The Unadorned Church - Plain And Simple

[Bruce S]

Most Protestant church's are simple, plain, and unadorned. Not all, but most.

This is in contrast with other denominations, where artwork, statues, and the like are venerated and predominate.

Why is this so, is this better or not?

Personally, it took me some time to get used to this, coming from a background of a denomination that loved the pagentry and show and did decorate with most of the items listed above.

Does this bring one closer to God, or does a richly ornate church do this better?

http://www.nd.edu/~ndwlc/photoalbum/pics/basilica.jpg (http://www.nd.edu/~ndwlc/photoalbum/pics/basilica.jpg) http://www.gisdevelopment.net/application/archaeology/general/images/isprs6004h.jpg (http://www.gisdevelopment.net/application/archaeology/general/images/isprs6004h.jpg)

http://www.stlukeinthefields.org/images/home/church-interior-large.jpg (http://www.stlukeinthefields.org/images/home/church-interior-large.jpg)

[Jenna]

You know, I think that it can go both ways. There have been times when a part of my spirit has yearned for the barest of places for me to worship. At other times, I have just been completely awe-struck by the God-given talent that has been used as a means of trying through meager means to honor God and express a portion of His greatness. Of course, maybe that is why I find it almost impossible to go to one church-house exclusively. I need to find a place to worship that echos what is truly present in my spirit at any one time. So, I don't point any fingers over a congregation wanting a rich house to meet in, or at those who shun all signs of wealth in order to better give their moneys elsewhere. Just like our clothing and outward appearance, our human nature seems to call for changes that reflect what is going on with our insides. It's a good thing to be able to find places that cater to every situation, in that regard. :)

[kimber1]

you know, i personally think the reason we are there to begin with is to worship God, not check out the scenery. not saying scenery is bad mind you but i just don't see it as a neccesary part of worship.

[Lotar]

Isn't the top right an Orthodox church?

[sracer]

I look at the simplicity in which Jesus (and later, the apostles) preached. Simple...humble. No trappings of material wealth.

Growing up Catholic, I always felt that it was hypocritical (or at least inconsistent) to attend a church where there were gold chalices, gold candlesticks, ornate stained-glass windows, priests in elaborate regalia.

The fellowship that I now attend is simple and modest...

I feel more comfortable with that....but it isn't the surroundings that bring you closer.

[Filia Mariae]

Growing up Catholic, I always felt that it was hypocritical (or at least inconsistent) to attend a church where there were gold chalices, gold candlesticks, ornate stained-glass windows, priests in elaborate regalia.


Some of those oh-so-ornate Catholic churches:
(not that I'm agreeing that churches as gorgeous temples to the Lord are a bad thing)

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/jhs/THS-sacr.jpg

http://www.quincy.edu/frc/pics/chapel.jpg

http://www.lavingtonchurch.org.uk/Chapel%20at%20CD.jpg (http://www.lavingtonchurch.org.uk/Chapel%20at%20CD.jpg)

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:UyDC6QLjGVEC:www.franciscanfriarstor.com/friars/CHAPEL.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=www.franciscanfriarstor.com/friars/CHAPEL.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.franciscanfriarstor.com/friars/stf_bernadine.htm&h=347&w=463&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfranciscan%2Bchapel%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG)

[Godzman]

Actually the churches are adorned because of one man, the man known as

Constantine, he wanted the Christian churches to look gorgeous compared to the pagan temple which looked good at that time

[Filia Mariae]

Actually the churches are adorned because of one man, the man known as

Constantine, he wanted the Christian churches to look gorgeous compared to the pagan temple which looked good at that time


Cite?

[Godzman]

http://www.stthomasirondequoit.com/SaintsAlive/id178.htm



http://www.rc.net/marquette/carmelite/exaltation_of_the_cross.htm

http://justus.anglican.org/resources/pc/aus/vidal_november1868.html

http://www.byzantineholyicons.com/history.html

http://www.stuardtclarkesrome.com/churches.htm

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/texts/eusebius/euseprai.html

http://hocna.org/onthefaith/Pilgrimages.htm

[Blackhawk]

Most Protestant church's are simple, plain, and unadorned. Not all, but most.

This is in contrast with other denominations, where artwork, statues, and the like are venerated and predominate.

Why is this so, is this better or not?

Personally, it took me some time to get used to this, coming from a background of a denomination that loved the pagentry and show and did decorate with most of the items listed above.

Does this bring one closer to God, or does a richly ornate church do this better?
Well the reformers were against them because people would worship the icons or artwork instead of the God behind them. We still see that today but it is not as rampant as it was. But basically the reformers woul say that a non ornate church brings one closer to God because one can focus solely on Him only.

The reformers were also against them because they viewed them as idols or graven images. If this is true then to have them would bring one farther from God.

I think that to some extent icons and artwork and ornate churhces are good. They brign me closer to God. I remember I went into a church in France and viewed the painted ceiling. By focusing on the ceiling it helped me focus on God more. I guess it was kind of like when I watch a sunset or something. But I can see how it ca nget out of control. Some people have special crosses that are good luck charms or somethign like that.

[ZiSunka]

I love going to plain churches, because they are less physically and mentally distracting to me, I can concentrate on worship and learning!

[Oblio]

Actually the churches are adorned because of one man, the man known as Constantine,


Actually, St. Constantine, by freeing Christianity from state persecution, did pave the way for Christians to worship God in all His Glory through churches and Cathedrals befitting His Kingdom and Lordship.

[Godzman]

Actually, St. Constantine, by freeing Christianity from state persecution, did pave the way for Christians to worship God in all His Glory through churches and Cathedrals befitting His Kingdom and Lordship.
see, I know my history, at least some of it

[Filia Mariae]

Well the reformers were against them because people would worship the icons or artwork instead of the God behind them. We still see that today



Uhhh- I have yet to see any such thing. What I do see is God's people celebrating the iherently good, physical world that He made, and making a meager, human attempt to glorify God with the material goods He has bestowed upon us.

[Terri]

I feel the ornate churches would fit under the category of "the lust of the eyes" as described in 1JN 2:15.


1JN 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

[Oblio]

St. Constantine liberated the Church, so that with the guidance of the Holy Spirit worship of the Holy Trinity could attain the heights that it did during the Byzantine Empire. Heights that are reponsible for the conversion of the empire of Russia to Christianity.

[Preachers12]

Peace be with you.

In large part, the decorations in the Catholic churches are there to provide a visual depiction of the liturgy. They illustrate the liturgy.

Also, many of the early Church Fathers (and many today) saw the Mass as the coming together of Heaven and earth, very much following along views of John's Revelation. Since we are blinded by our sin and cannot see the spiritual happenings at Mass, the decorations help us to visualize them in our mind.

One of my favorite Eucharistic reflections is, after receiving the Eucharist, to walk back to my pew with my head looking straight down. As I kneel, I close my eyes and raise my head. When I open my eyes, with the physical presence of our Lord inside of me and my brethren, I gaze up at the Corpus (body) of Christ on the cross. Then I need only look to the left and right, at the statues of Mary, Joseph and/or other Saints and angels, and at the stain glass pictures showing our dearly departed heroes of the Church, and I know that we are all together, heaven and earth, the living and the dead, united by the sacrifice of our Lord, in His heavenly kingdom. United with them, I praise the Lord! Holy, Holy, Holy!

Could I do this without the decorations? Probably so. But WOW, does it ever help to let me see the reality better! I rejoice to think that one day I will fall asleep and my eyes will be open to this wonderful reality, this incredible gift of our loving Father.

God Bless,
P12

[Oblio]

Terri. do you have a Cite to support your Scriptural quote is speaking that oranate churches are for the boasting of man ? All the ornate churches I have seen boast of Christ and the Gospel, maybe that is just me :confused:

[Photini]

I find that if something becomes distracting to me, most likely it is not the object or person's fault that distracted my attention, but my own weakness. It has been most helpful to learn the theological meanings behind much of the Icons and vestments, and the very architecture of the church. Everything within my church is there for a purpose. Every gesture, every word, every item has it's place and purpose. They are there not simply to look nice and beautiful, but to lift our souls to God.
There is a beauty to simplicity. That is a rule I try to apply to my life in all things.
Humbly,
photini

[Filia Mariae]

Peace be with you.

In large part, the decorations in the Catholic churches are there to provide a visual depiction of the liturgy. They illustrate the liturgy.

Also, many of the early Church Fathers (and many today) saw the Mass as the coming together of Heaven and earth, very much following along views of John's Revelation. Since we are blinded by our sin and cannot see the spiritual happenings at Mass, the decorations help us to visualize them in our mind.

One of my favorite Eucharistic reflections is, after receiving the Eucharist, to walk back to my pew with my head looking straight down. As I kneel, I close my eyes and raise my head. When I open my eyes, with the physical presence of our Lord inside of me and my brethren, I gaze up at the Corpus (body) of Christ on the cross. Then I need only look to the left and right, at the statues of Mary, Joseph and/or other Saints and angels, and at the stain glass pictures showing our dearly departed heroes of the Church, and I know that we are all together, heaven and earth, the living and the dead, united by the sacrifice of our Lord, in His heavenly kingdom. United with them, I praise the Lord! Holy, Holy, Holy!

Could I do this without the decorations? Probably so. But WOW, does it ever help to let me see the reality better! I rejoice to think that one day I will fall asleep and my eyes will be open to this wonderful reality, this incredible gift of our loving Father.




Well that pretty much sums it up! Thank you. That was a beautiful description. Have you read The Lamb's Supper: Heaven on Earth?

I agree- the images and statues help me to focus my mind on the things that they are symbols of. It's a little like being surrounded by the communion of saints, right here on earth:holy: .

[Terri]

Terri. do you have a Cite to support your Scriptural quote is speaking that oranate churches are for the boasting of man ? All the ornate churches I have seen boast of Christ and the Gospel, maybe that is just me :confused:

I feel the ornate churches would fit under the category of "the lust of the eyes" as described in 1JN 2:15.

That's LUST OF THE EYES! How you can misrepresent such a clear statement is quite amazing to me. :eek:



1JN 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

[Photini]

1JN 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
I have a quick question. Is it the gold itself that causes the lust of the eyes, or the impurity in the heart?

[Oblio]

That's LUST OF THE EYES! How you can misrepresent such a clear statement is quite amazing to me


Please notice the and in the Scripture you quoted. I think St. John the Theologian put the two phrases together for a reason.

Even so, why do you feel that images that help us to lift up our hearts unto the Lord are for the lust of our eyes when all of our theology and praxis says otherwise ? If you are calling the praxis of our faith a sin (i.e. Lust) I think it is only fair to know why you think so, Scripture had not given us evidence of such reason.

[Godzman]

well, I think it is good, to not even have a chance in your life to idolize something, that would be walking in holiness

Sometimes we can lift up people in the church more then Jesus himself

[Lotar]

Didn't we just have an arguement on this subject a few weeks ago? I'm pretty sure I have a few bad reps from it.

[Photini]

well, I think it is good, to not even have a chance in your life to idolize something, that would be walking in holiness

Sometimes we can lift up people in the church more then Jesus himself
But we realise that the tendancy to idolise a person or object or even an idea, is OUR problem. There is something lurking in our heart that tempts us to do this. When you struggle against these passions and examine the heart, and by the grace of God overcome them, then they are no longer a stumbling block. Everything on this earth was given to us as a gift and blessing from God. It is a good thing to offer these blessings back to Him.
Gold and silver are not evil, it is our sinful attitudes and passions that are evil. These are what we should be banishing from our hearts....

[Lanakila]

*Mod Hat On* I just read through the forum specific rules again. I suggest that the members posting in this thread do the same. *Mod Hat Off*
http://www.christianforums.com/t34458

[Photini]

Isn't the top right an Orthodox church?Yes it appears to be one. Here's some others:
(I hope it wasn't me who violated any rules. If so, I humbly prostrate myself.)

Two of the pics (the first and the third) are churches within monasteries. The third one is of the Vatopedi Monastery on Mount Athos.

[KristiXP]

I love going to plain churches, because they are less physically and mentally distracting to me, I can concentrate on worship and learning!
I agree. I am there to worship God, and to focus on Him. A lot of decorations, I think, would distract me.

I don't disagree with adorning your Church with a lot of decoration, to each his own. It's just not my preference.