So what exactly is a Moderate Christian anyway?

[Izdaari]

This is something we, the folks who are going to make this our home, probably should talk about.

Is it just being between conservative and liberal?

Are there key principles that differentiate us from liberals and conservatives?

I could describe my own theology in Cuisinart terms: put essences of Alan Watts, C.S. Lewis, Joyce Meyer and Rob Bell in a blender, and hit frappe. The result would be at least close. :D

Is it more a procedural thing, i.e. we believe more like the conservatives, but are tolerant like the liberals? That describes me to some extent.

[Criada]

Is it more a procedural thing, i.e. we believe more like the conservatives, but are tolerant like the liberals? That describes me to some extent.

That about sums it up for me.
Though - there are things I am less than conservative on, such as women in leadership...

I suppose tolerance is the key issue - being able to discuss and disagree whilst still loving one another.

[NewGuy101]

Just be careful of respecting us conservatives. You don't want to make us seem intolerant coz were not.

:(

[Criada]

Just be careful of respecting us conservatives. You don't want to make us seem intolerant coz were not.

:(
:hug:
Didn't mean to imply that in any way!!

[Willtor]

For myself, I don't like the thought of being between the Liberals and the Conservatives. I don't think it adequately describes my view or distinguishes them from other people who don't fit into those categories. The first thing I would argue is in not describing Christianity in terms of these two camps - Liberal and Conservative - and then identifying oneself with respect to them.

I don't want to be too pejorative towards my more Liberal and Conservative brethren, so as an analogy that works on one level (and one level only) saying that a Moderate is between Liberalism and Conservatism seems to me quite like saying that Trinitarianism is between Sabellianism and Arianism. Again, not that Liberals and Conservatives are basically Sabellians and Arians but you get the idea: I wouldn't define my positions in terms of what someone else thinks.

[chaoschristian]

I think 'moderate' is a term of convenience. One that's almost necessary in the framework of liberal-conservative.

I think of a moderate as one who not only rejects the extremes (because they both tend to meet in the same place) but also rejects the framework itself.

A moderate is someone who reads the scripts of the liberal and the conservative and whips out the red pen.

[higgs2]

I don't think it's *between* "liberal" and "conservative" as if there were a scale measuring those things. For me, not identifying as either one is what makes one moderate. Not using those labels to define everything.

[higgs2]

I think 'moderate' is a term of convenience. One that's almost necessary in the framework of liberal-conservative.

I think of a moderate as one who not only rejects the extremes (because they both tend to meet in the same place) but also rejects the framework itself.

A moderate is someone who reads the scripts of the liberal and the conservative and whips out the red pen.

:thumbsup: Yes!!! Well said, much better than I could put it. :bow: :bow: :bow:

[chaoschristian]

For myself, I don't like the thought of being between the Liberals and the Conservatives. I don't think it adequately describes my view or distinguishes them from other people who don't fit into those categories. The first thing I would argue is in not describing Christianity in terms of these two camps - Liberal and Conservative - and then identifying oneself with respect to them.

I don't want to be too pejorative towards my more Liberal and Conservative brethren, so as an analogy that works on one level (and one level only) saying that a Moderate is between Liberalism and Conservatism seems to me quite like saying that Trinitarianism is between Sabellianism and Arianism. Again, not that Liberals and Conservatives are basically Sabellians and Arians but you get the idea: I wouldn't define my positions in terms of what someone else thinks.

Yep.

[chaoschristian]

I don't think it's *between* "liberal" and "conservative" as if there were a scale measuring those things. For me, not identifying as either one is what makes one moderate. Not using those labels to define everything.

:thumbsup:

[higgs2]

Just be careful of respecting us conservatives. You don't want to make us seem intolerant coz were not.

:(

I am hoping we don't even refer to "conservatives" (or "liberals") much, but basically reject the labels altogether.

[Izdaari]

For myself, I don't like the thought of being between the Liberals and the Conservatives. I don't think it adequately describes my view or distinguishes them from other people who don't fit into those categories. The first thing I would argue is in not describing Christianity in terms of these two camps - Liberal and Conservative - and then identifying oneself with respect to them.

I don't want to be too pejorative towards my more Liberal and Conservative brethren, so as an analogy that works on one level (and one level only) saying that a Moderate is between Liberalism and Conservatism seems to me quite like saying that Trinitarianism is between Sabellianism and Arianism. Again, not that Liberals and Conservatives are basically Sabellians and Arians but you get the idea: I wouldn't define my positions in terms of what someone else thinks.
Thank you! :amen:

Now we're getting somewhere. :thumbsup:

A moderate is someone who reads the scripts of the liberal and the conservative and whips out the red pen.
Yep, that's me! :D

[Izdaari]

I am hoping we don't even refer to "conservatives" (or "liberals") much, but basically reject the labels altogether.
Yes, I think that's the right way to go about it. :thumbsup:

[chaoschristian]

Started a stub wiki for the forum here. (http://foru.ms/t6336765-wiki-moderate-christians.html#post40204284)

[Freedom&Light]

Is it more a procedural thing, i.e. we believe more like the conservatives, but are tolerant like the liberals? That describes me to some extent.

This would be the closest to describing me, although I don't see the conservatives as intolerant. I think , for me, hanging out with the liberals is more natural because no one has to know the Right Thing. There's no good way to describe what I mean. LOL.

I'm closer to a mixture of Max Lucado, C.S. Lewis, and JRR Tolkein. :D

My views are definintely conservative, but I know that I don't know all the answers, and love discussing how someone reaches the conclusions they come to- without judgment.

[DailyBlessings]

I tend to think of a moderate as someone who is more or less orthodox is basic tenets, but diverse as far as politics and conclusions on specific issues go.

[Criada]

I think being moderate largely relates to how we interact with those who disagree with us.
I am largely conservative in my views, but I don't expect others to agree with me on every detail. And I don't think that my views make me a better or worse Christian.
All of us are right on some things and wrong on others.
And when we get to heaven, we'll probably all be very surprised!

But as long as we are prepared to listen to one another, learn from one another, and love one another, our minor differences really don't matter.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

I am hoping we don't even refer to "conservatives" (or "liberals") much, but basically reject the labels altogether.

:clap: :thumbsup:

[longhair75]

The Liberal verses Conservative argument has done a lot of damage to Christianity as a whole. The last thing we want to do here is to become a battleground for this to continue.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

The Liberal verses Conservative argument has done a lot of damage to Christianity as a whole. The last thing we want to do here is to become a battleground for this to continue.
Indeed.

[Willtor]

I just opened up a thread for doctrines you'd like on the survey (http://foru.ms/showthread.php?p=40209028).

[DailyBlessings]

The Liberal verses Conservative argument has done a lot of damage to Christianity as a whole. The last thing we want to do here is to become a battleground for this to continue.
Amen!

[BelindaP]

I don't think we should even try to define what a moderate is. Instead, I think we should devise a set of behaviors we'd like to observe and let people self-identify as moderates.

For example, a person might be completely right-wing in terms of abortion, but be much more liberal in terms of homosexuality. They would be expected to recognize that in themselves and behave accordingly, not jumping on sombody's case who may not be as conservative wrt abortion.

[GreenMunchkin]

Without wanting to regress the discussion, I think it's possibly a question of having coonservative, or traditional, theological beliefs, but being fairly liberal in approach.

CC has taught me that, apparently, unless you're trying to ram your beliefs down the throats of others, you're a secret liberal mole.

[Joykins]

What makes me think I'm moderate is seeing extremes on both ends and saying "thanks but no thanks."

[GreenMunchkin]

What makes me think I'm moderate is seeing extremes on both ends and saying "thanks but no thanks."The funny thing is I thought conservative *was* the bit in between the two extremes... :scratch:

On the sliding scale of fundamentalist to liberal, conservative seemed to be the middle ground.

[meh]

Moderate is about the best label for myself that I've seen lately. I'm too liberal politically and on social issues to really identify truly as conservative. I'm too conservative on Biblical issues to be liberal in that area. I'm tired of being judged as not good enough for one or the other. I'm in the middle :) I have also tried to be really hard-line and tell people what they believe about X or Y is wrong...but honestly, it's just not my style and I can't do it anymore. I am very much more of a just let people be who they are person, because I myself like to be left alone to be who I am.

So I like the term Moderate. in fact, my profile choice on this forum as been Moderate from the time I signed up.

[CelticGrace]

What makes me think I'm moderate is seeing extremes on both ends and saying "thanks but no thanks."
This is me too

[chaoschristian]

I don't think we should even try to define what a moderate is. Instead, I think we should devise a set of behaviors we'd like to observe and let people self-identify as moderates.

:thumbsup:

[Joykins]

The funny thing is I thought conservative *was* the bit in between the two extremes... :scratch:

On the sliding scale of fundamentalist to liberal, conservative seemed to be the middle ground.

I have always identified as moderate, but it departs in some significant ways with how CF conservative forum defines conservatism, anyway.

[GreenMunchkin]

I have always identified as moderate, but it departs in some significant ways with how CF conservative forum defines conservatism, anyway.The thing I can't quite get to grips with is whether this whole forum somehow artifically engineers these differences. Insofar as, in the real world, you don't ask other Christians whether they're liberal or conservative or moderate or fundamentalist. It doesn't seem to be an issue, in any way. But here, it's literally the issue. It supercedes denominational issues in terms of importance, for sure.

[Joykins]

The thing I can't quite get to grips with is whether this whole forum somehow artifically engineers these differences. Insofar as, in the real world, you don't ask other Christians whether they're liberal or conservative or moderate or fundamentalist. It doesn't seem to be an issue, in any way. But here, it's literally the issue. It supercedes denominational issues in terms of importance, for sure.

Perhaps IRL you don't have to *ask*. You just watch the church split apart (all the Episcopal churches in Fairfax county just pulled out of ECUSA and went to an African diocese due to the homosexuality issue, to point to a recent and local event--and it involved the church which runs the school my nieces attend).

[GreenMunchkin]

Perhaps IRL you don't have to *ask*. You just watch the church split apart (all the Episcopal churches in Fairfax county just pulled out of ECUSA and went to an African diocese due to the homosexuality issue, to point to a recent and local event--and it involved the church which runs the school my nieces attend).:( The body of Christ is very broken and poorly

[Ishida]

Not the "legalistic fundy garbage" nor the "fake Christianity that is just a gateway to agnosticism..."

Where does bible believing, Jesus loving fit?

[GreenMunchkin]

Not the "legalistic fundy garbage" nor the "fake Christianity that is just a gateway to agnosticism..."

Where does bible believing, Jesus loving fit?In the former CC, and hopefully now here :( :hug:

[PaladinGirl]

That about sums it up for me.
Though - there are things I am less than conservative on, such as women in leadership...

I suppose tolerance is the key issue - being able to discuss and disagree whilst still loving one another.
It about sums it up for me too. Except I am slightly more liberal then most conservatives.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

In the former CC, and hopefully now here :( :hug:
I hope so too. :hug:

[MrJim]

A moderate is someone who reads the scripts of the liberal and the conservative and whips out the red pen.

Sounds like a motto to me:thumbsup:

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Sounds like a motto to me:thumbsup:
MrJim! :clap: :clap: :clap: :hug:

[Rochir]

moderates - finding good in every perspective?

[higgs2]

Um, I hope I'm not the only one who wants this forum to be almost completely different from CC. I don't see any comparison actually. :sorry: I don't mean to be contentious, I'm just want to make sure I have the right idea about it.

[BelindaP]

Nope. You're not the only one who feels this way. In fact, I'm thinking about posting a discussion thread that will hopefully go differently than any would in most of the congregational forums.

[Rochir]

Um, I hope I'm not the only one who wants this forum to be almost completely different from CC. I don't see any comparison actually.


Agreed!

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Um, I hope I'm not the only one who wants this forum to be almost completely different from CC. I don't see any comparison actually. :sorry: I don't mean to be contentious, I'm just want to make sure I have the right idea about it.
I would say it needs to be different from both CC and the liberal forum.

[MrJim]

definitions are slippery eels~I would expect that moderate means more than wishy-washy fencesitters ;)

I expect that many of the "heroes" in Christian history were less "radical extremes" than many would expect~and I would expect that here it would be more about what we can do to become better doers and followers of Christ, encouraging, exhorting, and loving one another. There'll be disagreements, but we'd better know how to deal with it better than others or this'll just be another stage on the "Drama~Llama Tour-de-Force".

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

definitions are slippery eels~I would expect that moderate means more than wishy-washy fencesitters ;)

I expect that many of the "heroes" in Christian history were less "radical extremes" than many would expect~and I would expect that here it would be more about what we can do to become better doers and followers of Christ, encouraging, exhorting, and loving one another. There'll be disagreements, but we'd better know how to deal with it better than others or this'll just be another stage on the "Drama~Llama Tour-de-Force".
I agree Jim. :hug:

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Um, I hope I'm not the only one who wants this forum to be almost completely different from CC. I don't see any comparison actually. :sorry: I don't mean to be contentious, I'm just want to make sure I have the right idea about it.
Just to ease your mind a bit...anyone that comes here from CC will agree with you wholeheartedly! ;)

[MrJim]

Just to ease your mind a bit...anyone that comes here from CC will agree with you wholeheartedly! ;)

:amen:

[Criada]

Just to ease your mind a bit...anyone that comes here from CC will agree with you wholeheartedly! ;)
Amen
:)

[GreenMunchkin]

I would say it needs to be different from both CC and the liberal forum.Yeppers :hug:

[MrJim]

I would say it needs to be different from both CC and the liberal forum.

we should have better snacks, though the cookies over at CC were always really good.:yum:

[GreenMunchkin]

we should have better snacks, though the cookies over at CC were always really good.:yum:There was cookies? Or, in real words, biscuits?

[Willtor]

Haha! Biscuits. Haha! Ah, you Britons. Where will your crazy antics lead you next?



;)

[GreenMunchkin]

Haha! Biscuits. Haha! Ah, you Britons. Where will your crazy antics lead you next?



;)Aww, shucks, saw you wrote "Britons" and read it as "Buttons" for a second. I much prefer that.

Say, are you mocking my biscuity Buttonness?

Mostly, though, whaling :)

[Criada]

There was cookies? Or, in real words, biscuits?
Cookies, closets, stickshift...
Can we have a translation thread please! :)

[BelindaP]

cookies = biscuits
closet = place you hang your clothes and put your stuff
stickshift = transmission that you change manually

[Tenebrae]

http://foru.ms/t6343415-dual-membership-with-moderate-forum.html

Glad to know what some people think:doh:

[BelindaP]

It took a little longer than I thought it would. I'm not surprised at who started the poll, though.

[Athene]

Lol, the link you posted is mildly amusing frietag, not the page which is linked to but the link in your post, if you look at the bit after foru.ms (whole load of numbes) it says 'dual members ate forum' . Is that a warning not to allow dual membership. ;)

[Criada]

:(
Have signed out of CC.
:sigh:

[GreenMunchkin]

http://foru.ms/t6343415-dual-membership-with-moderate-forum.html

Glad to know what some people think:doh:Naw, it's fair enough, Frei. Also, Steve is just lovely, and very wonderful. I know he doesn't mean it badly :hug:

[Tenebrae]

Naw, it's fair enough, Frei. Also, Steve is just lovely, and very wonderful. I know he doesn't mean it badly :hug:
I'm done speculating on peoples intentions.

[Criada]

Naw, it's fair enough, Frei. Also, Steve is just lovely, and very wonderful. I know he doesn't mean it badly :hug:
Is still hurtful, though.
Nothing against Steve, I love him - but this does seem a bit... ach, dunno. Just sad.

[Tenebrae]

Lol, the link you posted is mildly amusing frietag, not the page which is linked to but the link in your post, if you look at the bit after foru.ms (whole load of numbes) it says 'dual members ate forum' . Is that a warning not to allow dual membership. ;)
Ok, that whooshing sound you heard was your post going right over my head athene.^_^

Perhaps I'm just being thick, however could you imagine you are talking to an idiot

Scratch that, just got the point of your post. Its midd day, I think I should go back to bed:P

[BelindaP]

After he came over here and talked about how it was a wonderful idea to create this forum, I have a hard time believing his intentions are that benign.

Whatever. If CCC wants to make people choose, then let 'em. This forum is based upon people who might have a moderate belief or two joining. If CCC wants to say you can't have any moderate beliefs, then who am I to complain.

[MrJim]

Is still hurtful, though.
Nothing against Steve, I love him - but this does seem a bit... ach, dunno. Just sad.

:hug: don't sweat it little sister

[GreenMunchkin]

Is still hurtful, though.
Nothing against Steve, I love him - but this does seem a bit... ach, dunno. Just sad.Steve loves you, you know that :hug: He really does, sis :hug:

[Athene]

Ok, that whooshing sound you heard was your post going right over my head athene.^_^

Perhaps I'm just being thick, however could you imagine you are talking to an idiot

Scratch that, just got the point of your post. Its midd day, I think I should go back to bed:P

I just meant the link itself, you know http://foru.ms (numbers), when you put a link in a thread it's automatically truncated o you don't end up with links in your page which are the full width of the page, I just thought the result of the truncation, the words it left behind in the link made an amusing combination.

It's late and I'm on pain killers, humour me.

[Tenebrae]

I just meant the link itself, you know http://foru.ms (numbers), when you put a link in a thread it's automatically truncated o you don't end up with links in your page which are the full width of the page, I just thought the result of the truncation, the words it left behind in the link made an amusing combination.

It's late and I'm on pain killers, humour me.
I got it in the end, it only took me a good couple of minutes staring at it and thinking

Know how you feel, its mid day and I'm thinking of going back to bed

[JimfromOhio]

I am confused.

We have:
Extreme Liberalism
Liberalism
Moderate
Conservative
Legalism
Extreme Legalism

How many levels do we have?

[BelindaP]

As many as people are willing to make forums for. ;)

Welcome, Jim. Thinking of hanging around for a spell?

[JimfromOhio]

As many as people are willing to make forums for. ;)

Welcome, Jim. Thinking of hanging around for a spell?

I still don't know what Moderate Christians stand for? What are the criterias?

[BelindaP]

Basically, if you hold a moderate view on some theological issue or doctrine, you can be a member.

[JimfromOhio]

Depends on the defintion of "moderate view". I just see this we are getting more divided.

This might be a good time just to leave this forum altogether. We are getting more divided than united.

[Willtor]

Yeah, this is basically a forum of self-identification. Eventually we'll have a survey and a breakdown of what various members think, doctrinally, and in practice. But even then the results won't be a basis for membership.

In practice, most people are pretty conservative, theologically (as far as I can tell). There are a few self-professed liberals. And at least one person for whom I have absolutely no idea. But regardless of any of that, whatever you may think, if you tend to identify yourself as a moderate, you are welcome to call youself a moderate here.

[BelindaP]

I don't see the moderate forum as dividing so much. In fact, I think it might be more uniting than people think.

I think it is very likely that people who disagree about a lot of things might find common ground here and a basis to begin communication. Christians typically have a lot more in common than they have different. They just fail to see it a lot of the time.

[Lisa0315]

Is still hurtful, though.
Nothing against Steve, I love him - but this does seem a bit... ach, dunno. Just sad.

He closed it and you need to come sign right back in cuz I NEED you there! You CAN have dual membership at least for now. Don't let anyone run you off. You are one of the first members there and you have a right to be there. If you feel this is simply a better fit for you, then, that is okay, but don't sign out just because of a few people.

Lisa

[JimfromOhio]

I am taking a breather from Foru.ms.

Bye Bye :)

[BelindaP]

:hug: We'll see you around. Pay us a call when you get back in town. :wave:

[MrJim]

I am taking a breather from Foru.ms.

Bye Bye :)

Well when ya catch yer breath then stop back in so I can congratulate ya proper on those Sox ;)

[Criada]

He closed it and you need to come sign right back in cuz I NEED you there! You CAN have dual membership at least for now. Don't let anyone run you off. You are one of the first members there and you have a right to be there. If you feel this is simply a better fit for you, then, that is okay, but don't sign out just because of a few people.

Lisa
I'll still be around, sis. Can't sign back in at the moment. This is the second time I've felt pushed out - and is just too painful at the moment.
And I am NOT blaminfg anyone but myself for that - am not in a good place at the moment, and probably reacting irrationally.
Anyway - will be around. :hug:
Love you.

[Criada]

I am taking a breather from Foru.ms.

Bye Bye :)
:hug:
Will miss you, Jim.
God bless you.

[NewGuy101]

So a moderate is whoever calls themselves a moderate?

[BelindaP]

For the purposes of this forum, yes.

[NewGuy101]

For the purposes of this forum, yes.
Can I be a Athiest Christian Liberal Conservative Moderate?

[BelindaP]

I don't know. Do you have any moderate views?

[GreenMunchkin]

I don't know. Do you have any moderate views?Ahhh, sticky wicket. Do you mean moderate theologically, or socially/politically?

[BelindaP]

Theologically, of course.

[Willtor]

So a moderate is whoever calls themselves a moderate?

I think as with any term one has to balance what is meant by the speaker (especially if the speaker self-identifies with the term) and what is generally understood by the term in the broader discussion. For example, I have no inherent opposition to either "liberal" or "conservative" but the way the terms are generally used and the way people who typically self-identify as those things use them, I don't do so.

With "moderate" things are a little less well-defined in the general discourse. And given the etymology of the word, some of us (potentially with radically different views on a few or many matters) have an interest in applying it to ourselves. As it happens, some people who self-identify as "conservative" and "liberal" are among us. But there are no well-defined connotations to the word, "moderate." This is probably one of the reasons it's appealing.

The rule for fellowship here is basically one of general kindness, even in disagreement.

[MrJim]

I think as with any term one has to balance what is meant by the speaker (especially if the speaker self-identifies with the term) and what is generally understood by the term in the broader discussion. For example, I have no inherent opposition to either "liberal" or "conservative" but the way the terms are generally used and the way people who typically self-identify as those things use them, I don't do so.

With "moderate" things are a little less well-defined in the general discourse. And given the etymology of the word, some of us (potentially with radically different views on a few or many matters) have an interest in applying it to ourselves. As it happens, some people who self-identify as "conservative" and "liberal" are among us. But there are no well-defined connotations to the word, "moderate." This is probably one of the reasons it's appealing.

The rule for fellowship here is basically one of general kindness, even in disagreement.

great response~everyone is someone else's liberal & someone else's conservative.

By even being on the internet the absolute most conservative member here at 4U is considered liberal by my plain mennonite friends:D

[GreenMunchkin]

Theologically, of course.Hmm. Ok, compared to who or to what?

[BelindaP]

Well, I think that depends upon the person. Everyone has a point of reference. I consider myself moderate in my views because I believe it is wrong to impose my views on others. Many conservatives believe it is their duty to do so. However, I'm not a liberal either, because I don't think that everyone should choose a view that is right for them and they'll be just fine.

[Willtor]

great response~everyone is someone else's liberal & someone else's conservative.

By even being on the internet the absolute most conservative member here at 4U is considered liberal by my plain mennonite friends:D

Haha! I can imagine that.

Although I would contend that even "conservative" is taken differently in different contexts. For example, in General Theology, I frequently see an Eastern Orthodox member talk about conservative theology in a way that is decidedly different from the theology I've considered conservative in my Baptist upbringing.

[Criada]

Hmm. Ok, compared to who or to what?
Now there's the question!

I think it's one of those 'depends where you're standing' things.

I see the moderate thing more as an attitude rather than any set beliefs. My beliefs are pretty much conservative - but I don't feel it is right to berate people who disagree. If the basics are there, we can get along - and even, perhaps, discuss our differences without being nasty to one another.

[pgp_protector]

So a moderate is whoever calls themselves a moderate?

For the purposes of this forum, yes.

Can I be a Athiest Christian Liberal Conservative Moderate?

I don't know. Do you have any moderate views?

So do they need moderate views if they call them selfs moderate or not ?
First it's Yes, then you have to have moderate views :confused: :confused:

[GreenMunchkin]

Well, I think that depends upon the person. Everyone has a point of reference. I consider myself moderate in my views because I believe it is wrong to impose my views on others. Many conservatives believe it is their duty to do so. However, I'm not a liberal either, because I don't think that everyone should choose a view that is right for them and they'll be just fine.More hmm. I unequivocally affirm the CC SoF... what I disagree with is the new approach of a few and the change in CC's direction in terms of approach. But that doesn't detract from my theological standing... however, if people who claim to be conservative Christians repeatedly infer you're really a liberal, maybe you're actually a liberal :scratch:

[Willtor]

More hmm. I unequivocally affirm the CC SoF... what I disagree with is the new approach of a few and the change in CC's direction in terms of approach. But that doesn't detract from my theological standing... however, if people who claim to be conservative Christians repeatedly infer you're really a liberal, maybe you're actually a liberal :scratch:

Maybe the pictures of the be-speedo'ed David Hasselhoff had something to do with it? :scratch:

[BelindaP]

More hmm. I unequivocally affirm the CC SoF... what I disagree with is the new approach of a few and the change in CC's direction in terms of approach. But that doesn't detract from my theological standing... however, if people who claim to be conservative Christians repeatedly infer you're really a liberal, maybe you're actually a liberal :scratch:

Depends on if those conservatives are truly conservative. But that's an argument for another thread.

[Athene]

More hmm. I unequivocally affirm the CC SoF... what I disagree with is the new approach of a few and the change in CC's direction in terms of approach. But that doesn't detract from my theological standing... however, if people who claim to be conservative Christians repeatedly infer you're really a liberal, maybe you're actually a liberal :scratch:

What I suspect might be the problem could merely be the differences between UK conservatism and US conservatism, I hope I can say this without getting beaten up but from my outsiders point of view conservatism in the US goes to extremes which are unheard of in the UK or most places for that matter, our friends over the pond don't do things by halves. In UK standards from what I know of your theology you are very much a conservative.

[edb19]

For me (and I've had multiple theologically conservative pastors agree with me) while I consider my self conservative theologically, I often find that some "conservatives" get too hung up on certain issues that don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Based on that I feel that I have what many may consider "moderate" views.

edie

[MrJim]

Maybe the pictures of the be-speedo'ed David Hasselhoff had something to do with it? :scratch:

http://bestsmileys.com/nono/6.gifthat's just wrong dude, my eyes are watering from the burning sensation created by your verbal photographhttp://bestsmileys.com/eek/4.gif...:D

[GreenMunchkin]

Maybe the pictures of the be-speedo'ed David Hasselhoff had something to do with it? :scratch:That your way of asking for more? :D

You'll be delighted to know you were the sole recipient :P

Depends on if those conservatives are truly conservative. But that's an argument for another thread.k :) Probably a valid discussion, actually.

What I suspect might be the problem could merely be the differences between UK conservatism and US conservatism, I hope I can say this without getting beaten up but from my outsiders point of view conservatism in the US goes to extremes which are unheard of in the UK or most places for that matter, our friends over the pond don't do things by halves. In UK standards from what I know of your theology you are very much a conservative.Yah, Criada and I have discussed that a little. I guess it's all so fluid, it's possibly hard to self-label, and even harder to label others. And yet...

http://bestsmileys.com/nono/6.gifthat's just wrong dude, my eyes are watering from the burning sensation created by your verbal photographhttp://bestsmileys.com/eek/4.gif...:DHeh, you want it, too? :D I think I still have it somewhere. Not at the press of a button or anything...

[BelindaP]

k :) Probably a valid discussion, actually.


I'd be interested in having it sometime, but we should probably wait for things to cool down for a while.

[NewGuy101]

So it's pretty much reverts back to however calls themselves a moderate

[BelindaP]

Pretty much.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

More hmm. I unequivocally affirm the CC SoF... what I disagree with is the new approach of a few and the change in CC's direction in terms of approach.
As do I...:thumbsup: You and I are pretty much of the same mind theologically speaking from what I can see. I find myself agreeing with your posts more than not. :)

For me (and I've had multiple theologically conservative pastors agree with me) while I consider my self conservative theologically, I often find that some "conservatives" get too hung up on certain issues that don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Based on that I feel that I have what many may consider "moderate" views.

edie
Good point...:thumbsup:

[higgs2]

Yeah, this is basically a forum of self-identification. Eventually we'll have a survey and a breakdown of what various members think, doctrinally, and in practice. But even then the results won't be a basis for membership.

In practice, most people are pretty conservative, theologically (as far as I can tell). There are a few self-professed liberals. And at least one person for whom I have absolutely no idea. But regardless of any of that, whatever you may think, if you tend to identify yourself as a moderate, you are welcome to call youself a moderate here.

I started to get pretty depressed, even though I had a feeling that the poll thingy would happen. Then I read this post and I started feeling hopeful again. :thumbsup:

[higgs2]

Can I be a Athiest Christian Liberal Conservative Moderate?

How is this helping?

[NewGuy101]

How is this helping?
Showing how subjective a moderate is being defined here.

[Tenebrae]

Showing how subjective a moderate is being defined here.
Dont you mean excrement stirring?

[Izdaari]

What I suspect might be the problem could merely be the differences between UK conservatism and US conservatism, I hope I can say this without getting beaten up but from my outsiders point of view conservatism in the US goes to extremes which are unheard of in the UK or most places for that matter, our friends over the pond don't do things by halves. In UK standards from what I know of your theology you are very much a conservative.
Uh huh. I'm an American, but you could say I'm a UK conservative because I'm conservative like C.S. Lewis, not like Jerry Falwell.

For me (and I've had multiple theologically conservative pastors agree with me) while I consider my self conservative theologically, I often find that some "conservatives" get too hung up on certain issues that don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Based on that I feel that I have what many may consider "moderate" views.
That describes me too.

:amen:

[higgs2]

Showing how subjective a moderate is being defined here.

Thanks but I think we can get this one our own. Is it okay if we consult with you on occasion if we get confused or need some clarification? That way you can focus on the forums you find most important but be a available to assist us should we need you again. :hug:

[Catherineanne]

For myself, I don't like the thought of being between the Liberals and the Conservatives. I don't think it adequately describes my view or distinguishes them from other people who don't fit into those categories. The first thing I would argue is in not describing Christianity in terms of these two camps - Liberal and Conservative - and then identifying oneself with respect to them.

I don't want to be too pejorative towards my more Liberal and Conservative brethren, so as an analogy that works on one level (and one level only) saying that a Moderate is between Liberalism and Conservatism seems to me quite like saying that Trinitarianism is between Sabellianism and Arianism. Again, not that Liberals and Conservatives are basically Sabellians and Arians but you get the idea: I wouldn't define my positions in terms of what someone else thinks.

I haven't got the foggiest idea what a moderate Christian is, because to me 'Christian' is an absolute*, and absolutes cannot be modified (cf moderately dead), but I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

:wave:

* Spot the fundamentalist

[Catherineanne]

A moderate is someone who reads the scripts of the liberal and the conservative and whips out the red pen.

I'm a moderate, and didn't even know it!! :swoon:

(Cathy edits everything!! :ebil: )

[Catherineanne]

I am confused.

We have:
Extreme Liberalism
Liberalism
Moderate
Conservative
Legalism
Extreme Legalism

How many levels do we have?

As many as it takes before we feel happy with one another.

When I am talking with another Christian, I make certain assumptions about them which I would not make when talking with a Moslem, or with an agnostic. So much is easy.

But once the conversation gets going, certain things can happen very quickly. Then (Lord, have mercy) I judge the spirituality of the person I am talking to, depending on the tone of their reply. I am trying to be honest here, but I think we all do this. The other person does not say to me 'I am a X Christian'. They do not need to. No more than an Irishman, when talking to me, needs to tell me he is Irish. I can tell from his accent, and I can tell because he refers to going to Dublin for his holidays to visit his grandmother; there are clues, in other words.

The problem comes when those clues become the trigger for me to alter my behaviour in relation to this other person. I pull down the 'Irishman' file from my head, and refer to its experiences, and use them to aid communication. If I have friends who are Irish, I can talk about them. If I have been to Ireland, I can talk about that.

I am rambling a bit. What I am trying to say is that we do not any of us label ourselves. The labels come from the outside. Nobody gives himself a name; it comes from his parents.

I use the term 'liberal' of myself because it will save anyone the trouble of asking me to play Bible Poker. But reading here, a lot of the comments made of moderate Christianity are true of me, and my journey of faith. I suspect that if I looked closely enough at conservatism, some of that would also be true of me, because much of my approach to liturgy and worship is very conservative indeed, founded in contemplative prayer and gregorian chant.

I suspect a label is not necessarily a liberating thing. We use it as shorthand, to define something of ourselves, but the minute that is defined, it becomes not true, because we can all be exceptions, and all be paradoxical at times.

I don't believe we need modifiers to the word 'Christian', and yet I use them myself, but only of myself. I myself would regard myself as being more comprehensible with the label 'liberal'. But it is not actually who I am. Far more true is 'Catholic'.

Which means that, true to form, I appear to have contributed lots of words and nothing substantive to this discussion. ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

[Catherineanne]

I am taking a breather from Foru.ms.

Bye Bye :)

God be with you, Jim. You will be missed. :wave:

[Catherineanne]

great response~everyone is someone else's liberal & someone else's conservative.

By even being on the internet the absolute most conservative member here at 4U is considered liberal by my plain mennonite friends:D

Correct. I tend to be 'liberal' here (this forum) but that is a shorthand reflection of my position in relation to other theology here, rather than who I am.

Although I started thinking that whatever a moderate Christian is, it can't be me, maybe I was wrong. But if moderate means losing the 'liberal' red flag to the conservative bulls, then life would really get too dull for words. :tutu:

[Catherineanne]

Well, I think that depends upon the person. Everyone has a point of reference. I consider myself moderate in my views because I believe it is wrong to impose my views on others. Many conservatives believe it is their duty to do so. However, I'm not a liberal either, because I don't think that everyone should choose a view that is right for them and they'll be just fine.

This is the problem. In defining others, we judge them. Not just you, BP; all of us.

Liberals think everyone should choose a view that is right for them and they will be just fine. Do liberals really think this way? I don't. This is a conservative judgement of liberalism, and is a misconception.

Conservatives think it is their duty to impose their views on other people. Do conservatives really think this? I am not sure they do. I think their approach is more to do with their duty to Christ, rather than their duty to 'impose' on other people.

Moderates believe it is wrong to impose their views on others. Do they? And if liberals and conservatives happen to think that they should not impose, does this make them moderates? In which case, what are the labels for?

None of these categories is mutually exclusive, and all of them apply to all of us some of the time. I can be conservative, liberal, moderate, ultra liberal, heck, I can even be fundamentalist in some things.

I think what I am saying is that we can, if we like, call ourselves moderate. But we should do so only in relation to ourselves and Christ, not in relation to other Christians, where it risks becoming a value judgement, rather than a descriptor.

[Catherineanne]

I see the moderate thing more as an attitude rather than any set beliefs. My beliefs are pretty much conservative - but I don't feel it is right to berate people who disagree. If the basics are there, we can get along - and even, perhaps, discuss our differences without being nasty to one another.


Conservatives berate those who disagree with them.

Conservatives can't discuss without being nasty to one another.

Poor old conservatives. What have they done to deserve this?

So now moderate equals conservative views without the bad manners. :)

Maybe this is more to do with conservatives reclaiming conservatism from the bad mannered element, which is not conservatism. Conservatism is about respect for God, respect for what he says, and respect for humanity. It is nothing to do with imposing anything on anyone, or being a bully.

[Speculative]

:thumbsup:Catherineanne:thumbsup:

[higgs2]

Conservatives berate those who disagree with them.

Conservatives can't discuss without being nasty to one another.

Poor old conservatives. What have they done to deserve this?

So now moderate equals conservative views without the bad manners. :)

Maybe this is more to do with conservatives reclaiming conservatism from the bad mannered element, which is not conservatism. Conservatism is about respect for God, respect for what he says, and respect for humanity. It is nothing to do with imposing anything on anyone, or being a bully.


Well you're going to a fun and surpising addition to our little group :D Good insights! Glad you made it to our little place. :)

[DailyBlessings]

Maybe this is more to do with conservatives reclaiming conservatism from the bad mannered element, which is not conservatism. Conservatism is about respect for God, respect for what he says, and respect for humanity. It is nothing to do with imposing anything on anyone, or being a bully.I'd like to think that you are correct, yet I have never strayed from any of those values, but have been consistently warned away from community with the conservatives of the forum... I really do think a certain level of exclusivity is implied by the claiming of the label.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Hmmm...interesting thoughts Catherineanne. You've given me a lot to think about. :) Thank you. :thumbsup:

[Izdaari]

Hmmm...interesting thoughts Catherineanne. You've given me a lot to think about. :) Thank you. :thumbsup:
Yes, indeed, a fine series of posts, Catherineanne! :amen:

God's love for us is anything but moderate. It's boundless, it's amazing, it's over the top! And our love for God shouldn't be moderate either, and I hope none of us mean we're moderate in that sense.

But we ought to be moderate in the sense of being sober-minded, sensible and charitable, and we should always bear in mind when we have theological discussions here, even heated ones, that it is with our brothers and sisters in Christ, whom we are especially commanded to love, even though some of them may at times be a tad misguided.


:preach: :groupray:

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Yes, indeed, a fine series of posts, Catherineanne! :amen:

God's love for us is anything but moderate. It's boundless, it's amazing, it's over the top! And our love for God shouldn't be moderate either, and I hope none of us mean we're moderate in that sense.

But we ought to be moderate in the sense of being sober-minded, sensible and charitable, and we should always bear in mind when we have theological discussions here, even heated ones, that it is with our brothers and sisters in Christ, whom we are especially commanded to love, even though some of them may at times be a tad misguided.


:preach: :groupray:
Amen!

[Joykins]

linking JimfromOhio's thread where he actually researched moderate Christianity:

http://foru.ms/t6344309-still-taking-a-break-but-i-want-to-share-what-i-have-researched.html

[Rochir]

If we all - libs, conservatives, moderates - can come here together in peace and post in a friendly way - man, this place will be AWESOME!!!!:)

[SwirlingEd]

Yea! I found a home forum. Good to see all of you. This should really be a great forum.

:clap:

-SwirlingEd

[GreenMunchkin]

Yea! I found a home forum. Good to see all of you. This should really be a great forum.

:clap:

-SwirlingEdYay!! :clap: :hug:

Hello! :hug:

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

linking JimfromOhio's thread where he actually researched moderate Christianity:

http://foru.ms/t6344309-still-taking-a-break-but-i-want-to-share-what-i-have-researched.html
:thumbsup: Good idea! I think it's worth quoting here as well.

I did some research so I will post and take a break. :wave:

Moderates are in short, hold their conservative positions on most issues but have an underlying worldview of what is neo-orthodox and liberalism. Typically, neo-orthodoxy often focus on orthodox view of Christianity while at the same time retains liberal view of the Bible as subject to error (human reasoning). As a moderate Christian, a person desires to be well-balanced, calm, careful, steady, and sane. "Moderate Christian" basically means those who are moderate, relaxed, and open in how they deal with the world, but who take Christianity seriously. Moderate’s character basically means a person whose primary form of witness is by their life, but they do not hide the fact that they are Christians and that they show their spiritual light through deeds first and then words.

I dislike the part about “view of the Bible as subject to error”. However, I like everything else (so far). You could say I could be labeled as “Moderate Conservative” which means I believe the Bible is not corrupted while man is corrupted of interpreting and reasoning. I do like the fact that moderate Christians often behave better and have better credibility. I also learned that Moderate Christians do NOT jump into conclusions during controversies.

[Rhamiel]

GM you are so much fun

[GreenMunchkin]

GM you are so much fun:hug: You're biased cos we have the same taste in movies :D

[SwirlingEd]

GM you are so much fun

Agreed :thumbsup:. Really glad to see you over here, GM.

....

I've got so many things to say about all of this, but I'm just too busy to write it right now. Let me just say this. I want to be a part of a forum where people are not threatened by thought-provoking discussions, and who are open to the fact that their simple, little human brains may not know everything there is to know about God.

I like to think I have matured enough as a Christian to know that I don't know everything.
:crossrc:

[Criada]

I've got so many things to say about all of this, but I'm just too busy to write it right now. Let me just say this. I want to be a part of a forum where people are not threatened by thought-provoking discussions, and who are open to the fact that their simple, little human brains may not know everything there is to know about God.

I like to think I have matured enough as a Christian to know that I don't know everything.
:crossrc:

:amen:
I think that is the key - the ability to admit that we don't know everything, and never will, this side of heaven!

[Athene]

True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing - Socrates.

[RebekkaH]

Trying to catch up on this newly discovered forum... note to self: continue on page 3 of this thread.
Moderate is about the best label for myself that I've seen lately. I'm too liberal politically and on social issues to really identify truly as conservative. I'm too conservative on Biblical issues to be liberal in that area. I'm tired of being judged as not good enough for one or the other. I'm in the middle :) I have also tried to be really hard-line and tell people what they believe about X or Y is wrong...but honestly, it's just not my style and I can't do it anymore. I am very much more of a just let people be who they are person, because I myself like to be left alone to be who I am.

So I like the term Moderate. in fact, my profile choice on this forum as been Moderate from the time I signed up.
What she said. :)

[RebekkaH]

OK, am caught up now.

I wanted to add that moderation can be healthy. I'm a moderate in that I drink alcohol, but in moderation - and I think that's healthier than not drinking at all and than alcoholism. :sorry:

[chaoschristian]

Our forum specific logo should be a portrait of Jimmy Carter.

He expresses both a traditional conservatism regarding orthodoxy and a desire to pursue the radical inclusiveness and social justice embedded in the Gospel.

[BelindaP]

You are absolutely right, Chaos. He is the epitome of a moderate.

[chaoschristian]

And now we have a name for the forum - The Peanut Gallery

[chaoschristian]

You are absolutely right, Chaos. He is the epitome of a moderate.

For the longest time I've been under the misapprehension that the only way to get to the radical inclusiveness and social justice of the Gospel is to also embrace a radical liberalism.

That's not true.

Looking at examples like Carter and Gordon Cosby I've come to realize that traditional orthodoxy points straight at what I've always viewed as the necessary outcomes of the Gospel.

So that's why I'm here. Attempting to make sense of this new understanding.

[BelindaP]

Who knows? Perhaps we will be a beacon in the midst of darkness.

[MrJim]

Our forum specific logo should be a portrait of Jimmy Carter.

He expresses both a traditional conservatism regarding orthodoxy and a desire to pursue the radical inclusiveness and social justice embedded in the Gospel.

My first instict is http://bestsmileys.com/eek/7.gif but I'm willing to hear it out~Carter and Conservative sorta never said in the same breath AFAIK; but then maybe I jes need educated ;)

He's my first president I ever really followed~I remember Nixon & Ford, but Carter was my first taste of actually paying attention to politics, and, well, it wasn't the best of times...but you would be speaking of his post presidency stuff, right?

[GreenMunchkin]

For the longest time I've been under the misapprehension that the only way to get to the radical inclusiveness and social justice of the Gospel is to also embrace a radical liberalism.

That's not true.

Looking at examples like Carter and Gordon Cosby I've come to realize that traditional orthodoxy points straight at what I've always viewed as the necessary outcomes of the Gospel.

So that's why I'm here. Attempting to make sense of this new understanding.:hug: :hug: :hug: Those 3 represent about a million of 'em.

[BelindaP]

Well, he tried while in office, but couldn't get past Congress.

What most people don't realize is that he is a faithful Southern Baptist. Very conservative in theology, but tolerant.

[Criada]

Who knows? Perhaps we will be a beacon in the midst of darkness.
Amen!!!
:hug:

[MrJim]

Looking at examples like Carter and Gordon Cosby

:sorry: never heard of Gordon Cosby...had to google & find out about him there's not even a wikipedia article...

[Willtor]

Also, Archbishop Desmond Tutu. But, yes, I certainly agree on Carter, too.

[JimfromOhio]

For me (and I've had multiple theologically conservative pastors agree with me) while I consider my self conservative theologically, I often find that some "conservatives" get too hung up on certain issues that don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Based on that I feel that I have what many may consider "moderate" views.

edie

When I first read this last night. I knew what you are talking about. I have had issues with people that got hung up on issues that didn't really matter and out of my control. I rather discuss the real issues.

[chaoschristian]

but you would be speaking of his post presidency stuff, right?

I don't know that there's a lot of difference between President Carter and Jimmy Carter, the man who once was President.

But yes, I am mostly looking at his efforts through the Carter Center in terms of what I call the radical inclusiveness and social justice of the Gospel.

But, keep in mind, Carter (IIRC) had all the alcohol removed from the White House. He's pretty much an old fashioned Baptist.

Anyhoo, this isn't a discussion of Carter per se, but why he's an example to look to when we ask 'So what exactly is a Moderate Christian anyway?'

[chaoschristian]

:sorry: never heard of Gordon Cosby...had to google & find out about him there's not even a wikipedia article...

Cosby is the founder of the Church of the Saviour. Googling Church of the Saviour will turn up more stuff. Gordon himself doesn't have much of a presence on the web.

[Izdaari]

Our forum specific logo should be a portrait of Jimmy Carter.

He expresses both a traditional conservatism regarding orthodoxy and a desire to pursue the radical inclusiveness and social justice embedded in the Gospel.
Well, yes, he does, and I admire him for that. I think he's a genuinely good man and a good Christian, and a fine example of the spirit of moderation. But I still don't think he was a very good President.

[MrJim]

I'd feel a bit odd lookin' at him up there myself ;)

[Catherineanne]

Well you're going to a fun and surpising addition to our little group :D Good insights! Glad you made it to our little place. :)


Give it a week and you'll be calling me a heretic and making up the bonfires. :wave:

However, that week might be fun.

[Catherineanne]

I'd like to think that you are correct, yet I have never strayed from any of those values, but have been consistently warned away from community with the conservatives of the forum... I really do think a certain level of exclusivity is implied by the claiming of the label.

I think a certain defensiveness is almost inevitable from conservatism. I have never ventured to visit there myself, and have no idea how I would be received. But I think it helps to try to think as others think, before judging them. Just as we all contain both male and female, we all contain both liberal and conservative.

[Criada]

I think a certain defensiveness is almost inevitable from conservatism. I have never ventured to visit there myself, and have no idea how I would be received. But I think it helps to try to think as others think, before judging them. Just as we all contain both male and female, we all contain both liberal and conservative.

Excellent point!
And a good reason not to label ourselves.
There is a continuum between extreme conservative and extreme liberal, and I doubt that any of us are at exactly the same point on that line.

(And, FWIW, you would be welcomed by most atCC!)

[Catherineanne]

(And, FWIW, you would be welcomed by most atCC!)

I am welcomed almost everywhere to start with.:sorry: Even the Mormons thought I was lovely for about a week. :ebil:

(And I appear to already have a stalker of the less than liberal persuasion, who has reported about ten of my posts in the past week or so, scattering accusations of blasphemy like confetti. I am not sure I want to acquire any more such. ^_^ )

[higgs2]

Give it a week and you'll be calling me a heretic and making up the bonfires. :wave:

However, that week might be fun.

Oh please.

We're out of wood.

No worries, just be nice :)

[Catherineanne]

Oh please.

We're out of wood.

No worries, just be nice :)

I am always nice. :holy:

I just seem to have a habit of bringing out the best in some, and the opposite in others. It's a gift. ^_^

[chaoschristian]

I'd feel a bit odd lookin' at him up there myself ;)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/chaoschristian/carter_lol.jpg

[Criada]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/chaoschristian/carter_lol.jpg
^_^ ^_^