Let's Discuss Eschatology

[Joykins]

THE END IS NEAR!

With the recent popularity of the _Left Behind_ books, we know a lot of folks are very interested in eschatology.

What's your take on the End Times? Is Jesus coming back any second now? Pre-trib or post-trib rapture? What are your insights into the book of Revelation?

What does this means in terms of living a Christian life, today?

[Izdaari]

I lean toward the pre-trib view, but I'm really not certain. What I am sure of is that God will bring us home in His own time, according to His will, regardless of our theories about it. We just need to trust Him, not to believe in the correct theory about it. The only reason we need to study this at all is so that however it does happen, we'll know what's going on when it does.

I guess you could say I'm a pan-millenialist... just trust God, it'll pan out. ;)

[MrJim]

I tend toward amil with a touch of preterist, but I've not really given it much attention :sorry:

[Rochir]

Ok, End Times ...

in about 5 billion years (or less), when the sun stops burning! :)

(Dang scientist here;))

[GreenMunchkin]

Excited pre-tribber :)

[Criada]

Dunno :scratch:

And - to be honest - I've read the ending - don't much care how we get there! :)
We'll be with God, and it will be awesome. What happens in between is just detail.

[Joykins]

I tend toward amil with a touch of preterist, but I've not really given it much attention :sorry:

Same here--except I probably give it too much attention. Too much post-apocalyptic SF has rotted my brains ^_^

[progressivegal]

Ok, End Times ...

in about 5 billion years (or less), when the sun stops burning! :)

(Dang scientist here;))
That was my Dad's answer as a kid when I asked him when the word would end.
I love my dad.

[edb19]

Amill

We've been in the end times since Christ's ascension and will be until His return (which no one will mistake for something else). The old "already and not yet."

[MrJim]

Too much post-apocalyptic SF has rotted my brains ^_^

you too eh?:thumbsup:

[Izdaari]

you too eh?:thumbsup:
And me too! I love that stuff. :cool:

[Athene]

Don't know don't care.

[DailyBlessings]

Amillenial here. It frankly shocks me how "rapture" theology somehow became the conservative standard. It's not a very conservative interpretation of the Bible at all.

[Freedom&Light]

Amill

We've been in the end times since Christ's ascension and will be until His return (which no one will mistake for something else). The old "already and not yet."

:thumbsup: :amen:

[Rhamiel]

Amillennial with post trib rapture, i guess, I do not think about it a lot, I mean it could happen any time but then agian I could die at any time too,
I was talking to a friend about this, if I heard reports of people rissing from the dead, and that was all I heard I would think zombi attack first and then maybe second comeing of Christ

[Dies3l]

"The end" will come whenever and however God wills it. I think that's all that we really need to know and all that the Bible tells us about it.

[Catherineanne]

Ok, End Times ...

in about 5 billion years (or less), when the sun stops burning! :)

(Dang scientist here;))

Oh no, I haven't even started to pack. :eek:

[Catherineanne]

"The end" will come whenever and however God wills it. I think that's all that we really need to know and all that the Bible tells us about it.

It says a little more. It says none of us will know the time.

Which means it is pretty well pointless to conjecture. Unless you happen to want to make millions by scaremongering the more gullible of our brothers and sisters by selling them fantasy books and films.

[Athene]

It says a little more. It says none of us will know the time.

Which means it is pretty well pointless to conjecture. Unless you happen to want to make millions by scaremongering the more gullible of our brothers and sisters by selling them fantasy books and films.

Hmmm millions did you say . . . . .

[chaoschristian]

Unless you happen to want to make millions by scaremongering the more gullible of our brothers and sisters by selling them fantasy books and films.

L. Ron Hubbard's on the phone. He's calling from the bank.

[chaoschristian]

THE END IS NEAR!

With the recent popularity of the _Left Behind_ books, we know a lot of folks are very interested in eschatology.

What's your take on the End Times? Is Jesus coming back any second now? Pre-trib or post-trib rapture? What are your insights into the book of Revelation?

What does this means in terms of living a Christian life, today?

I'm more or less a preterist in the framework of process theology.

The Kingdom is announced and is now and not yet. We are called into our citizenship here and now. That, I believe, is plainly clear. We are to live each day as if it's our last opportunity to serve the Kingdomw.

What comes after that, and what that looks like, is speculation.

As a middle-class, white, suburban male Christian, I acknowledge that the full import and beauty of John's Revelation is completely beyond my current ability to comprehend and appreciate.

[Melethiel]

Amill (realized millenium) with a touch of preterism.

[Joykins]

I grew up seeing Revelation more or less as a horror novel. It was only when I was older I understood the beauty in it as well.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

I am an amillenialist and also don't believe in pre or post trib rapture because that belief has only been around since the 1800's. Rapture to me is at the very last moment when Jesus takes us home.

[Aquamarine81]

I don't really know how or when the world will end. I've read all the Left Behind books, and used to believe in a pre-trib rapture, but now I think the "rapture" is nothing more than a fairy tale.
The world will end when God is ready for it to, and not a moment before.

[PaladinGirl]

I'm a pre-tribulationist. I believe that Jesus could come back at any moment but then again he may wait another 1,000 years or so.

[RobNJ]

Amillennial, of course!:wave:

[meh]

Not sure. I lean towards pre-trib. I think it's a fun topic to discuss and read about it and wonder about, but really, just......Maranatha :) I don't care how it occurs. I just await eagerly.:prayer:

[Catherineanne]

L. Ron Hubbard's on the phone. He's calling from the bank.

Excellent. Tell him that man cannot serve two masters; God and mammon.

Personally, I would love to have a try, but sadly it is not my calling to be saintly and rich. :holy:

^_^ ^_^ ^_^

[Catherineanne]

Hmmm millions did you say . . . . .

Do you need an agent? :cool:

[Jim47]

You can look at my faith icon and see what I am, but my question is...

what part of the predictions described in Revelation (other then the beast stuff) have not already come to pass?

[Catherineanne]

You can look at my faith icon and see what I am, but my question is...

what part of the predictions described in Revelation (other then the beast stuff) have not already come to pass?

I think the problem comes when regarding it as prophecy at all. Revelation is apocalyptic, not predictive. Daniel, rather than Nostradamus.

[Maranatha27]

I think the problem comes when regarding it as prophecy at all. Revelation is apocalyptic, not predictive. Daniel, rather than Nostradamus.
The most important point on this topic is how you interpit scripture. People that spiritualize scripture tend to come out with an Amil view. An then you have the historical/grammatical literal view. The Bible actually means what it says given it is in context. Jesus said i am the door...obv. he wasnt a door but expresses a greater truth. If the plain sense make sense dont change it or you get nonsense.

[Joykins]

Everyone interprets Revelation metaphorically. This is a situation where the "plain sense" people generally have a stranger take on it than the metaphorical people.

[Maranatha27]

Now that said I am very excited about the times we are living in. Israel has become a nation again, God said he would not let it get destoyed, the world says there going to destroy it. Russia And Iran are becoming close just as predicted by the Holy Spirit in Ezekiel in chapters 38,39. The Revived Roman Empire mentioned by Daniel, has its foundation set. Apostasy is growing in the church. Weather/Earthquakes are increasing in frequency and strength. An explosion of cults,false christ,knowledge,communication,travel,populaton
I will give scripture if wanted
Christ will reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years just as Gabriel told the mother of his humanity

[Catherineanne]

Weather/Earthquakes are increasing in frequency and strength.

More frequent weather?

That's a clever trick. ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

I will give scripture if wanted

Thanks muchly, but Scripture we all have. And gratuitous interpretation we do not need.

[Maranatha27]

Everyone interprets Revelation metaphorically. This is a situation where the "plain sense" people generally have a stranger take on it than the metaphorical people.
Lol. I tried to give you an example but ill take one from revelation if you wish... The women of Revelation chapter 12 is Israel. Look at this chapter and the description of the woman, then go back to the Genesis and compare it to Josephs dream. This is an example, im willing to take another one...This book is very understandable, you just have to study and learn the Word. Many good expositors out there.

[Catherineanne]

The women of Revelation chapter 12 is Israel.

Says who exactly?

[Maranatha27]

More frequent weather?

That's a clever trick. ^_^ ^_^ ^_^



Thanks muchly, but Scripture we all have. And gratuitous interpretation we do not need.
why dont you post something with substance...lol nothing to offer?

[Catherineanne]

why dont you post something with substance...lol nothing to offer?

I will when you do. Your suggestions about the meaning of Revelation are like candyfloss.

[Maranatha27]

I will when you do. Your suggestions about the meaning of Revelation are like candyfloss.
Dear this is a prophesy thread, interpitation is critical. The Women is Israel. Israel is the nation that Christ came from. Many times in scripture God calls Israel His bride. Please look up Josephs dream that describes this women exactly. Not me but look in scripture. Its in Genesis. Its NOT MARY

[Criada]

The message of Revelation is that Jesus will return in victory, and we will be with Him for eternity.
The rest is detail - and whilst it is interesting, I am not sure that we will ever fully understand it until we can look back on it.

So - i'll discuss this one with you in heaven - in the meantime, I'll just try to ensure that I am ready when He comes! :)

[Joykins]

A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

This sounds like the nativity story, at least it resonates with it. The birth, the slaughter of the innocents, the flight into Egypt.

[Maranatha27]

The message of Revelation is that Jesus will return in victory, and we will be with Him for eternity.
The rest is detail - and whilst it is interesting, I am not sure that we will ever fully understand it until we can look back on it.

So - i'll discuss this one with you in heaven - in the meantime, I'll just try to ensure that I am ready when He comes! :)
I agree with you that the most important things are.The virgin birth of Christ, The atoning Death of Christ, The bodily resurection of Christ, 2nd comming of Christ. i missed one but..this is a Prophesy thread lol.

[Maranatha27]

Sorry i just cut and pasted this from another post i made.

Daniels 70 week prophecy is a clasic. In Daniel chapter 9 the Holy Spirit give a bombshell. Daniel lays out a prophesy that he says will last 70 heptads.(70 7s of year) This is a period of 490 years. He states that the 70 heptads will begin with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. This is starts when Cyrus gives the decree for the Jew to return lead by Zurubabel and Jeshua. Daniel said that after 69 heptad the messiah will be cut off for the sins of the people. 483 years. Now there is a perenthesis where there is still seven years unfullfilled. Now you have to remember this is Gods dealing with Israel. This seven years can be found in the book of revelation. Church is raptured and now God is back to dealing with Israel.. as well as the rest of the world. If you noticed that most of end time prophesy deals with Israel. Sorry I really couldn't do this justice, there are so many intricacies and i dont have a Bible handy. All i can say is check this one in his story and learn it for yourself and youll be aw struck for months
Maranatha

[Maranatha27]

Cut and paste again. But it is in the subject of eschatology.......What do you think?

Daniel chapter 2 Nebawhateva has a dream and his dream is of a statue of a man with with a gold head, chest and arms of silver, stomach and thighs of brass, two legs of iron and feet and toes of iron mixed with clay. Now this relates to rulers that will have dominion over Israel. Assyria and Egypt being in the past at this point. The Holy Spirit lays out the rest of Israel rulers. Babylon as the head of Gold. Daiel says nebawhatever you are the head of gold. But the chest and arms are medio-persia and they will over take you. In turn he built a statue all out of gold and made the people worship it. Next he said the stomach and thighs of brass will over take medio-persia with exteme quickness.. i think he likens them (Grece) to a lepord with eagles wings.. dont hold me to that... no Bible handy. Next the two legs of iron Rome would over take them. They split in two didnt they? Finally Revived Rome are the feet of Iron<rome> and clay. This we see today with the formation of the EC First belgium, netherlands and luxemburg came together, then Italy Ireland and france....Not sure if 5, and 6 are right but on March 25, 1957 They signed the treaty of ROME and the thing has snowballed since. Now we just need to sign that 7 year peace contract w/ israel. . sorry for my spelling Maranatha

[Catherineanne]

Dear this is a prophesy thread, interpitation is critical. The Women is Israel. Israel is the nation that Christ came from. Many times in scripture God calls Israel His bride. Please look up Josephs dream that describes this women exactly. Not me but look in scripture. Its in Genesis. Its NOT MARY

You are correct in saying that the appropriate interpretation of Revelation is important. However, you are not correct in assuming that your version must necessarily be the right one, nor in assuming that my opinion is based on not studying Scripture enough, and that merely by looking in Scripture I will necessarily agree with you.

I have spent much of my life doing little other than looking in Scripture, and the more I look, the more I find to substantiate the view that the writer of Revelation was writing to his own time, and to his peers, not to us. There are messages we can learn from what he says, but we cannot use Revelation as an almanack.

Quite simply, the very fact of Revelation being so oblique, so veiled, confirms the view that the writer was afraid of the Romans decoding it. If it referred to our time, it could have been written without any coding whatever, as no Roman emperor would have had any argument with its contents.

Ergo, in my view, and not just mine, Revelation is a work of Christian apocalyptic and of sedition aimed at the Roman empire. It is not Harry Potter. It is not Nostradamus. It is not Mother Shipton.

Some Christians take the view that the woman in Revelation is Israel, and pretend that everyone has always thought this. On the contrary, this is a very modern interpretation. It is a very strongly established belief in traditional Christianity, by which I mean the apostolic traditions, that the woman in Revelation is Our Lady, and I am happy with that view. There is plenty in the text to confirm this, which has to be explained away in order to place Israel in her stead. I see no good reason for doing any of this.

[Catherineanne]

Cut and paste again. But it is in the subject of eschatology.......What do you think?

Daniel chapter 2 Nebawhateva has a dream and his dream is of a statue of a man with with a gold head, chest and arms of silver, stomach and thighs of brass, two legs of iron and feet and toes of iron mixed with clay. Now this relates to rulers that will have dominion over Israel. Assyria and Egypt being in the past at this point. The Holy Spirit lays out the rest of Israel rulers. Babylon as the head of Gold. Daiel says nebawhatever you are the head of gold. But the chest and arms are medio-persia and they will over take you. In turn he built a statue all out of gold and made the people worship it. Next he said the stomach and thighs of brass will over take medio-persia with exteme quickness.. i think he likens them (Grece) to a lepord with eagles wings.. dont hold me to that... no Bible handy. Next the two legs of iron Rome would over take them. They split in two didnt they? Finally Revived Rome are the feet of Iron<rome> and clay. This we see today with the formation of the EC First belgium, netherlands and luxemburg came together, then Italy Ireland and france....Not sure if 5, and 6 are right but on March 25, 1957 They signed the treaty of ROME and the thing has snowballed since. Now we just need to sign that 7 year peace contract w/ israel. . sorry for my spelling Maranatha

What do I think? I think this kind of attempt to use Scripture as prophecy for our day is contrived, artificial and mischievous.

It means that we miss what Scripture actually is, and try to make it into some kind of necromancy tool, like a ouiji board or tarot set. And in case you have not noticed, necromancy is forbidden in Scripture.

[Catherineanne]

All i can say is check this one in his story and learn it for yourself and youll be aw struck for months


I seriously doubt if I will be awestruck by any of your fanciful assertions. To me they are without substance, and without meaning.

Other Christians are welcome to believe this stuff if they like. But just be aware that many other Christians think such attempts to find the future meaningless. God made us in such a way that we cannot see our own future, nor that of the world. Having made us this way, why would he then give us the means to see that which he mercifully withholds from us?

The Bible says that no man knoweth the hour at which the son of man will return. As someone has already said, all we need to do is to ensure we are ready, and then wait, as long as it takes. Today, tomorrow, or 12,000 years from now; it will happen when God is ready, and not a day before.

[Maranatha27]

You are correct in saying that the appropriate interpretation of Revelation is important. However, you are not correct in assuming that your version must necessarily be the right one, nor in assuming that my opinion is based on not studying Scripture enough, and that merely by looking in Scripture I will necessarily agree with you.

I have spent much of my life doing little other than looking in Scripture, and the more I look, the more I find to substantiate the view that the writer of Revelation was writing to his own time, and to his peers, not to us. There are messages we can learn from what he says, but we cannot use Revelation as an almanack.

Quite simply, the very fact of Revelation being so oblique, so veiled, confirms the view that the writer was afraid of the Romans decoding it. If it referred to our time, it could have been written without any coding whatever, as no Roman emperor would have had any argument with its contents.

Ergo, in my view, and not just mine, Revelation is a work of Christian apocalyptic and of sedition aimed at the Roman empire. It is not Harry Potter. It is not Nostradamus. It is not Mother Shipton.

Some Christians take the view that the woman in Revelation is Israel, and pretend that everyone has always thought this. On the contrary, this is a very modern interpretation. It is a very strongly established belief in traditional Christianity, by which I mean the apostolic traditions, that the woman in Revelation is Our Lady, and I am happy with that view. There is plenty in the text to confirm this, which has to be explained away in order to place Israel in her stead. I see no good reason for doing any of this.
These are secondary issues when it comes to the body of Christ, Im in the same body you are. You are intitled to your opinion, because there are aruguments for both sides. Im intrested in your opinion. Do you believe that the establishment of the Nation of Israel was important? Is God done with Israel or has the body of Christ tanken there place? Again arguments for both sides, Im just trying to did deeper into your position. Same body :)

[Joykins]

Take the QUIZ!

Quiz results:
What's your eschatology? You scored as a Preterist You take the historical setting of the Bible very seriously, and believe that passages like Daniel 7 and Mark 13 were speaking about their own day rather than the End of Time, though there will still be a time when Jesus is 'unveiled' and there will be final judgement and new creation. Preterist
70% Amillenialist 70%
Moltmannian Eschatology 60%
Left Behind 35%
Dispensationalist 30%
Premillenialist 30%
Postmillenialist 25%


http://quizfarm.com/run.php/Quiz?quiz_id=7093

[stumpjumper]

Anyone here read In God's Time by Craig Hill?

[progressivegal]

Moltmannian Eschatology 100% Amillenialist 100% Preterist 80% Postmillenialist 20% Dispensationalist 20% Premillenialist 0% Left Behind 0%

[MrJim]

What's your eschatology?
You scored as a Amillenialist
Amillenialism believes that the 1000 year reign is not literal but figurative, and that Christ began to reign at his ascension. People take some prophetic scripture far too literally in your view.
Amillenialist 75%
Premillenialist 65%
Preterist 55%
Postmillenialist 45%
Moltmannian Eschatology 40%
Left Behind 10%
Dispensationalist 5%

[stumpjumper]

What's your eschatology? You scored as a Moltmannian Eschatology Jürgen Moltmann is one of the key eschatological thinkers of the 20th Century. Eschatology is not only about heaven and hell, but God's plan to make all things new. This should spur us on to political and social action in the present. Moltmannian Eschatology
75% Amillenialist
75% Preterist
45% Postmillenialist
35% Left Behind
25% Dispensationalist
0% Premillenialist
0%

[MrJim]

What's your eschatology? You scored as a Moltmannian Eschatology Jürgen Moltmann is one of the key eschatological thinkers of the 20th Century. Eschatology is not only about heaven and hell, but God's plan to make all things new. This should spur us on to political and social action in the present. Moltmannian Eschatology
75% Amillenialist
75% Preterist
45% Postmillenialist
35% Left Behind
25% Dispensationalist
0% Premillenialist
0%

ah, so that's what the moltmann eschatology thing is all about...figured the def would appear shortly ;)

[stumpjumper]

Hah.

[DailyBlessings]

95% Moltmannian Amillelinialist, 5% Left Behind

Not even remotely surprising :) I'm taking a class in January about eschatology in Lutheran tradition, that should be pretty fun.

[Melethiel]

You scored as a Amillenialist Amillenialism believes that the 1000 year reign is not literal but figurative, and that Christ began to reign at his ascension. People take some prophetic scripture far too literally in your view. Amillenialist
100%
Moltmannian Eschatology 75%
Preterist 70%
Premillenialist 35%
Postmillenialist 30%
Dispensationalist 0%
Left Behind 0%

Big surprise.

[Criada]

You scored as a Moltmannian Eschatology
Jürgen Moltmann is one of the key eschatological thinkers of the 20th Century. Eschatology is not only about heaven and hell, but God's plan to make all things new. This should spur us on to political and social action in the present.
Moltmannian Eschatology
75%
Amillenialist
60%
Premillenialist
50%
Dispensationalist
30%
Preterist
25%
Left Behind
25%
Postmillenialist
15%


Think that translates as confused!!

[Joykins]

Moltmann's eschatology does sound interesting and very Lutheran...

[karen freeinchristman]

Amillenialist
95%
Moltmannian Eschatology
60%
Preterist
45%
Postmillenialist
45%
Premillenialist
40%
Dispensationalist
25%
Left Behind
25%


I think that is pretty accurate!