Matthew 24:36

[JohnChapter14]

A Unitarian asked me this question in this way:

Unitarian: Rob, you always ask me questions. Now let me ask you a question.
Me: Ok. What is your question?
Unitarian: "Do you believe God is Omniscient?"
Me: Yes
Unitarian: "Do you believe Jesus is God"
Me: Yes
Unitarian: "Then why is it that Jesus said neither He nor the angels in heaven, but only God the father alone, knows when Jesus will return?"
Me: I don't have an answer for you. But I can find out. Let me get back to you.


This was my conversation I had. I need help. I believe God is omniscient and Jesus is God. Yet, I don't know how to answer him. I need help. Please, help me. :help:

[Vambram]

Matthew 24:36
The precise moment of the Lord’s return cannot be calculated by anyone. When the Lord spoke these words, that information was said to be known by only the Father. Christ was obviously speaking from the vantage of His human knowledge (see Luke 2:51-52) not from the standpoint of His divine omniscience.

Luke 2:51-52

He increased in wisdom and stature. In the perfections of his divine nature there could be no increase; but this is meant of his human nature, his body increased in stature and bulk, he grew in the growing age; and his soul increased in wisdom, and in all the endowments of a human soul. Though the Eternal Word was united to the human soul from his conception, yet the divinity that dwelt in him manifested itself to his humanity by degrees, ad modum recipientis - in proportion to his capacity; as the faculties of his human soul grew more and more capable, the gifts it received from the divine nature were more and more communicated. And he increased in favour with God and man, that is, in all those graces that rendered him acceptable to God and man. Herein Christ accommodated himself to his estate of humiliation, that, as he condescended to be an infant, a child, a youth, so the image of God shone brighter in him, when he grew up to be a youth, than it did, or could, while he was an infant and a child. :groupray: :cool:

[DeaconDean]

deleted to avoid conflict

[daveleau]

John 2:24-25 - Jesus knew all men, and is a verse exhibiting His omniscience

Matt 24:23 shows Jesus' ability to foretell the future as Judah was lost to the Romans within that generation.

We see in Scripture that the Members of the Trinity serve in different roles. The Spirit gives gifts, guides, and conveys the will of God from Jesus. We see the Holy Spirit moving upon the waters in Genesis. We see in John 1 that Jesus was present at the Creation. We see Jesus acting as the redemptive vehicle for mankind. Both Jesus and the Spirit intercede for mankind. We see God ruling, creating, and providing knowledge to the Son.

All three have interchangable titles used in Scripture, and are all called to be the focus of prayer. God, Jesus and the Spirit work in prayer. All have supernatural abilities. All worked in creating the world.

Jesus IS God, but the issue arises not in their hierarchy, but in their roles. They are of three beings of one substance, or triune. The meaning behind homoousia is often lost in English, causing confusion, which is the source of this person's question. It is not part of God's divine plan (as it is His role to rule and plan, for Jesus and the Spirit to carry out) for Jesus to know. God has His role, Jesus has His, and the Spirit has His.

One should not fall into the pitfall of Kenosis, as Jesus did not empty Himself of His omniscience. He lowered Himself to the state of servanthood and humility, but His actions on earth show anything but an emptying. The overarching issue of kenosis is something for another thread, but I do want to warn you against this, as it does not apply here regardless of your stance on the translation of Philippians 2:7.

I hope this helps.

In Him,
Dave

[PrincetonGuy]

The “mission” of Jesus and the “role” of Jesus are irrelevant to the question raised about Matt. 24:36 (and Mark 13:32). The Trinity is not made up of three Fathers or three Sons but is made up of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—each of whom has His own distinct attributes. Nowhere is the Scriptures do they tell us that the Son has the attribute of omniscience. He is divine and has His own attributes, just as the Father and the Holy Spirit have their own attributes. A careful Bible study of the attributes of each member of the Trinity will shed further light on this issue.

[arunma]

John14, can I assume that this Unitarian was a Unitarian Universalist? Well anyway, allow me to attempt to answer your question...

Your friend seems to be implicitly assuming that you believe in monophysitism. And whether you know it or not, you most likely don't believe in this doctrine. Monophysitism is the belief that Christ has one nature which is both human and divine. This doctrine was rejected by the Ecumenical Council of Chaledon in 451 AD. The Council instead confessed that Christ has two natures, one human, and one divine, each of which is inseparable from the other. Almost all evangelical churches today teach this doctrine, though they rarely refer to the Chalcedonian Creed which affirms it.

Given, then, that Christ has two natures, it would make perfect sense that there were certain things that he did not know of during his earthly ministry, since the Bible itself says that Jesus' human nature grew in stature and wisdom (as others have quoted). The Bible also teaches that the Father ordained for Jesus to remove the robes of his divine authority, only to take them again,
You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor, (Hebrews 2:7)
Now that all authority in heaven and on earth is given to Jesus, we can be certain that he also has the knowledge and omniscience of his Father.

You should also use this opportunity to tell your Universalist friend of the fearsome things that Jesus will do when he returns:
This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering-- since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. (2 Thessalonians 1:5-10)

[DeaconDean]

deleted content to avoid conflict

[JohnChapter14]

John14, can I assume that this Unitarian was a Unitarian Universalist? Well anyway, allow me to attempt to answer your question...

Your friend seems to be implicitly assuming that you believe in monophysitism. And whether you know it or not, you most likely don't believe in this doctrine. Monophysitism is the belief that Christ has one nature which is both human and divine. This doctrine was rejected by the Ecumenical Council of Chaledon in 451 AD. The Council instead confessed that Christ has two natures, one human, and one divine, each of which is inseparable from the other. Almost all evangelical churches today teach this doctrine, though they rarely refer to the Chalcedonian Creed which affirms it.

Given, then, that Christ has two natures, it would make perfect sense that there were certain things that he did not know of during his earthly ministry, since the Bible itself says that Jesus' human nature grew in stature and wisdom (as others have quoted). The Bible also teaches that the Father ordained for Jesus to remove the robes of his divine authority, only to take them again,You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor, (Hebrews 2:7)
Now that all authority in heaven and on earth is given to Jesus, we can be certain that he also has the knowledge and omniscience of his Father.

You should also use this opportunity to tell your Universalist friend of the fearsome things that Jesus will do when he returns:This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering-- since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. (2 Thessalonians 1:5-10)



WOW. I forgot all about 2 Thes 1:5-10. If I were to preach this, I could see this infurating a lot of people, especially relatives who are not christian and are impartial about it----seeing me as some fanatic if I were to preach this.

Secondly, I will look into that counsol. That is helpful info. Thanx

[shrewdsnake]

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

This was stated after Christ was crucified because a few passages later it says that He was taken up by a cloud. It doesn't say He doesn't know just that man should not be privy to it. That doesn't mean he does know but that He certainly is not to share it if He does.

[Vambram]

DeaconDean, you are NOT Wrong. Your thoughts, ideas, and comments are completely correct even if you answered the question from a slightly different perspective. Please do NOT Delete the posts you made on this thread. Your posts are correct, and I support them completely. :amen: :thumbsup:

[arunma]

WOW. I forgot all about 2 Thes 1:5-10. If I were to preach this, I could see this infurating a lot of people, especially relatives who are not christian and are impartial about it----seeing me as some fanatic if I were to preach this.

Secondly, I will look into that counsol. That is helpful info. Thanx

No problem, I hope the info I provided is helpful.

As far as offending people goes, it's quite unfortunate that Christians offend people because of many of our wrong behaviors. But at the same time, the Bible says that Jesus himself is offensive. It says,
As it is written, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame." (Romans 9:33)
My Greek dictionary tells me that "offense" here refers quite specifically to a scandal or to something that offends others. Indeed, the cross of Jesus is highly offensive, and many people are offended by the Lordship and Sovereignty of Jesus Christ. So if others are offended by our preaching of the Gospel, then we know that we are being faithful to Jesus. Jesus says,
Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matthew 5:11-12)
I can't count the number of times people have been infuriated by me because I told them that they will go to hell unless they repent and believe in Jesus. Already at work there's a certain person who openly hates me; he only started doing so after I once disputed his claim that the Bible doesn't mention hell (I'm a scientist, and you probably know about the atheistic influences in the scientific community). If people were offended by me because I had bad manners or was just an all around jerk, then I hope that God would convict me of this sin and lead me to repentance. But if they are offended that I believe in Christ's words, then I know that I am acting according to the Lord's teachings.

[DeaconDean]

Vambram, I really, really apreciate your support and vote of confidence, but I must explain something.

There is a member posting in this thread who has in the past said some rather questionable things about me personally.

I had no sooner posted my comments and issue was taken with the way I chose to respond.

So, rather than start another round of conflict between this individual and myself, I'd rather bow out.

It is going to boil down to an issue of trying to avoid at all costs, any conflict with this member.

So rather than start an argument, I'll just respect the rules and avoid this member.

Since my post was incorrect, and "irrelavent," and my approach was also wrong, I therefore deleted my previous posts.

And people, as good as my word, I have deleted my previous comments.

And out of respect for the peace and harmony of this area, I'll bow out gracefully.

God Bless

Till all are one.