I want to do offerings to YHVH

[fritz300]

I need someone to show me in the Word where it says I cannot perform an offering to YHVH.

My heart is surely in the right place, so I need some Scriptural information on why I can or cannot perform them.

I am not a believer of "Messiah's death on the tree stopped sacrifices". That's garbage and that is NOT truth and does not line up with the Word of YHVH. Yes, He is a fulfillment of the sacrifices just as He was a fulfillment of the spring Feasts... but we don't stop do we? NO!.

Rav Shaul performed offerings when he performed his Nazarite vow in Acts 21:23-26, AFTER the death of Yeshua... He did this and paid for others to do it just to show that he upholds the law.

I am a firm believer that just as all offerings pointed to Yeshua before, I believe that now they would point back to Him... I know we will be doing them in New Jerusalem according to Ezekiel 40+..

I am eager for a powerful experience where YHVH will show me something I never understood before... just as He did with my first full feast season... the Hebrew way of learning... by doing...

Regards,
fritz

[EDIT]
DO NOT THINK LIMITED TO SIN OFFERINGS! Think more along the lines of the meal offerings, free will offerings, etc... the daily Tamid's contained many things and were NOT just limited to sin offerings... infact that is very little part to what we can bring to YHVH's table...

[HaNotsri]

Edit

[debi b]

Leviticus 17
8 And you shall say to them, Whoever there is of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among you, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice,
9 And brings it not to the door of the Tent of Meeting, to offer it to the Lord; that man shall be cut off from among his people.

Sadly we have no place today to take an offering to.

[stone]

I was just thinking about this yesterday.

Is there anything in the scriptures that now prohibit a sacrifice to g-d?

Then again, if he wanted a sacrifice, wouldn't he speak up and make it known?

[debi b]

I'm thinkin Leviticus 17 gives His opinion on the matter. Why would He need to restate it?

[Steve Petersen]

Deu 12:5 But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come: 6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:

Deu 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

[simchat_torah]

I was just thinking about this yesterday.

Is there anything in the scriptures that now prohibit a sacrifice to g-d?Yes. He explicitly picked the place for sacrifices to be made... and that place is currently unavailable.

[stone]

That means its the Temple Mount.

Do the muslims ever do sacrifices? Maybe that's a question i should ask them?

[fritz300]

Is it possible that there is some where on this earth where He has placed His name?

possibly the restored tabernacle of david, wherever it is?

[HaNotsri]

The only place you can offer anything up is at the Temple. The Temple no longer exists, so sacrifice is forbidden

[Steve Petersen]

Is it possible that there is some where on this earth where He has placed His name?

possibly the restored tabernacle of david, wherever it is?

The Temple Mount, where Solomon built the First Temple:

1 Ki 8:29 That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, even toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place.

2 Chr 6:20 That thine eyes may be open upon this house day and night, upon the place whereof thou hast said that thou wouldest put thy name there; to hearken unto the prayer which thy servant prayeth toward this place.

Psa 74:7 They have cast fire into thy sanctuary, they have defiled by casting down the dwelling place of thy name to the ground.

[Lulav]

And while it is true that the sacrifices were to be made in Jerusalem, where he has put his name, at the temple, we are told now believers in Ha Moschiah are now the temple of G-d.

1 Cor 3:16-17 Don't you know that you people are G-d's temple and that G-d's Spirit lives in you? 17 So if anyone destroys G-d's temple, G-d will destroy him. For G-d's temple is holy, and you yourselves are that temple. A woman from Shomron came to draw some water; and Y-shua said to her, "Give me a drink of water." (His talmidim had gone into town to buy food.) The woman from Shomron said to him, "How is it that you, a Jew, ask for water from me, a woman of Shomron?" (For Jews don't associate with people from Shomron.) Y-shua answered her, "If you knew G-d's gift, that is, who it is saying to you, `Give me a drink of water,' then you would have asked him; and he would have given you living water."


"Sir, I can see that you are a prophet," the woman replied. "Our fathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that the place where one has to worship is in Yerushalayim." Y-shua said, "Lady, believe me, the time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Yerushalayim. You people don't know what you are worshipping; we worship what we do know, because salvation comes from the Jews.

But the time is coming -- indeed, it's here now -- when the true worshippers will worship the Father spiritually and truly, for these are the kind of people the Father wants worshipping him.

G-d is spirit; and worshippers must worship him spiritually and truly." The woman replied, "I know that Mashiach is coming" (that is, "the one who has been anointed"). "When he comes, he will tell us everything." Y-shua said to her, "I, the person speaking to you, am he." Your sacrifices should be to show mercy to others, to help others, to love your neighbors, to lover and learn about Him, that is what HaShem desires:

Hoshea 6:6 For I desire mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of G-d more than burnt offerings.

[GerTzedek]

Just chiming in to agree. There is nothing wrong with making an offering. However, HaShem has quite specifically limited to the Temple where such offerings may be made. The reason sacrifices were stopped was because there was no longer a Temple to make them in -- not this Christian stuff about sacrifice being discontinued. Someday when the Temple is rebuilt, sacrifices will resume.

There is a question about whether the Temple must be rebuilt in full -- in the days of Ezra, when the Jews returned from captivity, they began offering sacrifices on the FOUNDATION of the temple, long before it was actually rebuilt.

Why is this important? Because that plaza by the Western Wall is on the Foundation, and there are those arguing that sacrifices can and should resume there. Requests to do so have been made to the government, which has denied them, fearing riot by Arab element. There have even been fringe groups that have almost succeeded in smuggling portable altars to the site.

But this is not my area of expertise. TheRabbi knows MUCH more about this than I know.

Eventually, some Muslim nutcase will blow up the Dome of the Rock, just as they've blown up mosques elsewhere. And of course the Jews will be blamed. But regardless, I think we will likely see the third Temple in our lifetime and resumption of sacrifices.

For the record, I am interested in the rebuilding of the Temple not because of any last days stuff, but simply because the world is not complete without it.

[GerTzedek]

Lulav: you say "now" as if something has changed. Yet nothing in the scriptures you quoted indicates a change. G-d is present in many different ways. We can speak of our bodies as the temple of the holy spirit, and there is no conflict with the understanding that the Temple where sacrifices are made may only be in Jerusalem. It's not a matter of one replacing the other, as both existed simultaneously before, and will again.

YOu do remember, I hope, that Acts of the Apostles chapter 21 records how Paul AS A BELIEVER assisted other believers in making a sacrifice at the Temple in Jerusalem. Obviously he didn't consider his own words to annul the purpose of that Temple.

[Lulav]

Lulav: you say "now" as if something has changed. Yet nothing in the scriptures you quoted indicates a change. G-d is present in many different ways. We can speak of our bodies as the temple of the holy spirit, and there is no conflict with the understanding that the Temple where sacrifices are made may only be in Jerusalem. It's not a matter of one replacing the other, as both existed simultaneously before, and will again.

YOu do remember, I hope, that Acts of the Apostles chapter 21 records how Paul AS A BELIEVER assisted other believers in making a sacrifice at the Temple in Jerusalem. Obviously he didn't consider his own words to annul the purpose of that Temple.OK, so , 1900+ YEARS ago;) it was written that we are the temple, that did change. Where in the Tenack is it written that HaShems people are the temple of His ruach?

It's funny you mention that incident, I have been debating elsewhere just on that fact that the Jewish believers still kept Torah and made sacrifices in the temple, I know it well.:D But he could only be released from that vow because the temple was still standing, today if you make the vow, you can not be released.;)

However being zealous for Torah does not mean you can't be without a temple.

Aslo the OP was asking about how he could make an offering. I just showed what Yeshua taught, as well as what HaShem taught in Hoshea.

[TheRabbi]

Okay, guess what? I'm going to drop the bomb on all of you.

Until David captured Jerusalem, the Israelites built bamot and Mizbechot(altars) wherever they wanted. Once Jerusalem was taken by David and Mount Moriah was purchased, the Israelites had indeed come to the place which God had chosen. From that time forward, Israelites were allowed to sacrifice at the Temple Mount only.

Non-Jews, however, are totally free to build a small altar and make sacrifices and offerings to the God of Israel. This can be done on any high place (Mountain top). It would be best to do it here in Israel where one can be trained by Cohanim and Rabbis who are expert on the subject.

You come to Israel and I promise we'll help you build an altar make your offering.

[ChazakEmunah]

Okay, guess what? I'm going to drop the bomb on all of you.
~snip~
Non-Jews, however, are totally free to build a small altar and make sacrifices and offerings to the God of Israel. This can be done on any high place (Mountain top). It would be best to do it here in Israel where one can be trained by Cohanim and Rabbis who are expert on the subject.

You better back that up with some proof "theRabbi". It sounds an awful lot like you are encouraging non-Jews to commit a very grave sin.

[GerTzedek]

OK, so , 1900+ YEARS ago;) it was written that we are the temple, that did change. Where in the Tenack is it written that HaShems people are the temple of His ruach?

It's funny you mention that incident, I have been debating elsewhere just on that fact that the Jewish believers still kept Torah and made sacrifices in the temple, I know it well.:D But he could only be released from that vow because the temple was still standing, today if you make the vow, you can not be released.;)

However being zealous for Torah does not mean you can't be without a temple.

Aslo the OP was asking about how he could make an offering. I just showed what Yeshua taught, as well as what HaShem taught in Hoshea.
Things don't need to be explicit in the bible for them to be true.

G-d doesn't change. The laws of the universe don't change. If something happens which is a change, it is something temporal. For example, before Israel physically had Jerusalem the rules regarding sacrifice were different because temporal reality was different. There are no sacrifices today because there is no physical temple today -- a change in temporal reality.

But you appear to be arguing that SPIRITUAL reality also changes, and with that I will never agree.

When Paul describes our bodies as being the temple of the Holy Spirit, he wasn't starting something new. He was simply describing what was, is, and will be. No where in Paul's statement does he limit his remarks to believers-- that is something you yourself have added to the text.

[TheRabbi]

Non-Jews have never been confined to any specific area for their offering (it's all over the Bible). If you contend that this is a sin, I suggest you bring a law forbidding Gentiles to sacrifice outside the Azarah. No such law exists.

Indeed, see the explicit permission to what you allege is a "Grave sin".

Let's begin with the Gemarah

Maseches Z'vachim 116, Amud Beis
"The master said, 'Non-Jews are permitted [to offer sacrifice] these days. How do we know this? Because our rabbis taught, 'Speak unto the Children of Israel'. The Children of Israel are commanded against offering sacrifices outside, but non-Jews are not commanded against offering sacrifices outside. Therefore, every [non-Jew] may build a Bama and sacrifice on it whatever he wishes."
However, Rav Yaakov ben Aha said in the name of Rav Assi, 'It is forbidden to assist them or to act as their agent. Rabba said, 'We may instruct them'. Then Rabba cited an incident that proved his point. Ifra Hormiz, mother of King Shabur who sent an offering to Rava with the request, 'Offer up [a sacrifice] for the sake of Heaven.' Rava said to R. Safra and R. Aha b. Huna, 'Go fetch two young men - non-Jews - of similar age, find a spot where the sea has thrown up alluvial mud. (The mud, when dry, would be utilized to construct the altar. This would guarantee that the building material had not previously been used for mundane purposes) [Furthermore], take new [unused] twigs; light a fire with a new flint, and offer [the sacrifice] in honor of heaven.'" Upon hearing this, Abaye asked Rava on whose authority did he permit this highly unusual action. Rava answered that he ruled "in accordance with R. Eleazar b. Shammua… who said, 'As the altar must not have been used by a layman [for mundane purposes], so the wood also must not have been used by a layman…"

It does not appear from this Gemarah that the Tannaim nor the Amoraim thought it to be such a grave sin.

Rashi even adds:

Rashi on Z'vachim, 116 Amud Beis
"The choice "of two young men of like age was to add beauty to the service".

Let's move on to Rambam

Rambam, Maasei HaKorbanos
"Today, a Nochri is permitted to offer Olot to Hashem anywhere he chooses. Therefore every Ben Noach may build himself an altar and offer upon it whatever he wishes. However the altar itself must be artificially constructed as it is said, "And Noah built an altar…" (Bereishit 8:20). Consequently, using a large flat rock found in nature as an altar would not be acceptable. It is forbidden for a Yisrael to help them, because we are not permitted to offer sacrifice outside of the Mikdash. We are, however, permitted to teach them how to offer sacrifice to G-d."

If I'm encouraging people to commit a grave sin, it looks I'm in pretty good company. In fact, it's already being done from time to time.

[debi b]

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be for him who is native born, and for the stranger who sojourns among you.

I firmly do not believe people being the Temple or being filled with the Ruach (spirit) are NT concepts.

***Debi goes to run and hide...

[Steve Petersen]

As far as the concept of our bodies being the temple of God:

Num 35:34 Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.

The word 'among' is the Hebrew 'tavek.' The Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon indicates that one of the meanings of this word is 'within.'

Num 35:34 Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell within the children of Israel.

[TheRabbi]

You should go back and have another look at your lexicon. The word is B'toch and it means within or among.

[Steve Petersen]

You should go back and have another look at your lexicon. The word is B'toch and it means within or among.

Sorry, 'bout that. The Lexicon uses lexical root word definitions and not definitions by usage.

Still, a person could d'rash the passage this way. Wonder if it hasn't been done already? Have any commentaries you read taken this angle? What about the Zohar?

[Bananna]

Okay just a few weeks back we were studying verse on what to do if one could not travel to the land and offer sacrifice there.

My understanding is that we are to sell the sacrifice and use the money to throw a feast of thanks giving.

There was a provision give toward temple funds and provision for the priests.

Here and there one finds small tidbits for the exceptions to the rules. There are many for those outside the land.

I don't ascribe to the views of OP. It would be in my opinion growns for tossing it as unscriptural. However I believe in the authority of the scriptures and their consistancy. So to be interpretation must be one whichup holds sacrifice. It has been since God began it to make coverings for Adam and Eve.

Bananna

[Lulav]

.

[TheRabbi]

God began no such thing for Adam and Eve. There is no verse that says God killed an animal.

As for the practice being unbiblical, see
Gen 8:20 Noah builds an altar
Gen 13:18 Abram builds an altar in Hebron
Gen 26:25 Isaac builds an altar in Beersheba
Ex 17:15 Moses builds an altar in Rephidim
Judges 6:24 Gideon builds an altar
Judges 13:20 Manoach builds an altar
1 Sam 7:17 Samuel builds an altar in Remah
1 Kings 18 Elijah builds an altar on Mt. Carmel
1 Kings 19 Elijah complains to the Lord that the Israelites have broken down his Altars
Isaiah 19:19 There will be an altar to the Lord in the heart of Egypt.

[Lulav]

How did Cain and Abel know to bring offerings?

[muffler dragon]

Non-Jews, however, are totally free to build a small altar and make sacrifices and offerings to the God of Israel. This can be done on any high place (Mountain top). It would be best to do it here in Israel where one can be trained by Cohanim and Rabbis who are expert on the subject.

You better back that up with some proof "theRabbi". It sounds an awful lot like you are encouraging non-Jews to commit a very grave sin.

Actually, CE, what TR states is what I have understood in the scant discussions regarding sacrifices. I, as a Noachide, can make a sacrifice to HaShem wherever/whenever I want.

[muffler dragon]

God began no such thing for Adam and Eve. There is no verse that says God killed an animal.

How did Cain and Abel know to bring offerings?

Lulav:

Are you asking a separate question or are you tying it into the statement by TR?

[ChazakEmunah]

Non-Jews have never been confined to any specific area for their offering (it's all over the Bible). If you contend that this is a sin, I suggest you bring a law forbidding Gentiles to sacrifice outside the Azarah. No such law exists.

Indeed, see the explicit permission to what you allege is a "Grave sin".

Let's begin with the Gemarah

Maseches Z'vachim 116, Amud Beis
"The master said, 'Non-Jews are permitted [to offer sacrifice] these days. How do we know this? Because our rabbis taught, 'Speak unto the Children of Israel'. The Children of Israel are commanded against offering sacrifices outside, but non-Jews are not commanded against offering sacrifices outside. Therefore, every [non-Jew] may build a Bama and sacrifice on it whatever he wishes."
However, Rav Yaakov ben Aha said in the name of Rav Assi, 'It is forbidden to assist them or to act as their agent. Rabba said, 'We may instruct them'. Then Rabba cited an incident that proved his point. Ifra Hormiz, mother of King Shabur who sent an offering to Rava with the request, 'Offer up [a sacrifice] for the sake of Heaven.' Rava said to R. Safra and R. Aha b. Huna, 'Go fetch two young men - non-Jews - of similar age, find a spot where the sea has thrown up alluvial mud. (The mud, when dry, would be utilized to construct the altar. This would guarantee that the building material had not previously been used for mundane purposes) [Furthermore], take new [unused] twigs; light a fire with a new flint, and offer [the sacrifice] in honor of heaven.'" Upon hearing this, Abaye asked Rava on whose authority did he permit this highly unusual action. Rava answered that he ruled "in accordance with R. Eleazar b. Shammua… who said, 'As the altar must not have been used by a layman [for mundane purposes], so the wood also must not have been used by a layman…"

It does not appear from this Gemarah that the Tannaim nor the Amoraim thought it to be such a grave sin.

Rashi even adds:

Rashi on Z'vachim, 116 Amud Beis
"The choice "of two young men of like age was to add beauty to the service".

Let's move on to Rambam

Rambam, Maasei HaKorbanos
"Today, a Nochri is permitted to offer Olot to Hashem anywhere he chooses. Therefore every Ben Noach may build himself an altar and offer upon it whatever he wishes. However the altar itself must be artificially constructed as it is said, "And Noah built an altar…" (Bereishit 8:20). Consequently, using a large flat rock found in nature as an altar would not be acceptable. It is forbidden for a Yisrael to help them, because we are not permitted to offer sacrifice outside of the Mikdash. We are, however, permitted to teach them how to offer sacrifice to G-d."

If I'm encouraging people to commit a grave sin, it looks I'm in pretty good company. In fact, it's already being done from time to time.

Okay, thank you for posting those sources. I have never heard of such a thing before. I was under the impression that it was wrong for anyone to offer a sacrifice outside of the Beit HaMikdash.

[Henaynei]

Purely as an aside ....Is it possible that there is some where on this earth where He has placed His name?

possibly the restored tabernacle of david, wherever it is?

Admittedly it is hard to see this on today's topographical maps as the valleys have long since been mostly filled with debris...

remembering that the http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/graphics/schin.jpg represents the Name of G-d in everything from the mezuzah to the hamsa to any number of historical Jewish art and writings ...
http://www.returntogod.com/jerusalem/valleys.htm
A full color picture representation is available here along with the commentary :)

The valleys of Jerusalem form the Hebrew letter Shin:
4 - Kidron Valley
5 - Tyropoeon Valley
6 - Hinnom Valley
Rubble from destroyed buildings had somewhat filled in the valleys even in Yeshua's time.

It is interesting that the three valleys form the Hebrew letter “Shin.” A modern version of the Shin is shown in the picture below. The Shin represents God’s name as in “El Shaddai” (God Almighty). “Shaddai,” written in Hebrew ydc, denotes the character of God, that He is Almighty. This is how God revealed Himself to the\ patriarchs in Exodus 6:2-3. The Shin likewise represents God’s name and character on Mezzuzot that are placed on doorposts as commanded in Deuteronomy 6:9: “And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_(letter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_%28letter))
A religious significance has been applied to the fact that there are three valleys which comprise the city of Jersualem's geography: the Valley of Ben Hinnom, Tyropoeon Valley, and Kidron Valley, and that these valleys converge to also form the shape of the letter shin, and that the Temple in Jerusalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_in_Jerusalem) is located where the dagesh (horizontal line) is.http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/C_2a.html
God’s Name on the City of Peace
http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/graphics/jerusalm.jpg
The Bible states that ancient Jerusalem bore the Name of God (2 Chr. 12 (http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/NIVBible/Chr_2.html#12):13b; Jer. 25 (http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/NIVBible/Jer.html#25):29a; Dan. 9 (http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/NIVBible/Dan.html#9):18b,19e). This may be not only a spiritual fact but also a literal one. The Hebrew letter “schin” or “shin” can represent “Shaddai,” a name of God (see the previous section, “additional names for and attributes of God (http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/C_2a.html#additional_names_for_and_attributes_of_God)”). And it appears that a figure similar to this symbol actually has been “stamped” onto the city of Jerusalem. It can be seen in Figure 1 that the geographical configuration of the city’s valleys, together with the temple and its location, somewhat resemble a “schin”: http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/graphics/schin.jpg. These are the names of the labeled items: A) Valley of Ben Hinnom, B) Tyropoeon Valley, C) Kidron Valley, and D) the temple. The temple is in a similar location to the “dagesh” of the letter “schin.”
Commonly, a “schin” (representing “Shaddai”) is inscribed on one side of a strip of parchment;

[Lulav]

Actually, CE, what TR states is what I have understood in the scant discussions regarding sacrifices. I, as a Noachide, can make a sacrifice to HaShem wherever/whenever I want. Assuming that you are following the local laws, right?;)

Lulav:

Are you asking a separate question or are you tying it into the statement by TR? I guess it could be both, I was just wondering that, since that is the first sacrifice mentioned not the garden one that can be assumed by the covering of skin, but it could be human skin as well.

[muffler dragon]

Assuming that you are following the local laws, right?;)

I live in Oregon. I can head out to Eastern Oregon, and not a soul would see me nor care. ;)

I guess it could be both, I was just wondering that, since that is the first sacrifice mentioned not the garden one that can be assumed by the covering of skin, but it could be human skin as well.

The provision of covering by G-d is not a sacrifice.

[TheRabbi]

Assuming that you are following the local laws, right?;)
Where exactly is it that kosher slaughter is outlawed?

[Bananna]

God began no such thing for Adam and Eve. There is no verse that says God killed an animal.

As for the practice being unbiblical, see
Gen 8:20 Noah builds an altar
Gen 13:18 Abram builds an altar in Hebron
Gen 26:25 Isaac builds an altar in Beersheba
Ex 17:15 Moses builds an altar in Rephidim
Judges 6:24 Gideon builds an altar
Judges 13:20 Manoach builds an altar
1 Sam 7:17 Samuel builds an altar in Remah
1 Kings 18 Elijah builds an altar on Mt. Carmel
1 Kings 19 Elijah complains to the Lord that the Israelites have broken down his Altars
Isaiah 19:19 There will be an altar to the Lord in the heart of Egypt.
Do not the rabbis teach the heart is the alter unto God?

coverings for Adam and Eve
Gen 3:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=21&version=kjv#21)Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

It maybe you are correct Rabbi, but I do see sacrifice in this and in the offerings of Cain and Abel. I believe Abel did offer his flocklings as burn offerings.

Bananna

[TheRabbi]

Sure Abel did. It's right there in the text. But God? No, there's nothing to base it on. We teach that before the fall, man's was clothed in light(Ohr - spelled with an alef). When he sinned, the light of the soul was dimmed, he saw that he was naked and God clothed his body in skin (Ohr - spelled with an ayin).

The Bible simply says he created for them garments of skin. I found it interesting that your translation takes the singular Hebrew word for skin and changes it to the plural skins.

[Bananna]

Ah yes,
A lot of english translations have similar difficulties.

Do you find the translation different if the skins are plural?

Should the two have only one skin?

[Henaynei]

Where exactly is it that kosher slaughter is outlawed?nowhere in the US of which I'm aware - but in several countries in Europe it is.

[ChazakEmunah]

Ah yes,
A lot of english translations have similar difficulties.

Do you find the translation different if the skins are plural?

Should the two have only one skin?
What theRabbi is trying to say is that we were once beings of light in an upper world. Once sin was committed, we were given garments of skin (the same skin that covers your body) and we were brought down into this world. There's absolutely nothing that supports the idea that an animal was killed and that Adam and Chava were clothed with it's skin.

[visionary]

What theRabbi is trying to say is that we were once beings of light in an upper world. Once sin was committed, we were given garments of skin (the same skin that covers your body) and we were brought down into this world. There's absolutely nothing that supports the idea that an animal was killed and that Adam and Chava were clothed with it's skin.Ewwwww... so my muscle, fat and guts were showing....well lit.. glowing in fact???

I have no problem with glowing with the light of the shekinah glory just as Yeshua did in the transformation. But I do not think that we were without substance since we are made from dirt with the breath of life bringing us to life to begine with.

[ChazakEmunah]

Ewwwww... so my muscle, fat and guts were showing....well lit.. glowing in fact???

I have no problem with glowing with the light of the shekinah glory just as Yeshua did in the transformation. But I do not think that we were without substance since we are made from dirt with the breath of life bringing us to life to begine with.
This is delving into more Kabbalistic concepts, but our n'shomot were created long before our bodies were. And it's not just the skin we received, but our entire physical body. A n'shoma can and does exist without a body. It was only because of their sin that Adam and Chava were given bodies of flesh and bone.

[Lulav]

This is delving into more Kabbalistic concepts, but our n'shomot were created long before our bodies were. And it's not just the skin we received, but our entire physical body. A n'shoma can and does exist without a body. It was only because of their sin that Adam and Chava were given bodies of flesh and bone.

If this is true, then why does Chapter 2 ( before the fall) state that HaShem caused a sleep to fall upon Adam, if he was just a soul, or spirit , then why the need to put him to sleep for surgery? It also clearly states that she was declared bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.

Literally I believe it says that HaShem cast a deep sleep upon the man and took one of his sides,and closed up the flesh

All that before they were disobedient and cast from the garden

[GerTzedek]

Where exactly is it that kosher slaughter is outlawed?
No where specifically. But intent plays a part. For an animal to be slaughtered for food is seen as necessary (except by vegetarians). A sacrifice is an optional thing. Therefore MANY would argue it violates animal cruelty laws.

[GerTzedek]

This is delving into more Kabbalistic concepts, but our n'shomot were created long before our bodies were. And it's not just the skin we received, but our entire physical body. A n'shoma can and does exist without a body. It was only because of their sin that Adam and Chava were given bodies of flesh and bone.
Actually, Adam and Eve had physical bodies BEFORE they sinned. Otherwise what rib from what side was used to create Eve?

[visionary]

This is delving into more Kabbalistic concepts, but our n'shomot were created long before our bodies were. And it's not just the skin we received, but our entire physical body. A n'shoma can and does exist without a body. It was only because of their sin that Adam and Chava were given bodies of flesh and bone.This flys in direct conflict with scriptural account of Adam getting his body before his first breath of life and before sin. Gensis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

[visionary]

If this is true, then why does Chapter 2 ( before the fall) state that HaShem caused a sleep to fall upon Adam, if he was just a soul, or spirit , then why the need to put him to sleep for surgery? It also clearly states that she was declared bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.

Literally I believe it says that HaShem cast a deep sleep upon the man and took one of his sides,and closed up the flesh

All that before they were disobedient and cast from the garden
I agree:thumbsup:

[Tishri1]

IMO Yeshua has the body Man had and will have again and he looked like a regular man only he could do some super human things:wave:

[TheRabbi]

Man had a physical body. This is clear from the text. This body was clothed in light. This is because man is just as much light and spirit as he is physical. But after the fall, the spirit was dimmed. This is why the spirit is not as readily detected as the physical.

We don't know what they looked like. One opinion says that their bodies were covered in segments of hard, clear keratin, like a suit of armor made of fingernail type stuff.

[visionary]

Man had a physical body. This is clear from the text. This body was clothed in light. This is because man is just as much light and spirit as he is physical. But after the fall, the spirit was dimmed. This is why the spirit is not as readily detected as the physical.

We don't know what they looked like. One opinion says that their bodies were covered in segments of hard, clear keratin, like a suit of armor made of fingernail type stuff.I like flawless smooth skin and of a ruddy color which shows that it is very vibrant and healthy.

[GerTzedek]

Man had a physical body. This is clear from the text. This body was clothed in light. This is because man is just as much light and spirit as he is physical. But after the fall, the spirit was dimmed. This is why the spirit is not as readily detected as the physical.

We don't know what they looked like. One opinion says that their bodies were covered in segments of hard, clear keratin, like a suit of armor made of fingernail type stuff.
We are still surrounded by light. It's just that not everyone seems to be able to see it.

[ChazakEmunah]

We are still surrounded by light. It's just that not everyone seems to be able to see it.
I've actually heard of this before. It's called an aura right?

[GerTzedek]

I've actually heard of this before. It's called an aura right?
Yes. Different colors for different people. And they can change if you are sick. The intensely bright aura is very rare; I've only seen it three times in my life. There is a young Jewish girl at my shul who can also see auras. Sometimes if we are sitting next to each other, she'll lean over and say, "Did you SEE that!" usually referring to a beautiful change of shade.

[Steve Petersen]

Yes. Different colors for different people. And they can change if you are sick. The intensely bright aura is very rare; I've only seen it three times in my life. There is a young Jewish girl at my shul who can also see auras. Sometimes if we are sitting next to each other, she'll lean over and say, "Did you SEE that!" usually referring to a beautiful change of shade.


Man, the '60's were good to you! :cool:

[Bananna]

Yes. Different colors for different people. And they can change if you are sick. The intensely bright aura is very rare; I've only seen it three times in my life. There is a young Jewish girl at my shul who can also see auras. Sometimes if we are sitting next to each other, she'll lean over and say, "Did you SEE that!" usually referring to a beautiful change of shade.

Interesting
I've seen only shadows. Green or Grey... I think it the shadow of death or pestilence. First noticed it on a photo just of my uncle just before he died.

Pretty consistant.

Radiance has no color for me... just light maybe white. Like a bridal glow.

The glint of the eye impresses me with the state of the soul.

Bananna

[Bananna]

Man, the '60's were good to you! :cool:

Skeptism does not need to be rude. It is simply not your area of giftedness.

bananna

[visionary]

I seen it, there was this man I was giving testimony to, and as he listened, his head started glowing like Moses coming down from Mount Sinai. The more he heard, the more he radiated. He glowed a iridescent color of white pearl with more clearness in it.

[Steve Petersen]

Skeptism does not need to be rude. It is simply not your area of giftedness.

bananna


Thank God!

[Steve Petersen]

I seen it, there was this man I was giving testimony to, and as he listened, his head started glowing like Moses coming down from Mount Sinai. The more he heard, the more he radiated. He glowed a iridescent color of white pearl with more clearness in it.


'Perhaps a bit of under done beef.' - Ebenezer Scrooge

[GerTzedek]

I seen it, there was this man I was giving testimony to, and as he listened, his head started glowing like Moses coming down from Mount Sinai. The more he heard, the more he radiated. He glowed a iridescent color of white pearl with more clearness in it.
Purity of heart. Of the three I've seen, one was a Yeshua-believer, one was a Chasid, and the third was just some Chinese guy that didn't believe in any of this, but if you spent five minutes with him, you would think, "THERE is a righteous man."