What day is the Lords Day.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Exodus 20:8. "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. Revelation 10. On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11. which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea." Ezekiel 20:11. I gave them my decrees and made known to them my laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. 12. Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy.

13. " 'Yet the people of Israel rebelled against me in the desert. They did not follow my decrees but rejected my laws—although the man who obeys them will live by them—and they utterly desecrated my Sabbaths. So I said I would pour out my wrath on them and destroy them in the desert. 14. But for the sake of my name I did what would keep it from being profaned in the eyes of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out. 15. Also with uplifted hand I swore to them in the desert that I would not bring them into the land I had given them—a land flowing with milk and honey, most beautiful of all lands- 16. because they rejected my laws and did not follow my decrees and desecrated my Sabbaths. For their hearts were devoted to their idols. 17. Yet I looked on them with pity and did not destroy them or put an end to them in the desert. 18. I said to their children in the desert, "Do not follow the statutes of your fathers or keep their laws or defile yourselves with their idols. 19. I am the LORD your God; follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 20. Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God."

[Criada]

They all are. :)

I think the principle is that we should rest one day in seven....not sure that it matters which one!

[BrBob]

The Sabbath day is every day. It is an attitude of resting in Christ within ourselves. Jesus fulfilled the law of the Sabbath and he showed by his own sinless acts of "work" of healing and such that it was fulfilled.
Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

So, no day in particular is more of a sabbath day than another.

Bob
Spearfish, SD

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Isaiah 8:16. Bind up the testimony
and seal up the law among my disciples.

17. I will wait for the LORD,
who is hiding his face from the house of Jacob.
I will put my trust in him.

18. Here am I, and the children the LORD has given me. We are signs and symbols in Israel from the LORD Almighty, who dwells on Mount Zion.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

They all are. :)

I think the principle is that we should rest one day in seven....not sure that it matters which one!So are you saying that the commandments of God has been done away with? If so, where can I find that in scripture?

[Hentenza]

The guidelines of this forum do not allow debate by non conservative Christians in the main subforum. I am moving this thread to the debate subforum.

[Cromwe11]

The Lord's day is sunday, which is different than the sabbath.

However, Christians are not required to keep the sabbath in a legalistic sense. Thats clearly stated by the apostles.

[Iosias]

The Lord's day is sunday, which is different than the sabbath.

The Lord's day is the Christian Sabbath :)

Suggested reading:
http://www.loughbrickland.org/articles/sabbath.shtml
http://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/sabbath.htm
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/watson/commandments.iv.iv.html
http://www.apuritansmind.com/TheLordsDay/JCRyleSabbath.htm

[Cromwe11]

The Lord's day is the Christian Sabbath :)

Suggested reading:
http://www.loughbrickland.org/articles/sabbath.shtml
http://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/sabbath.htm
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/watson/commandments.iv.iv.html
http://www.apuritansmind.com/TheLordsDay/JCRyleSabbath.htm
try reading something prior to the reformation

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

The Lord's day is sunday, which is different than the sabbath.

However, Christians are not required to keep the sabbath in a legalistic sense. Thats clearly stated by the apostles. Matthew 12:3. He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4. He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5. Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6. I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

Since the disciples were only getting something to eat, and not harvesting the field, then they were innocent. I also see scripture that says that they went to the synagogue or each outhers houses on the seventh day. And paul after preaching on the seventh day, also instructs christians to gather on the first day to do some work. So where can I find this Sunday commandment.

[Cromwe11]

Matthew 12:3. He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4. He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5. Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6. I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

Since the disciples were only getting something to eat, and not harvesting the field, then they were innocent. I also see scripture that says that they went to the synagogue or each outhers houses on the seventh day. And paul after preaching on the seventh day, also instructs christians to gather on the first day to do some work. So where can I find this Sunday commandment.
I didn't say there was a sunday commandment. I said that sunday is what is referenced by the phrase "the Lord's day". I never said sunday was the sabbath, in fact I said just the opposite of that.

I did say that we are not required to keep the sabbath in the sense of honoring one specific day.

Sunday was a day of celebration of the Lord's resurrection and a day of worship, but it was not a sabbath in the legal sense of requiring no work and things like that.

Sunday became regarded as a new sabbath eventually, but that wasn't the way it was originally looked at.

The early christians did continue going to synagogue until the Jews threw them out. However, the early Christians literally met together daily, so they lived up tot he idea of not holding one day more holy, because they held every day holy.

[sageoffools]

Mark 2:24-28 "And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."

[Hentenza]

Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath-keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a special sign between God and Israel: "And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself. Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine'" (Exodus 19:3–5).

“Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed” (Exodus 31:16–17).

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the ten commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deuteronomy 5:15).

Notice the word therefore. God's intent for giving the Sabbath to Israel was not that they would remember creation, but that they would remember their Egyptian slavery and the Lord's deliverance. Note the requirements for Sabbath-keeping: A person placed under that Sabbath law could not leave his home on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:29), he could not build a fire (Exodus 35:3), and he could not cause anyone else to work (Deuteronomy 5:14). A person breaking the Sabbath law was to be put to death (Exodus 31:15; Numbers 15:32–35).

Examining the NT passages shows us four important points: 1) Whenever Christ appears in His resurrected form and the day is mentioned, it is always the first day of the week (Matthew 28:1, 9, 10; Mark 16:9; Luke 24:1, 13, 15; John 20:19, 26). 2) The only time the Sabbath is mentioned from Acts through Revelation it is for evangelistic purposes to the Jews and the setting is usually in a synagogue (Acts chapters 13–18). Paul wrote, "to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews" (1 Corinthians 9:20). Paul did not go to the synagogue to fellowship with and edify the saints, but to convict and save the lost. 3) Once Paul states "from now on I will go to the Gentiles" (Acts 18:6), the Sabbath is never again mentioned. And 4) instead of suggesting adherence to the Sabbath day, the remainder of the New Testament implies the opposite (including the one exception to point 3 above, found in Colossians 2:16).

Looking more closely at point 4 above will reveal that there is no obligation for the New Testament believer to keep the Sabbath, and will also show that the idea of a Sunday "Christian Sabbath" is also unscriptural. As discussed above, there is one time the Sabbath is mentioned after Paul began to focus on the Gentiles, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (Colossians 2:16–17). The Jewish Sabbath was abolished at the cross where Christ "wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us" (Colossians 2:14).

This idea is repeated more than once in the NT: "One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it" (Romans 14:5–6a). "But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years" (Galatians 4:9–10).

But some claim that a mandate by Constantine in A.D. 321 "changed" the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. On what day did the early church meet for worship? Scripture never mentions any Sabbath (Saturday) gatherings by believers for fellowship or worship. However, there are clear passages that mention the first day of the week. For instance, Acts 20:7 states that "on the first day of the week the disciples came together to break bread." In 1 Corinthians 16:2 Paul urges the Corinthian believers "on the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper." Since Paul designates this offering as "service" in 2 Corinthians 9:12, this collection must have been linked with the Sunday worship service of the Christian assembly. Historically Sunday, not Saturday, was the normal meeting day for Christians in the church, and its practice dates back to the first century.

The Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church. The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. But the Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law, and Christians are free from the bondage of the Law (Galatians 4:1-26; Romans 6:14). Sabbath keeping is not required of the Christian—be it Saturday or Sunday. The first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) celebrates the New Creation, with Christ as our resurrected Head. We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving. The Apostle Paul said that each individual Christian should decide whether to observe a Sabbath rest, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5). We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

[Iosias]

Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath-keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

Not correct, see for example:

"And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD." (Genesis 4:3)

Here the phrase "in process of time" which is in the Hebrew מקץ ימים traslated as "at the end of days" and this refers to the end of the week i.e. the sabbath and is the day set aside for worship, Adam having taught his children about the sabbath day. :)

[Iosias]

http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/2005/09/15/from-sabbath-to-lords-day-2/

[Hentenza]

Not correct, see for example:

"And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD." (Genesis 4:3)

Here the phrase "in process of time" which is in the Hebrew מקץ ימים traslated as "at the end of days" and this refers to the end of the week i.e. the sabbath and is the day set aside for worship, Adam having taught his children about the sabbath day. :)

Hi AV,

I don't totally disagree with you, however, "in process of time" could also mean at the end of the year when they kept their feast of in-gathering. So this verse does not prove the sabbath one way or the other.:wave:

[Criada]

So are you saying that the commandments of God has been done away with? If so, where can I find that in scripture?
:scratch:
Er...no.

[Iosias]

I don't totally disagree with you, however, "in process of time" could also mean at the end of the year when they kept their feast of in-gathering.

Agreed but when you take the weight of evidence that the sabbath was observed prior to Sinai then one can argue that it was the sabbath being kept. See for example:

Exodus 16:23 "And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning."

[Hentenza]

Agreed but when you take the weight of evidence that the sabbath was observed prior to Sinai then one can argue that it was the sabbath being kept. See for example:

Exodus 16:23 "And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning."

Yes, but that is the crux. Exodus 16 is post-exilic which is why I qualified my statement with form Adam to Moses meaning that any real biblical evidence of a sabbath observance begins with Moses. Any evidence prior to Moses would have to be inferred.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Mark 2:24-28 "And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for mankind, and not mankind for the sabbath:Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."Matthew 12:3. He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4. He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5. Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6. I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

Since the disciples were only getting something to eat, and not harvesting the field, then they were innocent. I also see scripture that says that they went to the synagogue or each outhers houses on the seventh day. And paul after preaching on the seventh day, also instructs christians to gather on the first day to do some work. So where can I find this Sunday commandment.

[Hentenza]

Matthew 12:3. He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4. He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5. Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6. I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

Since the disciples were only getting something to eat, and not harvesting the field, then they were innocent. I also see scripture that says that they went to the synagogue or each outhers houses on the seventh day. And paul after preaching on the seventh day, also instructs christians to gather on the first day to do some work. So where can I find this Sunday commandment.

See post 13.:wave:

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath-keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a special sign between God and Israel: " Romans 9:6. It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9. For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son." Ephesians 2:11. Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12. remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. Ephesians 3:2. Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3. that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4. In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5. which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6. This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

[Hentenza]

Romans 9:6. It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9. For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son." Ephesians 2:11. Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12. remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. Ephesians 3:2. Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3. that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4. In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5. which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6. This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Great scripture but I don't see where it has anything to do with your answer to the quoted part of my post. You might want to explain, please.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Great scripture but I don't see where it has anything to do with your answer to the quoted part of my post. You might want to explain, please.Israel is also the Gentile believers.

[Iosias]

Yes, but that is the crux. Exodus 16 is post-exilic which is why I qualified my statement with form Adam to Moses meaning that any real biblical evidence of a sabbath observance begins with Moses. Any evidence prior to Moses would have to be inferred.

Exodus 16 preceeds the giving of the law at Sinai hence we know that sabbath observance did not proceed from Sinai. One would then haveto ask where did they learn about the sabbath?

But the whole point is this, the sabbath belongs to the law and the law preceeded Sinai, indeed the Law given at Sinai was but a republication of the law given to Adam.

Whilst I am thinking about it I would suggest you read A. W. Pink's The Christian Sabbath (http://members.aol.com/gregscv/sabbath.htm).

[JimfromOhio]

Everyday, we are to worship and fellowship. Only one day a week we are to "Sabbath" which means we are to REST from our daily activities (of the 7th day of our working cycle). We need to remember that the legal issue is not the Sabbath anymore but Grace of practice. Grace is about loving other people that we have the freedom to do so but at the same time, respect how they practice their beliefs. In Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 "both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake, the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?" Everyone will have different view based on their "convictions".

We are to be careful of those who practice ""Lord's Day" differently than other Christians. In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days.

Our Christian practice (life) starts in our hearts. Our thoughts are the product of our thinking and it is not our thinking that shapes our character, but the Holy Spirit that leads our thoughts and shapes our character. Regarding Sabbath day or The Day of the Lord or First Day of the Week, God meets us in our hearts. God is looking for Christians who will worship and obey Him from their hearts, minds and bodies EVERYDAY.

[Iosias]

Everyone will have different view based on their "convictions".

Those verses you cite refer to Jewish ceremonial days and are really irrelevant to this issue. Paul is not rebuking taking the Sabbath seriously because that is a part of the Moral Law rather he is rebuking Jewish Christians from keeping Jewish holy days such as the passover etc. As John Gill explains:

<B>Rom 14:5</B> - One man esteemeth one day above another,.... This is another instance of the difference of sentiments in this church, about the observation of rituals... it must be understood of Jewish days, or of such as were appointed to be observed by the Jews under the former dispensation, and which some thought were still to be regarded; wherefore they esteemed some days in the year above others, as the days of unleavened bread, or the passover; particularly the first night, which was a night to be observed throughout their generations; and in their service for it to this day, use these words, הזה מכל הלילות מה נשתנה הלילה, "how different is this night from every other night"? and the feast of tabernacles, especially the last and great day of the feast, and the day of Pentecost; also one day in a month above others, the first day of the month, or new moon; and one day in a week, the seventh day sabbath: now there were some, who thought that the laws respecting these days were still in force, particularly the latter, and therefore esteemed it above another: but let it be observed, that the man that did so was one that was weak in faith; the same man that ate herbs, because he would not be guilty of violating those laws, which ordered a distinction of meats to be observed, the same weak man esteemed one day above another, imagining the laws concerning the distinction of days were still obligatory, not rightly understanding the doctrine of Christian liberty, or freedom from the yoke of the ceremonial law:

another esteemeth every day alike; that is, one that is strong in faith, and has a greater degree of the knowledge of the Gospel, and of evangelical liberty, knows that the distinction of days, as well as of meats, is taken away, since the word was made flesh, and tabernacled among us, Christ the passover is sacrificed for us, the firstfruits of the Spirit have been received, and light by the church from the sun of righteousness, and Christ the true sabbath and rest is come; and therefore, being firmly persuaded there is no more holiness in days than there is in places, has the same regard for one day as another. The difference between these two lay here, the weak brother regarded a day for the sake of a day, as having by a positive law, he supposed to be in force, a superiority to another, and he regarded worship for the sake of this day; the stronger brother, though he also observed a day for divine worship, which is the Lord's day, since there must be some time for it as well as place, yet he observed the day for the sake of worship, and not worship for the sake of the day:

let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind; this is the advice the apostle gives to both parties; his sense is, that he would have each of them fully enjoy their own principle and practice undisturbed; he would have the weak brother, that esteemed one day above another, indulged in his way, since it arose from weakness, until he had better light, nor should he be despised for his weakness; he would have the stronger Christian also peaceably enjoy his sentiment, and pursue what he believed to be right; nor should he be judged, censured, and condemned, as a profane person, and a transgressor of the law: his counsel is, that they would sit down and carefully examine the word of God, and act according to the best light they should receive from thence; and take care especially, that they did not act contrary to their own consciences, with doubt and hesitation; they ought to be thoroughly satisfied in their own minds, and being so, should content themselves with their different sentiments and practices, without despising or censuring one another.

[Hentenza]

Israel is also the Gentile believers.

mmmm..... how does that relate to keeping the sabbath?

[Hentenza]

Exodus 16 preceeds the giving of the law at Sinai hence we know that sabbath observance did not proceed from Sinai. One would then haveto ask where did they learn about the sabbath?

But the whole point is this, the sabbath belongs to the law and the law preceeded Sinai, indeed the Law given at Sinai was but a republication of the law given to Adam.

Whilst I am thinking about it I would suggest you read A. W. Pink's The Christian Sabbath (http://members.aol.com/gregscv/sabbath.htm).

Thanks for the book recommendation.:wave:

I would love to see your evidence that the sabbath belongs to the law given to Adam. Care to expand?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Exodus 16 preceeds the giving of the law at Sinai hence we know that sabbath observance did not proceed from Sinai. One would then haveto ask where did they learn about the sabbath?

But the whole point is this, the sabbath belongs to the law and the law preceeded Sinai, indeed the Law given at Sinai was but a republication of the law given to Adam.

Whilst I am thinking about it I would suggest you read A. W. Pink's The Christian Sabbath (http://members.aol.com/gregscv/sabbath.htm).A great big long speech and said nothing. SUNDAY SABBATH has nothing to do with Christ ressurrection. According to scripture the women did not attened his tomb until MONDAY. The first day of the week is Sunday, but the first day of the week after the SABBATHS, PLURL, was Monday.

[Hentenza]

A great big long speech and said nothing. SUNDAY SABBATH has nothing to do with Christ ressurrection. According to scripture the women did not attened his tomb until MONDAY. The first day of the week is Sunday, but the first day of the week after the SABBATHS, PLURL, was Monday.

Talk about speaches.:doh:

A little evidence would be nice.:wave:

[nyj]

Every day is the Lord's Day.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Talk about speaches.:doh:

A little evidence would be nice.:wave: Luke 23:55. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbaths in obedience to the commandment. The Passover and Unleavened Bread
Leviticus 23:4 " 'These are the LORD's appointed feasts(PLURL), the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5. The LORD's Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6. On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8. For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.' "

SABBATHS PLURL. Friday the 13th, Jesus was crucifide. The 14th was the Lords day. The 15th was the special Sabbath, were as no work was to be done. SABBATHS PLURL. It is not correctly translated, so it wont draw attention to that fact. That is how evil men are are.

[Iosias]

Thanks for the book recommendation.:wave:

I would love to see your evidence that the sabbath belongs to the law given to Adam. Care to expand?

Simply that the law is what we call "moral law" and this was given or made known to Adam. We know that it formed a part of the covenant of works in that Adam worshipped God one day in seven. Recalling then that this Adam would have continued all the hundreds of years he lived (930?), it is somewhat strange to argue that the sabbath would not have been kept onwards from Adam.

An absolute must read IMO is this (http://philologos.org/__eb-bhot/).

Unrelated but interesting is Reformed Interpretation of the Mosaic Covenant (http://www.apuritansmind.com/Baptism/KarlbergMarkReformedInterpretationMosaic.htm) by Mark W. Karlberg wherein he looks specifically at how the law at Sinai relates to Adam.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I see that my highlights and (brackets) and "quotes" are not working. Somebody please tell me that they understood the message?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

No such luck.

[Albion]

SUNDAY SABBATH has nothing to do with Christ ressurrection. According to scripture the women did not attened his tomb until MONDAY. The first day of the week is Sunday, but the first day of the week after the SABBATHS, PLURL, was Monday.

My feeling, whenever some historical rethinking like this comes along and contradicts many centuries of Christian thinking is, "All the bishops, theologians, and teachers of the past could not have missed knowing something as basic as this, yet they concluded something else."

[Cromwe11]

My feeling, whenever some historical rethinking like this comes along and contradicts many centuries of Christian thinking is, "All the bishops, theologians, and teachers of the past could not have missed knowing something as basic as this, yet they concluded something else."
Well, obviouslly all Church leaders prior to the 19th century were anti-semetic pagans

if you just look at the text it says that they came to the tomb on the first day of the week. This is translated from the greek mia sabbaton.
Sabbaton can be used of the sabbath, but it also was used to designate a week. Mia is used to designate one specific thing, or the first thing in a group.

It means, the first day of the week. Even if you translate sabbaton to mean a sabbath day rather than a week, it still can't mean monday because that wasn't any kind of sabbath. It would still mean sunday.

so, this is just bad reasoning.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I see that my highlights and (brackets) and "quotes" are not working. Somebody please tell me that they understood the message?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Luke 23:55. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbaths in obedience to the commandment. The Passover and Unleavened Bread
Leviticus 23:4 " 'These are the LORD's appointed feasts(PLURL), the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5. The LORD's Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6. On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8. For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.' "

SABBATHS PLURL. Friday the 13th, Jesus was crucifide. The 14th was the Lords day. The 15th was the special Sabbath, were as no work was to be done. SABBATHS PLURL. It is not correctly translated, so it wont draw attention to that fact. That is how evil men are are.

[ContentInHim]

Luke 23:55. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbaths in obedience to the commandment. The Passover and Unleavened Bread
Leviticus 23:4 " 'These are the LORD's appointed feasts(PLURL), the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5. The LORD's Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6. On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8. For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.' "

SABBATHS PLURL. Friday the 13th, Jesus was crucifide. The 14th was the Lords day. The 15th was the special Sabbath, were as no work was to be done. SABBATHS PLURL. It is not correctly translated, so it wont draw attention to that fact. That is how evil men are are.
Michael, I disagree with your calendar. Jesus was raised during the feast of unleavened bread on the day of First Fruits. Shabbat and First Fruits would be the Sabbaths (plural) (taking your word for it that it's plural :) ) And Saturday evening/Sunday daylight has always been the first day of the week. Never Monday! :)

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Michael, I disagree with your calendar. Jesus was raised during the feast of unleavened bread on the day of First Fruits. Shabbat and First Fruits would be the Sabbaths (plural) (taking your word for it that it's plural :) ) And Saturday evening/Sunday daylight has always been the first day of the week. Never Monday! :) Ok then, you saying that you don't care what scripture says. Luke 23:55. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbaths in obedience to the commandment.

The first day of the week is Sunday, but the first day of the week after the Sabbaths is Monday. If they kept that commandment, then they did not go to attend his grave Sunday. Levticus 23:7. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.

[ContentInHim]

Ok then, you saying that you don't care what scripture says. Luke 23:55. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbaths in obedience to the commandment.

The first day of the week is Sunday, but the first day of the week after the Sabbaths is Monday. If they kept that commandment, then they did not go to attend his grave Sunday. Levticus 23:7. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.
No, I'm saying that you are reading it wrong. First Jesus was not crucified on Friday so you are starting off with a bad premise.

A favorite teacher of mine says the problem is we can't count to three - remember the sign of Jonah would be the sign that Jesus was Messiah. 3 days and 3 nights! Back off from the women coming to the tomb on Sunday, the first day of the week and you should have it!

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

No, I'm saying that you are reading it wrong. First Jesus was not crucified on Friday so you are starting off with a bad premise.

A favorite teacher of mine says the problem is we can't count to three - remember the sign of Jonah would be the sign that Jesus was Messiah. 3 days and 3 nights! Back off from the women coming to the tomb on Sunday, the first day of the week and you should have it! John 19:28. Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." 29. A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips. 30. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
31. Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbaths. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbaths, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32. The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33. But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35. The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36. These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken," 37. and, as another scripture says, "They will look on the one they have pierced."

The Burial of Jesus
38. Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews. With Pilate's permission, he came and took the body away. 39. He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds. 40. Taking Jesus' body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. 41. At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42. Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

[Albion]

Well, obviouslly all Church leaders prior to the 19th century were anti-semetic pagans

if you just look at the text it says that they came to the tomb on the first day of the week. This is translated from the greek mia sabbaton.
Sabbaton can be used of the sabbath, but it also was used to designate a week. Mia is used to designate one specific thing, or the first thing in a group.

It means, the first day of the week. Even if you translate sabbaton to mean a sabbath day rather than a week, it still can't mean monday because that wasn't any kind of sabbath. It would still mean sunday.



Well, it's good to know, after all these centuries, that something as rudimentary as the proper translation (of the languages that every seminary student has to study) has finally been set right by SOMEONE.

Just think of all those linguists, professors, and theologians of every persuasion and denomination who for almost 2000 years never gave the first thought to what you have at last revealed to us here!

[Hentenza]

Luke 23:55. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbaths in obedience to the commandment. The Passover and Unleavened Bread
Leviticus 23:4 " 'These are the LORD's appointed feasts(PLURL), the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5. The LORD's Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6. On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8. For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.' "

SABBATHS PLURL. Friday the 13th, Jesus was crucifide. The 14th was the Lords day. The 15th was the special Sabbath, were as no work was to be done. SABBATHS PLURL. It is not correctly translated, so it wont draw attention to that fact. That is how evil men are are.

Context, my friend. It is all about context.:wave:

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

No, I'm saying that you are reading it wrong. First Jesus was not crucified on Friday so you are starting off with a bad premise.

A favorite teacher of mine says the problem is we can't count to three - remember the sign of Jonah would be the sign that Jesus was Messiah. 3 days and 3 nights! Back off from the women coming to the tomb on Sunday, the first day of the week and you should have it! Your Teacher should study his bible. The Passover and Unleavened Bread
Leviticus 23:4. " 'These are the LORD's appointed feasts, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5. The LORD's Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6. On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8. For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.' "

[sageoffools]

Michael, I'm not sure what version you are using to get the plural Sabbaths, but the KJV, NIV, ESV, NKJV, ASV and RSVall say Sabbath, singular. In addition to that the lexicon gives no indication of this being a plural word.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Michael, I'm not sure what version you are using to get the plural Sabbaths, but the KJV, NIV, ESV, NKJV, ASV and RSVall say Sabbath, singular. In addition to that the lexicon gives no indication of this being a plural word.Yes, I know that it is singular. What Im saying is that it is in error according to scripture. Two Sabbaths (days of rest) together make a plural. No work was to be done on Saturday the 14th or Sunday the 15th. Scripture says that the women kept those commandments in Luke 23:56.

[Albion]

Yes, I know that it is singular. What Im saying is that it is in error according to scripture. Two Sabbaths (days of rest) together make a plural. No work was to be done on Saturday the 14th or Sunday the 15th. Scripture says that the women kept those commandments in Luke 23:56.

But that wording (in red) does NOT speak of two Sabbaths, nor does Luke 23:56.

The reference is to two days, not two Sabbaths--and I'm sure you know that the Sabbath begins late on one day and ends on the next.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

But that wording (in red) does NOT speak of two Sabbaths, nor does Luke 23:56.

The reference is to two days, not two Sabbaths--and I'm sure you know that the Sabbath begins late on one day and ends on the next.
Holman Bible Dictionary


SABBATH
The day of rest, considered holy to God by His rest on the seventh day after creation and viewed as a sign of the covenant relation between God and His people and of the eternal rest He has promised them.

Old Testament The word sabbath comes from the Hebrew shabbat, meaning “to cease” or “desist.” The primary meaning is that of cessation from all work.

[sageoffools]

Your Teacher should study his bible. The Passover and Unleavened Bread
Leviticus 23:4. " 'These are the LORD's appointed feasts, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5. The LORD's Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6. On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8. For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.' "

So, if I understand correctly, you are assuming that the Feast of Unleavened Bread started on a Sunday, so they would have done no work on Friday-Saturday for the regular Sabbath, and they would have done no work for the first day after the seven days of unleavened bread, which would be Sunday. Which you believe they acknowledged in Luke 23.
There is some fault in your logic though.
The Feast of unleavened bread did not begin on Sunday. In Matthew 26, when the Pharisees conspired to arrest Jesus, they decided not to arrest him during either the passover, on the 14th of the month, or on the 1st day of the feast of unleavened bread, on the 15th of the month.
If you look beginning in Matthew 23 starting in verse 17, you will see the disciples getting ready for passover meal, on the 1st day of the feast on unleavened bread, the 15th of the month. Later on that same day Jesus told Peter, in verse 34 that "this night...thou shalt deny me thrice" Peter denied Jesus after Jesus had been arrested, which means he was arrested on the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. In verse 75, we see the cock crowing which would indicate morning on the 16th day of the month, the Second day of Unleavened Bread.
Beginning in Matthew 27 we see an unbroken record of what took place on the 16th day of the month, Jesus being brought before Pontus Pilate, wrongly accused, traded for Barabbas and subsequently beaten and crucified, all on the 16th day of the month, the Second day of Unleavened Bread. In Matthew 27:45 we see that Jesus hung on the cross from noon until 3P.M. when He gave up the ghost. That evening, he was buried by Joseph. He was in the tomb 3 days, which would be the third, fourth and fifth days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Which means he would have risen on the 5th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. So this means the Feast of Unleavened Bread would have started on Wednesday, the day He was arrested, and He was crucified on Thursday buried Friday, Saturday and rose on Sunday. And the seventh day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread would have been the following Wednesday, meaning the following Thursday would have been the first day after the seven days of Unleavened Bread, the "special sabbath"
If he was crucified Thursday, the women in Luke would have come to his tomb on Friday, during the day, went home to make the spices, then rested Friday night through Saturday night for the Sabbath, and would not have gone to the tomb at night, so they went the next time that they could. "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first [day] of the week" (Matt 28:1) which would have been Sunday morning.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

So, if I understand correctly, you are assuming that the Feast of Unleavened Bread started on a Sunday, so they would have done no work on Friday Im done, you win.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Mods please delete this thread. MichaelTheeArchAngel.

[Hentenza]

Closing thread per OP request.