Is Sola Fide an essential of the Gospel?

[InquisitorKind]

Sola Fide is defined as justification by faith alone, and represents the doctrine of the same name. Martin Luther once said that it's the doctrine on which the chuch stands or falls.

I wanted to take a poll, to see what you all thought:

Is Sola Fide an essential to the Gospel?

~Matt

[didaskalos]

Sola Fide is defined as justification by faith alone, and represents the doctrine of the same name. Martin Luther once said that it's the doctrine on which the chuch stands or falls.

I wanted to take a poll, to see what you all thought:

Is Sola Fide an essential to the Gospel?

~Matt
I did a search of several Bible versions and I did not find the phrase anywhere... perhaps you misspelled it?

[InquisitorKind]

I did a search of several Bible versions and I did not find the phrase anywhere... perhaps you misspelled it?
Sola Fide? Or "justification by faith alone"? Neither are literally in the Bible as such, but the latter is argued to be in passages like Romans 4:2-9. Sola Fide is just the Latin.

~Matt

[Ken]

didaskalos, a few places where, I believe, the all important concept of sola fide is taught....

(Gal 2:16 NASB) nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

here, faith in Christ alone is the precondition for salvation, not works of any kind... in fact, works will not save anyone...

(Rom 4:5 NASB) But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,

What is required to be saved? Not works, clearly.... what then? Ans: faith alone.

(Rom 4:6 NASB) just as David also speaks of the blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works:

Upon what principle does God place His blessing? Whatever may be said, it is clear that it is a righteousness not based on works, and, if not works, then upon what principle alone is this righteousness granted? Ans: faith alone, apart from any works whatsoever.....

(Rom 9:30-32 NASB) What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; {31} but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. {32} Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,"

How is this righteousness attained? Once again, it is by faith alone, not based on works.

One can even go one step behind the concept of sola fide, and see that sola fide is, itself, a gift of God, based on God's unmerited favor, His grace and mercy. The following passage also shows, esp v. 6, once again, that it (salvation) is not based on works, but is based on God's grace, a grace that manifests itself in the activity of saving faith, based not on works of any kind, and hence, once again, is sola fide;

(Rom 11:5-8 NASB) In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. {6} But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. {7} What then? That which Israel is seeking for, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; {8} just as it is written, "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." (caps is not shouting, but a NT quotation of the OT)

Blessings

[Blackhawk]

I did a search of several Bible versions and I did not find the phrase anywhere... perhaps you misspelled it?
I did a search for Trinity also and it was not found.

[Blackhawk]

I voted I do not know. I do believe in sola fide but can someone be saved without believing in it in a strict sense? Maybe. I do not know. There are many throughout church history that did not believe in sola fide but I think that they are probably saved. ST Fancis of Assisi comes to mind. But then again I see the other side to the argument. So I guess I am saying that sola fide is correct and eeryone should believe it but maybe it is not an essential for salvation.

[Ken]

Excellent points Blackhawk..... certainly people are or have been saved who did not even know the term "sola fide", but they were no doubt saved because they believed it, many times in spite of the prevailing theologies of the day.....

[Terri]

Well, figuring out this "faith alone" issue is the biggest struggle I am having right now.

It appears to me that there is no gospel without faith alone because then you are saying that God's actions are not sufficient and you must help Him with your salvation.

To say that Jesus' sacrifice isn't enough for EVERYTHING seems to me like you are denying Jesus.

Bottom line I guess is that I believe that you are denying the sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice if you don't trust in it totally for everything and are therefore denying Jesus.

I really don't believe that if at my death I was asked why I deserved to be allowed into heaven I say "the only reason I deserve to be let into heaven is the blood of Jesus!!!" I will be turned away.

I guess the only reason I am having such a struggle with this is that it seems there are alot of people that say they don't believe in it and I want them to go to heaven too.

It is a great encouragement to know that others do believe that faith alone is necessary!!

T

[Ken]

I agree Terri, glad to know that this doctrine is still as important today to some, as it ever was.....

on your saying "I guess the only reason I am having such a struggle with this is that it seems there are alot of people that say they don't believe in it and I want them to go to heaven too."

I too struggle with this, but look at your earlier (IMHO, valid) point:
"I really don't believe that if at my death I was asked why I deserved to be allowed into heaven I say "the only reason I deserve to be let into heaven is the blood of Jesus!!!" I will be turned away."

So it seems this is an either/or situation, either a person claims for themselves works they have done (even in conjunction with grace) as a basis for their being saved, or they trust in Christ alone. Wouldn't you agree?

[InquisitorKind]

I voted I do not know. I do believe in sola fide but can someone be saved without believing in it in a strict sense? Maybe. I do not know. There are many throughout church history that did not believe in sola fide but I think that they are probably saved. ST Fancis of Assisi comes to mind. But then again I see the other side to the argument. So I guess I am saying that sola fide is correct and eeryone should believe it but maybe it is not an essential for salvation.
Your points are well taken. I should've clarified and mentioned it being an essential in terms of functionality, not mere assent to the notion of it. For example, if I asked Abraham if he was justified before God by faith alone, I really don't know if he could affirm that principle, or even understand what I'm asking.

As we know, people can affirm a principle in word without actually believing it. People can also deny a principle in word without actually denying it. In the end, it's only God that knows our true belief and the state of our hearts.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

~Matt

[Metanoia02]

If we are justified by our faith alone, how do we know we have the "right" kind of faith, not just intellectual assent?

[Lanakila]

Justified by faith alone, not intelectual assent though. I like the statement by John that says: you say you have faith great, show me your faith by your works, essentially.

What works could justify being a sinner, except for Christ's work on the cross?

[Metanoia02]

LAna,

I am a little confused with your response to my post. Could expand on that a little but. If it wasn't a response to my Q, no problem.

[Terri]

I agree Terri, glad to know that this doctrine is still as important today to some, as it ever was.....

on your saying "I guess the only reason I am having such a struggle with this is that it seems there are alot of people that say they don't believe in it and I want them to go to heaven too."

I too struggle with this, but look at your earlier (IMHO, valid) point:
"I really don't believe that if at my death I was asked why I deserved to be allowed into heaven I say "the only reason I deserve to be let into heaven is the blood of Jesus!!!" I will be turned away."

So it seems this is an either/or situation, either a person claims for themselves works they have done (even in conjunction with grace) as a basis for their being saved, or they trust in Christ alone. Wouldn't you agree?

I do agree Ken that it is an either/or situation. I find having put my trust in Christ alone brings great joy, but there is still a sadness for those that put their hope in their own efforts.

If our faith produces works, I don't believe that we can even claim them as our own--it's not me, but Christ in me that does the works.

To God goes all of the glory!!

[peteey]

I believe in faith alone, but have many discussions with friends who believe there should be works involved, and from what I understand what they are saying is we should be doing works if we are christians, if we are not, than our christianity is in question. But my question to them then, is Christ's death on the cross in vain? If he died for it all, then we should not be working for it? Lest any of us should boast? And they always bring up the famous line from the book of James: faith without works is dead...and this stumps me. Either it is being pulled out of context, or works are really needed? (although if this is so, where does God's grace come in...?)
Please someone fill me in, give me something good... :)

[Lanakila]

LAna,

I am a little confused with your response to my post. Could expand on that a little but. If it wasn't a response to my Q, no problem.

I am sorry I wasn't clear. I am saying that mere intelectual assent isn't faith, that justifies. Faith that justifies is shown by our works. But, the works don't justify. I am arminian, but believe that salvation is based on faith alone, not works. My arminianism is based on the scriptural passages in Hebrews where the believers are warned against apostacizing themselves from the truth of the gospel, that they have heard. They aren't warned that sin would make them lose their salvation, but that they need to continue on believing in the gospel.

I often wonder what works are being added to the faith in the facts of the gospel=salvation equation. That is why I asked. If you are RC and cannot answer here, I understand. Then that is a question for IDD.

[Ken]

peteey.... check out http://www.desiringgod.org/library/sermons/99/080899.html

and please, let me know if it helped....

blessings!!

[Metanoia02]

Lana,

Thank you for the clarification. I have always had a difficult time when people separate thier works from thier faith. Interestingly enough it is usualy the "Evangelical" who stresses a "personal relationship" with Christ.

Christ by is Passion and death paid an infinite debt we could never pay. But coming to that realization that this debt has been paid, is not the only response to this revealation to do the things he Himself told us to do if we are to regarded amoung those who would attain the Kingdom. Feed the hungry, cloth the homeless, visit those in prison etc. When we do this, we do it as though we are doing it, not just for Christ, but to Christ. Having pardoned us through his Passion, are we to simply have faith. Would not someone who had a real relationship want to love and serve that person through his works. Just because we can never repay the debt, is not an excuse for doing nothing. Works can not be separated from faith. To do so makes them both meaningless.

[Ken]

Metanoia... true faith is fides vive (a living faith)..... one that could never be bare intellectual assent....;

"Reformed theologians have divided saving faith into various elements. Some divide it into two parts. A. A. Hodge calls them assent and trust. By assent he means that the person gives intellectual recognition to what the Scriptures reveal about the person, offices and work of Christ. By trust he means implicit reliance upon Christ, and Christ alone, for all that is involved in a complete salvation. This saving faith, according to A. A. Hodge, is an act of the whole man, his intellect, affections and will. The Heidelberg Catechism, in question 21, also divides what it calls true faith into two elements. They are a certain knowledge by which all that God reveals is received as truth, and a hearty trust, personally, in the promises of the gospel concerning forgiveness of sin, everlasting righteousness and salvation by merely grace for the sake of Christ's merits.

Some have divided saving faith into three elements. They are knowledge (notitia), assent (assensus), and volition (fiducia).

By knowledge they mean a learning of the information God reveals in his word through Scripture. A true faith cannot act upon information it does not have. The act of trusting itself is not redemptive. The object of that faith is vital. Therefore the content of the gospel must be declared plainly to the unbeliever in the process of evangelism, and to believers in the process of sanctification.

By assent they mean that there must be an agreement that what God has revealed is true. It is not just believed to be true to our personal perception, but in an absolute and objective sense.

By volition they mean a personal trust and appropriation of the truths of the gospel. It is the act of the will that embraces Christ as Savior and Lord. Louis Berkhof adds, ".. including a surrender of the soul as guilty and defiled to Christ, and a reception and appropriation of Christ." (Systematic pg. 505).

Berkhof further comments, "the seat of (saving) faith cannot be placed in the intellect, nor in the feelings, nor in the will exclusively, but only in the heart, the central organ of man's spiritual being, out of which are the issues of life."" (http://www.girs.com/library/theology/syllabus/subsoter6.html)



for your further reading pleasure on the subject of Justification, and saving faith from a Reformed perspective, see
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/ipb-e/epl-owjust.html

blessings

[Terri]

peteey.... check out http://www.desiringgod.org/library/sermons/99/080899.html

and please, let me know if it helped....

blessings!!

I particularly love the summary from that link Ken. :clap:

To put it yet another way: When Paul teaches in Romans 4:5 that we are justified by faith alone, he means that the only thing that unites us to Christ for righteousness is dependence on Christ. When James says in James 2:24 that we are not justified by faith alone he means that the faith which justifies does not remain alone. These two positions are not contradictory. Faith alone unites us to Christ for righteousness, and the faith that unites us to Christ for righteousness does not remain alone. It bears the fruit of love. It must do so or it is dead, demon, usless faith and does not justify.

The glory of Christ in the gospel is not merely that we are justified when we depend entirely on Christ, but also that depending entirely on Christ is the power that makes us new, loving people. Depending entirely on Christ is how we are justified and how we are sanctified. Paul struck the one note. James struck the other. Both are true and together they bring Christ the glory due his name.

[Terri]

Just wanted to make it clear that faith and works can be and are separate.

And this separating can easily be done by those that stress a personal relationship with Christ--even those that are Evangelical!! ;)

[Ken]

glad you were blessed by it Terri!!!! John Piper is one of my fav pastor/theologians... he has been kind enough to offer an awesome book of his online, one that still sells in Christian bookstores for around 14 bucks.... its called "Desiring God", and is available at http://www.desiringgod.org/dg/id1.htm
I think you will be blessed by it.....

Blessings!

[InquisitorKind]

If we are justified by our faith alone, how do we know we have the "right" kind of faith, not just intellectual assent?
The book of James is all about this. 2:19 describes intellectual "faith," and the context demonstrates how worthless that type of faith is (verses 16, 17 and 20). The way to know if you have saving faith is partly by the works you produce (2:21).

~Matt

[Metanoia02]

Just wanted to make it clear that faith and works can be and are separate.

And this separating can easily be done by those that stress a personal relationship with Christ--even those that are Evangelical!! ;)
Can a person have a personal relationship with Christ and have no works?
Can a person have a personal relationship with Christ and have no faith?

[eldermike]

James tried very hard in writing to the Jesus believing Jews that were scattered, to describe a mature Christian lifestyle. The key is, James not writing to non, Jesus believing Jews at all. He wasn't trying to describe faith or salvation, He was trying to describe how a mature Christian lives. James did not set a standard for judging salvation. Faith without works is wasted is what He meant. James used the word "dead" at least three times, He used it to describe what happens to a believer if He grumbles. Surely we don't think God removes His promise of salvation for grumbling. Look it up! James is about maturity in Christ.

Faith alone is the gospel. But that doesn't remove the responsibility to the believer to have works.

[Blackhawk]

I think that we are saved by grace through faith.

However we are saved unto good works.

I see James making it clear that if you have a saving faith you will have works. The works do not save you but you will have them unless it is just impossible. James was contrasting the saving faith which naturally causes good works to one that does not and is not saving faith.

But again we are saved through faith alone. The works we do are a result of our saving faith not a prerequisite for salvation. And again to have faith but not works is the same as saying you do not have faith at all.

[eldermike]

I agree, stating that we are saved by grace through faith gives the proper credit to the cross of Jesus. But it can also trip people that are trying desperately to find a method of paying some of the cost for salvation. "If I could just claim faith then I'm 50/50 with God on my salvation" Since Grace is Gods nature in salvation we can't claim it, Jesus did die on that cross after all. But then we come to faith, which is a gift from God to bring life to the spiritually dead, so that's out too.
So, what is left? We must respond. But how?

When God awakens the spiritually dead they are ready to receive a word. That word can come from Amway, the JW or a Baptist missionary. The bible does tell us that the Truth will set them free, and it will, but only the spiritually awake can hear it.

I know of one that went through crystals, New age, JW and finally Jesus. He was middle age when He discovered a spiritual realm and every word He heard He was drawn too.

That is why we have to "go" and make disciples. That is why He said the harvest is plenty but the workers are few.

By the time you get to them you have to tell them about Jesus and also tell em why planets are not gods and humming is not a method of getting in tune with your inner self. Because we will not "go" the world is responding to false words.

There is no conflict between faith alone and works. Faith alone is the very reason to "go" and preach. God is bringing life to a lost world, we are to bring His word.

[Dominus Fidelis]

You all might like to check out the debate between Matt and myself on this important issue.

Round 1 has commenced, and I am awaiting Matt's round 2 comments...

http://www.christianforums.com/t64116

God Bless

[Terri]

glad you were blessed by it Terri!!!! John Piper is one of my fav pastor/theologians... he has been kind enough to offer an awesome book of his online, one that still sells in Christian bookstores for around 14 bucks.... its called "Desiring God", and is available at http://www.desiringgod.org/dg/id1.htm
I think you will be blessed by it.....

Blessings!

Thanks Ken! :)

I've put it on my favorites and will read it as soon as time allows. ;)

I really admire him putting his book on line for free. Seems he wants to help people more than he wants to make money. That is a rare trait these days!

T

[InquisitorKind]

You all might like to check out the debate between Matt and myself on this important issue.

Round 1 has commenced, and I am awaiting Matt's round 2 comments...

http://www.christianforums.com/t64116

God Bless
For anyone interested, I've posted my round one rebuttal (round 2).

~Matt

[Dominus Fidelis]

For anyone interested, I've posted my round one rebuttal (round 2).

~Matt

Thanks Matt, I have responded.

God Bless.

[Preachers12]

Peace be with you.

Justified by faith alone.
Salvation based on faith and works.

God Bless,
P12

[Gamecock]

I did a search of several Bible versions and I did not find the phrase anywhere... perhaps you misspelled it?
Oh no, I did a search and Bible isn't in the Bible! [/gentle ribbing]

[Dominus Fidelis]

Oh no, I did a search and Bible isn't in the Bible! [/gentle ribbing]

Then I guess you cant go by Bible Alone, huh?

(More gentle ribbing...)

[Higgaion]

Absolutely! Sola Fide is indispensable to the Gospel, the sine qua non. It's rather disturbing to see almost 35% of respondents saying No, but I guess it's to be hoped those come from Catholics.

[InquisitorKind]

Absolutely! Sola Fide is indispensable to the Gospel, the sine qua non. It's rather disturbing to see almost 35% of respondents saying No, but I guess it's to be hoped those come from Catholics.
I should've restricted the votes to Evangelical Protestants. That's really what I was curious about.

Perhaps I'll make a new vote later, with open results to keep non-Protestants from voting.

~Matt

[Andre]

I'll just present my views, hopefuly they'll comply to yours.

You are save thru faith alone, for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified, but when you come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ your life will show the fruits of you faith thru works, faith without works is dead (James 2:17), salvation comes first, then works will come automatically, you cannot rely on works to justify your salvation, salvation is a free gift from God (Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. )