Celebrating Halloween

[Dorothea]

My husband and I were weary of having our kids celebrate Halloween with the trick-or-treating and all years ago. We decided about 3 years ago not to celebrate the holiday. It's pagan and really not something we felt we should participate in. I found this letter online and thought it appropriate for this time of year. What are your thoughts?


It is that time of the year when the secular society in which we live is preparing for the festival of Halloween. Because most of us are either newly Orthodox or newly aware of our Orthodoxy, it is absolutely necessary that we carefully examine every aspect of our involvement in the world - it's activities, festivals, associations and societies - in order to discern whether or not these involvements are compatible or incompatible with our holy Orthodox Faith.

This is a difficult task which leads to some pain when we realize that there are popular organizations and activities in which we are unable to participate.

Though our schools, our local community organizations, and all forms of entertainment in television, radio, and the press will share in and capitalize upon the festival of Halloween, it is impossible for Orthodox Christians to participate in this event at any level. The issue involved is simple faithfulness to God and the holy Orthodox Christian Faith. Halloween has its roots in paganism and continues to be a form of idolatry in which Satan, the angel of death is worshipped. As we know, the very foundation of our holy Church is built upon the blood of martyrs who refused under the painful penalties of cruel torture and death to worship, venerate, or pay obeisance in any way to the idols who are Satan's angels. Because of the faithfulness through obedience and self-sacrifice of the holy martyrs, God poured out upon His holy Church abundant Grace and its numbers were increased daily, precisely at a time when one would have expected the threat of persecution to extinguish the flame of faith. But, contrary to the world's understanding, humble faithfulness and obedience to God are the very lifelines of our life in Christ, through Whom we are given true spiritual peace, love, and joy, and participation in the miraculous workings of His Holy Spirit. Therefore the holy Church calls us to faithfulness by our turning away from falsehood toward truth and eternal life.

With regard to our non-participation in the pagan festival of Halloween, we will be strengthened by an understanding of the spiritual danger and history of this anti-Christian feast. The feast of Halloween began in pre-Christian times among the Celtic peoples of Great Britain, Ireland and northern France. These pagan peoples believed that physical life was born from death. Therefore, they celebrated the beginning of the "new year" in the fall (on the eve of October 31 and into the day of November 1), when, as they believed, the season of cold, darkness, decay and death began. A certain deity, whom they called Samhain, was believed by the Celts to be the lord of Death, and it was he whom they honored at their New Year's festival.

There were, from an Orthodox Christian point of view, many dia bolical beliefs and practices associated with this feast which, it will be clear, have endured to our time. On the eve of the New Year's festival, the Druids who were the priests of the Celtic cult, instructed their people to extinguish all hearth fires and lights. On the evening of the festival a huge bonfire built of oak branches, which they believed to be sacred, was ignited. Upon this fire sacrifices of crops, animals, and even human beings, were burned as an offering in order to appease and cajole Samhain, the lord of Death. It was also believed that Samhain, being pleased by their faithful offerings, allowed the souls of the dead to return to homes for a festal visit on this day. It is from this belief that the practice of wandering about in the dark dressed up in costumes imitating ghosts, witches, hobgoblins, fairies, and demons grew up. For the living entered into fellowship and communion with the dead by what was, and still is, a ritual act of imitation, through costume and activity of wandering around in the dark of night, even as the souls of the dead were believed to wander.

The dialogue of "trick or treat" is also an integral part of this system of beliefs and practices. It was believed that the souls of the dead who had entered into the world of darkness, decay, and death, and therefore into total communion with and submission to Samhain the lord of Death, bore the affliction of great hunger on their festal visit. Out of this grew the practice of begging, which was a further ritual enactment and imita tion of what the Celts believed to be the activities of the souls of the dead on their festal visit. Associated with this is the still further implication that if the souls of the dead and their imitators were not appeased with "treats," i.e., offerings, then the wrath and anger of Samhain, whose angels and servants the souls and their imitators had become, would be unleashed through a system of "tricks," or curses.

From an Orthodox Christian point of view, participation in these practices at any level is impossible and idolatrous, a genuine betrayal of our God and our holy Faith. For if we participate in the ritual activity of imitating the dead by dressing up in their attire or by wandering about in the dark, or by begging with them, then we have willfully sought fel lowship with the dead, whose lord is not Samhain as the Celts believed but Satan, the Evil One who stands against God. Further, if we submit to the dialogue of "trick or treat," we make our offering not to innocent children, but rather to Samhain, the lord of Death whom they have come to serve as imitators of the dead, wandering in the dark of night.

There are other practices associated with Halloween which we must stay away from. As was mentioned above, on the eve of the Celtic New Year festival, Druid priests instructed their faithful to extinguish their hearth fires and lights and to gather around the fire of sacrifice to make their offerings to pay homage to the lord of Death. Because this was a sacred fire, it was from this that the fire of the new year was to be taken and the lights and hearth fire rekindled. Out of this arose the practice of the jack o'lantern (in the USA, a pumpkin; in older days other vegetables were used) which was carved in imitation of the dead and used to convey the new light and fire to the home where the lantern was left burning throughout the night. Even the use and display of the jack o'lantern involves celebration of and participation in the pagan festival of death honoring the Celtic god Samhain. Orthodox Christians must in no way share in this Celtic activity, but rather we should counter our inclinations and habits by burning candles to the Saviour and the Most Holy Mother of God and to all the holy saints.

In the ancient Celtic rite divination was also associated with this fes tival. After the fire had died out the Druids examined the remains of the sacrifices in order to foretell, as they believed was possible, the events of the coming year. Since this time the Halloween festival has been the night for participation in all kinds of sorcery, fortune telling, divination, games of chance, and in latter medieval times, Satan worship and witchcraft.

In the days of the early Celtic Church, which was strictly Orthodox, the holy Fathers attempted to counteract this pagan New Year Festival which honored the lord of Death, by establishing the Feast of All Saints on the same day (in the East, the Feast of All Saints is celebrated on the Sunday following Pentecost). As was the custom of the Church, the faith ful Christians attended a Vigil Service in the evening and in the morning a celebration of the Holy Eucharist. It is from this that the term Halloween developed. The word Halloween has its roots in the Old English of "All Hallow's Even," i.e., the eve commemorating all those who were hallowed (sanctified), i.e., Halloween. The people who had remained pagan and therefore anti-Christian and whose paganism had become deeply intertwined with the occult, Satanism, and magic, reacted to the Church's attempt to supplant their festival by increased fervor on this evening. In the early middle ages, Halloween became the supreme and central feast of the occult, a night and day upon which acts of witch craft, demonism, sorcery, and Satanism of all kinds were practiced.

Many of these practices involved desecration and mockery of Christian practices and beliefs. Costumes of skeletons developed as a mockery of the Church's reverence for holy relics; holy things were stolen, such as crosses and the Reserved Sacrament, and used in perverse and sacrile gious ways. The practice of begging became a system of persecution designed to harass Christians who were, by their beliefs, unable to participate by making offerings to those who served the lord of Death. The Western Church's attempt to supplant this pagan festival with the Feast of All Saints failed.

The analogy of Halloween in ancient Russia was Navy Dien (old Slavonic for "the dead" was "nav") which was also called Radunitsa and celebrated in the spring. To supplant it the Eastern Church connected this feast with Pascha and appointed it to be celebrated on Tuesday of the Saint Thomas' week (the second week after Pascha). The Church also changed the name of the feast into Radonitsa, from Russian "radost" joy. Joy of Pascha and of the resurrection from the dead of all of mankind after Jesus Christ. Gradually Radonitsa yielded to Pascha its importance and became less popular in general, but many dark and pagan practices and habits of some old feasts of Russian paganism (Semik, Kupalo, Rusalia and some aspects of the Maslennitsa) survived till the beginning of our century. Now they are gone forever, but the atheist authorities used to try to revive them. We can also recall the example of another "harmless" feast - May 1, proclaimed "the international worker's day." That was a simple renaming of a very old satanic feast of Walpurgis Night (night of April 30 into the day of May 1) - the great yearly demonic Sabbath during which all the participants united in "a fellowship of Satan."

These contemporary Halloween practices have their roots in paganism, idolatry, and Satan worship. How then did something that is so obviously contradictory to the holy Orthodox Faith gain acceptance among Christian people?

The answer to this question is: spiritual apathy and listlessness, which are the spiritual roots of atheism and the turning away from God. In today's society one is continually urged to disregard the spiritual roots and origins of secular practices under the guise that the outward customs, practices and forms are cute, fun, entertaining, and harmless. Behind this attitude lies the dogma of atheism, which denies the existence of both God and Satan and can therefore conclude that these activities, despite their obvious pagan and idolatrous origin, are harmless and of no consequence.

The holy Church must stand against this because we are taught by Christ that God stands in judgment over everything we do and believe, and that our actions are either for God or against God. Therefore, the customs of Halloween are not innocent practices with no relationship to the spiritual world. But rather they are demonic practices, precisely as an examination of their origins proves.

Evil spirits do exist. The demons do exist. Christ came into the world so that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the Devil (Heb. 2:12). It is imperative for us to realize as Christians that our greatest foe is the Evil One who inspires nations and individuals to sin against mankind, and who prevents them from coming to a knowledge of the truth. Unless we realize that Satan is our real enemy, we can never hope for spiritual progress for our lives. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places (Eph.6:12).

Today we witness a revival of satanistic cults; we hear of a satanic service conducted on Halloween night; everywhere Satan reaches out to ensnare as many innocent people as possible. The newsstands are filled with material on spiritualism, supernatural phenomena, seances, prophecies, and all sorts of demonically inspired works.

It is undoubtedly an act of Divine Providence that Saint John of Kronstadt, that saintly physician of souls and bodies, should have his feast day on the very day of Halloween, a day which the world dedicated to the destroyer, corrupter, and deceiver of humanity. God has provided us with this powerful counterpoise and weapon against the snares of Satan, and we should take full advantage of this gift, for truly "Wondrous is God in His saints."

http://www.holycross-hermitage.com/pages/Orthodox_Life/halloween.htm

[JustinHesychast]

It's pagan and really not something we felt we should participate in.

Still reading the big long letter, but I have to point out (which I may change my mind after the letter, but I doubt it), that Halloween is of pagan origin, sure. But... what about Easter? Christmas? Will your children no longer go Easter-egg hunting and get visits from the Easter bunny?

[Thekla]

please, I don't mean to offend .... I've read this article before. Much of what it states does not jive with scholarship on the subject of pagan Ireland.

For example, Samhain is a month name; its etymology is thought to mean "summer's end" (from samhdra, summer and ain, end). Among reputable sources, there is no mention of any such deity name (nor any such worship of a "death god").

Further, the habit of begging (it used to be called beggars night) is more likely of English origin -- from the habit of the poor to go begging after the harvest, later begging for "soul cakes", and agrarian workers to go 'mumming' (in costume, going to houses and performing mime-plays with story/music accompaniment in voluntary exchange for food or money).

Most of ancient Irish pagan practice is unknown; ogham writing only exists on stone, and thus the only written record was left by bored copy-monks and is quite spotty.

I have no objection to not celebrating Halloween, (its certainly much nastier than when I was a kid) -- but I think it should be rejected on "reliable" research or calendar differences between the east and west celebrations of All-Saints.

[JustinHesychast]

OK, I read it. It makes some good points, but most if it is completely bogus. Look at the etymology for Jeez, gee, etc. Should we stop saying those? Not an accurate comparison, but still.

Halloween USED to mean those things. Now it is about having fun and getting candy, and maybe getting scared at a Haunted House, which is always a thrill. I am not directing this at you, mind you, but this is yet another view that gives Christianity a bad name. It doesn't matter what Halloween WAS. What matters is what it IS. And, if you're like the majority of people, Halloween is about having a good time.

[Sacrum Silentium]

The Orthodox Hieromonk who lived in my hometown never, ever celebrated Halloween. I didn't understand that as a child, but now I do.

I'm going to place an icon with a candle burning in front of it on my front porch this year, to replace the jack-o-lantern. Then, if kids want some candy that's good and well, but it won't be for the spirit of Halloween. It will be a little gift of giving and a token of the prayers of all the Saints.

[Thekla]

http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/CeltPan.html

here is (IIRC) a fairly reliable list of Celtic deity names. Note that there were very few "generally recognized" deities among the Celts; many of these were regional. Their names are usually retained as 'place-names'
(see TF O'Rahilly's geographical survey of Ireland -- no Samhain there either).

[JustinHesychast]

Halloween is fun. It's origins may be evil, but that doesn't make it evil now unless you make it evil. I, like most people, make a fun Halloween. I am dressing up as a Fat Barmaid and having fun. :D

[Dorothea]

please, I don't mean to offend .... I've read this article before. Much of what it states does not jive with scholarship on the subject of pagan Ireland.

For example, Samhain is a month name; its etymology is thought to mean "summer's end" (from samhdra, summer and ain, end). Among reputable sources, there is no mention of any such deity name (nor any such worship of a "death god").

Further, the habit of begging (it used to be called beggars night) is more likely of English origin -- from the habit of the poor to go begging after the harvest, later begging for "soul cakes", and agrarian workers to go 'mumming' (in costume, going to houses and performing mime-plays with story/music accompaniment in voluntary exchange for food or money).

Most of ancient Irish pagan practice is unknown; ogham writing only exists on stone, and thus the only written record was left by bored copy-monks and is quite spotty.

I have no objection to not celebrating Halloween, (its certainly much nastier than when I was a kid) -- but I think it should be rejected on "reliable" research or calendar differences between the east and west celebrations of All-Saints.
I've read other articles on Halloween that were pretty much the same, and they were from an Orthodox viewpoint. My husband and I even talked with our priest back in WA when we lived there about not celebrating it. He said it would probably be better not to participate in it.

[Dorothea]

The Orthodox Hieromonk who lived in my hometown never, ever celebrated Halloween. I didn't understand that as a child, but now I do.

I'm going to place an icon with a candle burning in front of it on my front porch this year, to replace the jack-o-lantern. Then, if kids want some candy that's good and well, but it won't be for the spirit of Halloween. It will be a little gift of giving and a token of the prayers of all the Saints.

Yes, I didn't know about St. John's feast day then. I will have to light a candle that night for him as well. :)

[Matrona]

I don't think there's anything wrong with Halloween. When I was a kid, I loved it because it helped demythologize "things that go bump in the night". There are no ghosts, that's just the kid next door under a sheet - that's not a scary devil, it's just Mr. Down-The-Street with plastic horns on his head, and he's giving out candy. Now, I like it because it gives me a chance to wear something ridiculous in public without anyone giving a darn.

[TrueHope]

I, personally ahve mixed views on Halloween, and since we no longer live in the States, it is no longer an issue. However, I do remember this very well. One year, when my oldest was in the 2nd Grade, she had a Spanish teacher, who was really the sweetest thing. She told me that she refused to go to school that day, (Oct.31) Because it is the day of the dead, and she was going to stay in safe from the evil spirits that would invade the air. I was like....SHOCK! And she was dead serious!!!!!

Me, I was not even into Faith or anything, so it hit me so left field.

That's all I have to share on the subject...as lame as that was! lol.

[Dorothea]

I have the belief of this bishop in this article. People nowadays have made it ok. I still don't think it's ok. Obviously many don't agree with me.

[paleodoxy]

Actually, we have traditionally been against Halloween (until now). I always assumed it had a pagan, secular origin. Until my SF told me about St. Barbara's day and some of the ancient practices in Lebanon and other parts of the Orthodox world where scary costumes actually had a point to them. (I'm not talking about ghosts/goblins/witches, etc.) So...I will just say that we are reconsidering.

Now, as far as letting my kids get candy from total strangers - that I am not inclined to do.

[OnTheWay]

Christmas and Easter have just as many pagan roots has Halloween does. Christmas replaced the pagan Yule holiday and many aspects of Easter revolve around Roman fertility goddess. Hence things like the rabbit and the egg are associated with it.
Samhain (pronouced Sow-wen) certainly has its roots in the pre-Christian religion of the Celts. Halloween itself comes from All Saints day (all hollow's eve became Halloween). Certain harmless Samhain customs were carried over by the Irish, such as carving veggies and putting candles inside them. Though the actual Samhain custom would have involved turnups, the Irish in the US just discovered pumpkins were more ideal for this purpose.
The larger issue is, just like other holidays that are celebrated in the secular world, Halloween is exactly what you make it. It certainly can be taken to a dark place, but equally so it can be a fun time for kids to dress up as football players and bob for apples. Most of the anti-Halloween propaganda is the left overs of the 80's "satanic scare" and should be treated with as much creditibility as the infant and virgin sacrafice bunk of the same era.

[Thekla]

I have the belief of this bishop in this article. People nowadays have made it ok. I still don't think it's ok. Obviously many don't agree with me.
in my case, I do not have a disagreement with you or your bishop. Nor do I object to the decision to "not observe" Halloween. Rather, I disagree with some of the information that the article uses to support the conclusion; ie I have a problem with misinformation.

I am distressed by the misinformation from other sources, for example, that the Orthodox are not Christian -- it is either propaganda or folklore, depending on the source. In all fairness, I
likewise have an obligation to identify any other misinformation that I've come across.

Several of the "facts" stated in this article are not, to my knowledge, supported by scholarly or academic sources on the subject of the pagan origins of Halloween. Again, there was no god Samhain, the "lord of death". Should reliable sources be found to support this, they should be cited.

(Sources, for ex, found reliable by academic institutions, such as this:
http://www.celt.dias.ie/english/ Further research may be done, for ex, here: http://www.ucc.ie/celt/ )

The roots of folk practices can be remarkably hard to trace, as they tend to shift over time and place. (For ex., the variations in popular ballads collected by FJ Childs, published in the Child Ballads) The further they drift from their origin, the greater the potential for variance from the original practice, and the more the original practice may be clouded by mythologised or rationalised explanation of the origin.

More importantly -- and a great concern of mine -- repeating misinformation as fact undermines the credibility of the source. If we (Orthodox) are found to be repeating (uncritically examined) "blarney" on this or any issue, then much of what we say may rightly be dismissed as "blarney", too.

This latter danger is too important for me to just "dismiss" my concerns with the OP essay.

EDIT: a site with a fairly reliable list (per memory, seems to be based on extant literary sources) of Celtic deities http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/CeltPan.html

[Dorothea]

Thekla, I understand your wanting to clear up misinformation. Wasn't this article from a bishop at Holy Cross? But anyhow, I can look up some other sites and the information will be close to the same, that we as Orthodox shouldn't really be celebrating Halloween. As far as Christmas and Pascha. We're celebrating them with regards to Christ, not the commercialized, pagan side of it, if you will. My priest back in WA even told me he wasn't crazy about people celebrating the Santa Claus side of Christmas.

[ClementofRome]

Well, we do not "celebrate" anything on 10/31....but since our neighborhood is ground zero for hoards of trick-or-treaters from all over the county, we have friends over for pizza and beer and have a fine time watching all of the colorfully dressed children parading around the neighborhood. We give candy to them and it is all in simple fun. The local volunteer fire dept comes through with their sirens blaring and their lights flashing and the children love that part.

If the event ever had any meaning other than an excuse to dress up in costumes (which we do not do) and eat candy, then it certainly has no more meaning than that today.

For us anyway.

I must add that the "fundigelical" family across the street (they have 3 boys between 5-10 yo), turn off all of their lights and shut their curtains. I suppose that they must make their statement.

[TrueHope]

[quote=OnTheWay;39943677]Christmas and Easter have just as many pagan roots has Halloween does. Christmas replaced the pagan Yule holiday and many aspects of Easter revolve around Roman fertility goddess. Hence things like the rabbit and the egg are associated with it. Yes, the red egg, symbolizes fertility. I have always questioned this on Pascha here, as it is tradition to color the eggs red. However, they claim that the red symbolizes Christ's blood. Through the years many traditions have changed meaning.

For Christmas, I decorate the tree with icons and angels. The top, I will place Mary and Jesus.

[Dorothea]

Here's another article by Archbishop Kyrill, from the Orthodox Christian Information Center.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/halloween.aspx

Another one on questions about Halloween and how Orthodox Christians celebrate an alternative way.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=12953.15;wap2

[Thekla]

Here's another article by Archbishop Kyrill, from the Orthodox Christian Information Center.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/halloween.aspx

Another one on questions about Halloween and how Orthodox Christians celebrate an alternative way.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=12953.15;wap2
you can check this against the link in my last post (edited to include) a list of known Celtic god names. The word Samhain can be entered into the online Celtic text source; if entered into the School of Celtic Studies page, it will largely bring up journal entries published in Nov.
(so I don't recommend it there :) ) Again, the article contains extensive misinformation.

As for mention that the ancient Irish believed that death was the 'beginning' of life", and worshipped a death god, that sounds more like 17th century British propaganda (the Irish had tails, were sometimes cannibalistic, only poverty could keep them "in line", largely of brutish character, etc)

As for the ancient Irish culture, I do find it amusing that bardic satire was considered a "martial art"; one king was maimed, another driven mad by satire. Maybe thats why poets didn't (don't ?) pay tax in Ireland :)

Finally, The Tain is considered one of the greatest of the Irish Epics (basically about "cattle rustling" ;)) and contains reference to "Mi na Samhna", which in this tale is when the warrior goddess Scathach lifts her shield, and the division between the spiritual and physical world is relaxed. Beltaine, around the Vernal Equinox is the other "fire festival". It is said that at the coming of St. Patrick, the druids warned that should he be allowed to light his bonfire on this day, the fire that Patrick lit (Christianity) would become the new light of Ireland. Indeed, they were right . In fact the conversion of Ireland was miraculous; it is said that even non-converted pagan kings financially supported the building of monasterys. There was only one martyr; St. Patrick's charioteer, St. Oran).

The Tain is available online here: http://www.ucc.ie/celt/transpage.html (The Tain Bo Cuailgne)

[Philothei]

Dorothea I have one question for you and your priest?

Do you have and Egg hunt or a Santa coming at Christmas at your parish?

Philothei

[Dorothea]

Dorothea I have one question for you and your priest?

Do you have and Egg hunt or a Santa coming at Christmas at your parish?

Philothei
I don't think there's an official stance on the Santa or Easter Egg hunt, or even the Halloween, in the Orthodox Church. I just don't choose to celebrate Halloween. There was no Santa visit at the last two parishes I was part of. I don't know about here. Haven't been here during Christmas yet. The last parish and the one before did do egg hunts, but no Easter bunny. It was done after the Agape service, for which my kids participated in. I just think it seems more dark halloween, than the other holidays through the pagan background. I know Thekla says it's not that bad. I just don't think it's a good holiday to celebrate, especially when you see kids going around with blood on them and such.

[Philothei]

I do not fully "celebrate" it either since it does scares me because people get ugly that night and like others do not like to get candy from strangers etc....But to single out Halloween is a bit too much when in our churches we "allow" traditions such as Santa and the Easter hunt Bunny....

And lets be honest most of us do not really mind too much these traditions. In Greece the Church always reminds its faithful not to participate in Apokreo festivities like the carnival each year but .... most do. Some only dress up their kids some dress up and go to ball masque parties. It is pagan it comes from an ancient greek tradtion of the god of wine Dionysius.... etc. I do not believe dressing up at apokreo like all children did made me a "worse Christian" than others.

I think what makes me personally mad with Halloween is that people go overboard with dressing with awefull costumes... Starting this year we will only do what Clem is doing open the door give out candy and leave it to that.... We will carve a pumpkin like we always do every year....because if i do not I think it is worse as my daughter will always remeber I did not and that would triger more her curiocity to find out why.IMO.




God bless,
Philothei

[TrueHope]

. In Greece the Church always reminds its faithful not to participate in Apokreo festivities like the carnival each year but .... most do. Some only dress up their kids some dress up and go to ball masque parties. It is pagan it comes from an ancient greek tradtion of the god of wine Dionysius.... etc. I do not believe dressing up at apokreo like all children did made me a "worse Christian" than others.

From the first year I was here, and did not have a clue to the language or the reason for Apocreas, I always said...Look everyone, it's the sin time before the fast!!! That saying came to be, when for 3 weeks, everywhere we went were half nakid Brazilian dancers everywhere.....even in Carrefour....which shocked me quite a bit! (Carrefore is comparative to Walmart or Target)

So, I got a kick out of your post Philothei! I totally got it!

[Philothei]

half nakid Brazilian dancers

i did not know that Carfour had some of those....Good think we never saw them... while in Greece I would have droped my groceries and go.....It is enought they are all over the TV ....
yeah that is the real reason behind not going to Patras...gross....

Here about the carnival

http://www.greektourism.gr/pages.php?pageID=389&langID=2

God bless,
Philothei

[Dorothea]

I do not fully "celebrate" it either since it does scares me because people get ugly that night and like others do not like to get candy from strangers etc....But to single out Halloween is a bit too much when in our churches we "allow" traditions such as Santa and the Easter hunt Bunny....

And lets be honest most of us do not really mind too much these traditions. In Greece the Church always reminds its faithful not to participate in Apokreo festivities like the carnival each year but .... most do. Some only dress up their kids some dress up and go to ball masque parties. It is pagan it comes from an ancient greek tradtion of the god of wine Dionysius.... etc. I do not believe dressing up at apokreo like all children did made me a "worse Christian" than others.

I think what makes me personally mad with Halloween is that people go overboard with dressing with awefull costumes... Starting this year we will only do what Clem is doing open the door give out candy and leave it to that.... We will carve a pumpkin like we always do every year....because if i do not I think it is worse as my daughter will always remeber I did not and that would triger more her curiocity to find out why.IMO.




God bless,
Philothei

I think the reason why I take more offense to Halloween than Santa or the Easter Bunny (which we've never had visit our house since the boys were born...never got into that...regarding the Easter Bunny), is that Halloween has all kinds of dark and evil stuff like I said, fake blood on people, animals need to be in that night because the Satan worshippers love to steal your pets that night, especially cats, and mutilate them, which happen to a friend of mine's cat when I was in my senior year of high school. All the pictures hanging of skeletons, tombstones. I mean, obviously all of this isn't pretty or give a positive feeling to the holiday. This is why I don't do it.

I also don't think I'm better than anybody else just because I choose not to participate. My nieces trick or treat each year. My sister and I grew up trick-or-treating. It was a decision my hubs and I just felt best if we skipped Halloween, and my kids don't seem to care.

[MoNiCa4316]

I used to celebrate Halloween, but I don't think I will this year. The reason for me is fairly simple. I don't like the imagery...I look around at all the kids dressed as witches and devils and ghosts, and at all the tombstone/skeleton/etc decorations...and I just don't feel comfortable with it. If I had a child, I wouldn't want them to dress up as a servant of the Enemy.....the other thing that Halloween does is it encourages the rather silly idea that the devil is some red monster with horns, which just makes him seem even less real to people.

I know there are Christians who don't feel uncomfortable with it, and I don't think that makes them 'worse'...I just find the whole holiday pretty ridiculous.

[Thekla]

I think the reason why I take more offense to Halloween than Santa or the Easter Bunny (which we've never had visit our house since the boys were born...never got into that...regarding the Easter Bunny), is that Halloween has all kinds of dark and evil stuff like I said, fake blood on people, animals need to be in that night because the Satan worshippers love to steal your pets that night, especially cats, and mutilate them, which happen to a friend of mine's cat when I was in my senior year of high school. All the pictures hanging of skeletons, tombstones. I mean, obviously all of this isn't pretty or give a positive feeling to the holiday. This is why I don't do it.

I also don't think I'm better than anybody else just because I choose not to participate. My nieces trick or treat each year. My sister and I grew up trick-or-treating. It was a decision my hubs and I just felt best if we skipped Halloween, and my kids don't seem to care.

I fully agree with that ! I don't know why its become such an ugly celebration (it wasn't that way when I was a kid). I think this is a reflection of the 'downhill trend' (away from Christianity) in our society. We don't need to blame the 'darkness' of this, or anything else on some ancient culture; this darkness is our own :(

[Dorothea]

I fully agree with that ! I don't know why its become such an ugly celebration (it wasn't that way when I was a kid). I think this is a reflection of the 'downhill trend' (away from Christianity) in our society. We don't need to blame the 'darkness' of this, or anything else on some ancient culture; this darkness is our own :(

Yes, I agree. :sigh:

[MoNiCa4316]

I agree too...:( But instead of bringing even more darkness into the world, we should seek to bring light. May the Lord help us do that..may He fill our dark hearts with light and let us shine as "stars in this universe" for His glory.

[Philothei]

And I really believe that the whole ugliness comes from the commercialization of it. Every year i notice more and more gore... Iguess it sells good with the teenagers who are easily drawn to all the "gothic" stuff... and the black/white witchcraft.

did anyone see this one?

Now this celebration "offends" the witches too .... well, it would not if they did not try to "witness" through it. and you cannot stop the stores from selling witches constumes.... IMO.


PUYALLUP - "Let them have their 30 minutes of dressing goofy and having candy," said Silas Macon on the grounds of Puyallup's Maplewood Elementary School Wednesday afternoon.
He'd just learned the grade school tradition of a party and parade in costume during the last half-hour of class before Halloween night won't happen this year in the Puyallup School District for his two daughters.
The superintendent has cancelled all Halloween activities.
A letter sent home to parents Wednesday states there will be no observance of Halloween in the entire school district.
"We really want to make sure we're using all of our time in the best interest of our students," explained Puyallup School District spokesperson Karen Hansen.
Hansen says the superintendent made the decision for three primary reasons. First, Halloween parties and parades waste valuable classroom time. In addition some families can't afford costumes.
It's the third reason some Puyallup parents are struggling with.
The district says Halloween celebrations and children dressed in Halloween costumes might be offensive to real witches.
"Witches with pointy noses and things like that are not respective symbols of the Wiccan religion and so we want to be respectful of that," said Hansen.
The Wiccan, or Pagan, religion is growing in the U.S. and there are Wiccan groups in Puyallup.
Number eight on the district's guidelines related to holidays and celebrations reads as follows: "Use of derogatory stereotypes is prohibited, such as the traditional image of a witch, which is offensive to members of the Wiccan religion."
"I do lots of things that are not revolving around wearing a black outfit and stirring a cauldron," said Wiccan Priestess Cheryl Sulyma-Masson in an interview with ABC News where she explained that Wiccans (or Pagan Clergy) celebrate nature, not Satan.
A Puyallup School District internal email dating from October 2000 warns that "the Wiccan religion is a bona fide religion under the law, and its followers are entitled to all the protections afforded more mainstream religions. Building administrators should not tolerate such inappropriate stereotyping (images such as Witches on flying brooms, stirring cauldrons, casting spells, or with long noses and pointed hats) and instead address them as you would hurtful stereotypes of any other minority."
2004, however, is the first year that the superintendent decided to cite that concern, along with loss of classroom study time and protection for students who can't afford costumes, as motivation for canceling in-school Halloween activities.
"They're so worried about being politically correct anymore that we're not allowed to do much of anything," said parent Tonya Reynolds whose daughter attends Maplewood Elementary.
"If you don't want costumes, call it a harvest party," said parent Loni Andrews who promises to challenge the ruling at the next school board meeting. "We don't have to take out complete Halloween. We could still do something for our children."
To say the policy put families in an uproar is an understatement. It's tradition at Maplewood Elementary for the kids to parade their costumes through each of the classrooms.
"The younger children, to come in in their little butterfly costumes or their little clown costumes to me, it's just part of childhood," adds parent Marilyn McCoy.
And the kids' reaction? "Oh they're devastated," says parent Karen Harmes. "They're so disappointed, this is a big deal for them."
"Yeah it does bother me because I would really like to go around and dress up," said Maplewood 6th grader Grace Macon.
"I think it's terrible," added Silas Macon. "I think it just kind of takes away from the little stuff they get to do that's fun at school."
Parents are worried about Halloween, or what's now called Harvest Celebration, and about other holidays.
"I'm afraid next it will be St Patrick's Day," says parent Katie McCoy. "Can we not wear green? Can I not send cupcakes for my baby's birthday? Where does it end? That is my question."
So it's both class time, and respect for real witches. "It's a little bit of both," said Hansen of the study time and religious reasons for canceling Halloween activities. "I don't think you can balance respect with instructional time and we would always be looking to do both. We want to make sure our students are respectful of all religions and all cultures. Hansen also said that the PTA and teachers have been notified that they can hold parties or other Halloween events after the school day is over. Classroom time, however, will not be used for Halloween celebrations. Hansen says concerns about other holidays and parties held in school will be decided on a case-by-case basis. Parents plan to appeal this Halloween ban at the School Board meeting Monday night. But the District says its decision is final.


http://www.komotv.com/news/archive/4136266.html


God bless,
Philothei

[Andrew21091]

I don't think there's an official stance on the Santa

Santa is a distressing, blasphemous caricature of one of God's greatest saints, St. Nicholas Wonderworker of Mira. If I ever have kids, I won't do the Santa thing with them. Santa was introduced by the West. With Santa, I think it takes away the true meaning of the Nativity. The West's view of Christmas is all about material gifts when you should be seeking spiritual gifts. Many people waste so much time with shopping when they should focus more on prayer and fasting.

Also my view on Halloween is that we shouldn't celebrate it. Sure, it might just be fun and games for children, but it shouldn't be celebrated because it is a pagan holiday.

[repentant]

Great amd appopriate letter, and as usually the naysayers must come out and find every little way imagineable to defend satans work and trickery.."well it's not what it origianally was"..what do you think he wants you to think?

[repentant]

Christmas and Easter have just as many pagan roots has Halloween does. Christmas replaced the pagan Yule holiday and many aspects of Easter revolve around Roman fertility goddess. Hence things like the rabbit and the egg are associated with it.
Samhain (pronouced Sow-wen) certainly has its roots in the pre-Christian religion of the Celts. Halloween itself comes from All Saints day (all hollow's eve became Halloween). Certain harmless Samhain customs were carried over by the Irish, such as carving veggies and putting candles inside them. Though the actual Samhain custom would have involved turnups, the Irish in the US just discovered pumpkins were more ideal for this purpose.
The larger issue is, just like other holidays that are celebrated in the secular world, Halloween is exactly what you make it. It certainly can be taken to a dark place, but equally so it can be a fun time for kids to dress up as football players and bob for apples. Most of the anti-Halloween propaganda is the left overs of the 80's "satanic scare" and should be treated with as much creditibility as the infant and virgin sacrafice bunk of the same era.

Go peddle this somewhere else..

[rainbowbright]

If it weren't for my five year-old son asking if it's halloween yet in January, we wouldn't paricipate at all, but the fact of the matter is it's his absolute favorite time of year; how could he not like it? He gets to dress up and go outside and collect candybars and those candybars last him several hours afterwards. We will only let him get dressed up as Bob the builder or a ninja turtle or something that doesn't portray evil. We have always thought of Halloween originating from Christian because it is All Saints eve.

[Dorothea]

I must be a mean mom because how my oldest felt about dressing up and going trick-or-treating, which he only did once around 2-3 years old and didn't remember (he did dress up and give out candy when he was around 5), it was irrelevant to my hubby and I. We made the decision for the best of our family. And our kids can dress up any time they want, any day of the year. It doesn't have to be for Halloween.

eta: My oldest didn't seem to care that we decided not to have him trick-or-treat. But again, this was a personal decision for us. I don't judge anyone who decides to celebrate it.

[repentant]

Yes kids control the household..oy...

[cassc]

If it weren't for my five year-old son asking if it's Halloween yet in January, we wouldn't participate at all, but the fact of the matter is it's his absolute favorite time of year; how could he not like it? He gets to dress up and go outside and collect candy bars and those candy bars last him several hours afterwards. We will only let him get dressed up as Bob the builder or a ninja turtle or something that doesn't portray evil. We have always thought of Halloween originating from Christian because it is All Saints eve.

My Priest has always asked that we don't wear horror/demonic costumes on Halloween. When he was new to the parish he also tried to hold a positive costume party on the 31st to keep kids away from the general mayhem but it never really took off. I grew up with two stories regarding Halloween- that it was a night to dress up in scary costumes to scare the evil spirits away or to camouflage yourself against them on the night when they roam the earth. I guess neither of those stories have any historical basis but from that perspective it did not seem to be that bad... Anyway I have begun to lean away from the calibration of Halloween (I used to really enjoy it) and I was wondering what the parents out their did since all the kids I know would be devastated if they were not allowed to participate... I guess some of you are lucky that it doesn't bother your kids, I would think it would be hard to keep your kids inside while the streets are full of kids laughing and playing :( I new a family very into organic everything. They had a few families near by that they would give special organic snacks to and only bring their son to those predetermined houses... related but not I guess- sorry guys.

[Dorothea]

My Priest has always asked that we don't wear horror/demonic costumes on Halloween. When he was new to the parish he also tried to hold a positive costume party on the 31st to keep kids away from the general mayhem but it never really took off. I grew up with two stories regarding Halloween- that it was a night to dress up in scary costumes to scare the evil spirits away or to camouflage yourself against them on the night when they roam the earth. I guess neither of those stories have any historical basis but from that perspective it did not seem to be that bad... Anyway I have begun to lean away from the calibration of Halloween (I used to really enjoy it) and I was wondering what the parents out their did since all the kids I know would be devastated if they were not allowed to participate... I guess some of you are lucky that it doesn't bother your kids, I would think it would be hard to keep your kids inside while the streets are full of kids laughing and playing :( I new a family very into organic everything. They had a few families near by that they would give special organic snacks to and only bring their son to those predetermined houses... related but not I guess- sorry guys.
The past couple years, we've taken the kids out to dinner, and it's not crowded that night either. lol And they don't see anything to miss. :)

[Thekla]

OK, to be honest this misatribution of the origins of Halloween was really bugging me. Its been a good 25 years since I've studied Irish mythology, and contemplated a graduate degree in folklore/culture studies or medieval studies (still listen to the music though :thumbsup:).

As I did more internet research (my remaining books on early Christian Ireland, myth, etc are in a box somewhere)most of the sites (often neo-pagan) that held to this version of "Halloween origin" were citing (when citations were given) J. Frazer (The Golden Bough).

If you haven't met Mr. Frazer, he taught at university in the UK, and was an "armchair ethnologist/anthropologist" with a fatal twist. He neglected much field research, mixed the eras of reported practices, and had an agenda. He was, at best, an agnostic who was out to prove that Christianity was an "invented religion", culling its belief and practice from pagan belief systems and slapping a new deity name on them.

To this end, he created a theory (the fisher king ) that all pagan religions had a male king/deity on earth who was ritually killed in one season and who magically returned, whole, in another. And he forced what he "found" in the writings of others to fit this theory. Its never been proven because it was essentially bunk. What he did do was leave a mishmash of unsourced "storytelling" that had a major influence on 20th century Europe. One he influenced, Robert Graves, took Frazers "theory" back further to a goddess through whom the male deity gained lineage, and then usurping her position, became the archetype of male deity worship. Graves at one point (IIRC - I can look if you like) claimed to worship this goddess.

These folks are well regarded by the modern pagan/wiccans as far as my research goes. Frankly, the WHOLE thing turns my stomach. To follow is quoted from Amazon -- its unsourced, but summarizes what I learned on my own long ago through reputable sources (written and in conversation).

The Golden Bough is indeed a seminal work of early anthropology/folklore studies. However it's no longer held in high esteem in these fields, and for good reason. The major problem with Frazer is his source use. He took citations grossly out of context and made no effort to determine how reliable they were.Moreoever he took myth literally, assuming that it was a distorted memory of actual events. If Pagan myths involved kings dying, then once upon a time Pagans must really have sacrificed their kings. By this 'logic', Christianity used to involve ritual cannibalism, since during the Eucharist believers eat the blood and body of Christ.
The holiday information is extremely poor, too. Like many 19th century folklorists, Frazer assumed that any "pagan-looking" customs were indeed pre-Christian. He did *no* research in the history of the holidays, and as a result the Golden Bough contains grievous amounts of misinformation. (I say this as a medievalist who's done significant amounts of research myself.)
For example, Frazer was responsible for the tenacious myth that Halloween is a Christianized version of the Celtic Samhain, introduced by the Celtic Church. If you check early Irish martyrologies, you'll find that the Celtic Church actually celebrated All Saints in April, not on Samhain. The October 31st date came from England and/or Germany, not the Celtic Church, making the connection between Samhain and Halloween somewhat obscure. Frazer assumes that Christmas trees are an ancient Pagan custom, when any historical research would reveal that the earliest mention of this custom comes from 16th century Germany.
The Golden Bough has had a tremendous impact on Neo-Paganism and many of the theories are inspiring. For that, for its poetry, I give it credit. But it's not a reliable work on Pagan history

[Dorothea]

Interesting info, Thekla. :)

[Philothei]

OK, to be honest this misatribution of the origins of Halloween was really bugging me. Its been a good 25 years since I've studied Irish mythology, and contemplated a graduate degree in folklore/culture studies or medieval studies (still listen to the music though :thumbsup:).

As I did more internet research (my remaining books on early Christian Ireland, myth, etc are in a box somewhere)most of the sites (often neo-pagan) that held to this version of "Halloween origin" were citing (when citations were given) J. Frazer (The Golden Bough).

If you haven't met Mr. Frazer, he taught at university in the UK, and was an "armchair ethnologist/anthropologist" with a fatal twist. He neglected much field research, mixed the eras of reported practices, and had an agenda. He was, at best, an agnostic who was out to prove that Christianity was an "invented religion", culling its belief and practice from pagan belief systems and slapping a new deity name on them.

To this end, he created a theory (the fisher king ) that all pagan religions had a male king/deity on earth who was ritually killed in one season and who magically returned, whole, in another. And he forced what he "found" in the writings of others to fit this theory. Its never been proven because it was essentially bunk. What he did do was leave a mishmash of unsourced "storytelling" that had a major influence on 20th century Europe. One he influenced, Robert Graves, took Frazers "theory" back further to a goddess through whom the male deity gained lineage, and then usurping her position, became the archetype of male deity worship. Graves at one point (IIRC - I can look if you like) claimed to worship this goddess.

These folks are well regarded by the modern pagan/wiccans as far as my research goes. Frankly, the WHOLE thing turns my stomach. To follow is quoted from Amazon -- its unsourced, but summarizes what I learned on my own long ago through reputable sources (written and in conversation).
I knew that Christmas trees are a German Christmas custom symbolizing the tree of life who is Christ. ...aha... internet information is never too reliable anyways especially the wikis ...they are so bad....I do not trust anything I read no more if I do not cross reference with another valid source...

So, Halloween is okay but today's practice is for the birds... with all the gore and gouls I will still say I will "unavailable" for celebrating that evening....


God bless,
Philothei

[Theophorus]

I
So, Halloween is okay but today's practice is for the birds... with all the gore and gouls I will still say I will "unavailable" for celebrating that evening....


God bless,
Philothei

I's a celebration of death, demons, and the horrors that men perpetrate on each other.

[Monica, child of God]

I didn't grow up celebrating Halloween mainly because my parents were health nuts. We didn't eat white sugar, flour or chocolate. Since candy is obligatory, Halloween was out but not for religious reasons.

When I was Muslim, celebrating with my young son was out because it is not sunna to celebrate anything but the two Eids. (Birthdays aren't tradtionally Islamic but people do celebrate. Some Muslims will celebrate other holidays.)

Then I became a Protestant Christian and my church community was situated in ground zero for Halloween. It was tons of fun; like a several block long chilren's parade. Since my church family was in full support of it, we started joining in. Then we got a youth pastor from the UK. She was shocked that we celebrated Halloween. She said in the UK it was a much darker celebration with occultish overtones. Our Halloween festivities were much more child friendly but there were always a few houses (not members of our church) that made the children cry from fright.

The youth pastor caused me to really think about what we were doing and why. My family stopped celebrating Halloween and switched to Reformation Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation_Day) festivities :) I am not kidding. I bought a Martin Luther kid's video to watch with my son and we would do some alternative activities. It was fun but he had a hard time every year with not celebrating Halloween.

Then I became Orthodox and I wasn't quite sure what to do with Halloween. It is not connected with our days of remembrance for the dead, so I couldn't Ortho-dize it but I had fewer objections to the Days of the Dead concept. Obviously Reformation Day was now out. So we just continued with our alternative activities. This year though, some friends are throwing a party and taking special pains to make it family friendly with us in mind. They don't know of our long struggle with Halloween and I think they would be sort of put off if I explained it. I am thinking of going out of charity now that my son is older and really, really clear on why witchcraft, fortune telling and themes of murder are not okay to celebrate. I am still thinking about it.

M.

[OnTheWay]

[quote=OnTheWay;39943677]Christmas and Easter have just as many pagan roots has Halloween does. Christmas replaced the pagan Yule holiday and many aspects of Easter revolve around Roman fertility goddess. Hence things like the rabbit and the egg are associated with it. Yes, the red egg, symbolizes fertility. I have always questioned this on Pascha here, as it is tradition to color the eggs red. However, they claim that the red symbolizes Christ's blood. Through the years many traditions have changed meaning.

For Christmas, I decorate the tree with icons and angels. The top, I will place Mary and Jesus.



Is an egg evil because pagans used it to symbolize feritlity? I don't tend to think so. What you put on it aside, the fact you have a Christmas tree is a throw back to pagan Germanic customs.
Halloween is as far removed from the Celtic pagan traditions as a Christmas tree is removed from Yule. Is Halloween about devil worship? Not for 99.9999% of those that take part in Halloween celebrations unless you're arguing that dressing up as Homer Simpson and having a party some how means you're doing it in satan's honor just because it's the 31st of October. Fundamentalism is rarely a good thing.

[OnTheWay]

Go peddle this somewhere else..

Yes, the world needs more idiocy in the form of fundamentalism running around.:doh:

[Hoankan]

I was talking to members of my church yesterday. They are from Bulgaria and Serbia so they didn't know about the origins of Halloween or anything. The general consensus between them was that traditionally Orthodoxy Christianizes the culture, not suplant and that we should put more focus on Christ through the Halloween traditions (we also agreed that we should do that for Christmas and stuff in Japan as well).

So maybe a costume as a saint?