Masturbation

[AJB4]

Sinful? :scratch:

[EricTheRed]

Yes

[AJB4]

Yes
I was kind of expecting that. :D

[AJB4]

Why though...it doesn't hurt anybody.

[Knowledge3]

For the purpose of lust and private pleasure, yes.

If masturbation is due to a specific heterosexual male medical procedure, no.
. . .

[JuvenalyMartinka]

Sexuality is a gift from God, as we read in the book of Genesis.

It is meant to be shared, a physical expression of our love and concern for a member of the opposite sex with whom we have made a life-long commitment through marriage and is open to the possibility of procreation.

There is a sharp distinction between "making love" and "having sex." The former constitutes the wise use of the gift of sexuality, whereas the latter falls short of this ideal.

Masturbation is self-directed. As such, is a distortion of human sexuality.

By nature, it is incapable of expressing love and concern for an other person. It is also incapable of the possibility of procreation, in fulfillment of our Creator's injunction to "be fruitful and multiply."

Since it "misses the mark" of the wise use of the gift of sexuality, it is considered sinful. This is especially so in cases in which masturbation becomes an addiction.

Hope this helps.
(From the OCA Website QnA)
(Credit: Fr. John Matusiak at info@oca.org)

[AJB4]

Sexuality is a gift from God, as we read in the book of Genesis.

It is meant to be shared, a physical expression of our love and concern for a member of the opposite sex with whom we have made a life-long commitment through marriage and is open to the possibility of procreation.

There is a sharp distinction between "making love" and "having sex." The former constitutes the wise use of the gift of sexuality, whereas the latter falls short of this ideal.

Masturbation is self-directed. As such, is a distortion of human sexuality.

By nature, it is incapable of expressing love and concern for an other person. It is also incapable of the possibility of procreation, in fulfillment of our Creator's injunction to "be fruitful and multiply."

Since it "misses the mark" of the wise use of the gift of sexuality, it is considered sinful. This is especially so in cases in which masturbation becomes an addiction.

Hope this helps.
(From the OCA Website QnA)
(Credit: Fr. John Matusiak at info@oca.org)
I know I'm going to be fighting a losing battle here, but what about the health benefits? Look at Wikipedia.

[EricTheRed]

edit :someone beat me to it

[JuvenalyMartinka]

Health benefits? That is sort of a stretch.

My answers come from the Church , not from Wikipedia.

"Modern science" must not contradict the natural order put in place by our God. We can try and "reason" our way out of it but the Truth will always be the Truth. Whether we like it or not. It is not really ours to like anyway.

[AJB4]

Health benefits? That is sort of a stretch.

My answers come from the Church , not from Wikipedia.

"Modern science" must not contradict the natural order put in place by our God. We can try and "reason" our way out of it but the Truth will always be the Truth. Whether we like it or not. It is not really ours to like anyway.
Yeah yeah. :D

[JuvenalyMartinka]

Show me a place where the Church condones it and I will change my tune. :)

This is the problem of modern times. We want to "explain away" sin with all sorts of "medical research" saying that it is ok now and then we want the Church to "catch up to the times" and when they do not we see science and the minds of men to be greater than the eternal intellect of Almighty God.

[rainbowbright]

I did not post anything here- I walked away and my dd was pushing buttons. SORRY

[Orthosdoxa]

Sex is supposed to be an outpouring of love, of surrender and self-giving, between husband and wife. Masturbation takes what is supposed to be directed outward and directs it inward, towards ourselves and thus is a misdirected passion, that misses the mark.

[Dorothea]

Why though...it doesn't hurt anybody.
It doesn't have to hurt anybody to be considered a sin. It is one of the sins that hurts oneself.

[Silentchapel]

Whom does gluttony and pride hurt? :) No one.

[JustinHesychast]

I was about to argue about the health benefits... but then I realized that the "latest medical research" shows that having sex often and plentiful helps you live longer and stay healthier. I've even read about "gay sex" being healthy for men and women; even married couples! Nothing but a bunch of garbage.

[ClementofRome]

It doesn't have to hurt anybody to be considered a sin. It is one of the sins that hurts oneself.

Therein is wisdom. Heed it. Trust me.

Thank you Dorothea.

[Dorothea]

Therein is wisdom. Heed it. Trust me.

Thank you Dorothea.
Somebody said I have wisdom!!! I've never heard somebody say that before about me. Thank you, thank you, Clem. :blush: :) And you're welcome. :hug:

[rusmeister]

Almost any idiot can go onto Wikipedia and put whatever they believe on there. Wikipedia is useful, but you always have to take its info with a grain of salt.

[ClementofRome]

Somebody said I have wisdom!!! I've never heard somebody say that before about me. Thank you, thank you, Clem. :blush: :) And you're welcome. :hug:

Indeed, you do have. :hug:

[ma2000]

Somebody said I have wisdom!!! I've never heard somebody say that before about me. Thank you, thank you, Clem. :blush: :) And you're welcome. :hug:
Yes, Dorotheea, you have wisdom :hug:

[gzt]

Medical benefits??? The ones listed on that page are minimal, at best. The only one worth thinking about is the slightly reduced risk of prostate cancer. And, well, if you're that intent on avoiding cancer, I can probably point out a dozen easy lifestyle changes you should make to more significantly decrease your risk of more common cancers.

[ClementofRome]

Medical benefits??? The ones listed on that page are minimal, at best. The only one worth thinking about is the slightly reduced risk of prostate cancer. And, well, if you're that intent on avoiding cancer, I can probably point out a dozen easy lifestyle changes you should make to more significantly decrease your risk of more common cancers.

Ain't THAT the truth!!! :thumbsup:

[Silentchapel]

Yeah right, they found 1000 people who masturbate and 1000 people who don't masturbate at all and tested them all. >_>

[Dorothea]

Yes, Dorothea, you have wisdom :hug:
:) :hug:

[AJB4]

Alright, I'll try to stop. :sorry:

I have to learn to submit to the authority of the church if I'm to take my inquiry to the next level (which I will).

[Akathist]

AJB4 you do not have to climb the mountain in one big jump. It takes time to concur all of our passions and lusts in life, including spending too much time on the internet, over eating, gossiping, watching TV shows that distract from Christian virtues, negative angry thoughts, being late to things, breaking agreements, ....

and countless other things. (I tried to list some of my most common failings in the list above... so don't think I am pointing a finger at anyone.)

It is good to try to stop of course. Saying bedtime prayers is one of the very best ways to deal with this. So is having an icon in your bedroom that you can see from your bed. (Or in another room iykwim). Wearing a prayer rope.

Later when you have confession your Priest will help you too. (Yes, we would talk to our Priests about masterbation. They have already heard about it by the way.)

You do not have to be perfect to join the church. But you do need to agree to the teachings of the church even if you still need to take baby steps towards the asceticism of the Church.

It is a VERY good thing we don't have to be perfect to come into the Church too. Or else I would never have been let in myself.

[AJB4]

AJB4 you do not have to climb the mountain in one big jump. It takes time to concur all of our passions and lusts in life, including spending too much time on the internet, over eating, gossiping, watching TV shows that distract from Christian virtues, negative angry thoughts, being late to things, breaking agreements, ....

and countless other things. (I tried to list some of my most common failings in the list above... so don't think I am pointing a finger at anyone.)

It is good to try to stop of course. Saying bedtime prayers is one of the very best ways to deal with this. So is having an icon in your bedroom that you can see from your bed. (Or in another room iykwim). Wearing a prayer rope.

Later when you have confession your Priest will help you too. (Yes, we would talk to our Priests about masterbation. They have already heard about it by the way.)

You do not have to be perfect to join the church. But you do need to agree to the teachings of the church even if you still need to take baby steps towards the asceticism of the Church.

It is a VERY good thing we don't have to be perfect to come into the Church too. Or else I would never have been let in myself.
Thanks.

[SpyridonOCA]

I know I'm going to be fighting a losing battle here, but what about the health benefits? Look at Wikipedia.

Dude. Are you in middle school? Doesn't masturbation get boring after a while? Isn't it adultery to have lust in your heart?

[Dorothea]

Alright, I'll try to stop. :sorry:

I have to learn to submit to the authority of the church if I'm to take my inquiry to the next level (which I will).
:hug:

[AJB4]

Dude. Are you in middle school? Doesn't masturbation get boring after a while? Isn't it adultery to have lust in your heart?
I'm in my second to final year of high-school. And no, it doesn't get boring. Maybe if you do it all the time, but if you do it in between a few days break, it never gets boring. :sorry:

I'll try to stop.

[Philothei]

BTW We do not sin because of our love for Christ :) We do not only do it because it is the Church telling us to, that would be too legalistic IMO. When it comes to temptations I always try to stay focused on Christ and my guardial angel.... I remember my mom telling me when I was young how my angel gets ...sad ...any time I did something bad. This keeps me many times from slipping away be it food on fasting days or whatever. I tell the same to my daughter. The more we sin the more we alienate and cut off ourselves from our Creator and Christ.

And icon and a praying rope are perfect tools for fighting any passion.

God bless,
Philothei

[EricTheRed]

Its very hard to stop. I am still addicted

[Hoankan]

No doubt that it is a struggle. Once started it's hard to break. I was at daily before my conversion. I'm far better now but I still have times of weakness.

I've found that reading a book before you go to bed and then focusing on what you've read instead of letting your thoughts wander is helpful. Also train your mind to find the sin in your day dreams and stop the day dreaming before it gets out of hand.

[Akathist]

Eric brings up an important part of the issue with masterbation for some people. It actually can be an addiction... a chemical addiction. The parts of the brain that is effected when humans are "excited" (I am trying to be delecate here) is the same part of the brain that is effected by cocaine.

I work with people who have trouble with impulse control related to sexuality. I have been doing this at least part time for 19 years. I have seen it repeatedly how masterbation is an addiction. I know so many say "well, decide not to". It CAN be that easy for some people. But, it can be harder then that.

If you have an actual addiction then you need to use the tried and true "Relapse Prevention" techniques that have been worked out in substance abuse. This is what I use.

Some people use masterbation to deal with emotional issues inside of themselves. Some use it to deal with loneliness. Some use it to pass the time if they don't have anything good on TV right then. Some use it because they think they should (the alledged "health benefits above is this justification.)

Part of Relapse Prevention is to identify what are the triggers you have to masterbate. For women it could be a romantic movie or book. For men it could be some attractive woman they saw. (I am not being sexist really... women and men have different triggers most but not all of the time.) (And yes, I have treated women too.)

When you find out what are your triggers you have to set up things in your life to first avoid those triggers. The next step is to have a fully developed plan to escape from a trigger that you didn't avoid or was impossible to avoid.

For example. Let's say this woman jogs by your house every afternoon when you are getting home from school. Let's imagine that is a trigger for you that you have identified. To avoid this try going to the library to do your homework or read every day for half an hour or so that when you get home she would have passed. That is avoiding.

To escape is different. To escape means that if you tried to avoid and it didn't work you have a plan. The escape for that might be something like this: Immediately pray with your prayer rope. Alternatively, immediately say the Lord's Prayer while looking away. Then if the visual of her is stuck in your head imagine her looking real ugly like she has the flu plus a bad perm and has also gained 40 pounds.

Having a list of triggers for you and a detailed plan might seem like an overkill but it really works.

There are professionals who treat this by the way. They don't advertise it much and almost all do something else too (to stay sane). There is a program similar to AA for this as well. (Although masterbation is not the only topic dealt with in Sexual Addictions groups.)

As you try to stop, keep in mind that you may actually have withdrawls. This is not shakes and tremors really but a sudden weakening of your resolve, greater temptations, moodiness. This is why I think it is best to have an adult in real life to help someone deal with this who understands and want to help you stop.

I almost forgot to mention this important trick to stop. If you start to masterbate you can stop at any time. Don't do an "all or nothing" kind of thinking. "I messed up and started so I might as well keep doing it." This will sabatage your efforts. It is better to make yourself stop. Go out of the room. Maybe spalsh cold water on your face. Go pray, read a spiritual book, exercise, read a novel, watch TV. Do something that distracts you.

[EricTheRed]

Dude. Are you in middle school? Doesn't masturbation get boring after a while? Isn't it adultery to have lust in your heart?
Actually. It does get boring which just leads to sicker..and sicker stuff.

[JustinHesychast]

Some people use masterbation to deal with emotional issues inside of themselves. Some use it to deal with loneliness. .......it could be a romantic movie or book.

So that explains my problems.

[ma2000]

Advice from hieromonk Savatie Bastovoi:

http://www.sfaturiortodoxe.ro/orthodox/orthodox_advices_hieromonk_savatie_pornography_pollutions_stranger.htm

Metania is translated with genuflecting there. "Wet nights" is translated with pollutions.

My advice:
Don't eat late at night and don't eat too much in the evening. Sleep on your right side and not on your back or your belly. If you had a "wet" night, wash yourself, change your clothes and read Psalm 50. You must know you shouldn't receive communion that day.
Fasting, prayer and general improvement of your spiritual life will lead you to stop masturbating. But do it slowly and seek advice from your Spiritual Father.
Don't be ashamed to confess your sin. Everyone sins. I know I did many times. After you fall, you get up and start your struggle over again. Don't loose your hope. You will get there.
Don't search for the sin. Avoid it.Think it is not the right thing to do.
Remember that every woman you have fantasies about is a servant of Lord, has a soul and, as hieromonk Savatie said, is like a church of God. You should pray for her and for yourself.

God bless!

Edited to make it more clear. I began with "wet" dreams because I've experienced a bigger lust the days after a "wet" night. In my own experience, that was a problem.

[tekiahteruah]

Just to add my two cents in here, I personally don't think that there is anything to be ashamed of in wet dreams. All that says is that one is a sexual being (which the Church does not deny, but celebrates!) and our bodies reflect that. That is different than the active choice to misuse sexuality. I realize that sins can be voluntary and involuntary, but there is nothing inherently polluting about sexuality, only the misuse of it. My priest essentially told me the same thing about dreams that involve sex (I'm a girl so wet dreams aren't really the same thing.) It's one thing to try to discipline one's sexuality, and it's another thing to guiltily obsess over it.

[Akathist]

Just to add my two cents in here, I personally don't think that there is anything to be ashamed of in wet dreams. All that says is that one is a sexual being (which the Church does not deny, but celebrates!) and our bodies reflect that. That is different than the active choice to misuse sexuality. I realize that sins can be voluntary and involuntary, but there is nothing inherently polluting about sexuality, only the misuse of it. My priest essentially told me the same thing about dreams that involve sex (I'm a girl so wet dreams aren't really the same thing.) It's one thing to try to discipline one's sexuality, and it's another thing to guiltily obsess over it.

Obsessive guiltiness is not good for anything. I don't see anyone here suggesting that. It is just as much a sin to over eat, to spend money on frivilous things, to gossip, to do any number of other "typical" behaviors. But, it is important to stop doing these things... to make the effort to stop doing them. Why? Not out of obsessive guilt, but so that we gain greater self control over our passions and lusts and so forth.

It is a very narrow path we walk. But remember, the path is walked one step at a time. We will fall down. We will fail.

Read my signature. When we fall down it is good for our souls. It is important however that we not stop walking on the path.

[tekiahteruah]

I was not referring to masturbation. I did not say that fighting against that was obsessive-- I was referring to not taking communion after having a wet dream, something which only indicates that one's body has sexual inclinations.

[DavidBryan]

Regarding ways to redirect lust from things you see...the desert fathers talk a lot about how we'll return to dust, old age and then the grave will be our common end (before the resurrection, of course)...it helps me (when I actually think to do this) to remember that the pretty young thing I just saw will not, in a couple of decades' time, be as ideally desireable as she is right now, and old age and corruption will be the end of that body--as it will be of mine until we rise...so that helps to put a damper on it...

[AJB4]

Say, is there any ECF commentary?

[ma2000]

I was not referring to masturbation. I did not say that fighting against that was obsessive-- I was referring to not taking communion after having a wet dream, something which only indicates that one's body has sexual inclinations.
You must know that not even priests can conduct the Divine Liturgy if they had sex... but that's a totally different thing. I said they are not allowed to receive communion that day (after a wet dream). It's perfectly fine the next day. I only shared the things I know from my SF.

[tekiahteruah]

That's fine, but I'm just saying that I heard differently from my own priest-- so there are different views within Orthodoxy.

[SeraphimSarov]

Say, is there any ECF commentary?
I keep thinking the desert fathers address this but now I can't find where it is... :(

[Akathist]

I was not referring to masturbation. I did not say that fighting against that was obsessive-- I was referring to not taking communion after having a wet dream, something which only indicates that one's body has sexual inclinations.

Anyone who is EO should ask their Priest about such matters. It is not us EO's who determine if we can or can not receive (much less if someone else can or can't receive) but the Priests.

BTW, it is a long standing tradition (small "t") that men/boys not receive after this in some areas or jurisidictions. Just as it is the same tradition (small "t") for women who are menstrating not receive. But this tradition is not universal to the entire Church. As a result all we can suggest here is that one consult their Priest on such matters. Espcially as it may be that for one person it is better they receive and for another better they do not receive. The Priest or Spiritual Father (Mother) is the one to consult, not a message board.

[tekiahteruah]

I'm aware of this... that's why I wrote about what my priest said when I asked him about sex dreams.

[authiodionitist]

That's fine, but I'm just saying that I heard differently from my own priest-- so there are different views within Orthodoxy.
This is a case of different applications of the canons, I believe.

[rusmeister]

That's fine, but I'm just saying that I heard differently from my own priest-- so there are different views within Orthodoxy.
Welcome!
You don't have a faith icon - that makes it kind of hard to know where you're coming from. (See my age thread for commentary on concealed information)

If you are Orthodox, what jurisdiction are you in?

[SpyridonOCA]

As Orthodox Christians, we are to pray morning and evening from our prayer books. If you pray before sleeping, in the way that you should pray, you will not masturbate.

[tekiahteruah]

Welcome!
You don't have a faith icon - that makes it kind of hard to know where you're coming from. (See my age thread for commentary on concealed information)

If you are Orthodox, what jurisdiction are you in?
I was baptized in the OCA and was referring to an OCA priest. I also sometimes attend an Antiochian church.

[Tetzel]

Bear

Goes #2 in the woods?

[rusmeister]

I was baptized in the OCA and was referring to an OCA priest. I also sometimes attend an Antiochian church.
Fair enough. Thank you!
I'd welcome your comments over on the age thread (on concealed info). It's hard to know where you are coming from when no info at all is displayed.

[JohnChapter14]

Can abstaining from masterbation hurt the body or cause cancer to the genital organs or damage them?

[SeraphimSarov]

Can abstaining from masterbation hurt the body or cause cancer to the genital organs or damage them?
What makes you think that this could happen?

[rusmeister]

Can abstaining from masterbation hurt the body or cause cancer to the genital organs or damage them?
This can be answered with a simple "No." Period.

[gzt]

I think he's asking a rhetorical question to underscore the silliness of asking about the medical benefits of practicing rather than abstaining.

[JohnChapter14]

I really had those thoughts before----that holding in the mojo could be harmful....

[Silentchapel]

I really had those thoughts before----that holding in the mojo could be harmful....
I will repeat what I said - how on earth do they know that abstaining from sex hurts you? I mean, let us look at it seriously - which study did examine a group of 1000 people who practice masturbation and don't abstain from sex, and a group of 1000 people who don't masturbate and abstain from sex? None, since you will never find 1000 people who abstain from sex/masturbation in today's society. It would be great if they did, but come on. Masturbation is one of the most widespread addictions, and all those 'prostate cancer scares' are used only to justify masturbation without any scientific imput.
PS
Do women who abstain from masturbation get prostate cancer? :D

[JohnChapter14]

Do you abstain from masterbation?

[rusmeister]

Do you abstain from masterbation?
Not sure who you're addressing, but I'll answer in the affirmative.

:crosseo:

(spelling: it's mastur, not master)

[JuvenalyMartinka]

Q: What should I do, my Father? I suffer from sexual passion.

A: As much as you can, wear yourself out, but according to your strength; and have hope not in this, but in love from God and in His protection, and do not give yourself over to despondency, for despondency serves as the beginning of every evil. "Saints Barsanuphius and John: Guidance Toward Spiritual Life," trans. by Fr. Seraphim Rose)

Tame your steed with the bridle of knowledge, lest, looking here and there, he become inflamed with lust towards women and men and throw you, the horseman, to the ground. Pray to God, that He may turn "your eyes, lest they see vanity" (Psalms 118:37). And when you will acquire a manful heart, warfare will depart from you. Cleanse yourself, as wine cleanses wounds, and do not allow stench and filthiness to accumulate in you. Acquire weeping, so that it might remove from you freedom (looseness) in your relations, which destroys the souls that adopt it. Do not throw away the implement without which fertile land cannot be worked. This implement, made by the Great God, is humility: it uproots all the tares from the field of the Master and gives grace to those who dwell in it. Humility does not fall, but raises from a fall those who possess it. Love weeping with all your heart, for it also is a participant in this good work.
Labor in everything to cut off your own will, for this is accounted to a man for sacrifice. This is what is meant by: "For Thee we are mortified all the day, we are accounted as sheep for slaughter" (Psalms 43:22). Do not weaken yourselves by conversations, for they will not allow you to prosper in God. Firmly bridle the organs of your senses: sight, hearing, smelling, taste, and feeling, and you will prosper by the grace of Christ. Without tortures no one is a martyr, as the Lord also has said: "In your patience possess ye your souls" (Luke 21:19), and the Apostle says, "in much endurance, in sorrows" (II Corinthians 6:4). "Saints Barsanuphius and John: Guidance Toward Spiritual Life,