Theological Knowledge vs. Faith

[GreenMunchkin]

Have always sort of felt that the more knowledgable you are theologically/historically, the less child-like faith you retain.

Think that's true?

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Have always sort of felt that the more knowledgable you are theologically/historically, the less child-like faith you retain.

Think that's true?


Good question! :hug:

Not sure really. Our faith is oftentimes built on what other people tell you instead of you going to get those nuggets out of the Word yourself.

I went to one semester of Bible College, and to be quite honest, I didn't get much out of the classes. What I learned from the most in that experience was when I went to the prayer attic in my dorm to pray. In those times of prayer and bible study I had some Holy Ghost revelations that I've never forgotten and that I would consider more valuable than any class I went to. :)

[MrJim]

Have always sort of felt that the more knowledgable you are theologically/historically, the less child-like faith you retain.

Think that's true?



When approached scholastically it sure can have that effect...

[Hentenza]

I think it depends on how you use the knowledge. If you use it to bring souls to the Lord then you are serving the Lord. However, if you use the knowledge as a source of pride, then it doesn't matter how much you know because is worthless.
I consider Theological knowledge to be progressive revelation by the Holy Spirit and therefore, to be used to do God's will.

[~free~]

I think you'd still have that child-like faith in the way that you believe what you learn...you trust that it's Truth.

[GreenMunchkin]

When approached scholastically it sure can have that effect...Yah, that's sort of what am asking. Cos, for example, it sort of seems like career theologians aren't necessarily Spirit-filled, on-fire-for-God Christians... unless am just meeting the wrong professional theologians. (Have only met 2 :sorry:)

I think it depends on how you use the knowledge. If you use it to bring souls to the Lord then you are serving the Lord. However, if you use the knowledge as a source of pride, then it doesn't matter how much you know because is worthless.
I consider Theological knowledge to be progressive revelation by the Holy Spirit and therefore, to be used to do God's will.

1 Corinthians 8:1-3
Precisely. Knowledge puffs up... in that verse, it's about food sacrificed for idols, and am just wondering whether that doesn't also refer to sacrificing spiritual food - faith - for the idol of intellectualism. There's an awful lot of pride that comes with being a member of the intelligentsia (theological or otherwise) - it can almost become an idol no?

Incidentally, am asking this, cos I want to learn lots about Christianity's history and etymology, but not at the expense of my faith.

[Rep Daddy]

Have always sort of felt that the more knowledgable you are theologically/historically, the less child-like faith you retain.

Think that's true?



Faith is focused on an object. A child trusts his father because he knows who he is and what he has done. Theology focuses on Who God is and What He has done.

Sound theology I believe strengthens faith not the reverse.

[MrJim]

Yah, that's sort of what am asking. Cos, for example, it sort of seems like career theologians aren't necessarily Spirit-filled, on-fire-for-God Christians... unless am just meeting the wrong professional theologians. (Have only met 2 :sorry:)



1 Corinthians 8:1-3
Precisely. Knowledge puffs up... in that verse, it's about food sacrificed for idols, and am just wondering whether that doesn't also refer to sacrificing spiritual food - faith - for the idol of intellectualism. There's an awful lot of pride that comes with being a member of the intelligentsia (theological or otherwise) - it can almost become an idol no?

Incidentally, am asking this, cos I want to learn lots about Christianity's history and etymology, but not at the expense of my faith.

I think maybe as long as you don't go "professional" you'll be ok ;)

There are exceptional spiritual "theologians" out there~I would consider Haddon Robinson one for example.

But there is an element within the church that almost worships "theology" and "scholasticism" as though perfect doctrine is the end all and be all of Christianity.

[Rep Daddy]

Haddon Robinson is a good example. He was my homiletics prof in seminary.

[Simon_Templar]

Have always sort of felt that the more knowledgable you are theologically/historically, the less child-like faith you retain.

Think that's true?


no. :)

J.I. Packer (I think) said that true theology always leads to doxology.

true study of God always results in praise of God.

He talks about this in the beginning of his book "Knowing God" which I highly recommend (even though I don't completely agree with everything he says).
Those who seek theology for its own sake frequently end up proud, and puffed up by how much they know etc.
Those who seek theology because they desire to know God, always end up humbled by how much they don't know, and by the sheer majesty and magnitude of God.

Now, theology is not required to know God. Simple people with no theological training can and do, know God very intimately. Also, people who have a great deal of theological training can not know God at all.

However, theology is important and it can be very helpful in the quest to know God.

Think of it like this.. theology is knowledge ABOUT God. Knowing ABOUT someone doesn't mean you know them. However, once you begin to really know them, you almost certainly will want to know more ABOUT them, and as you know more ABOUT them, it will help you to know them better.

in addition to that, theology is often a necessary safeguard because knowledge of God through direct experience is subjective, and people are prone to deception. Theology helps keep people on the right track.


So, it really depends on the motivations, and the faith of the person who is pursuing theology. It can end up puffing them up and becoming a stumbling block to them if they are not seeking the right things to begin with.
However, it can also be a great help, and a great motivation if you have the right motivations and the right heart.

[MrJim]

Haddon Robinson is a good example. He was my homiletics prof in seminary.

I like listening to him on Discover the Word~it's on at 5:30 am and that's usually when I'm on my way to work~seems like a genuine guy. It's not often I'd actually like to meet someone I hear on the radio, but it would be neat to sit next to him on a flight somewhere (though I'm sure he'd think differently ;) )

[MrJim]

Incidentally, am asking this, cos I want to learn lots about Christianity's history and etymology, but not at the expense of my faith.

I'd recommend this site (http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/index.html) as one of your resources for studying church history~yeah, it's anabaptist, so you apostolics & calvinists can add your own recommendations too.

[Rep Daddy]

I like listening to him on Discover the Word~it's on at 5:30 am and that's usually when I'm on my way to work~seems like a genuine guy. It's not often I'd actually like to meet someone I hear on the radio, but it would be neat to sit next to him on a flight somewhere (though I'm sure he'd think differently ;) )

He really is a nice guy and an outstanding preacher. I hope you will get a seat next to him sometime.

[ladybug1980]

I feel that if I were more knowledgeable theologically/historically in my faith (not to say that I am not - but I am to be better at this, definitely), the less intimidated I would get if someone were to make snide remarks at me for my faith, and the less defensive I would feel if someone were to try to impugn the integrity of my faith.

I guess I need to work on not wanting to get angry at people who attempt to denigrate or discredit my faith. It's hard for me unfortunately.

[Hentenza]

1 Corinthians 8:1-3
Precisely. Knowledge puffs up... in that verse, it's about food sacrificed for idols, and am just wondering whether that doesn't also refer to sacrificing spiritual food - faith - for the idol of intellectualism. There's an awful lot of pride that comes with being a member of the intelligentsia (theological or otherwise) - it can almost become an idol no?

Incidentally, am asking this, cos I want to learn lots about Christianity's history and etymology, but not at the expense of my faith.

There should be no reason for you to learn different aspects of Theology at the expense of your faith. Your faith is in your heart and the HS is already working within you.

2 Peter 1:5-8
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[GreenMunchkin]

I feel that if I were more knowledgeable theologically/historically in my faith (not to say that I am not - but I am to be better at this, definitely), the less intimidated I would get if someone were to make snide remarks at me for my faith, and the less defensive I would feel if someone were to try to impugn the integrity of my faith.

I guess I need to work on not wanting to get angry at people who attempt to denigrate or discredit my faith. It's hard for me unfortunately.Actually, that's a jolly good point!

Apologetics is a powerful ministry nowadays... can't be an apologeticist without the knowledge :scratch:

Interesting...

[Ishida]

Dunno, we do become like children with our faith, but can we not grow? Crave the spiritual food? I pursue theological knowledge so that I may better serve. To advise your brothers and sisters..

[MrJim]

Actually, that's a jolly good point!

Apologetics is a powerful ministry nowadays... can't be an apologeticist without the knowledge :scratch:

Interesting...

Apologetics is overrated...http://bestsmileys.com/peeping/7.gif

By that (let's see if I can 'splain this clearly) I mean that some believe people can be reasoned into a saving faith in Jesus Christ, as though if enough facts are presented "poof" that will be enough.

[JimfromOhio]

It is a life of FAITH, not of intellect and reason. Faith is subjective, but it is sound only when it corresponds with objective reality by the knowing God as "I AM that I AM", with the help from the Holy Spirit, we produce strong faith. Knowledge of the mystery is having the reality of an experience of knowing God personally and consciously. Jesus Christ Himself is the deeper life, and as I plunge on into the knowledge of Christ and His love.

Quotes:
"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant" Charnock, Stephen

There is head knowledge, head and heart and just heart knowledge. In knowing God (not just about Him) the heart must be involved. A.W. Tozer

Not until we have become humble and teachable, standing in awe of God's holiness and sovereignty... acknowledging our own littleness, distrusting our own thoughts, and willing to have our minds turned upside down, can divine wisdom become ours. James I (J. I.) Packer

[MrJim]

^pretty smart dude for a calvinist from Ohio :P

[JPPT1974]

He really is a nice guy and an outstanding preacher. I hope you will get a seat next to him sometime.

Sounds like a nice guy indeed
And a great preacher
Thanks for the heads-up!:wave:

[rmw8855]

Faith is focused on an object. A child trusts his father because he knows who he is and what he has done. Theology focuses on Who God is and What He has done.

Sound theology I believe strengthens faith not the reverse.

I agree :thumbsup:

If I have a need in a certain area, I go to the Word and find everything the bible says about that subject - I study the word & pray about it. More word, more faith.

[Izdaari]

Yah, that's sort of what am asking. Cos, for example, it sort of seems like career theologians aren't necessarily Spirit-filled, on-fire-for-God Christians... unless am just meeting the wrong professional theologians. (Have only met 2 :sorry:)
You may just be meeting the wrong ones. I heard Scot McKnight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scot_McKnight) (a distinguished professional theologian) teach at a Vineyard church I was visiting... and he totally rocks!! :clap:

[IamRedeemed]

Why does it have to be one versus the other? :scratch:

I had faith long before I had much knowledge.

In fact I can tell you that the more the Lord taught me by His Word and as
I experienced that knowledge from His Word and it came to life in my life, my faith was increased by it.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Romans 10:17

So, in all actuality they are symbiotic in the sense that aside from the measure of faith that
God has given to every man to believe, increased faith comes by hearing the Word of God
and then tasting those words, (testing them) and seeing that they are good, and they are true.

The Bible also tells us to be ready to give an answer/defense "apologia" (greek) for our faith.
1 Peter 3:15

Before I had knowledge I couldn't witness to or show JW's or Mormons the error of their doctrine when came to the door. They were spiritual "giants". I think it is wonderful if rather than them converting you when they come to your door, that rather they should be converted and be saved. I had to study what they taught, and then compare what they taught to what the Scripture says, which is what we do if we are wise. We will seek to be a Berean, so we are not led astray by false doctrines, as many people depend entirely too much on others to teach them, and don't take the time to check and see if what they are being taught is sound doctrine.

God said, "My people are destroyed for Lack of knowledge."

Something to think about......

[NewGuy101]

Have always sort of felt that the more knowledgable you are theologically/historically, the less child-like faith you retain.

Think that's true?


What exactly do you mean by child like faith? I always understood that to mean to purse your faith as a child seeking more and more, not being ignorant as a child which is how I think you are trying to present it. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

And no, the more I study theology/apologetics the more it has strengthen my faith. I seriously think thats a major problem with contemporary Christians as a whole. They have a humble heart but cannot defend their faith scholastically.

[NewGuy101]

Why does it have to be one versus the other? :scratch:

I had faith long before I had much knowledge.

In fact I can tell you that the more the Lord taught me by His Word and as
I experienced that knowledge from His Word and it came to life in my life, my faith was increased by it.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Romans 10:17

So, in all actuality they are symbiotic in the sense that aside from the measure of faith that
God has given to every man to believe, increased faith comes by hearing the Word of God
and then tasting those words, (testing them) and seeing that they are good, and they are true.

The Bible also tells us to be ready to give an answer/defense "apologia" (greek) for our faith.
1 Peter 3:15

Before I had knowledge I couldn't witness to or show JW's or Mormons the error of their doctrine when came to the door. They were spiritual "giants". I think it is wonderful if rather than them converting you when they come to your door, that rather they should be converted and be saved. I had to study what they taught, and then compare what they taught to what the Scripture says, which is what we do if we are wise. We will seek to be a Berean, so we are not led astray by false doctrines, as many people depend entirely too much on others to teach them, and don't take the time to check and see if what they are being taught is sound doctrine.

God said, "My people are destroyed for Lack of knowledge."

Something to think about......

I think an essential part of the Christian faith is one must presuppose the faith/scripture is true and building upon that assumption.

But that just goes with my reformed epistemology/apologetic. :P

[IamRedeemed]

Oh sorry. I guess I didn't make myself clear in stating that I wasn't referring
to the Gospel message. God has given every man a measure of faith to believe in Jesus Christ.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.


I think an essential part of the Christian faith is one must presuppose the faith/scripture is true and building upon that assumption.

But that just goes with my reformed epistemology/apologetic. :P

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

Great question.

My take is that once God grants repentance and gives you Faith, a strong desire to learn about God is present.

Theology is the study of God, and it should always build one's faith. The "child like faith" just adds a log to the Theological fire that we as his adopted children yearn for.

I heard it said once every man is a Theologian.

In Him,

Bill

[Melethiel]

Not at all. I have found that studying Theology has helped to strengthen my faith.

[Albion]

I have observed that many who achieve a high level of knowledge, through seminary training or elsewise, are the most willing to admit that it is nothing of ourselves that saves us. The point is brought home just as with a person to achieves wealth and then realizes that there is more to enjoying life than being rich. There is personal integrity, pride in having done a good job, having family and friends, for some examples, all of which the poor have also.

OTOH, those who have picked up a little insight or training here or there still think themselves ahead of the game in some way. No, real faith is more likely to come when one sees that despite all he has learned, he still needs God on God's terms.

[IamRedeemed]

Amen. And experiential knowledge that confirms what we learn from His Word cannot be duplicated as
it is the kind of knowledge that you know deep within your spirit man that no pompous, self-righteous, jealous, mean spirited, contentious, back biter can take away from you.
Glory to God! :clap:


Faith is focused on an object. A child trusts his father because he knows who he is and what he has done. Theology focuses on Who God is and What He has done.

Sound theology I believe strengthens faith not the reverse.

I agree :thumbsup:

If I have a need in a certain area, I go to the Word and find everything the bible says about that subject - I study the word & pray about it. More word, more faith.

Good Day,

Great question.

My take is that once God grants repentance and gives you Faith, a strong desire to learn about God is present.

Theology is the study of God, and it should always build one's faith. The "child like faith" just adds a log to the Theological fire that we as his adopted children yearn for.

I heard it said once every man is a Theologian.

In Him,

Bill

Not at all. I have found that studying Theology has helped to strengthen my faith.

[DerSchweik]

Have always sort of felt that the more knowledgable you are theologically/historically, the less child-like faith you retain.

Think that's true?



Ironically, it seems the more I learn the less I seem to know, particularly theologically.

Others have said as much already, and I agree that some with "much learning" have had it go to their heads (versus their hearts).

At the same time, the younger the child, the more they need milk and not solid food. While the "faith of a child" is commendable for its qualities of innocence and purity, so too is the faith of the mature Christian for its experience and wisdom.

Personally, I wish I had the faith of a Joshua or a Moses, of a Paul or a Peter; that my name might be worthy of listing in chapters like Hebrews 11 (which, unfortunately it is not).

Being child-like in faith is good and commendable, but being mature in faith and knowledge of Him is, IMHO, to be preferred - especially if we mature in innocence and purity along the way.

Knowledge can puff up the proud in heart - but it can also humble the pure in heart.

Thanks Anna - for being an example of the latter.

[Simon_Templar]

Ironically, it seems the more I learn the less I seem to know, particularly theologically.

Others have said as much already, and I agree that some with "much learning" have had it go to their heads (versus their hearts).

At the same time, the younger the child, the more they need milk and not solid food. While the "faith of a child" is commendable for its qualities of innocence and purity, so too is the faith of the mature Christian for its experience and wisdom.

Personally, I wish I had the faith of a Joshua or a Moses, of a Paul or a Peter; that my name might be worthy of listing in chapters like Hebrews 11 (which, unfortunately it is not).

Being child-like in faith is good and commendable, but being mature in faith and knowledge of Him is, IMHO, to be preferred - especially if we mature in innocence and purity along the way.

Knowledge can puff up the proud in heart - but it can also humble the pure in heart.

Thanks Anna - for being an example of the latter.
good points...

I think a lot of people confuse having faith like a child, with being childish.

It is good to have faith like a child, but not good to be immature.

[BelindaP]

I think I see where you're coming from GM. If one undertakes Theology as a course of study, it will surely rattle your faith. That is because much of what you go in believing gets challenged. To become a theologian, it is important to know what you believe and why, so it is an important part of it.

However, it doesn't have to destroy the child-like character of your faith if you don't let it. Believing like a child just means that you aren't reserved in your faith. Once you shake off the doubts created when your faith is rattled, it often becomes all that much stronger.

An analogy I can think of is my study of science. For some, learning scientifically how rainbows are formed ruins it for them. For me, it just spurs me to more child-like interest and joy into finding about more about them. I mean light-splitting is totally rad, and I could do it for hours at a time.

[synger]

I think there are traps at both ends, and that there is a good solid grounding point in the middle.

If all I have is the trusting, but unknowedgeable faith of a child, I am more likely to be swayed by logical attacks by non-believers, and to end up questioning doctrines I never thought to study.

Been there, done that. I thank God that He gave me mostly neo-Pagan friends who have been (or think they have been) hurt by Christians. I had to go to my theology and history books, and to the Bible, over and over again. In learning to refute them, I learned in much more depth about Christianity.

And then, I went the opposite way. I studied and studied, and thought I knew a bunch o' stuff (because I knew more than my non-Christian friends, and they began coming to me asking questions and such). I was an elder in the Presbyterian church. A staunch Calvinist. I studied the Bible regularly, and the confessions and creeds.

And I found that I had slmost completely lost the mystery of God in the cold, hard logic of theology.

I thank God that He had us pick a house near the local conservative Lutheran church. We went there out of laziness (it was closest, you see). Five years later, both my husband and myself are studying to be members, and are thankful for both the rigorous theology, AND the focus on the mysteries of the faith. It's a perfect balance for us.


As I continue to study theology -- not just one branch of it anymore, but many branches across the various traditions of the Church -- I am drawn more and more into awe and wonder at the simplicity of grace in the midst of the complexity of doctrines that abound. When I need to wade, I can wade safely, like a babe. And yet there are depths I will never be able to plumb.

Thank God.

[GreenMunchkin]

good points...

I think a lot of people confuse having faith like a child, with being childish.

It is good to have faith like a child, but not good to be immature.No... that being said, we're all immature in our faith in the beginning. In fact, many people can be Christian for years and years and still be baby Christians spiritually.

Or did you mean psychologically?

I think I see where you're coming from GM. If one undertakes Theology as a course of study, it will surely rattle your faith. That is because much of what you go in believing gets challenged. To become a theologian, it is important to know what you believe and why, so it is an important part of it.

However, it doesn't have to destroy the child-like character of your faith if you don't let it. Believing like a child just means that you aren't reserved in your faith. Once you shake off the doubts created when your faith is rattled, it often becomes all that much stronger.

An analogy I can think of is my study of science. For some, learning scientifically how rainbows are formed ruins it for them. For me, it just spurs me to more child-like interest and joy into finding about more about them. I mean light-splitting is totally rad, and I could do it for hours at a time.I love that rainbow analogy. Can relate very, very much... thanks, Belinda. This has made me quite thinky, in a good way.

You're right, too. Resurgence of faith always brings it back stronger somehow. Still, worried about it being rattled at all in the first place, somehow.

I think there are traps at both ends, and that there is a good solid grounding point in the middle.

If all I have is the trusting, but unknowedgeable faith of a child, I am more likely to be swayed by logical attacks by non-believers, and to end up questioning doctrines I never thought to study.

Been there, done that. I thank God that He gave me mostly neo-Pagan friends who have been (or think they have been) hurt by Christians. I had to go to my theology and history books, and to the Bible, over and over again. In learning to refute them, I learned in much more depth about Christianity.

And then, I went the opposite way. I studied and studied, and thought I knew a bunch o' stuff (because I knew more than my non-Christian friends, and they began coming to me asking questions and such). I was an elder in the Presbyterian church. A staunch Calvinist. I studied the Bible regularly, and the confessions and creeds.

And I found that I had slmost completely lost the mystery of God in the cold, hard logic of theology.

I thank God that He had us pick a house near the local conservative Lutheran church. We went there out of laziness (it was closest, you see). Five years later, both my husband and myself are studying to be members, and are thankful for both the rigorous theology, AND the focus on the mysteries of the faith. It's a perfect balance for us.


As I continue to study theology -- not just one branch of it anymore, but many branches across the various traditions of the Church -- I am drawn more and more into awe and wonder at the simplicity of grace in the midst of the complexity of doctrines that abound. When I need to wade, I can wade safely, like a babe. And yet there are depths I will never be able to plumb.

Thank God.So you think striking a balance is key to the whole thing? Maybe that's the thing: the two guys I met were professional theologians; it was a job and an intellectual pursuit, very much based on facts and figures. There wasn't anything spiritual about it. Maybe that's the difference.

Can I ask, please: when you started studying more and more, was it because you felt like you could never know enough? Cos I think maybe it'd be easy to feel that way and it worries me a little.

[synger]

So you think striking a balance is key to the whole thing? Maybe that's the thing: the two guys I met were professional theologians; it was a job and an intellectual pursuit, very much based on facts and figures. There wasn't anything spiritual about it. Maybe that's the difference.

Can I ask, please: when you started studying more and more, was it because you felt like you could never know enough? Cos I think maybe it'd be easy to feel that way and it worries me a little.

At first, I studied more and more because I was fascinated by what I was learning. I wanted to be able to answer my friends. I wanted to impress my Sunday School teacher (a retired pastor, and one of the most knowledgeble theologians I'd met at that time). Each doctrine also brought up discussions of the times in which the doctrine was clarified. What did X doctrine mean to the apostles? What did it mean to the medieval scholars who taught it. How is that same doctrine presented today. How has it changed, and why, and are all the changes valid? (sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't)

It can be very easy to get lost in the study, in the history and the doctrine. And yet, God gave us such wonderful minds, to understand His will and do it. Trust in Him, and He will guide you... both to learn more of theology and history AND how to open your heart to the gospel that needs must be the living heart beat of every bit of Christian doctrine.

[GreenMunchkin]

At first, I studied more and more because I was fascinated by what I was learning. I wanted to be able to answer my friends. I wanted to impress my Sunday School teacher (a retired pastor, and one of the most knowledgeble theologians I'd met at that time). Each doctrine also brought up discussions of the times in which the doctrine was clarified. What did X doctrine mean to the apostles? What did it mean to the medieval scholars who taught it. How is that same doctrine presented today. How has it changed, and why, and are all the changes valid? (sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't)

It can be very easy to get lost in the study, in the history and the doctrine. And yet, God gave us such wonderful minds, to understand His will and do it. Trust in Him, and He will guide you... both to learn more of theology and history AND how to open your heart to the gospel that needs must be the living heart beat of every bit of Christian doctrine.Wow. Don't even know what to say. What a wonderful, wonderful post. Thank you so much! :hug:

"... the living heart beat of every bit of Christian doctrine." It's something beautiful and alive, isn't it. It's not fustymustydusty books and coldness, it's rich and amazing. Wow. Want to learn! :clap:

Thank you so so much! :hug:

[Miss Shelby]

Have always sort of felt that the more knowledgable you are theologically/historically, the less child-like faith you retain.

Think that's true?


yes. I am full of all kinds of useless knowledge that I can barely put into practice.

[DerSchweik]

It can be very easy to get lost in the study, in the history and the doctrine. And yet, God gave us such wonderful minds, to understand His will and do it. Trust in Him, and He will guide you... both to learn more of theology and history AND how to open your heart to the gospel that needs must be the living heart beat of every bit of Christian doctrine.

Absolutely agree!! :thumbsup:

When God says, "Come now, let us reason together..." my heart is wholly invigorated to delve ever deeper and deeper into His word - because I am humbled by His grace, that He would want to connect with my mind, appeal to my mind, and reason with me. Can you imagine? God wants to sit down and reason with me?? Is there anything more personal than that? That is why I LOVE studying His word.

The more I study His word, the more I realize the depth of wisdom it contains - wisdom I can apply to anything in my life. The more I read and study, the more humbled I am at just how little I really know. The minute I think "I know" something, God's word puts me back in my place, humbling me to study even more because it has convicted me that knowledge is not something to be proud of, as if it were something unique to me, but something to be applied - to His purposes in my life and in the lives of those with whom I come into contact.

He apportions to me (and us) as much as I am able to maturely handle, in faith, faithfully.

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Have always sort of felt that the more knowledgable you are theologically/historically, the less child-like faith you retain.

Think that's true?


No, I don't think so.

Intellectual knowledge (assensus) is never enough, we must always have love for that faith-content (fiducia). But the two aren't contradictory.

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

So you think striking a balance is key to the whole thing? Maybe that's the thing: the two guys I met were professional theologians; it was a job and an intellectual pursuit, very much based on facts and figures. There wasn't anything spiritual about it. Maybe that's the difference.


I dont think that's exactly fair to most professional theologians, though. Paul, Athanasius, Augustine, Chrysostom, Aquinas, Luther, Barth, Wright- these are men who live their faith because of the riches of the glory of God they pursue.

The same is true for me. I would never have the relationship with God I have today if it weren't for the depths of theology into which I dove five years ago. What can we study and know about God that won't compel us to love him more?

And when God appears terrifying, the great gift of that is that it compels us to remember that that wrath was poured out upon his Son in a great give of self-sacrificing love. All theology begins, and ends, with the cross.

"He deserves to be called a theologian, however, who comprehends the visible and manifest things of God seen through suffering and the cross." - Martin Luther

[Epiphanygirl]

Have always sort of felt that the more knowledgable you are theologically/historically, the less child-like faith you retain.

Think that's true?


Not always....I think I understand what you are getting at though.......to retain the child-like qualities without have to question this or that is one thing.....but at the same time....when you ar firmly grounded in your walk with God, learning more can be so very enriching to the soul......I think the problem may be that some who go searching to learn, often get sidetracked and begin to question their faith....generally those who don't know enough of it and what it really is.......it's a struggle for them at that point to even retain faith because they start to question everything......God in not the author of confusion though........this is why it pains me to see those in the general forum who struggle, bouncing back and forth.....some even completly leaving Christianity behind......those are the ones who deeply need all of our prayers:crossrc:

[synger]

No, I don't think so.

Intellectual knowledge (assensus) is never enough, we must always have love for that faith-content (fiducia). But the two aren't contradictory.
Exactly. They don't have to be contradictory. They should be in balance.

Sometimes you meet someone out of balance. They're the ones, I think, who give Christians a bad name -- either as people who have never studied their faith, or as people who have focused so much on study that they have hardened their hearts.