Is there a 'whole gospel' and 'half gospels'? Teaching children of snakes and wolves

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

This is up for poll and debate from outside members of cc.

The question is, are there such things as half gospels, and whole gospels and should we teach our children the 'negative' sides of scripture, such as Jesus referancing snakes and wolves and turning tables in the temple?

[IamRedeemed]

There shouldn't be a such thing as half a gospel and
half truths, but unfortunately there is!:mad:

And guess what you have when you only have half a truth?
That's right, the other half is a pack of lies...der.

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

There shouldn't be a such thing as half a gospel and
half truths, but unfortunately there is!:mad:

And guess what you have when you only have half a truth?
That's right, the other half is a pack of lies...der.
Very good points IaR
A half truth is the same as a half gospel, its very nice terminology for a 'lie', and it is set to cause compromise to deceive

[shrewdsnake]

This is up for poll and debate from outside members of cc.

The question is, are there such things as half gospels, and whole gospels and should we teach our children the 'negative' sides of scripture, such as Jesus referencing snakes and wolves and turning tables in the temple?

Yes. There was a story on 60 minutes about Joel Osteen who I think offers a half gospel.

I would hope we are teaching our kids all sides of scripture because eventually they are going to get old enough to research and read the Bible themselves and who wants to find out they were basically lied to?

[Cromwe11]

A half truth is also a half lie ;) There are deffinetly half-gospels... probably 1/3 gospels and 2/3 gospels as well, of course I may be biased.. I tend to think a huge percentage of Christians today just believe whatever they want anyway.

[Time2BCounted]

A half truth is also a half lie ;) There are deffinetly half-gospels... probably 1/3 gospels and 2/3 gospels as well, of course I may be biased.. I tend to think a huge percentage of Christians today just believe whatever they want anyway.
i agree 100 percent... there are 99 percent gospels but that one percent can kill .

Good to meet you Cromwell

[Cromwe11]

i agree 100 percent... there are 99 percent gospels but that one percent can kill .

Good to meet you Cromwell
thanks for the welcome, but you should probably reserve judgement. Its easy to like people when you agree with them, but you never really know someone until you cross them.

Or so my dad always says.

[Time2BCounted]

thanks for the welcome, but you should probably reserve judgement. Its easy to like people when you agree with them, but you never really know someone until you cross them.

Or so my dad always says.
Hey we already disagree in the other thread and i still welcome you:thumbsup:

[Cromwe11]

Hey we already disagree in the other thread and i still welcome you:thumbsup:
cool :)

[JimfromOhio]

As far as playing Christian when the gospel being preached, only God can convict people to hear the REAL gospel. This verse is a reminder, 1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance (conviction), as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.We just preach the Gospel to ALL and allow God handle them by convicting them to repent. The condition of the heart determines how receptive a person is to the gospel. The Holy Spirit is the key. Faith comes as a result of the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit-He quickens our hearts to believe. Apart from the new birth, there can be no true faith. Without the Holy Spirit, our faith and our works are NOTHING.

Regarding the Gospel, Paul wrote in Philippians 1:17-19 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. The Gospel is being spread regardless. People are hearing the word "Jesus". Before we were saved, our minds & hearts were planted over the years about Jesus from various source. Its the Holy Spirit that convicted us to accept Christ. Not the Church. Church's roles are planting, teaching and exhortation. The Holy Spirit is leads people to the Gospel. We are to spread the Gospel and the Holy Spirit will do the rest.

Our credibility is evangelism because we are "representing" Jesus Christ. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore others on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God (Eph. 2:17-18)

The fear generated by bad theologies was a problem that many people have faced in Jesus’ day as today’s Christians. Do you know what bad theology is? Legalism without knowing a person's heart causes more grieve to the Holy Spirit more than helping. We must be weary of such doctrines that teaches bad theologies that causes to control people with legalism words. Some Christians uses "heretics antics" to persecute Christians and silences them.

We are not to allow others get grieved by burdensome legalism. In our Christian fellowship (not individual), we must recognize that the Holy Spirit desires to take us and lead us, and use us as instruments through which He can express Himself through us.

I have dealt with Christians setting up agendas to prevent people from "joining in" similar to what the Pharisees did. :mad: Which is why I am no longer a member of Conservative Christians here. I disagree with those who argue with others about doctrines. If they disagree and don't like me, that's fine because I am giving them this forum. ITS ALL yours. :wave:

[Time2BCounted]

As far as playing Christian when the gospel being preached, only God can convict people to hear the REAL gospel. This verse is a reminder, 1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance (conviction), as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.We just preach the Gospel to ALL and allow God handle them by convicting them to repent. The condition of the heart determines how receptive a person is to the gospel. The Holy Spirit is the key. Faith comes as a result of the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit-He quickens our hearts to believe. Apart from the new birth, there can be no true faith. Without the Holy Spirit, our faith and our works are NOTHING.

You may be missing the question. You are talking about THE gospel and we are talking about whether there are 'other gospels' or 'half gospels'. No one is argueing whether God convicts, this isnt the topic lol. You say 'the gospel', in your estimation does this include teaching our children about snakes and wolves or are there parts of the gospel you would not teach?

Regarding the Gospel, Paul wrote in Philippians 1:17-19 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. The Gospel is being spread regardless. People are hearing the word "Jesus". Before we were saved, our minds & hearts were planted over the years about Jesus from various source. Its the Holy Spirit that convicted us to accept Christ. Not the Church. Church's roles are planting, teaching and exhortation. The Holy Spirit is leads people to the Gospel. We are to spread the Gospel and the Holy Spirit will do the rest.

Can people be brought to 'another Jesus', and what are the ramifications if they can?

Our credibility is evangelism because we are "representing" Jesus Christ. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore others on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God (Eph. 2:17-18)

The fear generated by bad theologies was a problem that many people have faced in Jesus’ day as today’s Christians. Do you know what bad theology is? Legalism without knowing a person's heart causes more grieve to the Holy Spirit more than helping. We must be weary of such doctrines that teaches bad theologies that causes to control people with legalism words. Some Christians uses "heretics antics" to persecute Christians and silences them.

We are not to allow others get grieved by burdensome legalism. In our Christian fellowship (not individual), we must recognize that the Holy Spirit desires to take us and lead us, and use us as instruments through which He can express Himself through us.

I have dealt with Christians setting up agendas to prevent people from "joining in" similar to what the Pharisees did. :mad: Which is why I am no longer a member of Conservative Christians here. I disagree with those who argue with others about doctrines. If they disagree and don't like me, that's fine because I am giving them this forum. ITS ALL yours. :wave:


So you disagree that we should preach or teach about hell? This should become a nondoctrine or long forgotten? Should we teach that there are wolves who would devour the sheep and many appear as ministers of light? ...or should we not teach this either?

Should we teach that there are those who pay their tithes but dont know a thing about righteous judgement? ...or is this another one we should avoid?

Should we teach that homosexuality and abortion are wrong? Should we realize all the world has an agenda and God said they are wiser than His children for a reason?

[JimfromOhio]

You may be missing the question. You are talking about THE gospel and we are talking about whether there are 'other gospels' or 'half gospels'. No one is argueing whether God convicts, this isnt the topic lol. You say 'the gospel', in your estimation does this include teaching our children about snakes and wolves or are there parts of the gospel you would not teach?
False teachings have been around before we enter into a church. There is TV. There is radio. There is internet. False teachings are being blasted through various sources. We are to teach the difference between false and truth while God will help them understand.

Can people be brought to 'another Jesus', and what are the ramifications if they can?
The "other Gospels" have been around for YEARS and getting more and more. One of the biggest gospels people will use is "MONEY". People think money will bring you happiness. (hint: Word of Faith loves teaching about wealth)

So you disagree that we should preach or teach about hell? This should become a nondoctrine or long forgotten? Should we teach that there are wolves who would devour the sheep and many appear as ministers of light? ...or should we not teach this either?
I always teach about hell and wolves. The point is "how you teach". ;)


Should we teach that there are those who pay their tithes but dont know a thing about righteous judgement? ...or is this another one we should avoid?
At what doctrines' of tithing should we use?

Also, how do we teach others about holiness is how we disciple others. "If Christ is in us, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10). The key to holiness is submitting to the Spirit's control in daily life that will enable us to overcome the human nature and live through grace's sufficiency. Not how we tell others how to live in righteousness life.

Should we teach that homosexuality and abortion are wrong? Should we realize all the world has an agenda and God said they are wiser than His children for a reason?
Everything we do in this world is wrong including homosexual and abortion. Why focus on those when there are other sins that are needed to be dealt with? Job's friends made up a list of sins they were sure Job had committed at one time or another. The problem was was that all their accusations were unfounded. We are to edify others about sins and let the Holy Spirit convicts them to avoid sinning.

[Time2BCounted]

False teachings have been around before we enter into a church. There is TV. There is radio. There is internet. False teachings are being blasted through various sources. We are to teach the difference between false and truth while God will help them understand.


The "other Gospels" have been around for YEARS and getting more and more. One of the biggest gospels people will use is "MONEY". People think money will bring you happiness. (hint: Word of Faith loves teaching about wealth)


I always teach about hell and wolves. The point is "how you teach". ;)


Jim you seem to be agreeing with me then, that indeed Christ Himself taught these things, there is a whole gospel, there are half gospels. The proverbs themselves teach us that there is a time and a season for everything under the sun. There are times to make strong stands, there are times to take others. When is it wrong to stand against ordaining homosexuals, or when is it wrong to lift a voice against abortion?



At what doctrines' of tithing should we use?

Also, how do we teach others about holiness is how we disciple others. "If Christ is in us, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10). The key to holiness is submitting to the Spirit's control in daily life that will enable us to overcome the human nature and live through grace's sufficiency. Not how we tell others how to live in righteousness life.


Everything we do in this world is wrong including homosexual and abortion. Why focus on those when there are other sins that are needed to be dealt with? Job's friends made up a list of sins they were sure Job had committed at one time or another. The problem was was that all their accusations were unfounded. We are to edify others about sins and let the Holy Spirit convicts them to avoid sinning.



Jim
Brother do you agree or disagree with this statement?: "Some sins are greater than others."

[JimfromOhio]

Jim you seem to be agreeing with me then, that indeed Christ Himself taught these things, there is a whole gospel, there are half gospels. The proverbs themselves teach us that there is a time and a season for everything under the sun. There are times to make strong stands, there are times to take others. When is it wrong to stand against ordaining homosexuals, or when is it wrong to lift a voice against abortion?

A Church that allows an "open" homosexual to serve is not a conservative Church. I would not even visit any Church that allows homosexual ministers.

I am for standing up but NOT how you and others are doing. I disagree on the "HOW".


Jim
Brother do you agree or disagree with this statement?: "Some sins are greater than others."
Greater sin is rejection Christ's offer of salvation. This sin leads them to eternal hell. No other sins are bigger than that. All other sins are the same however, in proverbs, God explains how our "behaviors" can be worst sins than any sexual sins. They listed in Proverbs 6:16-20 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
1. haughty eyes,

2. a lying tongue,

3. hands that shed innocent blood,

4. a heart that devises wicked schemes,

5. feet that are quick to rush into evil,

6. a false witness who pours out lies

7. and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

SPIRIT:
Galatians 5:21-23 The VERY FIRST Fruit of the Spirit is:

1. LOVE (John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.) and then followed by:

2. joy (1 Thessalonians 5:16 Be joyful always) James 1:2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds.

3. peace (1 Thessalonians 5:13 Live in peace with each other.)

4. patience (Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.)

5. kindness (2 Peter 1:7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.)

6. goodness (2 Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness)

7. faithfulness (Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.)

8. gentleness Philippians 4:5 ("Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.")

9. self-control.1 Peter 5:8 (Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.)

[Cromwe11]

its (relatively) easy to pick out the "other" gospels when they are opposed to our beliefs. It is much harder to pick them out when they seem to agree with our views.

[Father Rick]

Certain fallacies of logic in the OP...
The question is, are there such things as half gospels, and whole gospels and should we teach our children the 'negative' sides of scripture, such as Jesus referancing snakes and wolves and turning tables in the temple?There are two different issues here, which are not necessarily related to each other.

It's kind of like asking "Are steaks better than hamburger? And how does that relate to rice?"

First is the question "are there 'half-gospels' and 'whole-gospels'?"
While scripture does speak of those who teach "another gospel"-- that is they deny the message of Christ... nowhere does it speak of "half-gospels" or "whole gospels". In fact, it was over 300 years after Christ before the full teaching of scripture was actually compiled together in what we now call the Bible. The apostles did not teach "the full gospel", if by that you mean the complete contents of Scripture. They didn't have "the full gospel" to teach. For that matter, even Jesus didn't teach "the full gospel" if that is the definition you are using-- since there are things taught in the later portions of the New Testament that we do not see taught by Christ.

Don't get me wrong... I am NOT saying that there are things to be added to the work of Christ. We see in Him the fullness of truth-- but while the principles may have been there, the specifics had not be spelled out. And when it comes to things such as the role of the Holy Spirit in the Church, spiritual gifts, etc. you find little or no teaching until after Christ's ascension.

Does this mean that the early church was deficient in it's message? No... it simply means that they didn't have everything yet-- yet they were still effective in "turning the world upside down" for Christ.

Even today, with the scriptures being readily available for all, anyone who is honest will admit that what they believe/practice is not the "whole gospel"-- since none of us perfectly know and understand all of the teaching of scripture. We should all be growing in our knowledge/understanding of the gospel-- but if anyone thinks they fully understand it all, then their pride has blinded them from the truth already.


Now as to teaching the "negative sides" of the gospel to our children...

When Jesus taught, he was selective in who he taught what. He would teach the crowds, but then with his disciples he would teach additional truths. Was Jesus teaching a "half gospel"? Or is there a time and a place to teach certain truths-- and a time and place to not teach them (just as Jesus did)? Jesus didn't teach just because he could, rather he only did what he "saw his Father in heaven" doing. Wisdom is not just knowing that you CAN speak... but knowing WHEN to speak.

[IamRedeemed]

That would be a good answer, if it actually answered the question of the OP. :sigh:

(Please correct me if I am mistaken on your intent OP (Timewolf hehe)

The way I understand it, the OP didn't ask if there was a such thing as teaching all of the Bible or only half of it or ALL of the NT or only half of it. He basically asked if there was a such thing as a half a gospel?

In other words, are people being deceived by watered down salvation doctrine, believing they can come to Christ, unrepentant and unwilling to be cleansed and still be saved?

Are they being told the good news, but not being told the conditions, or the cost? Are they being told it is "free" when Jesus says we must deny ourselves and pick up our cross and follow Him?

That if we love anyone or anything on earth more than the Lord, we are not worthy to be His disciples?

So, based on the explanation of the OP and some of the things you have heard here on CF, for instance, would you say that it appears many people are being deceived with only half of the truth, being told only half of the Gospel?

Another member here, stated that they believe that the ministry of Joel Osteen is a good example of what you might think of when you think of "half a gospel" being preached.

I agree with that as a good example of what the OP is talking about.

God bless

[Father Rick]

That would be a good answer, if it actually answered the question of the OP. :sigh:

(Please correct me if I am mistaken on your intent OP (Timewolf hehe)

The way I understand it, the OP didn't ask if there was a such thing as teaching all of the Bible or only half of it or ALL of the NT or only half of it. He basically asked if there was a such thing as a half a gospel?

In other words, are people being deceived by watered down salvation doctrine, believing they can come to Christ, unrepentant and unwilling to be cleansed and still be saved?
Actually, I would say that I was right on target with the OP-- I just looked at the big picture, not just at specific pieces.

The question was in 2 parts (unrelated parts--although I'm not sure the OP realizes that they are actually unrelated).

The first part was whether or not there was a such thing as "half-gospel". I showed that it is clear in scripture that Jesus did not teach everything to everyone-- some got part of the message, others got the rest of the message.

I also showed that in the early church, different people had different parts of the Gospel.





Are they being told the good news, but not being told the conditions, or the cost? Are they being told it is "free" when Jesus says we must deny ourselves and pick up our cross and follow Him?

That if we love anyone or anything on earth more than the Lord, we are not worthy to be His disciples?
I would say that grace is free-- but it's not cheap. If His grace were not free, then it wouldn't be grace.

I do fully agree that we are to realize that follow Christ means dying to self (in other words, doing thing His way instead of our way). But I also realize that His way is not all about asceticism either... and actually, He taught more about our attitudes than our actions (which is actually stricter than just rules regarding one's actions).

So many here on CCC constantly talk about issues such as abortion, homosexuality, etc. yet Christ never mentioned these. He did speak quite clearly (and repeatedly), however, about unforgiveness, anger, hatred, pride, lust-- and said that if we allow these things in our heart, then we've committed the sin already.



So, based on the explanation of the OP and some of the things you have heard here on CF, for instance, would you say that it appears many people are being deceived with only half of the truth, being told only half of the Gospel?

Well, I would agree that some are only presenting part of the gospel message--but actually includes many "Conservative Christians" (including many here at CCC).

There are some that are so busy arguing about specific actions that they are ignoring the issues of the heart-- which Jesus said was more important. Paul wrote "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". The word "out" there is better translated as "outwards". In other words, let the work of Christ on the inside work its way to the surface. If we focus on keeping our heart right with Christ, then we won't have to worry about specific actions... this is what Paul was speaking of when he said that the Gentiles, who had no Law, we a law unto themselves in that the Law was written on their hearts. It wasn't a matter of following detailed rules (which is legalism) but rather about being governed by Christ-like attitudes in everything we do-- which will automatically result in right behavior.

The OP speaks of "snakes" and "wolves"...

Look at WHO Jesus called such. It was NEVER the sinners that he spoke to this way. Rather, it was the "religious people"... those who were taking pride in how "holy" they were and were making it difficult for others to come to Him. It was the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes. These people he railed against, calling them "white washed sepulchres filled with dead mens bones". They looked good on the outside-- all nice and clean looking... but inside they were dead. They created all kinds of rules and regulations of what one must do to be "conservative"... yet they were filled with pride (which is the starting point of all sin).

On the other hand, look at how Jesus responded to those who were in sin:


John 8:3-11
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.For those that were sinners, we never-- not one single time-- see Jesus rail against them for being sinners. Rather, He was always gentle and kind. He was always there, quick to receive them into His arms. His teachings were full of stories like "the prodigal son"-- stories of reconciliation... not judgement.

Not only that, but He said that if anyone harmed one of "the little ones" that it was better that a millstone be tied around their neck and them thrown in the sea.

Personally... when it comes to the message of the Gospel, I want to pattern myself after Jesus and respond to people (and their sins) in the same way He did.



Another member here, stated that they believe that the ministry of Joel Osteen is a good example of what you might think of when you think of "half a gospel" being preached.

I agree with that as a good example of what the OP is talking about.

God bless
Scripture actually says "it is the goodness of God that brings men to repentance". The term "gospel" actually means "good news". When it comes to teaching the gospel, the message of scripture is "there's a better way of living. Sin kills and destroys-- BUT God wants to redeem your life and give you life more abundantly." Anyone who is focusing on sin is actually NOT focusing on the gospel... but rather on the problem.

In fact, those who focus more on the issues of sin are actually not teaching the "whole gospel", but rather are teaching Old Testament truths (namely, that God is holy; man is a sinner, and there is nothing we could ever do to earn God's grace) without teaching the full impact of the work of Christ towards those who believe in Him.

But what of those who want to "abuse" God grace- who don't really repent? Shouldn't we address them? Try to root them out?

Actually, Jesus was quite clear on how we are to deal with them:
Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

"'An enemy did this,' he replied.

"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

"'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'"
Jesus actually said we are NOT to try to root them out... since in our attempts to do so we will harm other true Christians. He said that "at the time of the harvest" the wheat and tares will be separated... but until then we are to leave them alone.

That is part of the gospel message as well... and one that we need to be obedient to, just like all other parts of the gospel.

[JimfromOhio]

The real question is, will a Christian be a true disciple? Becoming a disciple, following Jesus Christ requires personal cost, giving up your selfish "me" and become like Christ. Love is NOT conditional however discipleship is conditional. Jesus might have grieved over His Cost of Discipleship requirements, but He never ran after them to try to win them with rosy promises. Luke 14:27 And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:33 In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple. Spiritual liberty means the freedom to be all that we were designed to be, but this is not a freedom that is without restrictions or responsibilities. Grace is we live in the Spirit AND also walk in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit dwells in us with all the power and gifts of God, necessary to enable us to walk the noble, spiritual, Son-like life with God. With Grace, we can show mercy and help others (Heb. 4:13-16).

When we trivialize the Scriptures, we reduce God’s Commandments of our Christian Life to formulas (legalism) which lead me to be “proud” of my efforts, or we rationalize away the demands (liberalism) which makes me comfortable with my life, or we fabricate a list of things (agenda) we are going to do for God (moralism) which makes me tired, all three (legalism, liberalism and moralism) replaces God’s grace and need for Jesus Christ. If we allow ourselves to the bondage to a corruption of nature (i.e., legalism, liberalism and moralism), then we are not free as the Bible defines it. God gives Faith and God puts faith to work because the Holy Spirit through the Word of God, Who then lights up and directs my senses and my reasoning. I have learned that it is NOT about how strong my faith is, but rather how much I love "Who" I faith in. I can't have a right faith by anything I do because that is based on self-effort instead of what is given to me by the Holy Spirit who actually gives me strength through Grace. My faith is to trust God who makes me effective according to His will.

[JimfromOhio]

Actually, I would say that I was right on target with the OP-- I just looked at the big picture, not just at specific pieces.

The question was in 2 parts (unrelated parts--although I'm not sure the OP realizes that they are actually unrelated).

The first part was whether or not there was a such thing as "half-gospel". I showed that it is clear in scripture that Jesus did not teach everything to everyone-- some got part of the message, others got the rest of the message.

I also showed that in the early church, different people had different parts of the Gospel.




I would say that grace is free-- but it's not cheap. If His grace were not free, then it wouldn't be grace.

I do fully agree that we are to realize that follow Christ means dying to self (in other words, doing thing His way instead of our way). But I also realize that His way is not all about asceticism either... and actually, He taught more about our attitudes than our actions (which is actually stricter than just rules regarding one's actions).

So many here on CCC constantly talk about issues such as abortion, homosexuality, etc. yet Christ never mentioned these. He did speak quite clearly (and repeatedly), however, about unforgiveness, anger, hatred, pride, lust-- and said that if we allow these things in our heart, then we've committed the sin already.


Well, I would agree that some are only presenting part of the gospel message--but actually includes many "Conservative Christians" (including many here at CCC).

There are some that are so busy arguing about specific actions that they are ignoring the issues of the heart-- which Jesus said was more important. Paul wrote "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". The word "out" there is better translated as "outwards". In other words, let the work of Christ on the inside work its way to the surface. If we focus on keeping our heart right with Christ, then we won't have to worry about specific actions... this is what Paul was speaking of when he said that the Gentiles, who had no Law, we a law unto themselves in that the Law was written on their hearts. It wasn't a matter of following detailed rules (which is legalism) but rather about being governed by Christ-like attitudes in everything we do-- which will automatically result in right behavior.

The OP speaks of "snakes" and "wolves"...

Look at WHO Jesus called such. It was NEVER the sinners that he spoke to this way. Rather, it was the "religious people"... those who were taking pride in how "holy" they were and were making it difficult for others to come to Him. It was the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes. These people he railed against, calling them "white washed sepulchres filled with dead mens bones". They looked good on the outside-- all nice and clean looking... but inside they were dead. They created all kinds of rules and regulations of what one must do to be "conservative"... yet they were filled with pride (which is the starting point of all sin).

On the other hand, look at how Jesus responded to those who were in sin:

For those that were sinners, we never-- not one single time-- see Jesus rail against them for being sinners. Rather, He was always gentle and kind. He was always there, quick to receive them into His arms. His teachings were full of stories like "the prodigal son"-- stories of reconciliation... not judgement.

Not only that, but He said that if anyone harmed one of "the little ones" that it was better that a millstone be tied around their neck and them thrown in the sea.

Personally... when it comes to the message of the Gospel, I want to pattern myself after Jesus and respond to people (and their sins) in the same way He did.


Scripture actually says "it is the goodness of God that brings men to repentance". The term "gospel" actually means "good news". When it comes to teaching the gospel, the message of scripture is "there's a better way of living. Sin kills and destroys-- BUT God wants to redeem your life and give you life more abundantly." Anyone who is focusing on sin is actually NOT focusing on the gospel... but rather on the problem.

In fact, those who focus more on the issues of sin are actually not teaching the "whole gospel", but rather are teaching Old Testament truths (namely, that God is holy; man is a sinner, and there is nothing we could ever do to earn God's grace) without teaching the full impact of the work of Christ towards those who believe in Him.

But what of those who want to "abuse" God grace- who don't really repent? Shouldn't we address them? Try to root them out?

Actually, Jesus was quite clear on how we are to deal with them:
Jesus actually said we are NOT to try to root them out... since in our attempts to do so we will harm other true Christians. He said that "at the time of the harvest" the wheat and tares will be separated... but until then we are to leave them alone.

That is part of the gospel message as well... and one that we need to be obedient to, just like all other parts of the gospel.

Reps for you:thumbsup:

[Time2BCounted]

Actually, I would say that I was right on target with the OP-- I just looked at the big picture, not just at specific pieces.

No you are completely off base with the opening post, and from now on i would ask that you remain on topic, however i will take the time to shoot this reasoning down.

The question was in 2 parts (unrelated parts--although I'm not sure the OP realizes that they are actually unrelated).

How is understanding of a whole gospel, which teaches also of snakes and wolves unrelated if we wish to relate them as some here already have?

The first part was whether or not there was a such thing as "half-gospel". I showed that it is clear in scripture that Jesus did not teach everything to everyone-- some got part of the message, others got the rest of the message.

So you are an expert on what Jesus taught people, tell me who have you ever taught everything to at one time please? Teach the entire gospel inside a minute lol, or inside a day or inside 5 years. The lack of ability to teach something eternal to something finite has no bearing on teaching a whole or a half gospel in this context, and i would think this to be something you knew... im sorry you seem to be having such a hard time understanding what we are saying here lol.

I also showed that in the early church, different people had different parts of the Gospel.


Show us scripture proving the church taught only part of a gospel, youve shown no such thing, but i did need a good laugh this morning, thank you :thumbsup:


So many here on CCC constantly talk about issues such as abortion, homosexuality, etc. yet Christ never mentioned these. He did speak quite clearly (and repeatedly), however, about unforgiveness, anger, hatred, pride, lust-- and said that if we allow these things in our heart, then we've committed the sin already.

So again you are saying conservatives shouldnt be speaking out on homosexuality and abortion, even implying God didnt mention them. I have 2 questions,

1) Is the bible "God's Word"

and

2)is Christ God?


Well, I would agree that some are only presenting part of the gospel message--but actually includes many "Conservative Christians" (including many here at CCC).

There are some that are so busy arguing about specific actions that they are ignoring the issues of the heart-- which Jesus said was more important.

So in your mind is isnt important to teach our children what God said concerning homosexuality and life in the womb? Are you suggesting that we let the world teach them these things?

Youre also again saying that we shouldnt stand against these things... If paul did through the inspiration of the spirit why shouldnt we? Or do you believe we should allow homosexuals to be ordained into the ministry, is this what you suggest?



The OP speaks of "snakes" and "wolves"...

Look at WHO Jesus called such. It was NEVER the sinners that he spoke to this way. Rather, it was the "religious people"... those who were taking pride in how "holy" they were and were making it difficult for others to come to Him. It was the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes. These people he railed against, calling them "white washed sepulchres filled with dead mens bones". They looked good on the outside-- all nice and clean looking... but inside they were dead. They created all kinds of rules and regulations of what one must do to be "conservative"... yet they were filled with pride (which is the starting point of all sin).

Yes they revealed themselves by continually trying to trick Christ, by deflecting the core of His teachings and by excusing their own sin. They lied and used people to try to set Him up, like in the trial before the sanhedrin. They took advantage of people for their own gain, they used what was being brought to God do dress themselves and feed themselves as they worked their own agenda, not caring for the flock... I see this happening a lot in the leadership of the church today, just to justify the agendas of homosexuality and abortion and such.

The fact that a 'minister' would imply to conservatives that we are wrong for standing, imo is very close to the same thing, would you agree?

On the other hand, look at how Jesus responded to those who were in sin:

For those that were sinners, we never-- not one single time-- see Jesus rail against them for being sinners. Rather, He was always gentle and kind. He was always there, quick to receive them into His arms. His teachings were full of stories like "the prodigal son"-- stories of reconciliation... not judgement.


Wrong again, here's an example the other half of that gospel :)

John 6:26
Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.




Not only that, but He said that if anyone harmed one of "the little ones" that it was better that a millstone be tied around their neck and them thrown in the sea.

Have you ever hurt any of His little ones?

Personally... when it comes to the message of the Gospel, I want to pattern myself after Jesus and respond to people (and their sins) in the same way He did.

Why then are you against calling our religious leaders snakes and vipers and hypocrites?


Scripture actually says "it is the goodness of God that brings men to repentance". The term "gospel" actually means "good news". When it comes to teaching the gospel, the message of scripture is "there's a better way of living. Sin kills and destroys-- BUT God wants to redeem your life and give you life more abundantly." Anyone who is focusing on sin is actually NOT focusing on the gospel... but rather on the problem.


Is the gospel 'good news' for those who reject it?



But what of those who want to "abuse" God grace- who don't really repent? Shouldn't we address them? Try to root them out?

Actually, Jesus was quite clear on how we are to deal with them:
Jesus actually said we are NOT to try to root them out... since in our attempts to do so we will harm other true Christians. He said that "at the time of the harvest" the wheat and tares will be separated... but until then we are to leave them alone.

That is part of the gospel message as well... and one that we need to be obedient to, just like all other parts of the gospel.


You seem to misunderstand the bible, and the parables. Nowhere are we told not to seperate... in the parables of Matthew 13, PEOPLE ARE NOT the reapers, THE ANGELS OF GOD are the reapers, and this is verified in matthew 24:29-31. It is the HOLY ANGELS who are not to attempt to seperate the wheat from the tares but we are most assuredly to seperate ourselves from the tatres... what you are offering isnt even a half gospel, but totally errant scripturally speaking

Matthew 10
33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.


1 Corinthians 5:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=5&verse=9&version=9&context=verse)
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:


1 Corinthians 5:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=5&verse=11&version=9&context=verse)
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.


2 Thessalonians 3:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=60&chapter=3&verse=14&version=9&context=verse)
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.


2 Jn
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.



So why would you apply an errant teaching to matthew 13, not only teaching humans are the holy angels, but also teaching that we are not to seperate ourselves from false doctrine and those contrary to the word, as we are taught?

[SwirlingEd]

Even today, with the scriptures being readily available for all, anyone who is honest will admit that what they believe/practice is not the "whole gospel"-- since none of us perfectly know and understand all of the teaching of scripture. We should all be growing in our knowledge/understanding of the gospel-- but if anyone thinks they fully understand it all, then their pride has blinded them from the truth already.

:amen: :amen: :amen:

[shrewdsnake]

Have you ever hurt any of His little ones?

Is the gospel 'good news' for those who reject it?

I would imagine many if not all of us have hurt people, especially our brother and sister, and not realized it. Hurt isn't something the person doing it sees but the one on the receiving end feels.

The gospel is good news, period. Since we don't know who may or may not reject it or accept it I don't think we should hold it back from anyone at anytime. Two years from now the one you give the gospel to may finally get it and you may have thought they didn't deserve to hear it. Where does that leave you?

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

:amen: :amen: :amen:
The same person you are amening then goes on to present doctrine that isnt even gospel at all, but completely errant, teaching that the church are the reapers of matthew 13 ;)

May i ask why you 'amen' false doctrine, or are you just amening the part that implies we are all ignorant of a full or whole gospel?

In your opinion what is the whole gospel? Is it good news for everyone?

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

I would imagine many if not all of us have hurt people, especially our brother and sister, and not realized it. Hurt isn't something the person doing it sees but the one on the receiving end feels.

The gospel is good news, period. Since we don't know who may or may not reject it or accept it I don't think we should hold it back from anyone at anytime. Two years from now the one you give the gospel to may finally get it and you may have thought they didn't deserve to hear it. Where does that leave you?
What is the gospel for those who continually would reject it unto death? What's the good news for them?

[shrewdsnake]

What is the gospel for those who continually would reject it unto death? What's the good news for them?

The fact that God can forgive and even reward anyone of us is good news. It should be presented to everyone and anyone who would listen. If a person dies without having belief or accepting Christ then I would imagine it's not good news for them. Doesn't change the fact that we should be witnessing and sharing it with them anyway since we have no idea who is going to be saved and who isn't. I don't particularly care for the "they don't deserve to hear it" kinda message. Christ never withheld the gospel from anyone, even Saul was given the opportunity to repent. Last time I checked you have to interact with people to get the Word to them. While I don't need to be friends or confidants with them I certainly better show them I am willing to associate with them and actually care about them for my message to be real. Especially with teens. They can smell a rat.

[Time2BCounted]

The fact that God can forgive and even reward anyone of us is good news. It should be presented to everyone and anyone who would listen. If a person dies without having belief or accepting Christ then I would imagine it's not good news for them. Doesn't change the fact that we should be witnessing and sharing it with them anyway since we have no idea who is going to be saved and who isn't. I don't particularly care for the "they don't deserve to hear it" kinda message. Christ never withheld the gospel from anyone, even Saul was given the opportunity to repent. Last time I checked you have to interact with people to get the Word to them. While I don't need to be friends or confidants with them I certainly better show them I am willing to associate with them and actually care about them for my message to be real. Especially with teens. They can smell a rat.
Hi shrewdsnake

First, youll find no one stating that we shouldnt share it with everyone, i dont understand where you would assume this or why.

Secondly you are right, the gospel is NOT good news for those who will for all time reject it.

Thirdly, we are commanded to not company with those who present 'another gospel'

[SwirlingEd]

The same person you are amening then goes on to present doctrine that isnt even gospel at all, but completely errant, teaching that the church are the reapers of matthew 13 ;)

May i ask why you 'amen' false doctrine, or are you just amening the part that implies we are all ignorant of a full or whole gospel?

In your opinion what is the whole gospel? Is it good news for everyone?

You crack me up. ^_^ I've never seen anyone twist things around the way you do. I may have to rep you for your skills of spin.

I "amened" the part I quoted. Yes, I am amused by people that are delusional enough to believe they know the whole truth. You boldly declare that Frick is presenting false doctrine as if you have anything more than your faith and personal interpretation to reference. You somehow have all of the facts?

From my perspective, the whole gospel is Jesus Christ. Period. Rules, regulations, holiness guidelines, stances and opinions are all fine and good for people to use as a framework to live their lives. But they are not the gospel.

[Cromwe11]

The same person you are amening then goes on to present doctrine that isnt even gospel at all, but completely errant, teaching that the church are the reapers of matthew 13 ;)

May i ask why you 'amen' false doctrine, or are you just amening the part that implies we are all ignorant of a full or whole gospel?

In your opinion what is the whole gospel? Is it good news for everyone?
I think you're misrepresenting his point regarding Matthew 13.

He isn't saying that we are the reapers who seperate out the tares and bring in the harvest.. he's saying we are the servants of the master who come in saying "master someone put tares among the wheat, what should we do"

If you look at the parable, its pretty clear that the reapers are different than the servants. Because the master says to the servants "no don't go in and take out the tares because you'll uproot the wheat as well, but when the harvest is ready, then I'll send in the reapers..." So obviously the servants aren't the reapers.

Rick's point was that sometimes it can be a mistake to try and root out the false believers among the Christians because in doing so you do more harm to the Christians than good.

I think his point is valid, considering thats pretty much what the parable says.

That doesn't mean that we don't be on the watch for false teachers and false prophets. It doesn't mean we don't point them out and oppose them. We have a responsability to guard against false teachers and false doctrines. Thats different though, than trying to cast out all the false believers and people we don't think meet our standards.

[Izdaari]

Yes. There was a story on 60 minutes about Joel Osteen who I think offers a half gospel.

I would hope we are teaching our kids all sides of scripture because eventually they are going to get old enough to research and read the Bible themselves and who wants to find out they were basically lied to?
I said yes and no, and Joel Osteen is a good example of why:

It's true that Joel doesn't teach all of it... but it's also true that people who listen to him also have access to other teachers. I think the part he does teach is very helpful, just exactly what many, many people need. IMO it isn't emphasized enough by other teachers, and I think he's doing what God called him to do by filling that gap.

As Christ-followers, we ought to learn all the scriptures and all the truth there is to know, but it isn't right to criticize a gifted teacher for concentrating on his specialties... unless that was the only teacher available to a given flock, so that if he didn't teach it, it wouldn't get taught.

[JimfromOhio]

I think you're misrepresenting his point regarding Matthew 13.

He isn't saying that we are the reapers who seperate out the tares and bring in the harvest.. he's saying we are the servants of the master who come in saying "master someone put tares among the wheat, what should we do"

If you look at the parable, its pretty clear that the reapers are different than the servants. Because the master says to the servants "no don't go in and take out the tares because you'll uproot the wheat as well, but when the harvest is ready, then I'll send in the reapers..." So obviously the servants aren't the reapers.

Rick's point was that sometimes it can be a mistake to try and root out the false believers among the Christians because in doing so you do more harm to the Christians than good.

I think his point is valid, considering thats pretty much what the parable says.

That doesn't mean that we don't be on the watch for false teachers and false prophets. It doesn't mean we don't point them out and oppose them. We have a responsability to guard against false teachers and false doctrines. Thats different though, than trying to cast out all the false believers and people we don't think meet our standards.

I agree. These are spiritual matters about which we must be legitimately honest and in which we must seek the discernment of the Holy Spirit. God never gives us discernment in order that we may criticize, but that we may intercede. God uses our own suffering to purge sin from our lives, strengthen our commitment to Him, force us to depend on grace, bind us together with other believers, produce discernment, foster sensitivity, discipline our minds, spend our time wisely, stretch our hope, cause us to know Christ better, make us long for truth, lead us to repentance of sin, teach us to give thanks in time of sorrow, increase faith, and strengthen character.

For the believer, sufferings has meaning; all adversity is profitable. There is no question that adversity is difficult. Christians are responsible to exercise caution and discernment, especially in temporal and spiritual matters. Discernment is the means God uses to literally divide light from darkness, truth from falsehood, right motive from wrong motive, selflessness from selfishness.

[CTyer]

^_^heh, heh, this reminds me of something I heard on one of them Christian radio stations one time while I was driving down a little road in my beat up old station wagon I had at the time, and the Pastor on the radio was telling a story about folks that tend to church hop and such because they didn't like this one or that one, for whatever reason or they didn't like how this, that or the other was done or whatever was their issue. And the Pastor said his advice to folks that say things such as that is, if you find the perfect Church, please don't go there, because as soon as you show up, it won't be perfect any more. ^_^ I think that good ole boy had a wise story there. We could all learn a little something from it, I reckon. :thumbsup: Peace in Christ, CT

[shrewdsnake]

I said yes and no, and Joel Osteen is a good example of why:

It's true that Joel doesn't teach all of it... but it's also true that people who listen to him also have access to other teachers. I think the part he does teach is very helpful, just exactly what many, many people need. IMO it isn't emphasized enough by other teachers, and I think he's doing what God called him to do by filling that gap.

As Christ-followers, we ought to learn all the scriptures and all the truth there is to know, but it isn't right to criticize a gifted teacher for concentrating on his specialties... unless that was the only teacher available to a given flock, so that if he didn't teach it, it wouldn't get taught.

I would agree. I know many Christians who have never picked up a Bible and read it for themselves. They just use it to follow along with the preacher. Anyone who is serious about growing their faith should be studying on their own.

[IamRedeemed]

Reps to you! :amen:

Sorry CT, I'll have to get you on my next batch!
I am out of reps at that moment! I should get more to give some time later today. I won't forget!

God bless!

^_^heh, heh, this reminds me of something I heard on one of them Christian radio stations one time while I was driving down a little road in my beat up old station wagon I had at the time, and the Pastor on the radio was telling a story about folks that tend to church hop and such because they didn't like this one or that one, for whatever reason or they didn't like how this, that or the other was done or whatever was their issue. And the Pastor said his advice to folks that say things such as that is, if you find the perfect Church, please don't go there, because as soon as you show up, it won't be perfect any more. ^_^ I think that good ole boy had a wise story there. We could all learn a little something from it, I reckon. :thumbsup: Peace in Christ, CT

[LilLamb219]

Ladies and Gentlemen, please post in a more gracious manner or the thread will be closed.

[Father Rick]

The same person you are amening then goes on to present doctrine that isnt even gospel at all, but completely errant, teaching that the church are the reapers of matthew 13 ;)
No... I did not say, or in any way imply such in my post.

I actually stated exactly the opposite... that when the disciples asked Christ about going into separate out the wheat from the tares that Christ said for them to not do anything except wait til "the end of the age".

I think you're misrepresenting his point regarding Matthew 13.

He isn't saying that we are the reapers who seperate out the tares and bring in the harvest.. he's saying we are the servants of the master who come in saying "master someone put tares among the wheat, what should we do"

If you look at the parable, its pretty clear that the reapers are different than the servants. Because the master says to the servants "no don't go in and take out the tares because you'll uproot the wheat as well, but when the harvest is ready, then I'll send in the reapers..." So obviously the servants aren't the reapers.

Rick's point was that sometimes it can be a mistake to try and root out the false believers among the Christians because in doing so you do more harm to the Christians than good.

I think his point is valid, considering thats pretty much what the parable says.

That doesn't mean that we don't be on the watch for false teachers and false prophets. It doesn't mean we don't point them out and oppose them. We have a responsability to guard against false teachers and false doctrines. Thats different though, than trying to cast out all the false believers and people we don't think meet our standards.
Exactly...

One of the biggest problems I have seen in churches of all denominations is when someone appoints themself as "the" determiner of who is wheat and who is a tare... and goes running in headlong to "protect the wheat" by "marking" or "taking out" the tares, only to a) inadvertantly confuse young/immature wheat with tares and destroy some in the process and b) have the damage done to young ones have collateral damage causing much hurt/injury to other "wheat" that have a close relationship with those who were injured.

It's one thing to simply, consistently present truth. It's another thing altogether to take on the role of the Holy Spirit and to try to "correct" everyone who hasn't reached a point in Christ that we think they should have. The truth of the matter is that no matter how much we seek Christ, no matter how much we grow in Him, there will always be areas in which both our doctrine and our practice is flawed. Judging someone else just because they don't have the same flaws we do-- excusing our own flaws, yet not extending the same grace to cover theirs-- well, didn't Jesus say something about a speck in your brother's eye?

[Cromwe11]

No... I did not say, or in any way imply such in my post.

I actually stated exactly the opposite... that when the disciples asked Christ about going into separate out the wheat from the tares that Christ said for them to not do anything except wait til "the end of the age".


Exactly...

One of the biggest problems I have seen in churches of all denominations is when someone appoints themself as "the" determiner of who is wheat and who is a tare... and goes running in headlong to "protect the wheat" by "marking" or "taking out" the tares, only to a) inadvertantly confuse young/immature wheat with tares and destroy some in the process and b) have the damage done to young ones have collateral damage causing much hurt/injury to other "wheat" that have a close relationship with those who were injured.

It's one thing to simply, consistently present truth. It's another thing altogether to take on the role of the Holy Spirit and to try to "correct" everyone who hasn't reached a point in Christ that we think they should have. The truth of the matter is that no matter how much we seek Christ, no matter how much we grow in Him, there will always be areas in which both our doctrine and our practice is flawed. Judging someone else just because they don't have the same flaws we do-- excusing our own flaws, yet not extending the same grace to cover theirs-- well, didn't Jesus say something about a speck in your brother's eye?
The Church has a lot of problems right now. Its kind of over-whelming when you begin to see the big picture. Pretty much all of the problems are born of pride and rebellion. Or at least they are manifest that way.

[BigNorsk]

This is up for poll and debate from outside members of cc.

The question is, are there such things as half gospels, and whole gospels and should we teach our children the 'negative' sides of scripture, such as Jesus referancing snakes and wolves and turning tables in the temple?

Well usually I see the term whole gospel used in a not very useful manner. Usually it is used in reference to hammering people with the law as if those who do not are not preaching the whole gospel.

Now there is truth to that. But using the term gospel in reference to everything in the bible is really misleading when used that way.

In the narrower sense, the gospel is the good news. Those promises of God to save us through his gifts.

To say that we are all sinners and sin produces death and treat that as the gospel is confusing. It is law, and the law prepares the way for the gospel, but the law doesn't save.

What happens when hammering people with hellfire and brimstone is taken to be the full gospel is that law becomes elevated over gospel, and dominates in the preaching and teaching. This is a misapplication, gospel should be predominate. Believers coming from church should not be staggering under the load of law thrown on their backs, but should be strenghthened and clinging to the cross in faith.

So instead of using the term the whole gospel, it would be better to say the preacher preaches both law and gospel, the full word of God.

There's really no half gospel for the gospel is a single unit of those things that save us. Now it's not a test that you must know every single thing or be lost, but it's all really the same message, simply explained over and over to us and presented in different forms.

Marv