tongues? (not debate)

[Summer23]

For those who believe that speaking in tongues is ok and a good thing -
I was baptized as a baby (sprinkled) in either a United Methodist or a Lutheran church, I'm not sure which, I'd have to check. I've not been baptized underwater since I've been old enough to make my own decisions.
About a year ago I received the holy ghost and spoke in tongues. My sister says it usually happens baptism first, then holy ghost/tongues.
Is that how it's happened for most everybody here? Anybody gotten them switched around like me?
Sincerely,
Summer

[Bruce S]

Same here. I joined a denomination that believes in immersion Baptisms, having been Baptised as a child, they suggested I, as an ADULT, reconfirm my decision regarding Baptism in front of the church on a Sunday. Wanting to fully participate, as directed, I did so.

Many of the readings, showed me that speaking in tounges was another manifestation of the gifts the Holy Spirit would bring. I was terrified of this, I had read everything on tounges, talked with others and just didn't have this SPONTANEOUSLY happen.

Later, some kind soul, showed me how they deliberately spoke in tounges, I learned that for MOST [not all] it is a delibate action, and must be done when you want the Holy Spirit working in your life.

I now do this frequently, and find it gives me edification, and an inner peace that normal praying doesn't. It is a part of me now, and something I cherish.

[allieisme]

I have been baptized in water, but no yet received the gift of speaking in tongues..Although I do want this gift, I think it will come when God thinks I'm ready to have it.
When the pastor at my church asks us to press into God, almost everyone starts speaking in tongue, almost as on command, that being done is almost unsettling to me and I dont know if it is because the devil is trying to tell me these people are faking it, or if its just because I dont have the gift yet

[Bruce S]

I have been baptized in water, but no yet received the gift of speaking in tongues..Although I do want this gift, I think it will come when God thinks I'm ready to have it.
When the pastor at my church asks us to press into God, almost everyone starts speaking in tongue, almost as on command, that being done is almost unsettling to me and I dont know if it is because the devil is trying to tell me these people are faking it, or if its just because I dont have the gift yet
You HAVE "The Gift" just USE it. It is NOT something that slays you in the spirit for MOST Charismatics. It is a deliberate, voluntary, act.

The only thing holding you back, is fear, and pride, and not wanting to look or feel "stupid."

Just kneel, waggle the tounge, let it rip, and TRY IT.

I know, really, how foolish one feels the first time you do this. But trust me, something powerful happens if you are sincere and willing.

The only way you will know what others already know and have, is to swallow your pride, and give it a go.

[Fiskare]

For those who believe that speaking in tongues is ok and a good thing -
I was baptized as a baby (sprinkled) in either a United Methodist or a Lutheran church, I'm not sure which, I'd have to check. I've not been baptized underwater since I've been old enough to make my own decisions.
About a year ago I received the holy ghost and spoke in tongues. My sister says it usually happens baptism first, then holy ghost/tongues.
Is that how it's happened for most everybody here? Anybody gotten them switched around like me?
Sincerely,
Summer
There is no formula that the Holy Spirit must adhere to. It's a mystery how He works and what He does.

John 3:8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

I have a very different understanding of this topic, but this is not meant to be a debate. Perhaps if you post this in the Charismatic forum the responses may be more useful for you?

[OnederWoman]

A friend of mine received the baptism of the holy spirit at the time he received salvation... he did the water baptism later.

[Godzman]

there is know specific formula, but both baptisms should be done or seeked for

[xaeniac]

I don't necessarily think speaking in tongues is a good thing, unless you can interpret it and God has given you this talent. Don't fake doing it, whatever you do. If you want insight on this subject read 1Corinthians Chapter 14.


3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[3] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[4] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

[didaskalos]

You HAVE "The Gift" just USE it. It is NOT something that slays you in the spirit for MOST Charismatics. It is a deliberate, voluntary, act.

The only thing holding you back, is fear, and pride, and not wanting to look or feel "stupid."

Just kneel, waggle the tounge, let it rip, and TRY IT.

I know, really, how foolish one feels the first time you do this. But trust me, something powerful happens if you are sincere and willing.

The only way you will know what others already know and have, is to swallow your pride, and give it a go.I agree but would add one thing bro.
When you prepare to speak, preface it with some praise and worship... and then look to your spirit for the sounds. Use the same source that the praise and worship is flowing from. If you are not used to vocal praise and worship, then get a few good praise tapes from your church or local Christian music store.
I like the "God's Word" version of Eph 5:17-18

Eph 5
18 Don't get drunk on wine, which leads to wild living. Instead, be filled with the Spirit
19 by reciting psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs for your own good. Sing and make music to the Lord with your heart

Notice that it correctly places the word "by" into the text. The act of praising and worshipping will "fill" you with the spirit and then you can naturally move directly into tongues or even prophesying.

[allieisme]

I don't necessarily think speaking in tongues is a good thing, unless you can interpret it and God has given you this talent. Don't fake doing it, whatever you do. If you want insight on this subject read 1Corinthians Chapter 14.


3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[3] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[4] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
I always thought that if you are speaking in tongues in prayer, it is your spirit within you. Deep in prayer or worshipping..
And speaking in tongues because of a message is different, is it not..
Why would you need your own interpretation of your prayer.. You only have a interpretation that follows a message from God.
Unless I'm confused here.

[allieisme]

You HAVE "The Gift" just USE it. It is NOT something that slays you in the spirit for MOST Charismatics. It is a deliberate, voluntary, act.

The only thing holding you back, is fear, and pride, and not wanting to look or feel "stupid."

Just kneel, waggle the tounge, let it rip, and TRY IT.

I know, really, how foolish one feels the first time you do this. But trust me, something powerful happens if you are sincere and willing.

The only way you will know what others already know and have, is to swallow your pride, and give it a go.
Fear and pride.. I know, that is exactly why, I'm not doing it.. I know I might feel and look stupid, but why should I care, everyone else is in their own place worshipping the Lord..I shouldnt care, what I need to do is ask God to take that fear away..and thats what I'm going to do..

[xaeniac]

Again, Allieisme; I am just quoting scripture. 1Corinthians Chapter 14 will explain everything you may question about tongues. I am not doubting that it may not be holy. Read the book that God has supplied. Have you ever questioned that you were not blessed with the gift of tongues? Surely, not everyone is. Also, sometimes tongues is misintepreted. It is also referred when you speak and every different language can hear you in their own. Again read 1Corinthians Chapter 14. God bless.

[Summer23]

For the person who was seeking to speak in tongues but having a hard time with it, one thing that the people praying with me did was they kept having me pray, just praise God, and I think that made it easier for me because then my tongue was moving already, so I wasn't as stiff. Plus praising God never hurts. :)

The thing that was so weird for me was that when I started speaking in tongues my tongue moved in a completely different way then it does when I talk, and in fact I couldn't replicate it on my own later. I thought that was really interesting.

To the person who suggested that I post this in the CHarismatic section, I think I'll do that too. Thanks. :)
Summer

[Bruce S]

Fear and pride.. I know, that is exactly why, I'm not doing it.. I know I might feel and look stupid, but why should I care, everyone else is in their own place worshipping the Lord..I shouldnt care, what I need to do is ask God to take that fear away..and thats what I'm going to do..
WARNING:

Grin, you WILL "look stupid" when you approach the Holy Spirit via TOUNGES. That is a given. :help:

But the Lord wants a "BROKEN PERSON" one completely uncaring of how others think of him, one who seeks without care, the power and glory of the creator.

Look, just about everything we do, makes one look and feel "stupid."

Kneeling in prayer is "stupid" isn't it? Why does God like that, you COULD pray while driving, many if not most of us do that, but why KNEEL? It is a sign of submission to God, humbling oneself.

Others are WATER BAPTISM. Talk about "dumb"...getting DUNKED as a sign of submission?! Goofy. Right? But we do that, we are INSTRUCTED to do it, so we do.

Others are RAISING HANDS while praising. I came from a denomination, that if one raised hands, or clapped in service, they would all turn and stare intently at you for being "disrespectful" and some might ask for that demonstrative behavior to not be repeated. But most Pentacostals KNOW that the Lord LOVES hands being raised to the Lord, and exhuberant and lively clapping, and Amen'ing are good for the soul, it engages you with the Lord.

Tounges is ODD, NOT NATURAL, COUNTERINTUITIVE, it IS a test, a REAL test of your willingness to follow the ENTIRE RULEBOOK, as set forth by the Apostle Paul. He gave EXPLICIT instructions on the use, and misuse of "The Indwelling" and the "Followup Use OF" tounges.

If you have courage, are completely submissive to the full desire to invite IN and have the USE OF, the Holy Spirit, you DO. Just DO. Do it without reservations.

Get down on your knees, pray verbally, suck in your gut, and make those silly sounds that the Holy Spirit will put into your mouth.

And be prepared. Honestly. You will shudder, your body will tremble, if you keep this up long enough. SOMETHING happens, you WILL feel this. It is palpable, it is real.

But, unless you are willing, brave, unworried about the foolishness of this, you will never, ever experience the full INDWELLING of the HS, and your prayer life will be constrained.

Do you have the COURAGE to be a careless fool? Do you TRUST God enough in the PRIVACY of your HOME to guide you?

Prove the Bible wrong, give this a real try, come back, give us your experience.

I know personally, this took me five months to get the courage to be a fool for the Holy Spirit. I am a "head guy" and if you can't PROVE it to me intellecutally, NO WAY am I gonna do the nonsense the more spirit filled folks do ... like falling down, and such. But this one, it was, over and over, THERE, right THERE in the Epistles and Acts versions of my Bible. I couild NOT ignore the reality, that the early Christians ALL felt that this was almost a REQUIREMENT of faith, widely, and universally practiced.

I had to pay attention, it was too clear, that this was something that we were TOLD was a universal practice, so my denomination, being Pentacostal thought so too. As a new Pentacostal, I had to do a LOT of goofy things. Resisted the raised hands for a few months, then I HAD to, it was another thing that was THERE, black and white, in scripture, so I RELUCTANTLY, did it. Now I love raising the hands to God, feels natural.

Tounges is natural too now, but you have to give it an honest try. Do it alone, without witnesses, after you FEEL what happens, you might dare it around others, but that will come, or not, with time.

Are you a BRAVE broken Christian or not?

[Amleto]

Hmmm, the bible surely says that not everyone receives the gift of tongues (or another language) 1 cor 12:27-30. It also says that speaking in tongues should ONLY be done with an interpreter 1 cor 14:28

[didaskalos]

Hmmm, the bible surely says that not everyone receives the gift of tongues (or another language) 1 cor 12:27-30. It also says that speaking in tongues should ONLY be done with an interpreter 1 cor 14:28As you say, this is talking about the gift... we are talking about the prayer language that we all have.

[Fiskare]

As you say, this is talking about the gift... we are talking about the prayer language that we all have.
The Bible says nothing of a "prayer language" given to all believers, and it says nothing about "Get down on your knees, pray verbally, suck in your gut, and make those silly sounds that the Holy Spirit will put into your mouth." as some kind of coaching to get it.

The Bible speaks of a genuinely miraculous and amazing gift that is impossible to learn or coach someone into receiving. It speaks of genuine languages too, which means that verbs, nouns, grammar, and syntax etc. would all be present and discernable to the Church.

[Amleto]

I agree with Fiskare :)

[didaskalos]

Jesus says:
"And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak in new languages"

The Bible says nothing of a "prayer language" given to all believers... I agree with Fiskare
Paul agrees with Jesus:
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is not productive.

Didy agrees with Jesus and Paul. The sign of new tongues follows me because I am a believer. My spirit prays with tongues. :wave:

[Fiskare]

Jesus says:
"And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak in new languages"

..and they did! No argument there. However, note: "languages". (Fulfilled and described in Acts 2)


Paul agrees with Jesus:
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is not productive.
All prayer is spiritual. If it was carnal it wouldn't be prayer. However, this text says nothing of a private prayer language, does it? Furthermore, Paul is not commending the practice, but cautioning about its pitfalls.

Didy agrees with Jesus and Paul. The sign of new tongues follows me because I am a believer. My spirit prays with tongues. :wave:
My spirit prays with tongues too- usually English, sometimes Latin, Chinese or Swedish, depending on the church service or who I'm with.

I challenge any pente to show me that the orthodox understanding of these texts is of a) a private prayer language and b) that it continued thoughout the history of the church and c) that this is the understanding passed down from the Apostles to us.

So, Fiskare agrees with Paul, Jesus, and of course the church of 2000 years.

:)

[didaskalos]

[/color]

..and they did! No argument there. However, note: "languages". (Fulfilled and described in Acts 2)



All prayer is spiritual. If it was carnal it wouldn't be prayer. However, this text says nothing of a private prayer language, does it? Furthermore, Paul is not commending the practice, but cautioning about its pitfalls.


My spirit prays with tongues too- usually English, sometimes Latin, Chinese or Swedish, depending on the church service or who I'm with.

I challenge any pente to show me that the orthodox understanding of these texts is of a) a private prayer language and b) that it continued thoughout the history of the church and c) that this is the understanding passed down from the Apostles to us.

So, Fiskare agrees with Paul, Jesus, and of course the church of 2000 years.

:)The stretching of these meanings is so extreme that this post does not even deserve a response. The twisting and ignoring of plain words is so far from common sense that the arguments defeat themselves. Nuff said.
Your challenge will go ignored by me... If you do not believe the plain words of Jesus and Paul.... what hope have we to convince you?

[tigersnare]

I have a question that was given to me...what was the purpose of speaking in tounges?

I agree with Fisk.

[tigersnare]

WARNING:
But the Lord wants a "BROKEN PERSON" one completely uncaring of how others think of him, one who seeks without care, the power and glory of the creator.
Agreed, many proverbs and Jesus quotes pertaining to the approval of man....worthless.


Tounges is ODD, NOT NATURAL, COUNTERINTUITIVE, it IS a test, a REAL test of your willingness to follow the ENTIRE RULEBOOK, as set forth by the Apostle Paul.
Is it really? Where does Paul or Jesus for that matter test my willingness to walk with God and live by the bible, by "tounges"? I'm pretty sure tounges is a gift from the Holy Spirit, you are either given it or you or not.




If you have courage, are completely submissive to the full desire to invite IN and have the USE OF, the Holy Spirit, you DO. Just DO. Do it without reservations.
Wait, do I have use of the Holy Spirit when I fully desire and invite it in......

Or does it have use of me? Am I using God, or is he using me? ;)


Get down on your knees, pray verbally, suck in your gut, and make those silly sounds that the Holy Spirit will put into your mouth.
Silly Sounds? Do those "sounds" serve a purpose? I'm just curious.




But, unless you are willing, brave, unworried about the foolishness of this, you will never, ever experience the full INDWELLING of the HS, and your prayer life will be constrained.
Is that so? So If I don't "suck in your gut, and make those silly sounds that the Holy Spirit will put into your mouth" I will never experience the full indwelling of the HS, and my prayer life will be constrained?

Show me scripture that says that!




Are you a BRAVE broken Christian or not?
You are joking or not?

[Fiskare]

The stretching of these meanings is so extreme that this post does not even deserve a response. The twisting and ignoring of plain words is so far from common sense that the arguments defeat themselves. Nuff said.
Your challenge will go ignored by me... If you do not believe the plain words of Jesus and Paul.... what hope have we to convince you?
Why don't pentes everwant to discuss theology?

Didas...I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but please, try reading the Bible exegetically. Rather than interpret (cast or ascribe a meaning on to it) try putting what you have been led to believe about it aside and pull the text apart, for yourself, in depth.

The point I am making is simple-

a) No where does the Bible say that the gift of languages is given for private prayer. The text you cite is taught in the context of public worship. It's not an appraisal of the usage of tongues, but a caution against the abuse of the gift in public worship.

b) No where does the Bible say the gift of languages is not an actual language. "Tongues" means "languages", not gibberish. There is a difference. Look it up yourself if you don't believe me. Example- German is a language. It contains syntax and meaning. Repetition of a syllable or three over and over is not a language. By definition, that would be gibberish (look it up!), and even if it feels good, it still doesn't fit the Biblical criteria.

c) The Bible describes what the gift sounds like- read Acts 2, and even check out the first council in Jerusalem (Acts 15, verse 8 in particular)

So, excuse those of us that see it this way of being a little dismayed when we see people coaching someone into speaking in tongues the modern way!

I was dissapointed to see the usual pente response, I must admit. However, to your credit, you didn't give the usual "you're a pharisee, saducee, wouldn't see and couldn't see" that these "spirit filled" people usually do.

I look for the fruit of the Spirit before the gifts (1 Cor 13), because those charisms help get you to heaven.

The gift of tongues can be faked. Muslim sufis do it. Hindu priests do it. Satanists do it. However, not one of those cults can ever claim to have received the Spirit of God with the authentic gift of languages, that is, speaking a real language fluently and immediately without instruction. None of those cults can claim to have the greater gifts of Faith, Hope and Love. That's the stumbling block for them. All Christians can receive the greater gifts from the Spirit, but not all will or have in the past recieved the lesser gifts. 1 Cor 13.

[Andre]

This is the conclusion I got from reading the Bible, Tongues are a spiritual gift, so you must receive ir from God, I believe you can desire to have it and ask God for it, but He will only give it to you if it's apropriate, not everyone will receive it, you might receive other gifts, but it comes to God to judge what gifts you will receive. I belong to a Baptist church, but I do believe that the Gifts are for today.