considering the Anglican Church

[BabyLutheran]

My wife, my family, and I have not been attending church regularly for some time now. My wife and I weren't raised in any particular faith, and began attending non-denominational, charismatic churches in our mid 30's. We live in Va Beach.

About a year or two ago, I began questioning my "brand" of christianity. I had no crisis of faith, never losing faith that Jesus Christ was my saviour, but I began questioning the sort of "church" lite doctrines, rock concert style praise and worship, and seeming "pastor" worship that occurs at so many nondenominational churches.

I began searching and found the Eastern Orthodox church. I do now fully believe that the Eucharist is definitely Christ's blood and body, that Mary is to be honored and venerated, and that we can and should petition the saints on our behalf. I had no idea that some Episcopalians believe these things!

I was really drawn to the Orthodox church, but my wife almost ran out of the building when I finally got her to come to a service.

Recently I also began looking at the RC and Episcopal Churches. My wife will not consider RC, but seems open to attending an Anglican/Episcopal church to see how it strikes her.

We have an Episcopal church within walking distance of our home, called Eastern Shore Chapel, but I have heard it is fairly liberal, but we are at least going to check it out.

I also searched on Anglican Communion, but found none in this area. I am not 100% sure of what the gay priest controversy is all about, but that is my wife's main objection to the Episcopal church, so I was trying to find some alternatives.

We even have a charismatic Anglican church which has apparently left the Episcopal diocese and joined up with CANA as a mission church.

Then I searched on "Anglican, Catholic, Episcopal churches Virginia Beach," and got a hit for a church called St. John's Anglican Catholic Church. It looks legit, but small. http://www.stjohnsvb.com/about.html

What are your veteran Anglican/Episcopal's thoughts on all this? From browsing the forum, it looks like the denomination is a big tent, with lots of viewpoints. I am not as conservative as my wife, but am willing to go to a very conservative congregation as a trade off to attend a church that believes the things I explained above.

Thank you guys for listening.

[Diane_Windsor]

You might want to check out www.anglicansonline.com (http://www.anglicansonline.com)

:)

[norbie]

I think Anglo/Cath. would be a good compromise for both of you.
But it is in your heart, realy you won't find a church which fits you 100%. If you are very conservative you would have to go with the RC - but you would have to take the Pope with it. Anglicans got a very big fellowship and you realy have to look very close, it can be a very hard choice - some fellowship under Anglicans are very liberal and would not suit you after what you have written.
But your heart have to be in fellowship with God alone, and you don't have to take everything what this or that church practise. It's your believe that's count.

[BabyLutheran]

Thanks, guys! I am trying to find a good middle ground for me and my wife because it is so important that we begin attending church again, and I didn't really know anything about the Anglican church. I realize there is no perfect church out there, but want to find a place where we can begin worshiping again.

[Mary of Bethany]

Hey, Ortho.

I used to be in the Anglican Catholic Church, same as the parish you linked to. It is one of the "Continuing Churches", and is very traditional in beliefs. Worship is liturgical, the Eucharist is the center of Worship. They use the 1928 BCP and/or the Anglican Missal. They do not ordain women to the priesthood. You'll probably like it, and hopefully your wife will too.

I've actually met Bishop McLean. He seems like a very good man.

Mary

[BabyLutheran]

Hi Mary, thanks for checking in on me!

I was also surprised to find this church in Va Beach, it is a Catholic and Episcopal church at the same time. They share the service together, but take communion at separate altars. http://www.ha-arc.com/

Here is an article about it http://www.catholicvirginian.org/archive/2006/2006vol82iss1/pages/2006vol82iss1.html

Who knew such a thing existed?!?!?

[Colabomb]

Brother, the reason I am anglican, is because Anglicanism is not so prideful as to state that it defines Christianity.

Within our church you will find both Fundies and Catholics, Liberals and conservatives.

Most importantly, in the vast majority of Anglican Churches, you will find the Gospel. this is the center of our Faith as Christians, and what we live for.

Seek Christ and his Gospel. Secondaries are important, but much less so. Seek Christ, and let him bring you to where you need to be.

[Albion]

My wife, my family, and I have not been attending church regularly for some time now. My wife and I weren't raised in any particular faith, and began attending non-denominational, charismatic churches in our mid 30's. We live in Va Beach.

About a year or two ago, I began questioning my "brand" of christianity. I had no crisis of faith, never losing faith that Jesus Christ was my saviour, but I began questioning the sort of "church" lite doctrines, rock concert style praise and worship, and seeming "pastor" worship that occurs at so many nondenominational churches.

I began searching and found the Eastern Orthodox church. I do now fully believe that the Eucharist is definitely Christ's blood and body, that Mary is to be honored and venerated, and that we can and should petition the saints on our behalf. I had no idea that some Episcopalians believe these things!

I was really drawn to the Orthodox church, but my wife almost ran out of the building when I finally got her to come to a service.

Recently I also began looking at the RC and Episcopal Churches. My wife will not consider RC, but seems open to attending an Anglican/Episcopal church to see how it strikes her.

We have an Episcopal church within walking distance of our home, called Eastern Shore Chapel, but I have heard it is fairly liberal, but we are at least going to check it out.

I also searched on Anglican Communion, but found none in this area. I am not 100% sure of what the gay priest controversy is all about, but that is my wife's main objection to the Episcopal church, so I was trying to find some alternatives.

We even have a charismatic Anglican church which has apparently left the Episcopal diocese and joined up with CANA as a mission church.

Then I searched on "Anglican, Catholic, Episcopal churches Virginia Beach," and got a hit for a church called St. John's Anglican Catholic Church. It looks legit, but small. http://www.stjohnsvb.com/about.html

What are your veteran Anglican/Episcopal's thoughts on all this? From browsing the forum, it looks like the denomination is a big tent, with lots of viewpoints. I am not as conservative as my wife, but am willing to go to a very conservative congregation as a trade off to attend a church that believes the things I explained above.

Thank you guys for listening.

From everything you've said, St. John's would most likely fit the bill very well. Without knowing where you live, keep in mind that there is also a possibility in Newport News: St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church, which looks bigger and more established. It has several services on Sunday. www.stmattsacc.org (http://www.stmattsacc.org)

[BabyLutheran]

I haven't gotten too far with my wife in discussing the options, but on the subject of going to the one close to our house, she asked if they had contemporary music. I think that will be one thing that holds her back from it, if the music is too old fashioned.

So, while she is very conservative (think Evangelical type conservative), she does like the modern style of praise and worship. Hopefully there are some Anglican churches around my area which have at least some modern praise music occasionally.

Why is life so complicated? lol

[Gwen'sMom]

I am also looking for a church and I have found this thread to be of some help. I wasn't raised in any particular faith either. I tried one denomination but it just didn't seem right. I am so new to this. I have been looking around my neighbourhood for a curch and have found 2.
Sorry Orthowannabe, I didn't mean to take over your post!!!

[BabyLutheran]

No problem, GM! It's all good.

BTW, I clicked the link to the Anglican Catholic church http://www.stmattsacc.org/

It looks like they even have icons, which I really like. It does look like the ACC is a little to "high church" for my wife, but who knows.

[Secundulus]

I haven't gotten too far with my wife in discussing the options, but on the subject of going to the one close to our house, she asked if they had contemporary music. I think that will be one thing that holds her back from it, if the music is too old fashioned.

So, while she is very conservative (think Evangelical type conservative), she does like the modern style of praise and worship. Hopefully there are some Anglican churches around my area which have at least some modern praise music occasionally.

Why is life so complicated? lol

Most, if not all, of the traditional Anglican Churches are also going to be using traditional hymns, mostly from the 1940 hymnal. That's not because we hate modern music but rather that we view the singing in the Church as a form of prayer and these traditional hymns are orthodox and contain the message we intend.

The Episcopal Church will probably have more of a modern variety.

[Albion]

No problem, GM! It's all good.

BTW, I clicked the link to the Anglican Catholic church http://www.stmattsacc.org/

It looks like they even have icons, which I really like. It does look like the ACC is a little to "high church" for my wife, but who knows.

Glad you brought this up. There is another possibility, but I passed over it because I thought you were looking for a standard High Church, icons-using, church. But if your wife needs contemporary style, this one might be worth considering. http://www.missionofgracennva.org/

You mentioned a CANA parish, but this is one that is affiliated with AMiA, the mission of the Rwandan Province of the Anglican Communion. Its parishes tend towards a mild charismatic way, use the more modern 1979 Book, and are generally a bit less ceremonial that, for example, the Anglican Catholic Church, although conservative in doctrine and practice.

[BabyLutheran]

Thanks Albion, I desire the high church, but my wife would lean more towards the one you just mentioned. By the way the one on my side of the water is called Church of the Messiah. It is charismatic:

http://www.churchofthemessiah.org/

[Albion]

Thanks Albion, I desire the high church, but my wife would lean more towards the one you just mentioned. By the way the one on my side of the water is called Church of the Messiah. It is charismatic:

http://www.churchofthemessiah.org/

If you both have to compromise to some degree, I of course am hoping you find a parish that is OK with both of you. It's difficult to predict which parish would be the better fit, so you may just have to visit each. But if I were to make a guess, my hunch is that Mission of Grace might be less overtly charismatic. Against that, I get the idea that it is a farther drive for you, and it looks as though Mission of Grace is smaller and meets in the afternoon at a time many families find inconvenient.

Let us know, won't you, if you find success with this? :thumbsup:

[Mary of Bethany]

Glad you brought this up. There is another possibility, but I passed over it because I thought you were looking for a standard High Church, icons-using, church. But if your wife needs contemporary style, this one might be worth considering. http://www.missionofgracennva.org/

You mentioned a CANA parish, but this is one that is affiliated with AMiA, the mission of the Rwandan Province of the Anglican Communion. Its parishes tend towards a mild charismatic way, use the more modern 1979 Book, and are generally a bit less ceremonial that, for example, the Anglican Catholic Church, although conservative in doctrine and practice.

I'm glad you posted that. There's a parish like that, that has sprung up near me, but I couldn't remember the affiliation, to be able to tell Ortho about it. :thumbsup:

Mary

[BabyLutheran]

Guys, I really appreciate the help you are giving me, this is awesome. You can call me Mike, btw! lol

I will keep you updated as we sort this all out. Mary knows me from the EO section, where I have been posting for some time.

I don't know what changed in me that I want more of a traditional, high church, as opposed to the "happy-clappy" type mega church. The problem is, my wife still likes that, and I don't. It has been an empasse for quite some time.

I am starting to feel like we are finally moving toward resolving it, and getting back to church, where we belong.

[Mick116]

I was really drawn to the Orthodox church, but my wife almost ran out of the building when I finally got her to come to a service.This sounds very familiar...

Recently I also began looking at the RC and Episcopal Churches. My wife will not consider RC, but seems open to attending an Anglican/Episcopal church to see how it strikes her.My wife was already an Anglican Christian; I was an evangelical (formerly "Plymouth" brethren) with an interest in Orthodoxy, but we decided to compromise, and started worshipping at a traditional Anglo-Catholic parish (which is now linked with the Traditional Anglican Communion). We would still be there if we didn't move away for work.

Again, your story sounds strikingly familiar...

[BabyLutheran]

Mick, are you my doppelganger?!?!?!?lol

[Secundulus]

If you are still looking, I just found this site.

http://shelterinthestorm.org/

It looks like the list of all lists for what you are looking for.

[BabyLutheran]

If you are still looking, I just found this site.

http://shelterinthestorm.org/

It looks like the list of all lists for what you are looking for.
I appreciate the link. One question I have for you guys: it seems that the charismatic end of the Episcopal spectrum tends to be more like other Protestant churches, at least from viewing their websites. No mention of the Eucharist being the actual blood and body of Christ, no mention of Mary or the saints, etc.

Do they believe in any of these things and just choose not to emphasize them, or are they truly closer to any other Protestant like Baptists or Mehtodists in these areas?

[RadixLecti]

I appreciate the link. One question I have for you guys: it seems that the charismatic end of the Episcopal spectrum tends to be more like other Protestant churches, at least from viewing their websites. No mention of the Eucharist being the actual blood and body of Christ, no mention of Mary or the saints, etc.

Do they believe in any of these things and just choose not to emphasize them, or are they truly closer to any other Protestant like Baptists or Mehtodists in these areas?
The first Charismatic Episcopalians were Anglo-Catholic. (read 9 o'clock in the morning by Dennis Bennett) I've never been to an Anglican/Episcopal church that did not believe in the Real Presence. I'd be totally shocked to find a charismatic Anglican that didn't believe in the Real Presence, simply because that is such a charismatic thing to believe in. My own parish is charismatic and worships in a high church format (smells, bells etc.) and has a Catholic approach to Church Tradition. We also believe in the authority of scripture and sing contemporary praise music along with traditional hymns and liturgical chants. We believe that we join the Saints in worshiping God, although we don't really petition them. That said, a couple times a year I find myself saying a "Michael-the-Archangel-defend-us-in-battle". :)

[Secundulus]

I appreciate the link. One question I have for you guys: it seems that the charismatic end of the Episcopal spectrum tends to be more like other Protestant churches, at least from viewing their websites. No mention of the Eucharist being the actual blood and body of Christ, no mention of Mary or the saints, etc.

Do they believe in any of these things and just choose not to emphasize them, or are they truly closer to any other Protestant like Baptists or Mehtodists in these areas?

I do not attend a Charasmatic Episcopal Church so I may be wrong here. The AMiA is both Charasmatic and Conservative. I have looked at the website of one of their Churches and it says this what I quote below about the Eucharist. I expect that they believe in the real presence in the Eucharist.

There are at least a couple of these parishes in your area. From what you said earlier, maybe your wife would feel comfortable in one of these parishes.

My guess is that they probably do not emphasise the Blessed virgin or the Saints like a specifically Anglo-Catholic Parish.

Sacramental Worship “And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is My body which is given for you, do this in remembrance of me.’ Likewise, He also took the cup after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.’ (Luke 22: 19-20) In obedience to our Lord’s command to remember His sacrificial death (1 Corinthians 11:23-26), Holy Communion is the center of our traditional Anglican liturgical worship. We partake of Christ’s Body and Blood with repentant hearts, acknowledging that we are saved only by His grace and sacrifice.

[RadixLecti]

I do not attend a Charasmatic Episcopal Church so I may be wrong here. The AMiA is both Charasmatic and Conservative. I have looked at the website of one of their Churches and it says this what I quote below about the Eucharist. I expect that they believe in the real presence in the Eucharist.

There are at least a couple of these parishes in your area. From what you said earlier, maybe your wife would feel comfortable in one of these parishes.

My guess is that they probably do not emphasise the Blessed virgin or the Saints like a specifically Anglo-Catholic Parish.

Sacramental Worship “And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is My body which is given for you, do this in remembrance of me.’ Likewise, He also took the cup after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.’ (Luke 22: 19-20) In obedience to our Lord’s command to remember His sacrificial death (1 Corinthians 11:23-26), Holy Communion is the center of our traditional Anglican liturgical worship. We partake of Christ’s Body and Blood with repentant hearts, acknowledging that we are saved only by His grace and sacrifice.


The AMiA believes in the Real Presence. I forgot to mention that my church is in the AMiA.

[Aymn27]

I appreciate the link. One question I have for you guys: it seems that the charismatic end of the Episcopal spectrum tends to be more like other Protestant churches, at least from viewing their websites. No mention of the Eucharist being the actual blood and body of Christ, no mention of Mary or the saints, etc.

Do they believe in any of these things and just choose not to emphasize them, or are they truly closer to any other Protestant like Baptists or Mehtodists in these areas?
there is also the Charismatice Episcopal Church, which is a separate denom. www.iccec.org (http://www.iccec.org) that is highly "catholic" (saints and mary, literal body and blood). They have recently splintered though and the breakaway churches are not yet listed on the web - but they can be found at www.coctr.org (http://www.coctr.org) when it is up and running...

this group is made of charismatic/penecostal christians who found their "roots" in apostolic tradition and got a validly ordained bishop (under Roman standards) to consecrate them as bishops/priests -- they have even taken the 79 BCP and re-worked it to their desire and allow for tongues, prophecy, etc within the context of the Eucharist...

they are extremely conservative in that they only allow male ordination, etc..

[Mick116]

Mick, are you my doppelganger?!?!?!?lol
Or are you mine? :)

[BabyLutheran]

Here is a CEC church fairly close by.

http://members.cox.net/mghardy1/index.htm#Top

Here is the nearest AMiA church:

http://www.theamia.org/v2tpl/church_detail.php?cid=2649

And here is a USEC church that says they use blended worship music:

http://www.emmanuelvb.com/

The one near our house, Eastern Shore Chapel, does not say anything on their website about whether contemporary music is used, but we will visit them first since they are close.

Looks like we are going to have a little travelling to do to find out which one fits us. I know the contemporary music is important to my wife, and I am willing to compromise on that for a church that believes in the real presence.

Thanks to everyone for the sage advice, it sounds like there are some places we both can agree on! Too bad it will be two Sundays from now when we can go, my daughter has her monthly swim meet this weekend, and it is both mornings.

RadixLecti, I wish your church was the one that was a quarter mile away from my house...lol

[Albion]

I appreciate the link. One question I have for you guys: it seems that the charismatic end of the Episcopal spectrum tends to be more like other Protestant churches, at least from viewing their websites. No mention of the Eucharist being the actual blood and body of Christ, no mention of Mary or the saints, etc.

Do they believe in any of these things and just choose not to emphasize them, or are they truly closer to any other Protestant like Baptists or Mehtodists in these areas?

A lot has already been posted in reply to these questions, but no, that would not be the right conclusion. It's really the opposite, but sometimes church websites fail to convey what they should.

[gtsecc]

Guys, I really appreciate the help you are giving me, this is awesome. You can call me Mike, btw! lol

I will keep you updated as we sort this all out. Mary knows me from the EO section, where I have been posting for some time.

I don't know what changed in me that I want more of a traditional, high church, as opposed to the "happy-clappy" type mega church. The problem is, my wife still likes that, and I don't. It has been an empasse for quite some time.

I am starting to feel like we are finally moving toward resolving it, and getting back to church, where we belong.
The problem is partially the belief that worship is supposed to be "what I like." Unfortunately, we have told people that "their way" matters in worship. We can't really worship God, when we are simultaniously worshiping ourselves.

[BabyLutheran]

The problem is partially the belief that worship is supposed to be "what I like." Unfortunately, we have told people that "their way" matters in worship. We can't really worship God, when we are simultaniously worshiping ourselves.

You are exactly right, but there is no way not to do this. How do you pick a church without using your own opinion? If I like the traditional church, am I right? Or is my wife right?

[gtsecc]

You are exactly right, but there is no way not to do this. For example, if I like the traditional church, am I right? Or is my wife right?
Which ever one has a more universally accepted liturgy.

[Aymn27]

The problem is partially the belief that worship is supposed to be "what I like." Unfortunately, we have told people that "their way" matters in worship. We can't really worship God, when we are simultaniously worshiping ourselves.Please elaborate on this...

[Albion]

You are exactly right, but there is no way not to do this.

That's correct.

How do you pick a church without using your own opinion? If I like the traditional church, am I right? Or is my wife right?

It can be decided on the facts of the matter, but as noted before, those facts can appear one way to one person and one way to another. For example, in your OP, you mentioned three specific items of belief--Real Presence, Mary, and praying to saints. I have no problem with honoring Mary but disagree with praying to the dead, while agreeing with the Real Presence as all Anglicans almost without exception do. So that's 1 for, 1 against, and 1 toss up. But all can be evaluated on scriptural and traditional grounds before we are convinced of the answer.

If we are only talking about worship style, though, that is much easier and is more or less what we've been discussing on this thread.