Does Jesus appear in the Talmud?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

You have my permission to delete this thread. Michael

[ChazakEmunah]

There is actually no textual evidence for a spelling of "Yahshua." Joshua in Hebrew is pronounced Yehoshua. Many sacred name groups have created the name "Yahshua," but it is no more than a fanciful attempt at inserting part of the name of HKB"H into everything. It just doesn't work.

[simchat_torah]

What does this have to do with the Talmud????

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[simchat_torah]

You're making no sense...

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[simchat_torah]

No no no... I understand your words, and I understand what you're saying. It just doesn't coordinate together.

Its like starting a thread with the title, "Why I like VW Bugs". Then in your first post you describe the color of strawberries. In your second post you tell me what type of shoes you bought yesterday. And in your third post you describe how photosynthesis works.

It doesn't relate, make sense, or "jive" together.

Your topis is: Does Jesus appear in the Talmud?

Then your first post you say that Jesus' real name was given by Moses (which you didn't prove by a long shot). Then you start talking about the difference between the Hebrew and Greek names for Jesus, etc. Your posts are extremely short, and lack a transition from one idea to the next. You need to better explain HOW and WHERE Jesus' name appears in Numbers 13, how you know that it is Jesus that Moses is talking about and naming, etc. Then you need to connect your ideas and relate it somehow to the Talmud.

All of this so far just seems like Sacred Name ideology punching me in the face. No proofs, no connections, nothing is related, ideas are disjointed... just a bunch of ranting about the true names of G-d, etc.

That's what doesn't make sense.

And to top it all off, you posted your first post in my formal debate challenge regarding the Talmud!??!???

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

wxyz

[ChavaK]

Moses gave the Hebrew name Yahshua to Hosea. Yahshua is Hebrew, and Joshua is the English spelling for Yahshua.

The Hebrew text clearly saya Y'ho shoo ah, not
Yashua.
Also, and this is not meant as an insult, where
did the name "Yeshua" for Jesus come from?
Wasn't the NT written in Greek? Is there a
historical usage of the name "Yeshua" for
Jesus, or is this a recent invention, which
is what I thought? :confused:

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[ChavaK]

Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah

I skimmed it-I don't see how it relates to
the spelling of Yehoshua though...
I also don't see any historical evidence
that the name "Yeshua" for Jesus is
anything other than a recent invention.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[simchat_torah]

The Talmud or Tanakh is a commentary, yes. You may not find what I said in them, but the bible shows us a mystery. Why did Moses call Hosea, Joshua. And again:Greek=Jesus: English=Joshua: Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic= Yahshua. Yahshua=Joshua.Then why even mention the Talmud in the title of this thread at all? Why did you initially put your reply in a debate regarding the Talmud? It still makes no sense.The Hebrew text clearly saya Y'ho shoo ah, notYashua.Also, and this is not meant as an insult, wheredid the name "Yeshua" for Jesus come from?Wasn't the NT written in Greek? Is there ahistorical usage of the name "Yeshua" forJesus, or is this a recent invention, whichis what I thought? It actually comes from Y'shua (or properly translitered "Yeshua"), the Aramaic name of Jesus (the language he himself would have spoken and the name he would have called himself). Or so goes the logic. The "Sacred Namers" try to force the Aramaic into the Hebrew, and then give it a really goofy English transliteration.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[simchat_torah]

I can't use scripture to prove that your mispronounciations are horrific.
-You'd have to be fluent in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, etc. to have a debate there.

I also can't use scritpure to prove that merely posting a link as a reply doesn't count as "discussion" on a discussion forum.
-That, my friend, is but common sense.

I also can't prove that you shouldn't quote a scripture verse when I ask "Why title a thread about the Talmud, yet there is no discussion what-so-ever in the thread regarding the subject in the title?"
-That requires logic. Something you seem to be failing at right now.

[TheRabbi]

Ancient Hebrew translates a little bit different than the modern.

This statement totally betrays your ignorance of hebrew. That's like saying King James English translates a bit different from modern English. In fact there is less difference between modern and classical hebrew than in KJ English and modern English.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[ChazakEmunah]

Simchat's the Anti-C*hrist?! That explains everything! ;)

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[TheRabbi]

In all of the languages of the world, throughout time, changes come about in language. For many different reasons. This is also true of the Hebrew language.

This is also a painfully ignorant statement. Hebrew did not develop over the last 2000 years because it was not used as a spoken language. It was studied. People wrote in it, but it was not conversationally spoken. It was effectively frozen in time for 2000 years. Eliezer Ben Yehuda simply stopped using some of the more complicated archaic form. Anyone remotely familiar with the Bible in Israel knows these forms and the religious will often pepper their conversation with these archaic throwbacks to classical Hebrew.

[stone]

mtaa,

Are you a Jehovah's Witness?

[simchat_torah]

no, he's a Sacred Namer.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[Lulav]

And Yahshua is a god who was sent by Yahwah, born in the flesh.So you believe in two gods?

[Lulav]

No no no... I understand your words, and I understand what you're saying. It just doesn't coordinate together.

And to top it all off, you posted your first post in my formal debate challenge regarding the Talmud!??!???

I also can't prove that you shouldn't quote a scripture verse when I ask "Why title a thread about the Talmud, yet there is no discussion what-so-ever in the thread regarding the subject in the title?"
-That requires logic. Something you seem to be failing at right now.

I am confused, since this appears that Michael started this thread why you seem to take offense that it is your's???:confused:

Michael was this taken from another thread? Or did you mean to title your thread 'Is Jesus in the Tenach'?

[simchat_torah]

He didn't exactly start this thread Lulav. His first post was actually a post in my formal debate thread. Since it had nothing to do with the Talmud, I requested to the moderators that it be removed. They gave MTAA the option to start a new thread with the post that was being removed. He again decided to put in the title "Talmud" for this new thread.

Why? I have no idea, it doesn't have anything to do with Jesus being in the Talmud.

And by the way, I'm not offended, just pointing out the obivious... why is this thread titled "Jesus in the Talmud" if the Talmud isn't even discussed anywhere in the thread?

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

1223

[simchat_torah]

I presume that the Tenach does not have Yeshua in it.LOL. I'll give you a hint. You quoted from it earlier, claiming that Jesus' true name was revealed in the Tenach.


Give up?

Ok, Tenach is the Hebrew acronym for "Old Testament".

Torah
Neviim
Ketuvim

= Tenach


Jews don't call it the "old" testament. The call it the Tenach.

[HaNotsri]

Two words: holy crap

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

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[simchat_torah]

lol, I think he meant it opposite of you...


but maybe if you use a larger font, you might win this debate!

[Lulav]

He didn't exactly start this thread Lulav. His first post was actually a post in my formal debate thread. Since it had nothing to do with the Talmud, I requested to the moderators that it be removed. They gave MTAA the option to start a new thread with the post that was being removed. He again decided to put in the title "Talmud" for this new thread.

Why? I have no idea, it doesn't have anything to do with Jesus being in the Talmud.

And by the way, I'm not offended, just pointing out the obivious... why is this thread titled "Jesus in the Talmud" if the Talmud isn't even discussed anywhere in the thread?Gotcha! :thumbsup:

Although, from other forums I've been on if a post is separated out it retains the name of the original unless the mod changes it, I don't think the poster can do that, but maybe here is different? :)

[simchat_torah]

I don't think the poster can do that, but maybe here is different? :)The name of the thread title did in fact change. Take note that my thread starts with "Formal Debate Challenge:" where as here, he simply changed it to "Does Jesus Appear in the Talmud?" So to answer your question in short: Yes, he chose the title of this thread.

[torahgrandma]

I skimmed it-I don't see how it relates to
the spelling of Yehoshua though...
I also don't see any historical evidence
that the name "Yeshua" for Jesus is
anything other than a recent invention.

The Greek name Iesous when introverting to Hebrew becomes Yeshua.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

The English name Joshua is the same as the Hebrew name Yahshua. Yeshua is the Yiddish version of Yahshua.

[GerTzedek]

MTAA:

if you do 123 123 one more time, you are permanently going on iggy.

[GerTzedek]

Yeshua was our guest speaker at shul on Shabbat. I'm not kidding! A rabbi came to speak, and his Hebrew name given at his bris was actually Yeshua! What kind of Orthodox Jewish mother names her kid Yeshua? What a crack up.

He's the new President of the David Stern Messianic Jewish Center for Life and Learning which will be using the facilities at Ahavat Zion.

[simchat_torah]

Yeshua is the Yiddish version of Yahshua.Actually, its Aramaic.... not Yiddish.

Oh, and you've been forgetting your "h" on the end of the name Yahshuah, remember? ;)

Trust me, I know how hard it is to keep it all straight in the Sacred Name movement... so many secret names to keep track of.

[simchat_torah]

What kind of Orthodox Jewish mother names her kid Yeshua? What a crack up.
The word Yeshua is used in many Jewish/Hebrew prayers in the siddur during Shabbat. Yeshua is generally NOT associated with "Jesus". In fact, most Jews probably don't even bat an eye at the word Yeshua.

[torahgrandma]

The English name Joshua is the same as the Hebrew name Yahshua. Yeshua is the Yiddish version of Yahshua.

The English name Joshua comes from the Hebrew Yehoshua. Both Yehoshua and Yeshua are translated into the Greek as Iesous in the Septuagint.Yoshke is the yiddish version used for Jesus, but it is actually the name of Joseph. Yahshua is not Hebrew, and was created in the minds of sacred name "scholars'.

[TheRabbi]

Torah Grandma,
Why did you choose those particular New Testament verses for your signature line? I'm just curious.

Has anyone else here even caught on to what they say?

[Talmidah]

Torah Grandma,
Why did you choose those particular New Testament verses for your signature line? I'm just curious.

Has anyone else here even caught on to what they say?
I don't think anyone would be surprised coming from TorahGrandma. She's pretty much said the same outright before, so slipping in those digs in Hebrew in a signature is no shock.

[muffler dragon]

Torah Grandma,
Why did you choose those particular New Testament verses for your signature line? I'm just curious.

Has anyone else here even caught on to what they say?

I don't think anyone would be surprised coming from TorahGrandma. She's pretty much said the same outright before, so slipping in those digs in Hebrew in a signature is no shock.

Anyone care to offer a translation?

[Talmidah]

Anyone care to offer a translation?
For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

[simchat_torah]

He means: antimissionaries.

Like the Rabbi, Talmidah, MD, Chazzak, and myself.

[muffler dragon]

He means: antimissionaries.

Like the Rabbi, Talmidah, MD, Chazzak, and myself.

Let's see how well I fit. :D

For of this sort are those who creep into households

Actually, for being pigeon-toed, I'm not all that quiet.

and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins,

The majority of the women I know are intelligent and independent women.

led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


'Tis a shame. One would have thought that all that time in Christianity would have afforded more opportunities for this. :P

[simchat_torah]

Let's see how well I fit. :Dlol, I don't think any of us fall under that category, no matter what colors Higher Truth wants to paint us.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Please delete this thread. Michael.