Eucumenical Movement? Are you for it or against it?

[Koontzy]

Whats your opinion of the eucumenical movement?Please give reasons why you are or arent for it:)
http://www.oikoumene.org/en/home.html
thats the world council of churches website...I think they are the biggest ones now..

They want Baptists,Catholics,Lutherns,Mormons, ect, ect to all worship together yada yada

I for one am against it.... Just wondering if other baptists thought bout it:)

thanks
God Bless

[Epiphoskei]

Yes to the idea that we should be one. No to the idea that being one means having uniform understandings of nonessentials, or that being one can be achieved through organization or any other human activity.

We are told not to break the bond of the spirit. Not to manufacture a bond.

[david01]

The ecumenical movement is not an effort at uniformitarianism, but quite the opposite. In the effort to achieve unity between varying religious views they toss out dividing doctrines as being non-essential. This can range from things such as the frequency of communion (once a year in the ecumenical movement) to a literal understanding of such things as the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, the Ascension, or the Second Coming.

[WarEagle]

Ecumenism as the Bible describes it, that is, Christians of different groups being united around the essentials of the faith and united for the sake of the Gospel, I am absolutely for it.

As modern day pop-Christianity describes it, that is, one big doctrinal mishmash where we all come together to tell each other how great we are, no way!

There's a word I'm thinking of to describe it that fits perfectly, but there are ladies here.

[Project 86]

I am against it because when I see the "Eucumenical Movement" in action important doctrine always gets thrown out.

[SumTinWong]

I am for the church being one, but not at the expense of truth. Every denomination has a variance from another and i do not think it is honest to try and say we can be one when we are so divided.

[Andy Broadley]

For it

It's time we stopped telling each other that we are wrong and remember that we are all Christians and all part of Gods Church

There will always be areas where different denominations have different beliefs and understandings, but that does not make any of them wrong....just different

The harvest is white and the labourers are few, and the harvest will be gathered much better when the labourers stop trying to knock eight bells out of each other.

We are not commanded to agree with each other on everything. We ARE commanded to love....and that includes loving our brothers and sisters in the Roman catholic Church and other places.

We have all on as it is just fighting the devil and sin, without fighting each other

Good on the WCC

[Willo]

I am against it because when I see the "Eucumenical Movement" in action important doctrine always gets thrown out.
Amen!

[WarEagle]

For it

It's time we stopped telling each other that we are wrong and remember that we are all Christians and all part of Gods Church

But what if somebody is wrong? What if they're not a part of God's church?

There will always be areas where different denominations have different beliefs and understandings, but that does not make any of them wrong....just different

I see. So, let's say that there is a religious group that believes that Jesus sacrifice doesn't really cleanse from sin, but just gives one the opportunity to go to a place after death where they can cleanse their own sins by suffering and, after a while, God will decide that they've suffered enough and let them into Heaven.

How are those of us who believe in the sufficiency of Christ's atonement and the exclusivity of Christ's atonement as the only avenue of salvation to have any sort of meaningful Christian-Christian fellowship with them?

Or let's say that there is a religious group that, instead of recognizing the authority of God's word, instead installs a sinful, fallible man to sit "in the seat of Christ" and declare doctrine to be true or false.

What is our common ground with them when we submit to the authority of God's word and they don't?

How about a group who routinely prays to the dead, even though the Bible condemns it? Are we really supposed to come alongside them?

I understand that there's even a group who believes that Mary is "co-redemptrix" and "co-mediatrix".

What sort of fellowship can we have with a group who believes such a blasphemous thing?

How about those who deny the Trinity? Are we also one with them?

I agree that we shouldn't shut somebody out because of disagreements over non-essentials and matters of adiopheron, but the truth is, there are some things that are just too important to compromise on.

The harvest is white and the labourers are few, and the harvest will be gathered much better when the labourers stop trying to knock eight bells out of each other.

See above. How are we to "co-labor" with those who don't believe the same Gospel? How are we to cooperate with those who's idea of "evangelism" is trying to get people into their church, apart from which, they believe no one can be saved?

We are not commanded to agree with each other on everything. We ARE commanded to love....and that includes loving our brothers and sisters in the Roman catholic Church and other places.

Standing up for truth and no compromising isn't the same as not loving.

[Andy Broadley]

But what if somebody is wrong? What if they're not a part of God's church?

Says who? You? WCC? Or Jesus? Who said "Judge ye not lest ye also be judged" And also said "This is my commandment to you that you should love one another as I have loved you"

I see. So, let's say that there is a religious group that believes that Jesus sacrifice doesn't really cleanse from sin, but just gives one the opportunity to go to a place after death where they can cleanse their own sins by suffering and, after a while, God will decide that they've suffered enough and let them into Heaven.

Judge ye not......we agree to differ. Who are you or I to tell othger believers that they are wrong? Christianity is not about being right, it's about being in relationship.

How are those of us who believe in the sufficiency of Christ's atonement and the exclusivity of Christ's atonement as the only avenue of salvation to have any sort of meaningful Christian-Christian fellowship with them?

It's really very easy. YOU LOVE.


Or let's say that there is a religious group that, instead of recognizing the authority of God's word, instead installs a sinful, fallible man to sit "in the seat of Christ" and declare doctrine to be true or false.

I do not recognise the Pope as infallable. I respect Joe Ratzinger greatly, but having him as Pope, or indeed having the position of Pope in existence, in no way prevents me from sharing with my Catholic brothers and sisters.


What is our common ground with them when we submit to the authority of God's word and they don't?

They don't? Since when? Says who?

Your common ground....Jesus (what else do you want?)

How about a group who routinely prays to the dead, even though the Bible condemns it? Are we really supposed to come alongside them?

Yes:) Nobody is asking you to do it.

Nothing there stopping you having fellowship with your Catholic brothers and sisters:)

I understand that there's even a group who believes that Mary is "co-redemptrix" and "co-mediatrix".

Nobody is asking us all to agree on everything. Jesus does not command us to do that

What sort of fellowship can we have with a group who believes such a blasphemous thing?

LOVE:clap: Come along to OBOB with me and spend a few weeks there. Fellowship is easy, and very rewarding:)


How about those who deny the Trinity? Are we also one with them?

Those who do not recognise the Trinity are not generally classed as Christian (except by themselves)

However, we are still commanded to love them


I agree that we shouldn't shut somebody out because of disagreements over non-essentials and matters of adiopheron, but the truth is, there are some things that are just too important to compromise on.

We are not trying to compromise. We are trying to share together as parts of the body of Christ.



See above. How are we to "co-labor" with those who don't believe the same Gospel? How are we to cooperate with those who's idea of "evangelism" is trying to get people into their church, apart from which, they believe no one can be saved?

There are some differences between various denominations, but generally we agree on most of the important stuff. We co labour in order to win for Christ those who have no idea of Gods love.




Standing up for truth and no compromising isn't the same as not loving


Jesus said "I am the way the TRUTH and the life"

We are all trying to win the war against sin for Jesus

Roman Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Salvationist, Methodist, Pentecostal...all of us.

We are different. Different and wrong are not the same thing.

[WarEagle]

Says who?

Says God's word.

Who said "Judge ye not lest ye also be judged"

Jesus. And I can't imagine that He'd be too happy with you taking His words out of context.

The Matthw 7:1-6 passage is telling us not to judge hypocritical judgements, not that we're not to judge at all.

If it were, then He would be contradicting Himself just a few verses down the page where He tells us to judge.

Judge ye not

Again, you're taking one verse out of context. There are many places we're commanded to judge, particularly when it comes to doctrine.

Who are you or I to tell othger believers that they are wrong?

I don't know about you, but I'm somebody who takes the Bible's command to defend sound doctrine seriously and someone who cares enough about others to correc them when they're wrong.

Christianity is not about being right, it's about being in relationship.

The problem is that 2 John tells us that if you're not right in your doctrine, then you're not right in your "relationship".

It's really very easy. YOU LOVE.

So, how loving is it to tell somebody that they're right, when God says they're wrong and their error could mean the difference between eternal life and an eternity in Hell?

I do not recognise the Pope as infallable. I respect Joe Ratzinger greatly, but having him as Pope, or indeed having the position of Pope in existence, in no way prevents me from sharing with my Catholic brothers and sisters.

How can I "share" with them or consider them my brothers and sisters when they choose the athority over a sinful, fallible man over the authority of God?

They don't? Since when?

Since they decided to create the office of an "infallible" man to speak for God.

Says who?

Say they.

Your common ground....Jesus (what else do you want?)

Which Jesus? The Jesus who's atonement isn't sufficient? The Jesus who needs Mary to be a "co-redemptrix" and "co-mediatrix"?

Yes

Then why does God tell us not to?

Nothing there stopping you having fellowship with your Catholic brothers and sisters

Actually, there is. God commands us not to fellowship with those who practice such things.

Jesus does not command us to do that

Then why does He pray for our unity?

LOVE

Again, how loving is it to tell someone that they're right when God says that they're wrong and their error might mean the difference between eternal life and an eternity in Hell?

Those who do not recognise the Trinity are not generally classed as Christian (except by themselves)

That seems awfully judgemental of you.

However, we are still commanded to love them

Love them? Sure. Fellowship with them? No.

We are not trying to compromise. We are trying to share together as parts of the body of Christ.

But to stand along somebody who doesn't hold to the essentials of historic, orthodox Christianity as though their differences are inconsequential is compromising.

There are some differences between various denominations, but generally we agree on most of the important stuff. We co labour in order to win for Christ those who have no idea of Gods love.

So, again, what about those who's idea of "evangelsim" is telling the lost that they must join their church or else they can't be saved?


We are different. Different and wrong are not the same thing.

I didn't say they are. If someone is "different", yet holds to sound doctrine and their practices are Biblical, then by all means, felloship with them.

If their doctrine and practices aren't Biblical, then we can't.

[Canuckmom]

I believe Eucumenism will eventually lead to persecution of those that have the true faith.
According to those that just want to love, love, love all the time and judge no one - the Apostle Paul must seem an awfully judgemental fellow when he spoke of "false" brethren, and Gal 1:9 If any preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have receved, let him be accursed.

[spiersdodgerblue]

Ecumenism as the Bible describes it, that is, Christians of different groups being united around the essentials of the faith and united for the sake of the Gospel, I am absolutely for it.

As modern day pop-Christianity describes it, that is, one big doctrinal mishmash where we all come together to tell each other how great we are, no way!

There's a word I'm thinking of to describe it that fits perfectly, but there are ladies here.
I agree with you. And I too know of a word to describe it perfectly, but... I am lady so I can't write it.^_^ ^_^

In heaven I'm sure there will be those there that I did not think would be. And I'm sure in heaven there will be those not there that I thought would be.

[Koontzy]

For it

It's time we stopped telling each other that we are wrong and remember that we are all Christians and all part of Gods Church

There will always be areas where different denominations have different beliefs and understandings, but that does not make any of them wrong....just different

The harvest is white and the labourers are few, and the harvest will be gathered much better when the labourers stop trying to knock eight bells out of each other.

We are not commanded to agree with each other on everything. We ARE commanded to love....and that includes loving our brothers and sisters in the Roman catholic Church and other places.

We have all on as it is just fighting the devil and sin, without fighting each other

Good on the WCC

But you fail to look at a few things...I for one am against the Roman Catholic Church... I believe there teachings are heresy and will land people in Hell..... Just for them being part of the WCC, I want nothing to do with it...

But the WCC isnt the only one, there are others... the goal of the eucumenical movement(as the WCC and other movements) is that all religions...... the wcc isnt just Baptists, Calvinists, ec.t... it includes Mormons, JW's,(both heretecial churches) and some of the movments include Hindus, Islam, ect...

[Koontzy]

How you gonna quote Matthew 7:1 , but not follow it with the verses that follow... We have a right to judge.

Lets Look at Mathew 7 shall we..... Versus 1-6 state:
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye. 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
If you read the rest it says we have to make sure we are clean of sin before we judge others...... I have studied some of these movements, and they want to take essential doctrine out, so we can all get along and agree... I for one am against it.... Please dont keep using Mathew 7:1 out of context..... Because we can judge...
and lets take a look some more verses in Matthew chapter 7, starting with verse 15:

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.[/URL] [URL="http://christianforums.com/#_ftnref1"] (http://christianforums.com/#_ftn1)

There the fruits:)

I realized you are Catholic, I was catholic for a long time brother, 18 years to be exact...... and was planning on trying to become a Bishop,,,I am glas I found Jesus, because That catholic church has alot of false teaching....





The bible also says "You shall know them by their fruits" to know the fruits you have to Judge... If you walk up to an apple tree, how do you know that the fruit on it is an apple? well ya look at it, then taste it, feel it, ect... thats Judging the fruit from the tree,,,,










Says who? You? WCC? Or Jesus? Who said "Judge ye not lest ye also be judged" And also said "This is my commandment to you that you should love one another as I have loved you"



Judge ye not......we agree to differ. Who are you or I to tell othger believers that they are wrong? Christianity is not about being right, it's about being in relationship.



It's really very easy. YOU LOVE.




I do not recognise the Pope as infallable. I respect Joe Ratzinger greatly, but having him as Pope, or indeed having the position of Pope in existence, in no way prevents me from sharing with my Catholic brothers and sisters.




They don't? Since when? Says who?

Your common ground....Jesus (what else do you want?)



Yes:) Nobody is asking you to do it.

Nothing there stopping you having fellowship with your Catholic brothers and sisters:)



Nobody is asking us all to agree on everything. Jesus does not command us to do that



LOVE:clap: Come along to OBOB with me and spend a few weeks there. Fellowship is easy, and very rewarding:)




Those who do not recognise the Trinity are not generally classed as Christian (except by themselves)

However, we are still commanded to love them




We are not trying to compromise. We are trying to share together as parts of the body of Christ.





There are some differences between various denominations, but generally we agree on most of the important stuff. We co labour in order to win for Christ those who have no idea of Gods love.





Jesus said "I am the way the TRUTH and the life"

We are all trying to win the war against sin for Jesus

Roman Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Salvationist, Methodist, Pentecostal...all of us.

We are different. Different and wrong are not the same thing.

[daveleau]

The Bible tells us that we should be united, so we better all be for ecumenicalism!

The question that should be asked is: How much do you believe we should compromise what we think is right to unite Christianity?

I'm sure that all who answered "no" truly mean the above.

I believe there are central tenants that we should not negotiate on, but that issues of worship and minor theological aspects should not be dividing factors. The Gospel should never be a point of contention, though.

In Him,
Dave

[Ephesians4]

Against the World Council of Churches.

For unity within the Body of Christ (meaning all who follow and believe that Jesus is the Son of God and died for their sins and who believe that Jesus is the only path to God; that the Holy Bible is the only inspired Word of God; etc.)

[Andy Broadley]

The Bible tells us that we should be united, so we better all be for ecumenicalism!

The question that should be asked is: How much do you believe we should compromise what we think is right to unite Christianity?

I'm sure that all who answered "no" truly mean the above.

I believe there are central tenants that we should not negotiate on, but that issues of worship and minor theological aspects should not be dividing factors. The Gospel should never be a point of contention, though.

In Him,
Dave


Good post Dave

There is a lot of ground betwen our present divisions and unity

The first step on that road is to stop fighting. Only then can we start to heal.

If the WCC helps in that then it shuold be embraced

[jsimms615]

If it is simply a moment to better understand one another and work together on common areas of agreement then I am for it. If it is asking Christians to give up what is unique to our faith or act as if we are all the same no matter what we believe then it is of the devil.