in Arabic countries. Many of our men were castredted and our women made into whores. This is also why many believe so few blacks exist in the Arabian peninsula. "Christian" slavery or rather European slavery went against Biblical standards of all sorts. Even for slavery, which shoulnd't have been done anway when one considers that the civil laws of the old testament were abolished, but I guess that's just one of things too! :doh: But Islamic slavery is right on par with Islam! It violates NO ISLAMIC LAWS! And history proves that it is full of hatred and cruelty! Christians have their own shameful history with the stuff the be learned from. The Muslims need the same! So, reps for Arian! :clap:

Another important fact to mention, is that all the while "Christian" slavery was going on, what else was happening? THE ABOLISHINISTS WERE HAPPENING! Since it started Christians, True Christians, had been speaking out against it. You do not find this in Islam, because to them, it's alright!Please, please look into the ARABIC slave trade and look at that history.

OOO! I found a nice site with these versus on there!

http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles_ca/2004-4-TheScourgeofSlavery.htm

"Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death." Exodus 21:16
The New Testament expressly forbids both the slave trade and slavery itself. ".the Law is made not for the righteous but for Law breakers.for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers." 1 Timothy 1:9-10
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free.for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28
"From one man He made every nation of men." Acts 17:26
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.love your neighbour as yourself." Mark 12:30-31
"Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free." John 8:32
".where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." 2 Cor. 3:17
".proclaim liberty throughout the land." Leviticus 25:10

:crosseo:

You go girl. :cool:

On topic and right to the heart of the matter.



Reps to you.




OT: And I am going to mail you some prayer beads on Monday. School has been hectic.

[MariaRegina]

Whoa! I didn't know that. That is awesome.

Yes, an Ethiopian Orthodox Bishop was being given a tour of the USA, and they took him to a gospel folk concert where one of the choirs sung a lively rendition of Amazing Grace.

The Bishop immediately said in his own language, "That is one of our tones and they stole it." If you look at the history behind that hymn, the lyric writer owned a ship used to transport slaves. He heard the black slaves singing that tone and added the English lyrics to Amazing Grace.

It is said that after that experience, he never again was involved in the slave trade.

[MariaRegina]

I would appreciate it if this thread would stay on topic
and deal with the Muslim slave trade only and their justification for slavery
and the inhumane treatment of Christians even today in the Sudan.

If the mods will not enforce this simple request, then I request that this thread be closed.

However, if this thread is closed, then the voice of millions of black slaves will be silenced.

See the story of the genocide of hundreds of millions of Blacks, many of whom were our fellow Christians.

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=41638361&postcount=18



If we are to be Christian witnesses, then we must stop this muslim slave trade
which still murders black men, women, and children.
These are human beings who are being massacred.

Hundreds of millions of Black Africans have been killed,
and perhaps a billion have been forced into slavery.

This is a greater number than any other race.

We simply cannot ignore these facts and try to obscure them any longer.

[MariaRegina]

In the Sudan, there are Protestant Christians who are buying the freedom of Sudanese Slaves, many of whom are young children. The girls are often forced to renounce Christianity and then are forced to live in harems as sex slaves.

I have to ask, are any Orthodox Christians here in the USA also involved in ransoming these poor black slaves who have been driven from their homes and farms and forced into slavery after their parents were killed?

And the US press refuses to talk about this.

These are our Christian brothers and sisters who are being beaten and thrown into slavery.

Do we really care?

Is it because they are blacks that their cries are being ignored?

Lord have mercy.

[DarkNLovely]

Yes, an Ethiopian Orthodox Bishop was being given a tour of the USA, and they took him to a gospel folk concert where one of the choirs sung a lively rendition of Amazing Grace.

The Bishop immediately said in his own language, "That is one of our tones and they stole it." If you look at the history behind that hymn, the lyric writer owned a ship used to transport slaves. He heard the black slaves singing that tone and added the English lyrics to Amazing Grace.

It is said that after that experience, he never again was involved in the slave trade.
Not to get off topic, but a movie just came out called Amazing Grace about him. I haven't seen it yet though!

[MariaRegina]

Not to get off topic, but a movie just came out called Amazing Grace about him. I haven't seen it yet though!

No, that is definitely not off topic.

It is very relevant.

Please let me know. I hope the truth is being told and that there is not a coverup of the dirty deeds of Muslims.

Fellow Christians, we must realize that we cannot cover up these crimes that call to God. Slavery is not pretty. Especially when you see the poor Sudanese orphans -- orphaned by their rich Arab Muslim captors. These black children are being beaten and starved to death until they deny Christianity and submit to sexual slavery. Often they remain slaves even after they renounce their faith. Lies and broken promises await them.

[DarkNLovely]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zMGjJJhHvqY

[MariaRegina]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zMGjJJhHvqY


Thank you so very much, DnL, for posting this most excellent review of Black Slavery.

I hope that everyone who comes across this thread will take the time to see this video.

It is a must see.

Reps to you again!

[SpyridonOCA]

I've read that when the Ottoman Turks took over Byzantium, the Orthodox Christians who they didn't kill were forced into slavery. How many times do people need to be told that Islam is not a religion of peace? We shouldn't blame all the problems of the world on Islam, or go on a holy war against that religion, but we should recognize what has been done to Orthodox Christians, and what is happening today, in the name of Islam. We are to love Muslims, just as we are to love all people. But love shouldn't mean a false tolerance that ignores history.

[MariaRegina]

I've read that when the Ottoman Turks took over Byzantium, the Orthodox Christians who they didn't kill were forced into slavery. How many times do people need to be told that Islam is not a religion of peace? We shouldn't blame all the problems of the world on Islam, or go on a holy war against that religion, but we should recognize what has been done to Orthodox Christians, and what is happening today, in the name of Islam. We are to love Muslims, just as we are to love all people. But love shouldn't mean a false tolerance that ignores history.

Amen.

We are to love and to pray for Muslims, but we must also pray for their conversion, that they may see their evil deeds.

[SpyridonOCA]

Christians commit many evil deeds on a regular basis, and have done so throughout history, but in direct contradiction to the teachings of Christ.

[MariaRegina]

:doh:

[SpyridonOCA]

We need to be honest about the sins committed in the name of Christ if we are to bring up persecutions in the name of Islam. As Orthodox Christians, we are to judge ourselves, not others.

[MariaRegina]

Spyridon, you just contradicted yourself between post 20 and post 24. What is going on? Are you anti-Black?

Do you care about the Christian children of Africa?

Yes, of course, we are not to judge others, but on the other hand, neither are we to turn a deaf ear to the plight of millions of the Black Christian people in Africa who are being driven from their homes and their farms.

These Christian parents are often killed with their boys being castrated and conscripted to serve in the army and the girls being circumcised and forced to live a painful life in brothels or in harems. Many of these children die because of the horrible slavery condition in which they are forced to live. And then there is the embarrassing surgery these girls and boys must undergo that is often carried out without anesthesia or modern sanitary methods.

We must speak out ... yes in love, but sometimes the truth hurts.

Take a look at YouTube. The Muslims are denying that they are now involved in slavery, but they are involved in the Sudan and elsewhere.

We need to pray for their conversion.

[SpyridonOCA]

We must speak out ... yes in love, but sometimes the truth hurts.

Of course, we must speak out against all injustice, in the name of love.