The right to face accusers forum

[ravenscape]

From the OP:

With the report threads closed how can a person defend themselves? We need the reports open again or an alternative.

Per New announcement (http://foru.ms/t6422716-reports-protocol-revision-semi-private.html): Reports will be semi-private. The reportee will be able to read and post in the report thread.

[Evangelica]

With the report threads closed how can a person defend themselves? We need the reports open again or an alternative.

[Tiger Lily]

Oh you mean like democracy? Umm, good luck with your endeavor. I liked the open reports forum, too. :)

[A New Dawn]

I liked the open reports, too.

[Tonks]

People can defend themselves against capricious moderation via the reconcilation team.

This is an internet message board...not a study in american jurisprudence.

[A New Dawn]

People can defend themselves against capricious moderation via the reconcilation team.

This is an internet message board...not a study in american jurisprudence.

Why can't the moderators just answer questions or talk to us when there is an issue? Is there a new policy regarding member/moderator communication?

[Tonks]

What questions would you like answered?

Likewise, within open reports I saw a level of rudness / hostility that was far beyond what I ever saw in the open forums...and it carried over privately between members.

[A New Dawn]

What questions would you like answered?

Likewise, within open reports I saw a level of rudness / hostility that was far beyond what I ever saw in the open forums...and it carried over privately between members.

You must not be posting in the same forums that I post in, then. :sigh:

[Lindon Tinuviel]

What questions would you like answered?

Likewise, within open reports I saw a level of rudness / hostility that was far beyond what I ever saw in the open forums...and it carried over privately between members.

All of which only speaks to the character of those Members, not to the system.

[3girls2dogs]

This is not a US-Government run facility. This is a private business. The Constitution does not cover this message board.

[Lindon Tinuviel]

I don't believe anyone's claimed otherwise in this thread, 3girls.

The right to face accusers is not an American invention. The concept dates back to pre-history, in fact. There are good reasons for its longevity, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss its application here.

[WarEagle]

With the report threads closed how can a person defend themselves? We need the reports open again or an alternative.

The whole point of keeping them closed is to keep posters from being able to defend themselves.

They need the reports to be closed.

Reminds me of what Jesus said in John 3:

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest

[Evangelica]

YOUR POST in Suggest New Forums has been REPORTED 11-12-2007


Hi, your post has been reported:

The right to face accusers forum

Message:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelica
With the report threads closed how can a person defend themselves? We need the reports open again or an alternative.

http://foru.ms/showthread.php?postid...8#post40415008 (http://foru.ms/showthread.php?postid=40415008#post40415008)

This is part of this thread:

The right to face accusers forum
http://foru.ms/t6372741 (http://foru.ms/t6372741)

This is the reason that the reporter gave:
Should this be moved to rules discussion?

The Report Thread in the Staff Forum is here:
http://foru.ms/t6417545 (http://foru.ms/t6417545)

This message has been sent to all moderators of this forum, or all administrators if there are no moderators. Please be patient as staff may not be online at the moment. Staff may choose not to let you know the outcome of this report. Feel free to PM the moderators of this forum if you have any queries about your report.


MyForu.ms Link: ChrisBot.foru.ms (http://chrisbot.foru.ms/) (24074 views)




As you wish! Crispy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[3girls2dogs]

What is your point in posting the report PM, Evangelica?

[ravenscape]

This thread has been moved from Suggest New Forums to Wiki/Rules Discussion.

Per new announcement (http://foru.ms/t6422716-reports-protocol-revision-semi-private.html): Reports will be semi-private. The reportee will be able to read and post in the report thread.

[Lindon Tinuviel]

Ah! There's the title! Excellent....

[ravenscape]

Yeah. That was a little odd. I think everything's fixed now.

I'm trying to find out what's up with the RFE you mentioned, but won't learn anything specific til the involved parties are online, unfortunately.

[E-beth]

Per new announcement (http://foru.ms/t6422716-reports-protocol-revision-semi-private.html): Reports will be semi-private. The reportee will be able to read and post in the report thread.

I think this is a very agreeable compromise. :)

[WarEagle]

I'll give you a perfect example of why the reports need to remain open.

This morning, somebody reported one of my threads as being "racist", when all I did was to quote a racist statement that John Street, the mayor of Philadelphia said.

I didn't bring race into it, nor did I say anything racist, but somebody still took it upon themselves to spite report me.

Now, because I'm not allowed to defend myself, the moderators are going to have an excuse to punish me for something I never did and I won't have any opportunity to defend myself.

[Evangelica]

This thread has been moved from Suggest New Forums to Wiki/Rules Discussion.

Per new announcement (http://foru.ms/t6422716-reports-protocol-revision-semi-private.html): Reports will be semi-private. The reportee will be able to read and post in the report thread.

I'll give you a perfect example of why the reports need to remain open.

This morning, somebody reported one of my threads as being "racist", when all I did was to quote a racist statement that John Street, the mayor of Philadelphia said.

I didn't bring race into it, nor did I say anything racist, but somebody still took it upon themselves to spite report me.

Now, because I'm not allowed to defend myself, the moderators are going to have an excuse to punish me for something I never did and I won't have any opportunity to defend myself.
If you were the one reported then you would be able to read the report and post in the report, according to Ravenscape.
However it seems that because it's a thread that you started, you that was reported, there's no reason why you shouldn't be.
Am I missing something?

[Evangelica]

Dbl post

[A New Dawn]

I'll give you a perfect example of why the reports need to remain open.

This morning, somebody reported one of my threads as being "racist", when all I did was to quote a racist statement that John Street, the mayor of Philadelphia said.

I didn't bring race into it, nor did I say anything racist, but somebody still took it upon themselves to spite report me.

Now, because I'm not allowed to defend myself, the moderators are going to have an excuse to punish me for something I never did and I won't have any opportunity to defend myself.

Part of the reason you are still getting notifications of reported posts is so that you can write to one of the forum mods and explain why you made the comment you made, etc., and ask them to paste your statement into the report.

[snoochface]

Part of the reason you are still getting notifications of reported posts is so that you can write to one of the forum mods and explain why you made the comment you made, etc., and ask them to paste your statement into the report.
Why would he have to ask them to do that? Why couldn't he just comment himself in the report thread?

[ravenscape]

I'm not sure the tech people have coded the reports forums so that reportees can access them yet. Has anyone been able to access their report threads via the link in a report PM?

[Bombila]

While opening reports to reportees for viewing and comment is a good move, it still fails to allow the general membership to see that how moderation is performed and whether it seems to be working properly. Being able to see and participate in report threads gives members better knowledge of what can and can't be posted.

I've also suggested that some members could really use assistance in a report thread. I'm capable of defending myself, but there are members who are very young, or use English as a second language, or are not very literate, etc., who might be at a disadvantage on their own.

There was a vague suggestion that members of the Reconciliation Team could help such individuals, but it wasn't actually stated that this would happen, or whether the RT would only come in after the fact if the reportee disagreed with the Report outcome.

My suggestion, especially now that Appeals are closing, was that a reportee could have the option of asking another member to act as an assistant or advocate in the report thread. That would help with fairness to such disadvantaged members.

There is still far too much secrecy here. People will bring up the fact that 'other forums don't have open this or that', but other forums rarely have the Byzantine complex of ever-changing rules we have here, piled on top of a religion-specific set of free speech limitations.

[ContentInHim]

Part of the reason you are still getting notifications of reported posts is so that you can write to one of the forum mods and explain why you made the comment you made, etc., and ask them to paste your statement into the report.
He didn't make a comment. He posted a pc-approved though reverse-racist remark made by a black mayor about his black "brothers" running the show in Philly. How is it righteous to report the post? War Eagle didn't say it - Mayor Street said it. :scratch:

pc has run way amuck in 4U. :(

[Evangelica]

I'm not sure the tech people have coded the reports forums so that reportees can access them yet. Has anyone been able to access their report threads via the link in a report PM?

While opening reports to reportees for viewing and comment is a good move, it still fails to allow the general membership to see that how moderation is performed and whether it seems to be working properly. Being able to see and participate in report threads gives members better knowledge of what can and can't be posted.

I've also suggested that some members could really use assistance in a report thread. I'm capable of defending myself, but there are members who are very young, or use English as a second language, or are not very literate, etc., who might be at a disadvantage on their own.

There was a vague suggestion that members of the Reconciliation Team could help such individuals, but it wasn't actually stated that this would happen, or whether the RT would only come in after the fact if the reportee disagreed with the Report outcome.

My suggestion, especially now that Appeals are closing, was that a reportee could have the option of asking another member to act as an assistant or advocate in the report thread. That would help with fairness to such disadvantaged members.

There is still far too much secrecy here. People will bring up the fact that 'other forums don't have open this or that', but other forums rarely have the Byzantine complex of ever-changing rules we have here, piled on top of a religion-specific set of free speech limitations.
It sounds to me like an ombudsman board is needed.

[Evangelica]

Part of the reason you are still getting notifications of reported posts is so that you can write to one of the forum mods and explain why you made the comment you made, etc., and ask them to paste your statement into the report.
Moderators should not be mediators. imho

[A New Dawn]

He didn't make a comment. He posted a pc-approved though reverse-racist remark made by a black mayor about his black "brothers" running the show in Philly. How is it righteous to report the post? War Eagle didn't say it - Mayor Street said it. :scratch:

pc has run way amuck in 4U. :(

And that is what should be explained in the PM to the moderator to be included in the report. :)

[A New Dawn]

Why would he have to ask them to do that? Why couldn't he just comment himself in the report thread?

Because it is not set up for that type of interaction at present?

I am not suggesting that I approve of the change that has been made, I am saying that he is not left without recourse. He has the knowledge that his post has been reported, and why, so he can still stand in his own defense, just through a middleman.

[A New Dawn]

Moderators should not be mediators. imho

Moderators should be mediators. But since most people assign them the role of police, instead, they can still (and did for years before the couple of months of open reports) copy and paste communication into the report.

[PonytailGinger]

For what it's worth, the U. S. didn't invent democracy. I believe it was the ancient Greeks.

[Evangelica]

all great civilizations fall when their athletes and stars are the highest paid. more trivia, but your off topic ginger.

[ContentInHim]

And that is what should be explained in the PM to the moderator to be included in the report. :)
Agreed that he will HAVE to, New Dawn. But the fact that the report was made in the first place is laughable. And should be dismissed on its face.

Is there any recourse to reprimand someone who makes reports like was made against War Eagle?

[xxkingskidlmxx]

ihis has to do with the spirit of the law, when what is addressed in the reports is the letter of the law. let's not get bogged down in details of one report, which only serves to smokescreen this issue.
if a mediator board gets the complaints then how could that filter to the reports? it's not blanket answer to one reporter or reported, it's about a means of moderating the moderators, as well as screening made available to the public, so that they can have a veiw of who is running the show as far as rules and ruling is involved.

[Evangelica]

As you wish! Crispy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What is your point in posting the report PM, Evangelica?
The point of reporting the post was that as the OP of the thread there was no way to contact a pm from Crisbot,,, (which is how I recieved the notice of the report) to get the thread moved here.
So, another good point. How is a report even replied to? never mind finding out anything about it when the report comes from a robot.

[A New Dawn]

Agreed that he will HAVE to, New Dawn. But the fact that the report was made in the first place is laughable. And should be dismissed on its face.

Is there any recourse to reprimand someone who makes reports like was made against War Eagle?

People report all kinds of things that are not rule violations simple because they disagree with them and don't want to take the time or effort to counter them.

I can't answer your question except to say that if the same thing happens over and over and it is the same person(s) reporting them, a case could be made for spite reporting.

[ravenscape]

The point of reporting the post was that as the OP of the thread there was no way to contact a pm from Crisbot,,, (which is how I recieved the notice of the report) to get the thread moved here.
So, another good point. How is a report even replied to? never mind finding out anything about it when the report comes from a robot.
Hi Evangelica,

You can always contact someone on the team that's responsible for the forum where your post was reported. That's also the team that will receive the report.

[Lindon Tinuviel]

Sorry for the confusion, War Eagle. I did not, in fact, receive your Request for Edit. I received my own, but Alidar merely put your name in the greeting by accident, and I neglected to read any farther.

Not that it matters, though, since Staff has taken it upon themselves to delete posts which have not even been reported, without the courtesy of a RFE.

[WarEagle]

Sorry for the confusion, War Eagle. I did not, in fact, receive your Request for Edit. I received my own, but Alidar merely put your name in the greeting by accident, and I neglected to read any farther.

No problem.

Not that it matters, though, since Staff has taken it upon themselves to delete posts which have not even been reported, without the courtesy of a RFE.

Any post can be censored or deleted at any time for any reason, depending on what mood a particular moderator is in that day.

I pointed out to a moderator that several posts in a thread in GA were in clear violation of the rule that says that blaspheming God is not allowed.

Rather than enforce the rule and cleaning up the posts that blasphemed God, he just told me "choose not to be offended" and then deleted my post, pointing out that the rules say that they're not allowed to blaspheme God.

In other words, posters who blaspheme God get favorable treatment over those who stand up for sound doctrine and for the holiness of God's name.

I think it's just about time to man the lifeboats and abandon this sinking ship.

[Lindon Tinuviel]

Nah, this place is perfectly fine. What we need is a top-to-bottom applecart turnover.

[Evangelica]

something is wrong with this thread. When I try to access page 5 I get page 4 repeat, anyone else having the same problem?

[Lindon Tinuviel]

Lots of threads do that. I kept trying to go to page 7 of some thread or another, and all it would give me is a blank page.

There are several reasons it could happen, most of them having to do with the way the database keeps track of what's posted where.

Hidden (soft deleted), unapproved, and de-queued posts can sometimes cause that effect, too, especially if you're viewing the thread while the action's taking place.

[Evangelica]

umm, I think *Soul Wing* was on at the same time, and yes, that would show as page 5 if a post was deleted, since my post is 41, mysterious

[Evangelica]

Hi Evangelica,

You can always contact someone on the team that's responsible for the forum where your post was reported. That's also the team that will receive the report.
What happens then?