Chalcedonians and Non-Chalcedonians: We Can't Afford to Remain Divided

[SpyridonOCA]

With millions of our people killed at the hands of Islamo-Fascists, we cannot afford to remain divided. The survival of both our church traditions depends on us having a united front against our common enemies. Does this mean we compromise the faith of our fathers? No, and it shouldn't. If they were alive today, those present at Chalcedon, both for and against, would be in tears. Let's do what we can to achieve unity, without creating a syncretic compromise of our faith. May God have mercy on us all.

[minasoliman]

I believe it's because of meddling with imperial politics which lead to our pointless division at Chalcedon that lead to Islamic takeover. Unity is the answer. Unity based on the truth of history and learning from the mistakes of Chalcedon is the answer.

Until then, Islam is our punishment for our continued division.

[SpyridonOCA]

One could assert that it's a division which would not have occurred if both sides had accepted the Creed of Chalcedon. The very purpose if its wording was to create compromise between the Alexandrian and Antiochian traditions. I don't mean to offend you in saying this.

[minasoliman]

One could assert that it's a division which would not have occurred if both sides had accepted the Creed of Chalcedon. The very purpose if its wording was to create compromise between the Alexandrian and Antiochian traditions. I don't mean to offend you in saying this.
No, Chalcedon is not a proper compromise of the Alexandrian and Antiochian schools. That is a deception. It is clearly Antiochian. I think it would have been better off if Leo's legates did not accept the Three Chapters and that the emperor wouldnt' meddle into Church affairs.

God bless.

[SpyridonOCA]

Regardless of how the schism happened and why, we are in need now more than ever for full and final unity. We can't play the blame game forever.

[minasoliman]

Regardless of how the schism happened and why, we are in need now more than ever for full and final unity. We can't play the blame game forever.
That's great. Then don't assume that we have to accept Chalcedon literally. Otherwise, you are inadvertently playing the blame game.

Let's not repeat ourselves here. Be realistic, read the dialogues, and be empathic for once.

[zhilan]

I don't think the Copts need to accept Chalcedonian for unity and I don't think we need to renounce it either. Being in Communion means being of the same faith. We share 7 councils with Rome but we are not of the same faith. We share only 3 with the Copts but many in both our churches would argue that we are the same faith. I think what is needed is for both sides to acknowledge in humility that it was pride and misunderstanding that lead to division. The Copts took a strong stand against Nestorianism, which was really important in upholding Orthodoxy but misunderstood and believed that we were preaching Nestorianism - which they naturally could not accept. We took a strong stand against Monophyistism (is it an ism? sorry if it's not!), which was also important in upholding Orthodoxy, but we sadly mislabeled our brothers and sisters as Monophysites. Both sides were trying to maintain the Holy Orthodox faith and both sides misunderstood the other. But guess what, both sides did uphold the Holy Orthodox faith! So now we need to hug and make up. I believe God is no happy with his Holy Church being divided as it is.

[Chocolatesa]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I think this would be pertinent: http://www.orthodoxunity.org

[SpyridonOCA]

What are the current obstacles to achieving full and final unity?

[minasoliman]

What are the current obstacles to achieving full and final unity?
Primarily, the ignorance of knowing each other's history in some of our circles. Honest and truthful knowledge would be the answer.

Little by little, we want to try to involve all the heirarchs, not just a select few (which may be most of the EO Church heirarchs thus far).

[SpyridonOCA]

I am sorry if I have offended you. I do not believe that Dioscorus was guilty of heresy, but that pardoning Eutyches was a mistake. The same might be true for the acceptance of the Three Chapters, that too may have been a mistake.

[Anglian]

I think Zhilan's words have much wisdom in them.:thumbsup:

The Oriental Orthodox are perfectly prepared to consider the other Councils as local ones (as logically they are if you take seriously the fact that the OO took no part in any of them after Chalcedon, and never accepted Chalcedon).

If that isn't sufficient, then there won't be unity - and the Muslims and the secularists will keep going on their merry way - and we shall, as so often, be letting Satan have his way by default.

The divisions caused by Chalcedon played a part in the Muslim conquest of what is now called the Middle East - do we really learn so little from our own history?

That said, I think we need an honest recognition of where we still differ, and a prayerful attempt to overcome such obstacles - simply uniting without dealing with the causes of the division will never work.

In Christ,

Anglian

[Lbet123]

I don't think the Copts need to accept Chalcedonian for unity and I don't think we need to renounce it either. Being in Communion means being of the same faith. We share 7 councils with Rome but we are not of the same faith. We share only 3 with the Copts but many in both our churches would argue that we are the same faith. I think what is needed is for both sides to acknowledge in humility that it was pride and misunderstanding that lead to division. The Copts took a strong stand against Nestorianism, which was really important in upholding Orthodoxy but misunderstood and believed that we were preaching Nestorianism - which they naturally could not accept. We took a strong stand against Monophyistism (is it an ism? sorry if it's not!), which was also important in upholding Orthodoxy, but we sadly mislabeled our brothers and sisters as Monophysites. Both sides were trying to maintain the Holy Orthodox faith and both sides misunderstood the other. But guess what, both sides did uphold the Holy Orthodox faith! So now we need to hug and make up. I believe God is no happy with his Holy Church being divided as it is.
I am in agreement with Zhilan. While the boys are going back and forth on who did or said what when, a lot of people are on their way to Hades. As Orthodox we know this one thing. Christ died for our sins and he is coming back and when he does it will be for His Church. The Holy Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church. 1 Church. We need to be more vocal about Orthodoxy, what it is and how to have it. America is ripe for the harvest its just that no one ever hears about the first church.
:bow:
O Lord Jesus Christ our God, who in thy mercy and loving-kindness dost regard the prayers of all who call upon thee with their whole heart, incline thine ear and hear my prayer, now humbly offered unto thee: Be mindful, O Lord, of thy Holy Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church; confirm and strengthen it, increase it and keep it in peace, and preserve it unconquerable forever

[zhilan]

I am in agreement with Zhilan. While the boys are going back and forth on who did or said what when, a lot of people are on their way to Hades. As Orthodox we know this one thing. Christ died for our sins and he is coming back and when he does it will be for His Church. The Holy Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church. 1 Church. We need to be more vocal about Orthodoxy, what it is and how to have it. America is ripe for the harvest its just that no one ever hears about the first church.
:bow:
O Lord Jesus Christ our God, who in thy mercy and loving-kindness dost regard the prayers of all who call upon thee with their whole heart, incline thine ear and hear my prayer, now humbly offered unto thee: Be mindful, O Lord, of thy Holy Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church; confirm and strengthen it, increase it and keep it in peace, and preserve it unconquerable forever
I agree 100%. And I'm also very happy that I do see this starting to happen. At least in the Southern California area I have seen a lot of cooperation and joint efforts between the Coptic churches and various EO (especially Antiochian).

[SaintPhotios]

I pray for our restored unity.... may we be strengthened in our fight against Western innovations.