John Hagee Says Jesus Was Not The Messiah

[MandM]

Here is a 2 minute video where John Hagee says that Jesus was not the Messiah:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6864247898011762690&q=hagee+messiah&total=10&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5

What do you all think about this?

Here is a scripture to get this discussion going:

John 4:25-26

25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."

[arunma]

There's already a discussion on SR about this, so I've heard of Pastor Hagee's statements. It is blasphemy to be sure; "who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?" (1 John 2:22). But then, what should we expect from televangelists? Historically, the majority of them have been thieves and snake oil salesmen.

[PaladinGirl]

Wow. I never would have thought that Hagee would do something like this. How blasphemous and horrible!

[FreeinChrist]

He has taken truth that Jesus came the first time to save and will come again to judge and gone off a deep end.
It is discussed in the Dispensationalist forum as well, and as Hagee claims to be a dispensationalist, he is going away from a dispensationalist view. The Dispensatinalist view sees Jesus as Messiah who came to save the first time and the Messiah who will come again. Here are some good quotes from that discussion (LamorakDeGalis):
Jesus, in His first advent, came to save the world and did not judge it. In Jesus' second advent, He comes to judge the world. Both advents are at the core of Messianic identity - and that core involves salvation and judgment.

Around the time of Jesus' return, the nation of Israel will turn to believe that Jesus is the Messiah. That doesn't mean every Jew will believe. That also doesn't mean Jesus becomes the Messiah. Jesus was already the Messiah. It just means that the Jews recognize Jesus is the Messiah.

Similarly, dispensationalists believe that Jesus will reign on earth, as king. Does that mean Jesus is not presently king? No. Dispensationalists say Jesus is presently our king. Dispensationalists are also quick to point out that He will return to reign as a king: the Messiah is both king and priest (Psalm 110).

[daveleau]

Hagee's words, while conveying a theology that I believe denies Christ's deity, do not overtly say "Christ is not the Messiah." Instead, Hagee says "Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah" and "Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah."

While Hagee does not say outright "Jesus is not the Messiah", but that Jesus basically did not know what His role was, I believe Hagee might be falling into one (or both) of today's problematic theologies.
1- Clark Pinnock's theology that God, Jesus and Spirit do not know the details of the future and are bound by time, resulting in their ignorance of the future's details
2- An extreme over-emphasis on Israel that Hagee has spearheaded

Both of these seem to show through in his statements in this advertisement.

I wholeheartedly disagree with Hagee. Jesus did come to earth to serve as Messiah, as He routinely foreshadows this fact. The OT also points directly to Jesus' role. Jesus came to earth to serve the will of His Father, and that will is to reconcile mankind to Him through His Son. Period.

I am interested to read Hagee's book, although I will not buy it new and provide money for any pastor that lines his pockets with extreme amounts of money from ministry as Hagee has with his 2006 1.4 million dollar income tax returns show. I will buy it used, and pour over it to fully understand his statements, as I believe it is important for Christians to fully and objectively understand the heresies that plague the world today. This way, we can help our congregations without the need for hyperbole, which so often undermines our arguments. The answer to Hagee is in Scripture, and we should understand Hagee's grave mistakes to be able to counter them when people stumble upon this unfortunate book.

I attended Hagee's church many times when I lived in San Antonio, and I found two trends:
1- overemphasis on the giving of tithes (goes along with his income)
2- overemphasis on Israel (goes along with this miscarriage of a book)

In Him,
Dave

[DeaconDean]

Hagee's words, while conveying a theology that I believe denies Christ's deity, do not overtly say "Christ is not the Messiah." Instead, Hagee says "Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah" and "Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah."

While Hagee does not say outright "Jesus is not the Messiah", but that Jesus basically did not know what His role was, I believe Hagee might be falling into one (or both) of today's problematic theologies.
1- Clark Pinnock's theology that God, Jesus and Spirit do not know the details of the future and are bound by time, resulting in their ignorance of the future's details
2- An extreme over-emphasis on Israel that Hagee has spearheaded

Both of these seem to show through in his statements in this advertisement.

I wholeheartedly disagree with Hagee. Jesus did come to earth to serve as Messiah, as He routinely foreshadows this fact. The OT also points directly to Jesus' role. Jesus came to earth to serve the will of His Father, and that will is to reconcile mankind to Him through His Son. Period.

I am interested to read Hagee's book, although I will not buy it new and provide money for any pastor that lines his pockets with extreme amounts of money from ministry as Hagee has with his 2006 1.4 million dollar income tax returns show. I will buy it used, and pour over it to fully understand his statements, as I believe it is important for Christians to fully and objectively understand the heresies that plague the world today. This way, we can help our congregations without the need for hyperbole, which so often undermines our arguments. The answer to Hagee is in Scripture, and we should understand Hagee's grave mistakes to be able to counter them when people stumble upon this unfortunate book.

I attended Hagee's church many times when I lived in San Antonio, and I found two trends:
1- overemphasis on the giving of tithes (goes along with his income)
2- overemphasis on Israel (goes along with this miscarriage of a book)

In Him,
Dave

Dave, i answered this question in the SR area and was nearly condemned for it.

What everybody fails to understand is what John Hagee implied was, the Messiah the Jews were expecting, the King, the one who would free them, establish His kingdom, that Messiah Jesus was not.

They failed to read and comprehend Isaiah's prophecy of the Suffering Servant.

The Jews wanted an earthly King, such as the one they had in David. Not the Son of God.

Hagee is implying that the Messiah the Jews were expecting, that is not the Messiah Jesus was.

And here people are wanting to crucify Hagee.

Now I know I'll get pounded for saying this, but I have a lot of respect for John Hagee. I may not agree with all that he preaches and teaches, but I do respect the man.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[daveleau]

Hi Dean,

That would make more sense, based on Hagee's overall teaching, as he has never shown tendencies of Pinnock's theology. I could see Hagee intending "Messiah" to mean "earthly king delivering Israel from Roman oppression", but he was very poor in his choice of words. Very poor. But, I do see what you are saying. I respect Hagee's dedication, but think he has gotten in with a bad crowd that focuses on wealth and prosperity, and large personal salaries.

I do hope that he intended to say what you have said above. I guess I'll find out when I find the book in a used bookstore. :)

[DeaconDean]

Hi Dean,

That would make more sense, based on Hagee's overall teaching, as he has never shown tendencies of Pinnock's theology. I could see Hagee intending "Messiah" to mean "earthly king delivering Israel from Roman oppression", but he was very poor in his choice of words. Very poor. But, I do see what you are saying. I respect Hagee's dedication, but think he has gotten in with a bad crowd that focuses on wealth and prosperity, and large personal salaries.

I do hope that he intended to say what you have said above. I guess I'll find out when I find the book in a used bookstore. :)

Dave, here is my inital response to this question in the SR area.

Again, everybody is so ready to condemn John Hagee.

Did anybody take the time to read what he said?

videos can be manipulated.

However, read for yourself what John Hagee said:

"The Jewish people are judicially blinded to the identity of Messiah... Question: If God blinded the Jewish people to the identity of Jesus as Messiah, how could He send them to hell for not seeing what he had forbidden them to see? ... Inasmuch as God has blinded them to the identity of Messiah, targeting the Jewish people for mass evangelism is fruitless.”

http://www.prophecynews.co.uk/content/view/474/1/ (http://www.prophecynews.co.uk/content/view/474/1/)

Where did he deny Jesus was the Messiah? Hum...it must be somewhere else.

He says here:

"[In Defence of Israel] Scripturally proves that the Jewish people as a whole did not reject Jesus as Messiah. It will also prove that Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah. It will prove that there was a Calvary Conspiracy between Rome, the High Priest and Herod, to execute Jesus as an insurrectionist too dangerous to live. Since Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah, how can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered? Read it in this shocking exposé, In Defence of Israel".

http://www.prophecynews.co.uk/content/view/474/1/ (http://www.prophecynews.co.uk/content/view/474/1/)

Again, where does John Hagee say Jesus is not the Messiah?

The Jews were expecting a literal King, one of whom would deliver them from bondage under the Romans. (Definition as given from M-W.com, Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

Main Entry: mes·si·ah http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?messia01.wav=messiah')) Pronunciation: \mə-ˈsī-ə\ Function: noun Etymology: Hebrew māshīaḥ & Aramaic mĕshīḥā, literally, anointed Date: 1560 1capitalized a: the expected king and deliverer of the Jews b: jesus (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/jesus) 12: a professed or accepted leader of some hope or cause
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/messiah (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/messiah))

That is the "Messiah" the Jews were expecting, not the suffering servant that Isaiah prophesized of. The Jews were expecting the Messiah to come doing great wonders and with all the pomp and ceremony rightly due a King, but did Jesus do any of that? Did Jesus come as a King, with processions, trumpeters, dancers, etc.?

If you use the definition as given, then Jesus did not come to be the expected "Messiah" of the Jews.

While Jesus certainly was the Messiah, the "anointed One," He was not the expected Messiah the Jews wanted.


Quote:
One who does not hold to the messiaship and divinity of Christ cannot successfully lead someone to God.
So I guess the perhaps thousands of individuals he helped come to the Lord, and those in his church are not really saved then?

Hum...

What the controversy is all about is his book: "In Defense of Israel."

And the man makes some valid points:

If God intended for Jesus to be the Messiah of Israel, why didn't he authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God's Messiah, just as Moses had done? (p. 137)

The Jews, knowing of Moses's signs to Israel, asked for a supernatural sign that Jesus was indeed their Messiah. Jesus answered:No sign will be given...except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. -- Matthew 12:39-40

Jesus refused to give a sign. He only compared himself with the prophet Jonah, who carried the message of repentance from God to the Gentiles in Nineveh.

This is but one example for which you guys are crucifying him over.

And the whole point is, the Messiah the Jews were expecting, an earthly king one that would free them, is the Messiah the Jews were expecting, and not the Messiah that scriptures say would come.

"Who hath believed our report and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." -Isa. 53 (KJV)

This was not the Messiah they wanted, no, they wanted a King, such as type they asked for in Saul, and more specifically, as in the example of David. (cf. 1 Sam. 8:5)

Not the Suffering Servant as described by Isaiah.

God Bless

Till all are one.

One area where I do see Hagee as having a problem, is that he has a tendancy to be a Zionist. (Is that the proper term?)

God Bless

Till all are one.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[TwistTim]

*gets out the hammers and nails and pass them around* no, not really, if you want to follow a man who in the past has made several errors in his preaching and has on three occasions I've seen contradict himself without attempting to.... be my guest, but be aware he's not a safe one to listen to when your tired or you might get strange ideas in your head... (come to think that applies to a lot of people on this board)

This just brings to mind those passages where Paul says "if any preach any gospel other than we preached to you, even angels or us, deny him and listen not" (rough Paraphase, after a search I found: 2 Cor 11. 1-4 and Galatians 1:6-10 it must be one of those I'm thinking of)

I'm not gonna keep slamming him or you, the things I've seen him wrong on were reading passages in Revelation and misapplying them.... like of the greatest misapplied passages... Rev. 3:20 a passage directed at the Church, to Church Members, to those who would Endure, ie, to Christians... he made the common error of applying that to unsaved people.... and also He misspoke on the order of judgments, a minor thing, unless your sermon is on said order..... also he takes the Great Eagle to be America, when Israel has always been a desert Eagle for it's national symbol and many countries around the world, and though out history have used the same bird.

Just my .04 cents, keep the change of mind.

[DeaconDean]

*gets out the hammers and nails and pass them around* no, not really, if you want to follow a man who in the past has made several errors in his preaching and has on three occasions I've seen contradict himself without attempting to.... be my guest, but be aware he's not a safe one to listen to when your tired or you might get strange ideas in your head... (come to think that applies to a lot of people on this board)

This just brings to mind those passages where Paul says "if any preach any gospel other than we preached to you, even angels or us, deny him and listen not" (rough Paraphase, after a search I found: 2 Cor 11. 1-4 and Galatians 1:6-10 it must be one of those I'm thinking of)

I'm not gonna keep slamming him or you, the things I've seen him wrong on were reading passages in Revelation and misapplying them.... like of the greatest misapplied passages... Rev. 3:20 a passage directed at the Church, to Church Members, to those who would Endure, ie, to Christians... he made the common error of applying that to unsaved people.... and also He misspoke on the order of judgments, a minor thing, unless your sermon is on said order..... also he takes the Great Eagle to be America, when Israel has always been a desert Eagle for it's national symbol and many countries around the world, and though out history have used the same bird.

Just my .04 cents, keep the change of mind.

Let me just give you some food for thought.

Unless I'm mistaken, there has only been one person who ever taught 100% right, 100% of the time.

It wasn't until after Pentecost that the disciples began their ministry, and even then, there was disputes between Peter and Paul.

The point being, there is not one single theologian, one single preacher, one single teacher, that has not at one time or another been wrong.

Who says the man standing in the pulpit can't be wrong occasionally?

I have caught the Pastor of my church preaching wrongly, and then it was because of a misunderstanding of a Greek word.

Shoot, I've been wrong here. I'm not perfect, and neither is John Hagee. Anybody remember the troubles Jimmy Swaggart got into, yet he is still preaching in his church. This man was caught 3 times in adultry and nothing was done about it.

What about Jim Baker? He was staeling from the church. got caught, admitted to homosexual tendancies, get 10 years in prison, and is now back in the pulpit.

Has anything been done about these individuals? No..

The point is, everybody can and will, make a mistake. Nobody is perfect, and to the best of my knowledge, there has only been one person who was perfect.

I'm not Him, your not Him, Hagee isn't Him.

I'm not making excuses for him by any means.

Just wanted to pass that on.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[MandM]

You know what?

Hagee's church will still be full on Sunday.

There will still be people defending him.

There are so many followers of men out there these days.

So many blinded sheep.

A wicked man comes along and says that Jesus was not the Christ and refused to be the Christ and we have to debate it.........

:sigh:

[fushiarose]

Is he a big time minister? I have heard of him but didn't know if he is really popular. Is he popular?
This view seems radical and wrong to me.

[fushiarose]

what is SR?

[spiersdodgerblue]

You know what?

Hagee's church will still be full on Sunday.

There will still be people defending him.

There are so many followers of men out there these days.

So many blinded sheep.

A wicked man comes along and says that Jesus was not the Christ and refused to be the Christ and we have to debate it.........

:sigh:
I agree with you.

One poster here talked about him being in the wrong crowd...well he is the leader of this crowd. He is the head of that church focusing on wealth & prosperity. He is making the largest salary.

[FreeinChrist]

You know what?

Hagee's church will still be full on Sunday.

There will still be people defending him.

There are so many followers of men out there these days.

So many blinded sheep.

A wicked man comes along and says that Jesus was not the Christ and refused to be the Christ and we have to debate it.........

:sigh:
We are all wicked - we are saved only by Christ's righteousness and His shedding his blood for us.

Dean made some good points. And videos can be manipulated.

It never hurts, though, to take a hard look at a preacher who makes alot of money.

[Koontzy]

Jimmy Swaggart is someone I will never listen to preach, hes a cheat and a liar... period... The apostles would have excommunicated him...

I used to like John Hagee, but he has some problems, especially with tithing and greed for money.... Hes rich, yet doesnt help the homeless. matter of fact read Isaiah 58 for the right fast., no tv preacher does any of the things mentioned in that chapter.
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
Isa 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.


no pastor on tv does any of these things..... and John Hagee is just in it for the money....so I odnt listen to him...

[DeaconDean]

Jimmy Swaggart is someone I will never listen to preach, hes a cheat and a liar... period... The apostles would have excommunicated him...

I used to like John Hagee, but he has some problems, especially with tithing and greed for money.... Hes rich, yet doesnt help the homeless. matter of fact read Isaiah 58 for the right fast., no tv preacher does any of the things mentioned in that chapter.
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
Isa 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.


no pastor on tv does any of these things..... and John Hagee is just in it for the money....so I odnt listen to him...

Koontzy, your pretty good at slinging that righteous paintbrush around.

Jesus said to judge righteously.

"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." -Jn. 7:24 (KJV)

I only know of one person who can do that, and I certainly ain't Him, and neither are you for that matter.

So what if he stresses tithing. If you don't wanna give to God, fine.

So what if his church gives him a million dollars a year salary.

Jesus said not to judge on apperances but to judge righteously.

When the Lord said: "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (cf. Mt. 7:20), He was not speaking primarily of the conduct of the men of His day, for there was much in their conduct that was not examplary. You must judge a righteous teacher not by his conduct but by his converts. The goodness and pacifism of Gandhi do not justify the doctrines of Hunduism or the worship of the cow. The kindness and gentleness of the Dowieties do not prove that the earth is flat. In the eyes of God, goodness, pacifism, kindness, and gentleness may be counterfeit.

Converts, character, and conduct: all are fruits and each characterizes its parent tree. This is why our Lord said: "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit." (Mt. 12:33)...In Chiago, two famous people started projects devoted to the well-being of men. Dwight L. Moody is memorialized by Moody Church and Moody Bible Institute. In 1889, the same year in which the Bible Institute was founded, Jane Addams began social settlement work at Hull House. Moody taught that men were lost souls who must be born again through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ. This Gospel transformed hundreds of lives. Men began to live soberly, righteously, and godly, and soon, they established better homes. The church flourished, while the Institute trained young people to go across the face of the world, establishing mission schools, hospitals and churches, translating the word of God, and leaving fruit that has multiplied a thousandfold. Hull House was founded on the questionable theory that man is inherently good. If his enviroment could be changed, his economic status lifted, his character would develop properly. But that institution still stands in the midst of a spiritual slum, and during the Prohibition era, it was discovered that certain gangs considered it a good meeting place. I know of no life that has been transformed by this work. moral rearmanment is no substitute for the new birth.

Donald G. Barnhouse, Romans, Vol. III, Eerdmans Publishing, Grand Rapids, Mi. Copyright 1961, God's Freedom, The Essentials of Christian Conduct, Rom. 7:4, p. 202-203

Now i know a lot of churches that don't help the "homeless" per se, but rather, pay monies in to an association where it is applied in a bigger way. Hum, by your statement, these churches must be apostate.

I personally know a lot of Christians who don't fast. Jesus said: "...when ye fast," (cf. Mt. 6:16), I notice here Jesus does not make it a requirement to fast, but certainly has nothing to say against it neither.

I guess because I don't fast, you hold me the same as you do Hagee.

Just be very careful slinging that righteous paintbrush around, for: "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." -Mt. 7:2 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

[DeaconDean]

Barnhouse goes further to say:

We have considered the fruits of converts and of Christian character. We now consider the fruit of CHristian conduct in daily life. In Galatians, we read: "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal. 5:19-21) This is God''s analysis of the soil in which the new life of Christ is planted. Abraham believed that God could bring life out of death, and this is the explaination of how the fruit of the Spirit is produced in the life of the believer.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." -Gal. 5:22-23 The first thing to notice is that it does not read "The fruits of the Spirit are," but "The fruit of the Spirit is..." Why didn't God say the former? The answer is that the fruit of the Spirit is not like an apple on a stem, but like grapes in a cluster. The Bible does not teach that the Lord grows the fruit of love in one Christian, of joy in another, and peace in still another. The entire cluster is to be produced in every believer who is yeilded to the Lord.

Ibid, Christian Conduct, p. 206

God Bless

Till all are one.

[WarEagle]

I'd take a match and a can of gasoline and burn my church to the ground before I'd allow Hagee to preach there.

[WarEagle]

John Hagee is just in it for the money....so I odnt listen to him...

What? A guy who's 400 lbs and sells a diet program on his show is just in it for the money?

[Koontzy]

Koontzy, your pretty good at slinging that righteous paintbrush around.

Jesus said to judge righteously.

"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." -Jn. 7:24 (KJV)

I only know of one person who can do that, and I certainly ain't Him, and neither are you for that matter.

So what if he stresses tithing. If you don't wanna give to God, fine.

So what if his church gives him a million dollars a year salary.

Jesus said not to judge on apperances but to judge righteously.



Donald G. Barnhouse, Romans, Vol. III, Eerdmans Publishing, Grand Rapids, Mi. Copyright 1961, God's Freedom, The Essentials of Christian Conduct, Rom. 7:4, p. 202-203

Now i know a lot of churches that don't help the "homeless" per se, but rather, pay monies in to an association where it is applied in a bigger way. Hum, by your statement, these churches must be apostate.

I personally know a lot of Christians who don't fast. Jesus said: "...when ye fast," (cf. Mt. 6:16), I notice here Jesus does not make it a requirement to fast, but certainly has nothing to say against it neither.

I guess because I don't fast, you hold me the same as you do Hagee.

Just be very careful slinging that righteous paintbrush around, for: "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." -Mt. 7:2 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

I dont rem saying that fasting was a requirement.... But if some preacher and church has all that money, and I know for a fact they have it... I have met and talked to John Hagee...... I used to work for an organization that helps homeless and the hungry.... we went to a Baptist church and got a meeting with the board, when we walked in they were debating on whether or not to spend 1 or 2 million on expanding their parking lot... Let me first say I know people who attend this church, and they do no need to spend 1 million on their parking lot....

when we asked the board about donating money monthly to our organization they told us..... we cant cause we're broke.... sounds like hyprocrites to me... But they sure do preach ISA 58 in church, which is weird...

On the judging issue....

The bible says you shall know them by their fruits.... If you walk up to an apple tree, how do you know which apple is best? You have to Judge it...

you quoted the verse not to judge by apperance... I didnt just judge him on appearance...... Greed is a sin.... and Hagee is greedy... Period, not from what I hear, I have been to his church, and talked ot him in person.... the verse says to judge by righteosness.... John Hagee has a million dollar salary, but cant spend the time feeding the hungery, or doing naything himself...

you state that churches give to an organization to do that? thats fine, but shoiw me that in the bible? The bible says for US to do it, not to pay someone else to do it... Period.....Its funny that you quote Matthew 7:2 but fail to quote the rest of it.....

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


I do not Judge someone without first making sure I have repented of the smote I have...and we can judge rightously, but we cant comdemn, only Jesus can condemn someone, but christians can Judge righteously.... according to Mathew chapter 7 and other places

I still dont like John Hagees teaching....and I know he isnt perfect neither....

God Bless

[Koontzy]

also heres a few more verses on his desire for us to JUDGE!

Php 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
Php 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;

John 7:24 Jesus says : Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
hes telling us how to judge....

[spiritwarrior37]

Sounds to me like a lot of people are jealous over Pastor Hagee having money. Someone had said that he doesn't help the homeless. Do you have definitive proff of this? I do know that he has helped greatly in bringing Jewish people back to Israel. Most of them from Russia, where most are orphans because the Russians are Godless as a notion and have killed many of the Jews. He has built orphanages for the children, schools and centers for studying the Jewish faith, staffed by Rabbi's. Did GOd not say whoever blesses Israel, I will bless them; and whoever curses Israel I will curse them. John Hagee is doing God's will in Israel, and I am sure that if you investigated yourself, not relying on heresay, you would find that he is doing the same here in the U.S. Be careful how you judge someone on what has been said by someone else, it could come back to bite you. If you don't agree with what he says, don't watch. But I believe everyone should watch and come to their own conclusion.

God bless

[Koontzy]

Sounds to me like a lot of people are jealous over Pastor Hagee having money. Someone had said that he doesn't help the homeless. Do you have definitive proff of this? I do know that he has helped greatly in bringing Jewish people back to Israel. Most of them from Russia, where most are orphans because the Russians are Godless as a notion and have killed many of the Jews. He has built orphanages for the children, schools and centers for studying the Jewish faith, staffed by Rabbi's. Did GOd not say whoever blesses Israel, I will bless them; and whoever curses Israel I will curse them. John Hagee is doing God's will in Israel, and I am sure that if you investigated yourself, not relying on heresay, you would find that he is doing the same here in the U.S. Be careful how you judge someone on what has been said by someone else, it could come back to bite you. If you don't agree with what he says, don't watch. But I believe everyone should watch and come to their own conclusion.

God bless

I dont watch John Hagee... But I used to.... But i have meet him and talked bible twice actually.... He is a nice guy..... I dont care if he has money, as long as God has blessed him and not someone else.... But I do know that he himself doesnt do much of anything with the homeless, or the Jews.... He has people do it for him, and he takes the credit for it..(well most of it).....I do know that he isnt perfect either.... so I will not comdemn him, but would like to see his change a few of his ways and viewpoints.and bringing the Jews back? thats great! one thing I do agree with him on....but most of the money , doesnt come from him, it comes from his church.... so technically its his church that does it not him, although like you said, John Hagee is known for it right? yeah, but it shouldnt be him, because its his church


sorry had to edit this...... I know that if a orthodox jew(one who doesnt believe Jesus is the Messiah) would die right now he would not go ot heaven? do you agree? Jesus is the only way..... the last time I watched John was during one of his Jewish things, and he let an Jewish Rabbi(not messianic) give a sermon(dont rem what they call it), that shouldnt have been done......
the bible gives us warnings about letting false doctrine into the churches, yet john let this guy do a sermon, even if hes a Jewish Rabbi or not, if he doesnt follow the beliefs of the New Testament, he shouldnt be preaching in his church.... this is my Opinin

God Bless

[DeaconDean]

Well, what can I say koonzty? If ya don't like the man, don't listen to him.

If ya don't like his preaching, turn the TV channel.

But I tell you this, a lot of people place a lot of confidence in the man, whether you or I like it and you had better be very careful of public condemnation of any religious figure.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[Project 86]

Well, what can I say koonzty? If ya don't like the man, don't listen to him.

If ya don't like his preaching, turn the TV channel.

But I tell you this, a lot of people place a lot of confidence in the man, whether you or I like it and you had better be very careful of public condemnation of any religious figure.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I will say Hagee has been speaking some things that are contrary to what God has told us in his Bible *publicly*. It is totally biblical then to condemn that what is said which is contrary to God's Word *publicly* as the apostles did. Of course this should always be done with care. We are not to spread untrue rumors less we condemn ourselves.

[DeaconDean]

Well, that is what everybody is doing. Not one person here has taken the time to think about what has been said. The Messiah the Jews were expecting, the literal King who would sit on a throne in Jerusalem, was not the Messiah they got. Jesus was not that Messiah, had the religious leaders of the time read and applied the passage of scripture which talks of the "Suffering Servant," (cf. Isa. 53) then they would have recognized Jesus for what He was. Instead, they looked at the eschatological contexts and expected that Messiah. What Hagee was pointing out was the Messiah they expected, was not the Messiah they got. And that my friends, is the whole point!

Most people have truoble with John Hagee because of his Pro-Israel stance. So be it. But, don't we have God's word that:

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." -Gen. 12:3 (KJV)

While I am not Zionist in the least, I do support Israel, I will back them.

And that is Hagee's stance.

And unless I'm mistaken, God's word in Genesis 12:3 has not been annuled.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[Koontzy]

Deacon dean.... theres a review of it on this site...
http://www.biblewheel.com/RR/Hagee_Defense_of_Israel.asp
heres some of the excerpts from Hagees book:
The following info is from the biblewheel review:

If God intended for Jesus to be the Messiah of Israel, why didn't he authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God's Messiah, just as Moses had done? (p. 137)
Jesus refused to produce a sign ... because it was not the Father's will, nor his, to be Messiah. (p 138)
If Jesus wanted to be Messiah, why did he repeatedly tell his disciples and followers to "tell no one" about his supernatural accomplishments? (p. 139)
The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews. (p. 140)
They wanted him to be their Messiah, but he flatly refused. (p. 141)
He refused to be their Messiah, choosing instead to be the Savior of the world (p. 143)
Jesus rejected to the last detail the role of Messiah in word or deed. (p. 145)
I disagree with what he says:)
he goes on to say:
Let us begin with this quote from pages 137-138: If God intended for Jesus to be the Messiah of Israel, why didn't he authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God's Messiah, just as Moses had done? The Jews, knowing of Moses's signs to Israel, asked for a supernatural sign that Jesus was indeed their Messiah. Jesus answered:
No sign will be given...except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. -- Matthew 12:39-40
Jesus refused to give a sign. He only compared himself with the prophet Jonah, who carried the message of repentance from God to the Gentiles in Nineveh.

This one quote has many errors. The first is Hagee's failure to recognize that the "sign of Jonah" was the ultimate miraculous sign upon which all Christianity stands, namely, the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is the supreme sign that God gave to prove that Jesus is the Messiah. Hagee ignored it as if it were nothing; his six page Index doesn't even have an entry for "resurrection." He also erred in his assertion that God didn't "authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God's Messiah." This directly contradicts the words preached by the Apostle Peter at Pentecost (Acts 2:22-23)



Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
The words Hagee quoted are underlined




The review goes on and has alot of info... I for one will not be buying the book....

Thanks
God Bless



Well, that is what everybody is doing. Not one person here has taken the time to think about what has been said. The Messiah the Jews were expecting, the literal King who would sit on a throne in Jerusalem, was not the Messiah they got. Jesus was not that Messiah, had the religious leaders of the time read and applied the passage of scripture which talks of the "Suffering Servant," (cf. Isa. 53) then they would have recognized Jesus for what He was. Instead, they looked at the eschatological contexts and expected that Messiah. What Hagee was pointing out was the Messiah they expected, was not the Messiah they got. And that my friends, is the whole point!

Most people have truoble with John Hagee because of his Pro-Israel stance. So be it. But, don't we have God's word that:

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." -Gen. 12:3 (KJV)

While I am not Zionist in the least, I do support Israel, I will back them.

And that is Hagee's stance.

And unless I'm mistaken, God's word in Genesis 12:3 has not been annuled.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[DeaconDean]

Deacon dean.... theres a review of it on this site...
http://www.biblewheel.com/RR/Hagee_Defense_of_Israel.asp
heres some of the excerpts from Hagees book:
The following info is from the biblewheel review:

If God intended for Jesus to be the Messiah of Israel, why didn't he authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God's Messiah, just as Moses had done? (p. 137)
Jesus refused to produce a sign ... because it was not the Father's will, nor his, to be Messiah. (p 138)
If Jesus wanted to be Messiah, why did he repeatedly tell his disciples and followers to "tell no one" about his supernatural accomplishments? (p. 139)
The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews. (p. 140)
They wanted him to be their Messiah, but he flatly refused. (p. 141)
He refused to be their Messiah, choosing instead to be the Savior of the world (p. 143)
Jesus rejected to the last detail the role of Messiah in word or deed. (p. 145)I disagree with what he says:)
he goes on to say:
Let us begin with this quote from pages 137-138: If God intended for Jesus to be the Messiah of Israel, why didn't he authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God's Messiah, just as Moses had done? The Jews, knowing of Moses's signs to Israel, asked for a supernatural sign that Jesus was indeed their Messiah. Jesus answered:
No sign will be given...except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. -- Matthew 12:39-40
Jesus refused to give a sign. He only compared himself with the prophet Jonah, who carried the message of repentance from God to the Gentiles in Nineveh.

This one quote has many errors. The first is Hagee's failure to recognize that the "sign of Jonah" was the ultimate miraculous sign upon which all Christianity stands, namely, the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is the supreme sign that God gave to prove that Jesus is the Messiah. Hagee ignored it as if it were nothing; his six page Index doesn't even have an entry for "resurrection." He also erred in his assertion that God didn't "authorize Jesus to use supernatural signs to prove he was God's Messiah." This directly contradicts the words preached by the Apostle Peter at Pentecost (Acts 2:22-23)



Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
The words Hagee quoted are underlined




The review goes on and has alot of info... I for one will not be buying the book....

Thanks
God Bless

Again, you miss the whole point. The ultimate sign that Jesus was the Messiah was His birth. There were signs in the heavens that announced His birth. The angels heralded His arrival. (Lk. 1-3)

The prophecies of Isreal being restored, the Gentiles judged, the Israelites being redeemed (cf. Isa. 42-43), Israel being Zion in the kingdom age (cf. Isa. 60), The day of the Messiah's vengence (cf. Isa. 63), all the prophecies of the eschatological nature that involved the Messiah, that was the Messiah they expected. Not the Messiah that is prophesized in Isa 53.

"The OT centers ultimate judgment in the day of Yahweh (or the day), when the Lord rids his world of every evil: haughtiness (Isa. 2:12-17), idolatry (Isa. 2:18-20), compromise with paganism (Zeph. 1:8), violence, fraud (Zeph. 1:9), complacency (Zeph. 1:12), and all that brands people as sinners (Isa. 13:9). Both the nations (Amos 1:2; Joel 3:2) and Israel (Amos 9:1-4; Mal. 3:2-5) are targets of judgment, which the OT sees as purification of God's people and world so that his creative and covenantal purposes are fulfilled"

http://mb-soft.com/believe/text/judgment.htm

This is the Messiah they were expecting.

The Messiah was expected to urge the land (cf. Eze. 34:16; Isa. 17:4). Did Jesus do this?

Lambert Dolphin also comments:

"Through his ancient prophets--especially Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel--God had promised He would bring His people Israel back from exile and finally fulfill His ancient promises to their forefathers. They would be drawn back in general unbelief. (e.g., see Ezekiel 37) Finally God said He would bring the entire nation into a New and better covenant and elevate Israel to be the head over all the nations under Messiah's reign."

http://www.ldolphin.org/land-people.html

Was this the Messiah they got?

Ezekiel 20:32-38 is a prophesy of when the Messiah would delieve His people before He led them into their land. (v. 38) It also says:

"And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD." -Eze. 20:38 (cf. Ex. 32:15-19; Num. 11; 14:10-19; 16:31-50)

Here, the Messiah was to make them pass under the rod. Did the Messiah do this?

Jesus' triumphant entry into Jerusalem was prophesized in Zech. 9:9; did they see this?

They expected the Messiah to smite their masters:

"In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness. And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God...Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle." -Zech. 12:4-5; 14:1-3 (KJV)

Was this the Messiah they got?

Speaking of miracles, the expected Messiah was supposed to:

"And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee...And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one." -Zech. 14:4-5, 8-9 (KJV)

Is this the Messiah they got?

It is you who miss the point here. They didn't want to accept the sign of Jonah. They wanted a Messiah who would come, purge them of the Romans, set His earthly kingdom, rule them as did King David, make Jerusalem the center of the world.

That is the Messiah they expected!

Is that the Messiah they got?

God Bless

Till all are one.

[DeaconDean]

is this, it don't matter what you say, it don't matter what I say. What does matter? Who is John Hagee answerable to? You? Me?

"I trow not" (Lk. 17:9)

He is answerable to God, not me or you or the next person.

If you don't like the man, don't listen to him.

If you don't like the way he runs his church, don't go.

If you don't like the way he spends God's money, don't give.

Which, you have made abundantly clear that you don't.

Is he answerable to you? No. Is he answerable to me? No. Is he answerable to his church? Yes. But evidently, they have no problem with him, so what's it to you?

Your carrying an awful big chip on your shoulder against this man. Are you ultimately going to stand before God and answer for what this man teaches and preaches? No, he is answerable to God for that.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[Koontzy]

Brother Dean,

I get where you are coming from, I asgree with you... but some things that John said in his book I disagree with....
which are:
The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews. (p. 140)
Jesus refused to produce a sign ... because it was not the Father's will, nor his, to be Messiah. (p 138): If I remember correctly thats exactly why Jesus came to earth? But John says it isnt....The review says this isnt taken out of context either...
They wanted him to be their Messiah, but he flatly refused. (p. 141):dont remember seeing this in my KJV bible?

Dean, I am all for Israel..... and agree with you that Jesus was not the Messiah they were looking for..and I know Hagge is a nice man, and has a huge following.... But to say that it was not Jesus's will Nor the Fathers for him to be the Messiah is blasphemy.... Jesus came to earth to be the saviour.
I also dont remember him refusing to be the Messiah..

Its not that I have a chip for him, but I am not a big fan of false preachers, my father-in-law might be getting this book to read over, becasue you cant believe everything you read on the internet. But if that book review is correct on what it said, then you wont be able to deny exactly what Hagee was talking about, but if he said what the review says he should be labeled..

You say if ya dont like him, dont watch him..If I rem correctly the apostles had no problem speaking out against heretics? Because we are to warn the sheep of wolves,...If he was mis-quoted or something then its all good, but if not, then we have a problem...




is this, it don't matter what you say, it don't matter what I say. What does matter? Who is John Hagee answerable to? You? Me?

"I trow not" (Lk. 17:9)

He is answerable to God, not me or you or the next person.

If you don't like the man, don't listen to him.

If you don't like the way he runs his church, don't go.

If you don't like the way he spends God's money, don't give.

Which, you have made abundantly clear that you don't.

Is he answerable to you? No. Is he answerable to me? No. Is he answerable to his church? Yes. But evidently, they have no problem with him, so what's it to you?

Your carrying an awful big chip on your shoulder against this man. Are you ultimately going to stand before God and answer for what this man teaches and preaches? No, he is answerable to God for that.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[DeaconDean]

Well, what else can I say?

You have one opinion of the man, I have another.

I guess we have no other option but to agree to disagree.

May the Lord bless you in your convictions.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[SumTinWong]

I am going to have to side with Koontzy on this issue although i agree that Jesus did not come here to be the messiah that the Jews were looking for. But he being the Christ, was exactly that the messiah and anyone who teaches otherwise is wrong. The bible which is our final authority teaches that he was and is, the Christ.

About the man personally I do not not know him, and his church but my mom and step father watch him every week. But then again they watch Olsteen as well, so take that how you want to.

But Christ was sent here to redeem his people, to be their messiah, and they refused him as he was presented.

[KarrieTex]

This saddens me but at the same time doesn't surprise me. Haggee is not a fav or mine.

[Christian Soldier]

Dave, i answered this question in the SR area and was nearly condemned for it.

What everybody fails to understand is what John Hagee implied was, the Messiah the Jews were expecting, the King, the one who would free them, establish His kingdom, that Messiah Jesus was not.

They failed to read and comprehend Isaiah's prophecy of the Suffering Servant.

The Jews wanted an earthly King, such as the one they had in David. Not the Son of God.

Hagee is implying that the Messiah the Jews were expecting, that is not the Messiah Jesus was.

And here people are wanting to crucify Hagee.

Now I know I'll get pounded for saying this, but I have a lot of respect for John Hagee. I may not agree with all that he preaches and teaches, but I do respect the man.

Speaking as a Christian who's not a Hagee supporter, doesn't watch his program, and has never sent him a penny---I tend to agree with you that his words have been taken out of context.

It's also entirely possible that he intentionally made the referenced statements in order to stir up controversy, which many televangelists thrive on.

[Christian Soldier]

Brother Dean,

I get where you are coming from, I asgree with you... but some things that John said in his book I disagree with....
which are:
The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews. (p. 140)
Jesus refused to produce a sign ... because it was not the Father's will, nor his, to be Messiah. (p 138): If I remember correctly thats exactly why Jesus came to earth? But John says it isnt....The review says this isnt taken out of context either...
They wanted him to be their Messiah, but he flatly refused. (p. 141):dont remember seeing this in my KJV bible?

Dean, I am all for Israel..... and agree with you that Jesus was not the Messiah they were looking for..and I know Hagge is a nice man, and has a huge following.... But to say that it was not Jesus's will Nor the Fathers for him to be the Messiah is blasphemy.... Jesus came to earth to be the saviour.
I also dont remember him refusing to be the Messiah..

Its not that I have a chip for him, but I am not a big fan of false preachers, my father-in-law might be getting this book to read over, becasue you cant believe everything you read on the internet. But if that book review is correct on what it said, then you wont be able to deny exactly what Hagee was talking about, but if he said what the review says he should be labeled..

You say if ya dont like him, dont watch him..If I rem correctly the apostles had no problem speaking out against heretics? Because we are to warn the sheep of wolves,...If he was mis-quoted or something then its all good, but if not, then we have a problem...

I think Hagee should be given the benefit of the doubt until somebody here actually reads his entire book, and can give us a reliable rundown on it. The website you got your very brief quotes from could've misquoted him and/or taken the quotes out of context.

[Project 86]

DeaconDean, I love the Jews and believe he'll come again to setup a literal kingdom here on Earth for 1,000 years. That said I also believe Jesus is and was the Jewish Messiah. Some rejected him because he was not the messiah of their own liking. It is like how "Gentiles" reject God because he is not the god of their own liking. He is in error in what he said in his book and in speech on this topic.

[Revelation1217]

I think what Hagee said is very clear.

Not much wiggle room there.

[Revelation1217]

So what conclusions have you all come to about Hagee now?

Did you know that he believes that all Jews will be saved even without Jesus?