I want to become a fundamentalist

[maelstrom]

Hi, I've gotten fed up with all the un-Biblical stuff in modern churches, and ever since I became a Christian I've gotten to be more and more of a fundamentalist.

My problem is, where do I find a congregation with similar beliefs? There are almost no young people who share my beliefs on abstinence, etc. that I've found, and I'm not even sure there are any old people like that anymore. I feel alone among Christians. I want to find a fundamentalist Christian church, but where do I look? Do I have to be a Republican to join one? I'd like to find one that doesn't believe in participating in secular government.

[daniel777]

welcome to the world bro.

[Albion]

Hi, I've gotten fed up with all the un-Biblical stuff in modern churches, and ever since I became a Christian I've gotten to be more and more of a fundamentalist.

My problem is, where do I find a congregation with similar beliefs? There are almost no young people who share my beliefs on abstinence, etc. that I've found, and I'm not even sure there are any old people like that anymore. I feel alone among Christians. I want to find a fundamentalist Christian church, but where do I look? Do I have to be a Republican to join one? I'd like to find one that doesn't believe in participating in secular government.

Fundamentalist churches are not hard to find. There are, for example, the Independent Fundamental Churches of America (IFCA) and most churches titled "Bible Church." Also, there are fundamentalist branches of most of the mainline Protestant denominations--Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. The question that comes immediately to my mind is whether or not you are seeking a church that agrees with you on a number of atypical doctrines that you hold, not just a Fundamentalist church. Fundamentalism affirms certain basics or essentials and accepts that there are differences beyond these which Fundamentalists disagree on.

[desmalia]

Hi, I've gotten fed up with all the un-Biblical stuff in modern churches, and ever since I became a Christian I've gotten to be more and more of a fundamentalist.

My problem is, where do I find a congregation with similar beliefs? There are almost no young people who share my beliefs on abstinence, etc. that I've found, and I'm not even sure there are any old people like that anymore. I feel alone among Christians. I want to find a fundamentalist Christian church, but where do I look? Do I have to be a Republican to join one? I'd like to find one that doesn't believe in participating in secular government.I know what you're going through. I've sure been there.

I will agree with Albion that if you life in a relatively well populated American city (or maybe even one of the smaller ones) you stand a pretty good chance of finding a solid Bible fundamentalist church. However, there are places where this is not the case. For instance, I live in western Canada, and recently moved to a new city. There are no fundie churches here at all. The most we could hope for were some moderately conservative, seeker-sensitive ones. That's it. So it does depend on where in the world you live. When I began researching churches in my new city I first sent out some questionaires and checked out websites of the churches in the area. It's a long and time-consuming (and I'll admit, at times depressing!) process, but well worth it.

Then I actually went to the Reformed sub-forum here on 4U and got a lot of excellent resources and advice. Here (http://foru.ms/t6113612-denominations.html)is a link to the thread if you are interested. I think you will find the websites there to be helpful in your search. They helped me and were an excellent education. I find reformed to be an easier word to use than fundamentalist when searching for a church. It's just a matter of semantics, really. Anyway, as you'll see, I was not able to find a good church because there are none here. But God did lead me to a wonderful reformed baptistic pastor (from out of town) who drives two hours into the city each week to lead Bible studies here, and one day we may even become a new church plant.

I also suggest that you spend lots of time praying for direction in this. God will lead you where He wants you to be.

OH, and about the political thing... I don't think good churches align themselves with a political party. So that should not have to be a major issue for you in your search.

[maelstrom]

Hmm I'll look in the phone books for "Bible" churches, that sounds like the kind of place I'd like.
The Bible is my doctrine (or rather, the Lord's teachings are my doctrine, but the Bible is our record of them), which is what fundamentalism means to me. I consider most churches to be departed from it in some way or another (not that any of us are perfect, but we need to start being more aware of our errors and how they are affecting the world).

[annie1speed]

In the Church of Christ we try to speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent, and the Bible is our creed.

I'd be happy to help you find one. Just send me a message.

Annie

[Albion]

Hmm I'll look in the phone books for "Bible" churches, that sounds like the kind of place I'd like.

It's a rather loose category of churches, not a denomination, but usually phone book listings do treat these churches categorically. And any of these churches with that word in their title/name is likely to be close to what you want and certainly not one that will turn out to be liberal. Although many do urge their members to involve themselves in politics, at least to the extent of voting wisely, you can find those that are opposed to that.

[NewGuy101]

I go to calvary chapeln right now. Although I strongly disagree with their theology (I am reformed) they are a relatively friendly church (generally speaking). They are strongly sola scriptura and dont push people to do anything.

[desmalia]

I go to calvary chapeln right now. Although I strongly disagree with their theology (I am reformed) they are a relatively friendly church (generally speaking). They are strongly sola scriptura and dont push people to do anything.
That's a good point. We can be fundamentalists even if we don't belong to fundamentalist churches. :thumbsup:

And PS, I love the new siggy and hat, Julio!
Never let it be said that fundies don't have a sense of humour!

[daniel777]

ye cood trie us southern babtists. "narrow way" and Matt. 7 (that grand finish to the sermon on the mount that 'christians' today aren't to fond of.) hallaluyer. (haha, i'm making fun of myself...oh, joy)

[NewGuy101]

That's a good point. We can be fundamentalists even if we don't belong to fundamentalist churches. :thumbsup:

And PS, I love the new siggy and hat, Julio!
Never let it be said that fundies don't have a sense of humour!
uh Desi, I think Calvary Chapel is a fundie church. :P

[desmalia]

uh Desi, I think Calvary Chapel is a fundie church. :P
So they're fundie, but not reformed? I'm curious to know how so.

[NewGuy101]

So they're fundie, but not reformed? I'm curious to know how so.
no lady

Calvary Chapel adheres more to a semi-palegian/armian system of soteriology. But they are still fundies like southern baptists, independent baptist, conservative lutherans..ect

I just go to that church because I have lots of friends. I am looking to join a reformed church soon.

[IamRedeemed]

Amen and God bless your willingness to stand "alone" but stand on the Word of God you will! amen.
I have always been non-denominational myself. I don't subscribe to extra doctrines imposed on congregations that
are not in the Word. A good church these days is hard to find. There seems to be an element of relativism creeping in to all kinds of unexpected places. A lot of churches went wayward too when they by the massload bought the doctrine of the "purpose driven lie". Try to see if a Church you are interested in has a web site. If not, you'll have to attend and "check it out". Don't be afraid to ask questions. If there is nothing to hide, there should be no offense and in fact, your questions should be welcomed and you even being commended for asking.

Hope that helps in some way. God bless!

Hmm I'll look in the phone books for "Bible" churches, that sounds like the kind of place I'd like.
The Bible is my doctrine (or rather, the Lord's teachings are my doctrine, but the Bible is our record of them), which is what fundamentalism means to me. I consider most churches to be departed from it in some way or another (not that any of us are perfect, but we need to start being more aware of our errors and how they are affecting the world).

[desmalia]

no lady

Calvary Chapel adheres more to a semi-palegian/armian system of soteriology. But they are still fundies like southern baptists, independent baptist, conservative lutherans..ect

I just go to that church because I have lots of friends. I am looking to join a reformed church soon.
I apologize for my ignorance, but I guess I'll need a further definition of palegian/armian. I tend to consider reformed and fundie to be very closely related. Thanks. :)

[NewGuy101]

I apologize for my ignorance, but I guess I'll need a further definition of palegian/armian. I tend to consider reformed and fundie to be very closely related. Thanks. :)
I misspelled both :P

Arminianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism)

Semipelagianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semipelagianism)

BTW there is liberal reformed churches like the PCUSA. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCUSA)

[desmalia]

I misspelled both :P

Arminianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism)

Semipelagianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semipelagianism)

BTW there is liberal reformed churches like the PCUSA. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCUSA)
Thanks for your quick response. I tend to believe that both, and in particular Arminianism, tend to be in dispute with fundamentalist Biblical doctrine. But that is my personal opinion, I suppose. :)

Oh... there's no denying it. I'm a Calvinist. I really am. It's time I just owned up to it! lol
The more I learn, the more I just can't help but see that the Glory of our Lord means so infinitely more than the comfort of man.

And yes I agree there are liberal Presbyterian churches. Unfortunately the Presby church in our area is one of them, which means there are no fundie or reformed churches here at all. :(

[desmalia]

Oh, and I'm very well aquainted with the Dutch Christian Reformed Church, which is certainly not Fundamentalist or truly reformed (anymore).

[BigNorsk]

Hi, I've gotten fed up with all the un-Biblical stuff in modern churches, and ever since I became a Christian I've gotten to be more and more of a fundamentalist.

My problem is, where do I find a congregation with similar beliefs? There are almost no young people who share my beliefs on abstinence, etc. that I've found, and I'm not even sure there are any old people like that anymore. I feel alone among Christians. I want to find a fundamentalist Christian church, but where do I look? Do I have to be a Republican to join one? I'd like to find one that doesn't believe in participating in secular government.

maelstrom,

If I may be a bit forward. Being a Charismatic like you are tends to mean one isn't a fundamentalist. I'm not saying none are, but there is a definite tendency to abandon sola Scriptura and instead go with one's feelings, or be led by what people say are prophecies or revelations from God. Just so you understand that, because it's quite likely that you will at least initially be rather turned off by a fundamentalist congregation because it's likely very different than what you are used to.

I would say Living Hope Lutheran would be worth a look in your town. http://livinghope.ccbchurch.com/app/w_page.php?id=1&type=section

Marv

[IamRedeemed]

With all due respect BigNorsk, and I do respect you, the Spiritual Gifts, although unfortunately
discounted by some and completely disregarded by others are completely Scriptural.
I agree, that just like anything else care must be taken to see that the fruit of the "gifts"
in practice are Scriptural.

So, while there are some "freaks" and some "freaky unBiblical" things going on out
there, it isn't fair to say that being "Charismatic" tends to mean that one isn't
fundamental in their beliefs.

I agree with you that he would not be comfortable in a Congregation that either
discounts or disregards the Gifts of the Holy Spirit though.

God bless.


maelstrom,

If I may be a bit forward. Being a Charismatic like you are tends to mean one isn't a fundamentalist. I'm not saying none are, but there is a definite tendency to abandon sola Scriptura and instead go with one's feelings, or be led by what people say are prophecies or revelations from God. Just so you understand that, because it's quite likely that you will at least initially be rather turned off by a fundamentalist congregation because it's likely very different than what you are used to.

I would say Living Hope Lutheran would be worth a look in your town. http://livinghope.ccbchurch.com/app/w_page.php?id=1&type=section

Marv

[Albion]

With all due respect BigNorsk, and I do respect you, the Spiritual Gifts, although unfortunately
discounted by some and completely disregarded by others are completely Scriptural.

As I read his post, I didn't find that he denied that they once operated in the Church.

Anyway, this is apart from what the author of the OP asked of us. He asked nothing about Charismatic gifts or worship at all.

[BigNorsk]

Just for the record, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are certainly operational in the Church today.

The problem comes in practice that people often turn away from sola Scriptura in their practices and so are by definition not fundamentalist.

Charismatics have a big problem with this because they are often centered on feelings and experiences. Ask Charismatics how they know things are true. Not many will pull out the Bible and say because it says so, which would be the response of a fundamentalist.

It gets confusing to people because some form of sola Scriptura is often in the statement of faith. But if you spend your time listening to and basing your life on the latest claimed revelation from God, you just aren't sola Scriptura are you?

Other groups are not sola Scriptura while claiming to be sola Scriptura too. Many churches still base their teachings on Modernism, the problem that the Fundamentalist movement was directed at correcting. If you sit and listen to a few sermons, and it's about the latest psychology and so on, you again are not in a fundamentalist congregation. That happens all over, even within groups that are generally fundamentalist.

Many others are now Postmodern, basically a form of Universalism where the only wrong is to tell someone they are wrong. Again, you aren't going to find a fundamentalist congregation if they are saying that there are multiple paths to God in their practices even if not in their statement of faith.

I was simply pointing out the problem to the original poster because when people have a hard time finding a particular type of church, it is usually because their assumptions make it impossible for them to find it. Often those assumptions are based on the same sort of stereotypes as racism and other prejudices are based. And they've heard something about some group that prevents them from trying it.

I didn't want to use terms like think outside the box, or you need a new paradigm, or such but that is indeed basically what I was recommending.

Marv

[Albion]

The problem comes in practice that people often turn away from sola Scriptura in their practices and so are by definition not fundamentalist.

Charismatics have a big problem with this because they are often centered on feelings and experiences. Ask Charismatics how they know things are true. Not many will pull out the Bible and say because it says so, which would be the response of a fundamentalist.

It gets confusing to people because some form of sola Scriptura is often in the statement of faith. But if you spend your time listening to and basing your life on the latest claimed revelation from God, you just aren't sola Scriptura are you?

Other groups are not sola Scriptura while claiming to be sola Scriptura too. Many churches still base their teachings on Modernism, the problem that the Fundamentalist movement was directed at correcting. If you sit and listen to a few sermons, and it's about the latest psychology and so on, you again are not in a fundamentalist congregation. That happens all over, even within groups that are generally fundamentalist.

Many others are now Postmodern, basically a form of Universalism where the only wrong is to tell someone they are wrong. Again, you aren't going to find a fundamentalist congregation if they are saying that there are multiple paths to God in their practices even if not in their statement of faith.

I was simply pointing out the problem to the original poster because when people have a hard time finding a particular type of church

Many good points here, BigN. I hope Maelstrom gets back to us with his reactions (if he's not heard more than he wanted from us already ;) ).

[Nadiine]

I looked all over, but I don't see a 'sign in' page here.
:scratch: How do you become a member here? :confused:
:hug:

[desmalia]

I looked all over, but I don't see a 'sign in' page here.
:scratch: How do you become a member here? :confused:
:hug:
http://foru.ms/t5831548;) :clap:

[maelstrom]

Again, what I'm looking for in a church is simply a "Bible-believing" congregation. Denominations don't matter--in fact I'd prefer no denomination, since denominations aren't mentioned in the Bible!

As for the Charismastic thing, I define charismatic as believing that when Jesus said the Holy Spirit would be sent as a Helper, that didn't just apply to the original apostles but to modern followers of Christ as well. The spiritual gifts are for us all.

Usually I go to Vineyard or Pentecostal churches, but I'm just not connecting there very well and am looking for something a little more conservative, not in the political sense of the word but in the "women aren't allowed to dress like hookers in the sanctuary" sense of the word.

I'm a fundamentalist in that I accept the Bible as the authority and believe it to be divinely-inspired (and that I'm just an old fogey in general who doesn't like all the modern nonsense that has corrupted the church). Then again, I don't always interpret the Bible literally--I'm more interested in the message God was giving us than the exact words in which it was given. The Bible doesn't say the whole Bible is verbally dictated by God--it merely says that scripture is God-breathed. There are parts of it that were verbally dictated, but that is generally indicated in the text. For example, when it says something along the lines of "I Paul am writing to you" or "I John am writing to you," obviously that's not being dictated by God because God would not call Himself Paul or John, but when it says "The Lord said 'such and such'" then that IS the verbal word of God.

[maelstrom]

About the sola Scripture versus personal revelations to followers... I think God *does* talk to His people. In fact, if you don't keep an open dialogue with God, you're probably doing something wrong. But you should check that anything He tells you goes along with the message already given--otherwise, how do you know it's really God? It's necessary to receive help from the Holy Spirit; that's why we have the Helper.

But the problem I've experienced is that the people behind the microphones usually have a "holier than thou" attitude, that THEIR prophecies are always from God, but if the rest of us think God is speaking to us, we're wrong.

They have an attitude of "well I've got an expensive diploma from a theological seminary, and I get a nice big paycheck to lead this church, so that makes me God's infallible prophet, and anything you say that goes against me is necessarily of the devil, regardless of what the Bible says."

I want to go to a church where, when it comes down to a choice between what the Bible says, and what the college-educated person says, we go with the Bible. But usually the leaders are so full of themselves that they just don't care about integrity to the Scriptures. That's probably not limited to just Charismatic churches, though--it's a problem that's plagued Christianity from the early years.

[desmalia]

Again, what I'm looking for in a church is simply a "Bible-believing" congregation. Denominations don't matter--in fact I'd prefer no denomination, since denominations aren't mentioned in the Bible!I think it's safe to say we're all looking for that. I do agree that denomination doesn't mean much these days, so it's best not to become too attached to any particular one. Churches within each denomination tend to vary widely anyway. However, I think you'll find it very helpful to read the satement of faith that various denominational conferences hold. That works as an excellent guideline. The majority of them have websites up, so you can do the research pretty easily. From there you still need to research individual churches in more detail, but it's a very good starting point.

As for the Charismastic thing, I define charismatic as believing that when Jesus said the Holy Spirit would be sent as a Helper, that didn't just apply to the original apostles but to modern followers of Christ as well. The spiritual gifts are for us all.Again, I don't think you'll find any argument here on that. Where we may differ is in how the gifts are used by God today, and when they are being abused by people.

Usually I go to Vineyard or Pentecostal churches, but I'm just not connecting there very well and am looking for something a little more conservative, not in the political sense of the word but in the "women aren't allowed to dress like hookers in the sanctuary" sense of the word. I think there is an exodus coming out of the Vinyard and Pentecostal churches right now as people like yourself begin to crave the meat of the word. I'm very excited about this. I've found both those denominations (speaking generally here, of course) to be focused too much on emotion and experience, and not enough on Scriptures. It's so wonderful to see believers stepping out and embracing more.

I'm a fundamentalist in that I accept the Bible as the authority and believe it to be divinely-inspired (and that I'm just an old fogey in general who doesn't like all the modern nonsense that has corrupted the church). Then again, I don't always interpret the Bible literally--I'm more interested in the message God was giving us than the exact words in which it was given. The Bible doesn't say the whole Bible is verbally dictated by God--it merely says that scripture is God-breathed. There are parts of it that were verbally dictated, but that is generally indicated in the text. For example, when it says something along the lines of "I Paul am writing to you" or "I John am writing to you," obviously that's not being dictated by God because God would not call Himself Paul or John, but when it says "The Lord said 'such and such'" then that IS the verbal word of God.Hehe, that's a can of worms you just opened up there. Based on the definition of fundamentalist, I think what you are saying is that you're actually more of a conservative. As fundamentalists we recognize that the Scriptures inspired or God-breathed, in that they are written by 100% God AND 100% man. Miraculous, but so very true. And so we believe that every word is in fact very important and worthy of deep study for proper understanding. Context is a word you'll see us use a lot.

About the sola Scripture versus personal revelations to followers... I think God *does* talk to His people. In fact, if you don't keep an open dialogue with God, you're probably doing something wrong. But you should check that anything He tells you goes along with the message already given--otherwise, how do you know it's really God? It's necessary to receive help from the Holy Spirit; that's why we have the Helper.You'll get some different opinions on this. I'll give you mine. I agree that God does speak to us today, and that he does that through Scripture, via the Holy Spirit working in us to reveal it to us. I believe that since the canon was closed, no new revelation has been needed as God has completed what He wants to reveal to us in this world. So to me it seems kinda backwords to look to a person giving revelation today and then have to run back to the Scriptures to make sure he's speaking the truth. Why not just go strait to the Scriptures to begin with. I'm not saying God can't or doesn't use people to speak His truth. Of course he can and does. But whenever it's dressed up as new revelation, it concerns me greatly. I firmly believe that the gift of prophesy is the gift of speaking His truth as written in Scripture. (Note: Nadiine has that gift. Check out some of her posts if you'd like to see it in practice.)

But the problem I've experienced is that the people behind the microphones usually have a "holier than thou" attitude, that THEIR prophecies are always from God, but if the rest of us think God is speaking to us, we're wrong.

They have an attitude of "well I've got an expensive diploma from a theological seminary, and I get a nice big paycheck to lead this church, so that makes me God's infallible prophet, and anything you say that goes against me is necessarily of the devil, regardless of what the Bible says."Man-focused preaching. It's a huge, huge problem in the church today, regardless of denomination.

I want to go to a church where, when it comes down to a choice between what the Bible says, and what the college-educated person says, we go with the Bible. But usually the leaders are so full of themselves that they just don't care about integrity to the Scriptures. That's probably not limited to just Charismatic churches, though--it's a problem that's plagued Christianity from the early years.:amen: