The millenium

[PROPHECYKID]

Do Fundamentalists believe that Christ will rule over the earth for 1 thousand years?? If so why?

[sageoffools]

Revelation 20:1-6 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

[PROPHECYKID]

Christ will be with his saints in heaven during the 1000 years. Not ruling the earth. There will be no alive people to rule

[sageoffools]

Revelation 20:7-9 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

[BigNorsk]

There isn't one answer to the original question. When fundamentalism started the majority of fundamentalists would have had a Amillenial end times viewpoint.

At this time, probably the majority would be dispensational with a premill pretrib position. Probably due to the influences of some things like the Scofield Bible.

Marv

[sageoffools]

I don't think I've ever actually read a Scofield Bible. :)

[DeaconDean]

Christ will be with his saints in heaven during the 1000 years. Not ruling the earth. There will be no alive people to rule

Could you please show me where in the scriptures it says that?

Or perhaps could it be that you hold to the preterist viewpoint?

Or perhaps is it because William Miller left such a bad taste in everybodies mouth with what became known as The Great Disappointment that you oppose millennialism?

God Bless

Till all are one.

[DeaconDean]

There isn't one answer to the original question. When fundamentalism started the majority of fundamentalists would have had a Amillenial end times viewpoint.

At this time, probably the majority would be dispensational with a premill pretrib position. Probably due to the influences of some things like the Scofield Bible.

Marv

I have a Scofield KJV Reference Bible, I use it all the time, what's wrong with it?

And for your info, Scofield didn't release his Study Bible until sometime in the early 1900's, 1909 to be exact. John Nelson Darby had already started preaching millennialism by 1830.

So what's your point?

You condemning the Scofield KJV Bible because Scofield wrote it, or because he held pre-mill line of thought, or what?

While it is true that C.I. Scofield held to "Dispensationalism," are we not smart enough to know how to "pick the meat from the bones" so to speak?

So what is your problem with the Scofield Reference Bible?

God Bless

Till all are one.

[Vambram]

My very first reference study Bible was the Old Scofield Reference Bible, using the KJV. A few years ago, after that Bible was falling apart due to its age and worn down pages and binding, I purchased a Scolfiend Reference Bible which uses the NKJV. Today, even still, the Scofield Reference Bible remains my most favorite study Bible.

:):):)

[BigNorsk]

I have a Scofield KJV Reference Bible, I use it all the time, what's wrong with it?

And for your info, Scofield didn't release his Study Bible until sometime in the early 1900's, 1909 to be exact. John Nelson Darby had already started preaching millennialism by 1830.

So what's your point?

You condemning the Scofield KJV Bible because Scofield wrote it, or because he held pre-mill line of thought, or what?

While it is true that C.I. Scofield held to "Dispensationalism," are we not smart enough to know how to "pick the meat from the bones" so to speak?

So what is your problem with the Scofield Reference Bible?

God Bless

Till all are one.

I was simply making a statement of historical facts.

Since you seemed to miss it, the point was that there is not just one end times viewpoint among those who would be considered fundamentalist. The dominant end times viewpoint has changed from the start of fundamentalism and one of the strong influences on that was the Scofield Bible.

Marv

[DeaconDean]

I was simply making a statement of historical facts.

Since you seemed to miss it, the point was that there is not just one end times viewpoint among those who would be considered fundamentalist. The dominant end times viewpoint has changed from the start of fundamentalism and one of the strong influences on that was the Scofield Bible.

Marv

No, you are wrong, you attribute millennialism to Scolfield and I showed that Darby was preaching before Scofield, even before William Miller.

I just suggest you get your facts straight.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[DeaconDean]

And a little FYI for ya brother, millennialism has roots deeper than the 1900's.

Millennialism as it is known now, has been known in the distant past as Chiliasm. And Chiliasm has been around since the early days of Babylon.

"Today, whenever the word millennialism is used, it usually refers to the various doctrines of premillennialism, and more specifically to Dispensational Premillennialism. This thousand years, or chiliad, is then applied to the period of time mentioned in Rev. 20:1-7. Specifically it is used by premillennialist to refer to the millennial reign of Christ upon the earth after the Rapture of the saints. The word millennial does not appear in the scriptures, it is of Latin origin. The word found in Rev. 20:1-7 is from "chilioi," which means "a thousand." The concept of millennialism was originally known as Chiliasm, and when you search historical records, you will find the ancients speaking of the "chiliad" or the time mentioned in Rev. 20:1-7. The word for thousand appears in these verses six times, and from these verses whole systems of doctrines have arisen, which are known as Millennialism.

Pre-Christian Influences

Chiliasm is not unique with the Christian religion. Its roots can be found in most religions throughout the world. A key element which exists in most religions is that there will be a time when evil will be destroyed by the powers of good followed by a long period of peace. Historically, then, the word Chiliasm has taken on the added meaning of a time of universal peace.
According to Schaff, the belief of a period of a thousand years of peace from evil powers had its origin with the religion of Zoroastrianism. This religion began prior to the Babylonian captivity and was in vogue during the time of the captivity. Zoroastrians believe that they were the ones who first taught the concept of one all powerful god, and the coming of a redeemer to save the world from the evil powers that pervade upon the earth. The Apocryphal Books of the Old Testament are filled with speculations of a time of universal peace, which would be ruled by the people of God. Only in these books do we find the doctrine of Chiliasm among God's people. The Old Testament scriptures do not teach such a doctrine. If we consider the period in which these books were written, and the uninspired nature of these books, then this doctrine can be put into its proper place. It was a period of religious turmoil and persecutions by the enemies of God's people. The influence of Zoroastrian chiliasm was evident, thus the climate was ripe for the hope that God would intervene, destroying the enemy, and ushering in a period of universal peace."

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/9170/YORK1.HTM

So before you start attributing this to Scofield, I suggest you get your facts straight.

And to add further weight, there is a controversy on whether or not the Council of Ephesus in AD 431 actually condemned Chiliasm as heresy.

So my friend, you need to look and research this before you condemn Scofield. This was definately taught looooooooooooooooooooog before Darby, Miller, or even Scofield.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[BigNorsk]

Thanks for the link, it supports what I said about history.

It says:

This premise applies to the various doctrines of millennialism. During our own generation the doctrine of Dispensational Premillennialism has become the norm for many charismatic religious groups and many major fundamental denominational churches. The more vocal and popular preachers of these groups have popularized their doctrine to the point that it seems as if every religious body that believes in Christ accepts a form of millennialism. Those who do not, are considered to be in the minority. Yet, historically, this has not been the situation.....

and
The rapid growth of Dispensationalism in the United States can be attributed to two books: Jesus Is Coming by W. E. Blackstone, and the Scofield Reference Bible. Blackstone's book was published in 1878. Many believe that the influence of Darby can be seen throughout this book. However, the greatest impact comes from Scofield's work - The Scofield Reference Bible, which was first published in 1909 and revised in 1917. A modern revision of this Bible was completed in 1967. Allis, referring to this Bible, says: "This is the Bible of Dispensationalist, and has probably done as much to popularize the prophetic teachings of Darby and the Brethren as all other agencies put together."12 Today the books written by Hal Lindsey and John Walvoord typify the present views of Dispensational Premillennialism.

I'm not sure that I would really agree with the article though in putting millenialism outside the Christian faith.

Marv

[DeaconDean]

Here again, I disagree with you, you said:

the majority would be dispensational with a premill pretrib position. Probably due to the influences of some things like the Scofield Bible.


I was pointing out, that millennialism, Chiliasm, was taught long before Scofield. I did admit Scofield taught and espoused Dispensationalism. But you attribute both to Scofield, or that with Scofield's Bible, this became popular. And history shows, millennialism, Chiliasm, was taught long before the early 1900's.

Chiliasm (the millenial reign of Christ) can be traced back:

" D. T. Taylor suggests that Pope Damasus "formally denounced chiliasm" at Rome in A.D. 373, he refers to no condemnation by the third ecumenical council...This teaching [of Augustine] soon became accepted as orthodoxy and has in general been so regarded in both Catholic and Protestant Churches ever since the Council of Ephesus in 431 condemned belief in a literal, future millennium as superstition. . . . [and] the Council of Ephesus in 431 accepted amillennialism as orthodox eschatological teaching."

The Phantom Heresy, Did the Council of Ephesus (431) Condemn Chiliasm. Trinity Journal, Spring 2003, By: Michael J. Svigel

Yes, amil beliefs were dominate for a while, but before there was amil, there was Chiliasm, the belief in the millennial reign of Christ. And it wasn't Scofield who taught it.

“What is the origin of this strange doctrine?” you ask. The careful study of church history will furnish us with the conclusive answer. Premillennialism is a descent of ancient Judaism. There is a striking resemblance between the off-spring and the parent. The old Jewish conceptions of an external Messianic kingdom have found their perfect embodiment in the Chiliastic theory of the millennium. Premillennialism is a relic of Judaism. Dr. Hodge says of this, “It is a Jewish doctrine. The principles adopted by its advocates in the interpretation of prophecy are the same as have been adopted by the Jews in the time of Christ; and have led substantially to the same conclusions. The Jews expected that when the Messiah came He would establish a glorious earthly kingdom at Jerusalem; that those who had died in the faith should be raised from the dead to share the Messianic reign; that all nations and peoples on the face of the earth should be subject to them; and that any nation that would not serve them should be destroyed. All the riches and honors of the world were to be at their disposal. The event destroyed these expectations; and the principles of prophetic interpretation on which these expectations were founded were proved to be incorrect,” Hodge Systematic Theology - Eschatology.

The History of Chiliasm, William Masselink

Scofield may have revived a belief in millennialism in his espousing of Dispensationalism (Dispensational Millennialism), but he did not start it. That (Millennialism) belongs to history long past.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[R.J.S]

Do Fundamentalists believe that Christ will rule over the earth for 1 thousand years?? If so why?

Some do and some do not. I am of the latter. :)