Formal Debate Challenge: Does Jesus appear in the Talmud?

[simchat_torah]

I do not want to debate anything else in this thread. I do not want to debate what the Talmud says of anything else other than Jesus (the Christian/Messianic Messiah).

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Rules:

1) Please cite the Talmudic refernce when making your argument (example: Sanhedrin 43a). If you do not have the reference material to look up that particular passage, that is ok, I can do so and provide the passage and its translation. Merely cite the reference, that is all that I ask.

2) Only those listed here may participate, as I do not want to end up debating 50 people vs. myself. If you would like to enter the debate, please state so in the thread and tell me which side you would like to debate and I will add your name to this initial post. To initiate I will put BoreanTodd and Yehoshua on the list:

Will Argue Jesus Appears In The Talmud:
Yehoshua
BoreanTodd


Will Argue Jesus Does Not Appear In The Talmud:
simchat_torah
HaNotsri


3) Please stick only to the topic at hand. Please only present issues from the Talmud that relate to the Christian Jesus, and not to such things as Christians in general, Muslims, mitzvot, oral law, etc. All of that can be saved for another debate thread if you so wish.

4) Please limit your references per post to only a few. It is difficult in a debate to address a hundred references someone makes in a single post. If you have dozens of references, great! I merely ask that you break them up into multiple posts so no one is flooded with what they must repond to.


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Now, as I take the stance that he does not appear in the Talmudic texts, I can not prove a negative. Thus I ask that one of you from the other side open up the debate by kindly presenting your argument.

Feel free to cite any sources outside the Talmud that you'd like.

So... Who's up for the challenge?

[ChazakEmunah]

Sheesh Simchat, it looks like no-one wants to take up this debate.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

Deleted baby.

[LilLamb219]

Sorry, wrong thread that I closed...reopened as it was my mistake. Forgive me for my error.

[simchat_torah]

No worries.

Still waiting on formal acceptance of the debate, however.

[A_Pioneer]

No worries.

Still waiting on formal acceptance of the debate, however.PLEASE, don't hold your breathe until a Christian can debate the issue! I'd hate to lose you.

Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
Shalom

[simchat_torah]

don't hold your breathe until a Christian can debate the issue!or Jew or Messianic. ;)

[HaNotsri]

I would be happy to join YOUR side of the debate simchat.

[simchat_torah]

Done. Now just to convince those who are debating in the Messianic section (debates without accountability) to come up here to the formal debate section :)

[muffler dragon]

Done. Now just to convince those who are debating in the Messianic section (debates without accountability) to come up here to the formal debate section :)

You're joking, right? :D

[TheRabbi]

No one from the other side wants to come here. That became obvious from day one of this debate thread. They can't produce the goods and they know it.

[GerTzedek]

ChazakEmunah:

It's not that I'm unwilling to take up debate. But I don't think a strong conclusion can be reached one way or another in the matter. There are references in the Talmud that MAY be Yeshua of Nazareth... but all of them are very suspect. In the end, it looks like he probably isn't mentioned, but I wouldn't want to bet my life on it. I think only a real strong authority could take up this topic, and I am not one.

[simchat_torah]

Its too bad this debate never formalized.

[Steve Petersen]

ST,

Those you challenged have moved on. I don't think we can be certain that there are references to him there. Those traditionally cited by anti-Jewish posters have been dealt with handily centuries ago. However, I think it is possible that Jesus may be alluded to in not-so-obvious ways. That is, he or his followers are referred to euphemistically.

[johnd]

Menachem HaMeiri, in Beit Habechirah, Sotah ad. loc. suggests interpolation / tampering in about the Medieval time period with regard to the insertion of the name "HaNotzri."

Why not the tampering also of the date in which Yeshu ben Panteros?

[visionary]

I do not want to debate anything else in this thread. I do not want to debate what the Talmud says of anything else other than Jesus (the Christian/Messianic Messiah).

===========================================


Rules:

1) Please cite the Talmudic refernce when making your argument (example: Sanhedrin 43a). If you do not have the reference material to look up that particular passage, that is ok, I can do so and provide the passage and its translation. Merely cite the reference, that is all that I ask.

2) Only those listed here may participate, as I do not want to end up debating 50 people vs. myself. If you would like to enter the debate, please state so in the thread and tell me which side you would like to debate and I will add your name to this initial post. To initiate I will put BoreanTodd and Yehoshua on the list:

Will Argue Jesus Appears In The Talmud:
Yehoshua
BoreanTodd


Will Argue Jesus Does Not Appear In The Talmud:
simchat_torah
HaNotsri


3) Please stick only to the topic at hand. Please only present issues from the Talmud that relate to the Christian Jesus, and not to such things as Christians in general, Muslims, mitzvot, oral law, etc. All of that can be saved for another debate thread if you so wish.

4) Please limit your references per post to only a few. It is difficult in a debate to address a hundred references someone makes in a single post. If you have dozens of references, great! I merely ask that you break them up into multiple posts so no one is flooded with what they must repond to.


===========================================

Now, as I take the stance that he does not appear in the Talmudic texts, I can not prove a negative. Thus I ask that one of you from the other side open up the debate by kindly presenting your argument.

Feel free to cite any sources outside the Talmud that you'd like.

So... Who's up for the challenge?Moving this debate to where it will have more freedom to discuss the topic.

[johnd]

My guess is that it was realized sometime after the fact that the Talmud in fact established the historicity of Jesus even as hostile testimony and as an extrabiblical Jewish testimony. So the references were doctored.

And now at least several centuries later you wish to debate using a writing source even HaMeiri considered tainted?

[Bananna]

Does anyone have online sources for research.

Why not take up a veiw you don't believe for the sake of the argumentive process and education of all.