The Hebrews and OTHERS out of Egypt were first called Jews. ??

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Michael... you need to understand, true christianity is Judaic... therefore we should not be moved out of the christian forum area. I agree with your statement above. The Hebrews and NonHebrew were first called The Way, and converts to Judaism. Later on they were given the name Christian. According to scripture a Jew is the Elect of God. Having nothing to do with being a Hebrew.Zion's New Name. Isaiah 62.
1. For Zion's sake I will not keep silent,
for Jerusalem's sake I will not remain quiet,
till her righteousness shines out like the dawn,
her salvation like a blazing torch.
2. The nations will see your righteousness,
and all kings your glory;
you will be called by a new name
that the mouth of the LORD will bestow.

Isaiah 65.
15. You will leave your name
to my chosen ones as a curse;
the Sovereign LORD will put you to death,
but to his servants he will give another name. Revelation 3:12. Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name. 13. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

[TheRabbi]

A Jew is one by Election and not birth. :amen:

Vote for Pedro!

[ChazakEmunah]

A Jew is one by Election and not birth. :amen:
Hmm.... That sounds an awful lot like Replacement Theology to me.

[Bananna]

Hmm.... That sounds an awful lot like Replacement Theology to me.
We could always start another thread for scriptures on that issue.

Bananna

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Hmm.... That sounds an awful lot like Replacement Theology to me. What is Replacement Theology?

[GerTzedek]

A Jew is one by Election and not birth. :amen:
well, I didn't report that first one, but I sure reported this one. If you are going to go around saying that rabbinical Jews aren't really Jews, that is a form of anti-semitism and miso-Judaism, both of which are violations of the wiki of this forum.

I suspect you haven't read our wiki. It is here: http://foru.ms/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html

[GerTzedek]

What is Replacement Theology?
Replacement Theology is the idea that G-d has replaced the descendents of Israel with yeshua-believers. It comes in many forms from mild to severe. You do preach a form of supersessionism/replacement theology. Replacement theology is banned in this forum.

Replacement Theology is the manure that fosters the growth of anti-semitism. Anti-semitism led to the persecution and deaths of countless Jews, the Pogroms, the Holocaust.... Bad doctrine leads to evil behavior.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

well, I didn't report that first one, but I sure reported this one. If you are going to go around saying that rabbinical Jews aren't really Jews, that is a form of anti-semitism and miso-Judaism, both of which are violations of the wiki of this forum.I would like to state that I am not anti-semitic. If I was, I would not be here. My uderstanding of the word JEW is different than yours. Im going by what is written in scripture. A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew. It's a choice, not a race.

[Bananna]

I recommend taking the debate to debate area.

MichaelTheeArchAngel

Im not sure you have been here six months yet. I think your posts are still limited.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

well, I didn't report that first one, but I sure reported this one. If you are going to go around saying that rabbinical Jews aren't really Jews, that is a form of anti-semitism and miso-Judaism, both of which are violations of the wiki of this forum.

I suspect you haven't read our wiki. It is here: http://foru.ms/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html I have read these rules and I don't see the problem. Replacement theology/Supersessionism. Supersessionism varieties include:
The view that G-d has divorced Israel.
The view that the Covenant between G-d and Israel is cancelled or no longer in effect.
The view that Israel is no longer G-d's chosen People.
The view that the Church is now Israel.
The view the the "remnant" (messianic Jews) have replaced Israel
The view that "Isreal" or "New Israel" is for any reason an appropriate title for the Church or gentile believers.
The small remnant of Two House theology that seeks to replace Israel or ownership to the land of Israel
Remarks which challenge the integrity of the Jewish people, irrevocable covenant, and G-d given land:
No Anti-Semitism -- posts which indicate that there is something wrong or less than regarding the Jewish People.
No Anti-Judiasm/Misojudaism -- posts which indicate a wrongness of Jews observing their covenant and/or and basic hatred of Judaism in past or present forms.
No Anti-Zionism -- posts which argue that Eretz Israel is not given by G-d to the Jews, and/or Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state.

[GerTzedek]

We could always start another thread for scriptures on that issue.

Bananna
Banana, even if the forum is in transition, given that a vote was taken to ban this topic, how can you as a mod even suggest taking it up?

[GerTzedek]

I would like to state that I am not anti-semitic. If I was, I would not be here. My uderstanding of the word JEW is different than yours. Im going by what is written in scripture. A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew. It's a choice, not a race.
Michael, if you go around saying that Jews by birth aren't Jews, that's a form of anti-Semitism. Sheesh.

[Bananna]

Banana, even if the forum is in transition, given that a vote was taken to ban this topic, how can you as a mod even suggest taking it up?
Debate area has more freedom. You are off topic.

I'm still training and getting a feel for this stuff. Please be patient with me, but as I see the rules. Debate is open to debate it.

Bananna

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

The view that "Isreal" or "New Israel" is for any reason an appropriate title for the Church or gentile believers. That depends on if your talking about the nation Israel, or the body of belivers. If your talking about the body of believers, then that would be against what scripture says, and would also be AntiChrist. Isaiah 44
Israel the Chosen
1 "But now listen, O Jacob, my servant,
Israel, whom I have chosen.
2 This is what the LORD says—
he who made you, who formed you in the womb,
and who will help you:
Do not be afraid, O Jacob, my servant,
Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.

3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land,
and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring,
and my blessing on your descendants.

4 They will spring up like grass in a meadow,
like poplar trees by flowing streams.

5 One(People)will say, 'I belong to the LORD ';
another will call himself by the name of Jacob;
still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,'
and will take the name Israel.

The LORD, Not Idols
6 "This is what the LORD says—
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.
7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to come—
yes, let him foretell what will come. There is lots of scripture in addition to this.

[ChazakEmunah]

I recommend taking the debate to debate area.
I'm confused, what is there to debate? I thought that Replacement Theology was banned in all areas.

[shlomoh]

Michael, if you go around saying that Jews by birth aren't Jews, that's a form of anti-Semitism. Sheesh.
St Paul bears him out in his attotude that Jews are not Jews - ,<editted.>!

Romans Chapter 2
28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Be nice.

[SGM4HIM]

St Paul bears him out in his attotude that Jews are not Jews - ohmygod!

Romans Chapter 2
28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Good observation Shlomoh, and this was said by Paul in Acts 23:6
" Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees".

other thoughts:
The "elect" of that time were made up of a " Remnant" of Jews that felt this in their heart + also Jesus was the Messiah. The elect were also Gentiles that were grafted in and shared the richness of the Jewish roots in Paul's Olive tree symbolism in Roman's 11. The broken off branches were Jews that did not share this belief. The grafted branches could be broken off if they were not careful, and the Jewish broken branches could be reattached. Please note this is not replacement theology, but Remnant.

To me, although the original MJ's and the other Jews shared the same love for Torah and traditions, they differed greatly in the core beliefs re: Jesus and inclusion of Gentiles.

I also believe most Muslims today would classify MJ's as Christian and also most Jews would also agree.

[GerTzedek]

St Paul bears him out in his attotude that Jews are not Jews - ohmygod!

Romans Chapter 2
28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Shlomoh, I expect better from you! Paul is speaking figuratively. We know this of course because the entire rest of the body of his writing supports the idea that G-d has not abandoned Israel, that they are elect for the sake of the Patriarchs (Romans 11). The book of Acts similarly records him speaking of being a Jew and "OUR religion."

[visionary]

This post and all related posting after have all been moved up into debate under the name.
"The Hebrews and OTHERS out of Egypt were first called Jews."

closed

[visionary]

Moved

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Michael, if you go around saying that Jews by birth aren't Jews, that's a form of anti-Semitism. Sheesh. According to scripture, there was no Jew until the Hebrews along with other people came out of Egypt with Moses. Do you at least believe the Old Testament.