ORAL TORAH: Boiling a Kid in its Mother's Milk

[GerTzedek]

my turn-
for example, in the Torah is read that you must not boil a kid in its mothers milk. Technically, this indicates that it is ok to boil a kid in milk, just not its mothers, you do understand this right?


I see that folks have wanted a thread opened on Oral Torah. This statement above is a good point to spin off of.

The commandment not to boil a kid in its mother's milk is repeated three times in Torah -- that's more than the 10 commandments! So, we can conclude there is something highly significant here, and whatever it is, we don't want to miss it.

In Deut 17, we are told what to do if there is doubt what a commandment means:
8 If cases come before your courts that are too difficult for you to judge—whether bloodshed, lawsuits or assaults—take them to the place the LORD your God will choose. 9 Go to the priests, who are Levites, and to the judge who is in office at that time. Inquire of them and they will give you the verdict. 10 You must act according to the decisions they give you at the place the LORD will choose. Be careful to do everything they direct you to do. 11 Act according to the law they teach you and the decisions they give you. Do not turn aside from what they tell you, to the right or to the left. 12 The man who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God must be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel. 13 All the people will hear and be afraid, and will not be contemptuous again.

So the rulings that have come down have BINDING AUTHORITY, so say the scriptures.

In the case of boiling a kid in its mother's milk, part of the ruling has been not to mix meat and dairy in any way whatsoever. Per scripture, this ruling is BINDING. It has the force of law. In itself it is not mitzvot, but one cannot say one is keeping the mitzvot while breaking with halakhah, because one would be violating Deut 17--an offense punishable by death.

This is why there is no such thing as "Bible Only" in Judaism.

[A_Pioneer]

LOL! There are many out there who say "Ima gonna eat cheeseburgers anyway."

[GerTzedek]

Ah, but it is one thing to say, a cheeseburger is not kosher and I'm going to eat it anyway, and quite a different thing to say "a cheesburger is kosher."

[stone]

I see that folks have wanted a thread opened on Oral Torah. This statement above is a good point to spin off of.

The commandment not to boil a kid in its mother's milk is repeated three times in Torah -- that's more than the 10 commandments! So, we can conclude there is something highly significant here, and whatever it is, we don't want to miss it.

In Deut 17, we are told what to do if there is doubt what a commandment means:
8 If cases come before your courts that are too difficult for you to judge—whether bloodshed, lawsuits or assaults—take them to the place the LORD your God will choose. 9 Go to the priests, who are Levites, and to the judge who is in office at that time. Inquire of them and they will give you the verdict. 10 You must act according to the decisions they give you at the place the LORD will choose. Be careful to do everything they direct you to do. 11 Act according to the law they teach you and the decisions they give you. Do not turn aside from what they tell you, to the right or to the left. 12 The man who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God must be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel. 13 All the people will hear and be afraid, and will not be contemptuous again.

So the rulings that have come down have BINDING AUTHORITY, so say the scriptures.

In the case of boiling a kid in its mother's milk, part of the ruling has been not to mix meat and dairy in any way whatsoever. Per scripture, this ruling is BINDING. It has the force of law. In itself it is not mitzvot, but one cannot say one is keeping the mitzvot while breaking with halakhah, because one would be violating Deut 17--an offense punishable by death.

This is why there is no such thing as "Bible Only" in Judaism.


How many times between the time the torah was given and the time that you are in now, have the children of Israel forgot entirely of the torah?

This answer is written and there are many many times when they strayed and returned, so how can man come close to even knowing anything that was to be passed orally? Either your oral tradition is error, or the written scripture is error, and since i know what is written is truth and what you call oral may contain alot of truth, it does not contain 100% truth, more tradition than truth.

[GerTzedek]

How many times between the time the torah was given and the time that you are in now, have the children of Israel forgot entirely of the torah?

This answer is written and there are many many times when they strayed and returned, so how can man come close to even knowing anything that was to be passed orally? Either your oral tradition is error, or the written scripture is error, and since i know what is written is truth and what you call oral may contain alot of truth, it does not contain 100% truth, more tradition than truth.
That is not the attitude that Yeshua took. Quite the contrary:

Matthew 23:1-3
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you.

There you have it -- Yeshua's statement on Halakhah and the teaching authority of the Rabbis.

[TheRabbi]

My Bible says that there are two things that are truth; that which is written and the words of the sages. My bible further tells me that both of these come from one Shepherd. My bible further tells me that it is the words of the sages that fasten us so we are fixed in our understanding.

Doesn't your bible say this also?

[ChazakEmunah]

How many times between the time the torah was given and the time that you are in now, have the children of Israel forgot entirely of the torah?
None. There have always been tzadikkim in every generation.


This answer is written and there are many many times when they strayed and returned, so how can man come close to even knowing anything that was to be passed orally?
Because there has been an unbroken chain that was passed down from Moshe Rabbeinu. I've got news for you my friend. The Torah was in oral form only for hundreds of years before it was re-iterated at Sinai.


Either your oral tradition is error, or the written scripture is error, and since i know what is written is truth and what you call oral may contain alot of truth, it does not contain 100% truth, more tradition than truth.
Sorry, the Oral Torah is not in error. The Torah was completely transmitted Orally to Moshe Rabbeinu, and Moshe Rabbeinu didn't even write it down until 40 years later!

[stone]

That is not the attitude that Yeshua took. Quite the contrary:

Matthew 23:1-3
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you.

There you have it -- Yeshua's statement on Halakhah and the teaching authority of the Rabbis.


guess what, i was born in Texas, they have no authority over me, i don't have to obey what they think is correct. Y-shua isn't speaking to me here, he's speaking to folks 2000 years ago.

[stone]

None. There have always been tzadikkim in every generation.


Because there has been an unbroken chain that was passed down from Moshe Rabbeinu. I've got news for you my friend. The Torah was in oral form only for hundreds of years before it was re-iterated at Sinai.


Sorry, the Oral Torah is not in error. The Torah was completely transmitted Orally to Moshe Rabbeinu, and Moshe Rabbeinu didn't even write it down until 40 years later!

Wrong, i can show you scripture where the torah was found in the temple and no one had any idea what it was. So how can you even try to convince me its truth in these oral traditions?

[GerTzedek]

guess what, i was born in Texas, they have no authority over me, i don't have to obey what they think is correct. Y-shua isn't speaking to me here, he's speaking to folks 2000 years ago.
stone, actually as you are gentile, I would agree that he was not addressing you.

However, his words are addressed to Jews, and even to his disciples, aka Jews of Yeshua-faith.

It is inconcievable to me that you would purport that what Yeshua had to say then has no bearing today, within context, so I'm sure that's not what was going on here. I'm sure you wouldn't say that "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness" has no bearing today.

[stone]

stone, actually as you are gentile, I would agree that he was not addressing you.

However, his words are addressed to Jews, and even to his disciples, aka Jews of Yeshua-faith.

It is inconcievable to me that you would purport that what Yeshua had to say then has no bearing today, within context, so I'm sure that's not what was going on here. I'm sure you wouldn't say that "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness" has no bearing today.


lol, yea whatever, maybe there was a copy of the oral torah sitting next to the written?

[TheRabbi]

Stone,
I posted this earlier. It was for you. Could you please respond?

My Bible says that there are two things that are truth; that which is written and the words of the sages. My bible further tells me that both of these come from one Shepherd. My bible further tells me that it is the words of the sages that fasten us so we are fixed in our understanding.

Doesn't your bible say this also?

[ChavaK]

I
The commandment not to boil a kid in its mother's milk is repeated three times in Torah

Just as an interesting side note- from the fact that this
commandment is mentioned three times we derive the
decree that we cannot cook meat and milk together,
we cannot eat it, and we cannot derive any benefit
from it....

[GerTzedek]

lol, yea whatever, maybe there was a copy of the oral torah sitting next to the written?
If you want to know the interpretation of Torah, then you do what Deuteronomy 17 tells you to do, and what Yeshua supported -- you go to the Torah teachers, aka the Rabbis, and you ask them for the ruling on the matter, and whatever they say, you accept it, going neither to the right nor to the left.

What is the expression? The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it.

[TheRabbi]

I guess I'm just not going to get an answer.