Is the Anglican Communion over?

[DarkNLovely]

Somebody said this on another board and Ia want an Anglican oppinion on the matter. Bear in mind that this does not change my opinion about the goodness of the COE. If it's true, what good do you foresee coming out of it?

[DarkNLovely]

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6749

Here is the link.

[ebia]

Is the Anglican Communion over?

The nature (& membership) of the Communion may well change but I doubt it will disappear entirely. In the end, though, the Anglicanism exists at a national and diocesan level - the communion may cease to exist without it having a huge impact on the various national churches that make it up.

Personally, I don't think a 'global south' grouping will succeed any better than the existing communion - once such a group breaks away (if it does) then internal differences between the national churches and dioceses that make it up will become more apparent and ...

[Secundulus]

Anglicanism will survive no matter what happens in the communion.

[DarkNLovely]

Frankly I'm still having trouble understanding what it means if there is no more AC.

[PaladinValer]

Somebody said this on another board and Ia want an Anglican oppinion on the matter. Bear in mind that this does not change my opinion about the goodness of the COE. If it's true, what good do you foresee coming out of it?

TEC has fulfilled what was asked of us in the Windsor Report.

Some people are simply blowing a lot of hot air, but when you actually read the Windsor Report and read what was asked of us by the Primature, we have done those things, even in spades.

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6749

Here is the link.

Virtue is a noted one-sided and biased source of information. If you want to get straightout fact, join the various Anglican news services.

Frankly I'm still having trouble understanding what it means if there is no more AC.

The Anglican Church is not ending. Far from it. If anything, it is the likes of folks like ++Akinola who are now going to be in the hot seat.

[Aymn27]

Frankly I'm still having trouble understanding what it means if there is no more AC.
At last count about 200 bishops out of 800 had sent in their RSVPs to the Lambeth Council - I believe about half or a little over will feel that the statement from the HOB have met the requirements of the WR and the DES Communique -- the other half will see through the double tounged document and see if for what it is -- a "pass" to make it through Lambeth and until the next GC where they will go even farther out in left field...I don't think it will be a "formal" break....but the future holds much debate, etc...until a formal break does occur..

[DarkNLovely]

The lack of unity is most disturbing. Out of curiosity, when does the COE elect a new ABC? It sounds to me like a lot of the issues are stemming from him. Am I wrong?


*off-topic*
Beckett comes on TMC Tuesday morning at 2:30am Eastern time I believe.

[gtsecc]

Frankly I'm still having trouble understanding what it means if there is no more AC.
Then we have to become either Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.

[DarkNLovely]

I meant the Anglican Communion, not the Anglican Church. Sorry!

[Polycarp1]

This post has been removed by Polycarp1 because apparently only one side of the recent conflicts in the Anglican Communion is permitted on ForU.ms to slag the other side without any negative consequences, and it's not the side I'm on.

[Colabomb]

Anglicanism existed before the Anglican Communion, it will exist after it.

Anglicanism, unlike what many here will tell you, is not monolithic. The various bodies are, and always have been autonomous.

[Naomi4Christ]

The local parish church will still be the local parish church.

[ChaliceThunder]

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6749

Here is the link.
As with anything David Virtue writes, it's filled with invective and misinformation.

Don't believe a word of it.

[Albion]

Frankly I'm still having trouble understanding what it means if there is no more AC.

It probably only means that the ability of the Archbishop of Canterbury to engage in discussions with other worldwide religious bodies will be impaired. But already the Vatican is negotiating with the Traditional Anglican Communion, a rival Anglican association, as you know, so this is already underway.

The Anglican Communion is of fairly recent origin, is a voluntary organization that represents most but by no means all Anglicans anyway, and does not create as much unity as is supposed by many to be the case. For instance, of the 38 member provinces of the Anglican Communion, 22 have declared that they are not in communion or are in a state of impaired communion with TEC at present. So this is not what being IN communion is normally thought to be.

But specifically, the Anglican Communion will continue, with some modifications to its structure.

[higgs2]

Who cares? That's how I'm beginning to feel. I hope TEC gets "kicked out" or decides to leave sooner rather than later and then we can move on and quit dithering about this stuff.

It's all about money, when it comes down to it. Someone needs to get a list together of high school gyms available for rent, and stop all of the machinations to take property out of TEC. If TEC is so bad, perhaps the buildings will be for sale at a loss before long and can just be purchased.

[higgs2]

What the ABC or anyone else in this drama does really doesn't affect my parish at the local level. THe important thing in being Anglican is to *go to church*. Attend a church, get baptised, receive the Eucharist, join a bible study or some type of group, do charitible works and don't worry about all the fiddling around these bishops are doing on the worldwide stage. It's being in church on a regular basis and praying that changes lives, not Lambeth or who the ABC is. IMHO.

[TomUK]

The gates of hell will not prevail.

[Albion]

Who cares? That's how I'm beginning to feel.

Now you've gone and said that which is not to be spoken! ;)

But of course, you are right.

If there were no Anglican Communion, the world of Anglicanism would not suffer a mortal blow. It might barely notice, as a matter of fact.

Indeed, it seems that the main reason for being "in" is to claim that all the Anglicans who are not "in," are therefore "not Anglicans." The minute TEC is expelled or chooses to leave on her own, we'll hear no more of that unnecessary and divisive theory, and then everyone can start building bridges instead of erecting fences.

[Aymn27]

Who cares? That's how I'm beginning to feel. I hope TEC gets "kicked out" or decides to leave sooner rather than later and then we can move on and quit dithering about this stuff.

It's all about money, when it comes down to it. Someone needs to get a list together of high school gyms available for rent, and stop all of the machinations to take property out of TEC. If TEC is so bad, perhaps the buildings will be for sale at a loss before long and can just be purchased.
Why not do it the Christian way and let each parish/diocese choose it's own way? 51%+ means the property goes with the majority...it's not that hard...the "divorce" can be easy or it can be hard -- leaving the lawyers out and being fair minded it makes it much easier...

[Aymn27]

What the ABC or anyone else in this drama does really doesn't affect my parish at the local level. THe important thing in being Anglican is to *go to church*. Attend a church, get baptised, receive the Eucharist, join a bible study or some type of group, do charitible works and don't worry about all the fiddling around these bishops are doing on the worldwide stage. It's being in church on a regular basis and praying that changes lives, not Lambeth or who the ABC is. IMHO.
Of course it matters at the local level - are same-sex relationships able to be blessed or should the partner be referred to counseling? Is Jesus Christ Lord and Savior or is he a metaphorical creation of a band of rebels who came-up with the "Jesus event" and lived a "resurrection faith"....did His dying atone for your sinfulness or was it an act cosmic child abuse? etc etc....

[Albion]

It's all about money, when it comes down to it. Someone needs to get a list together of high school gyms available for rent, and stop all of the machinations to take property out of TEC. If TEC is so bad, perhaps the buildings will be for sale at a loss before long and can just be purchased.

I hate to read this put as if it were an open and shut issue.

We need to keep in mind that TEC at a General Convention only a few years ago created the rule taking local property and giving it to the greater Church. It had never been that way in TEC until that time, and there's no doubt as to why the change was made.

It is easy to picture the typical parish that leaves as having worshipped in some Gothic masterpiece that dates from the 18th century, but in fact many such parish churches are only a few years old and were paid for mainly with the monies of those active parishioners in the here and now.

Naturally, none of these parishes got to vote on having their property confiscated by a resolution passed at a GC.

[No Swansong]

Who cares? That's how I'm beginning to feel. I hope TEC gets "kicked out" or decides to leave sooner rather than later and then we can move on and quit dithering about this stuff.

It's all about money, when it comes down to it. Someone needs to get a list together of high school gyms available for rent, and stop all of the machinations to take property out of TEC. If TEC is so bad, perhaps the buildings will be for sale at a loss before long and can just be purchased.
It's all about money? Questioning the validity of female ordination or ordination of active homosexuals is a money issue? Bishops claiming that Jesus was not Virgin Born or Divine is a money issue? Sorry I don't see it.

[DarkNLovely]

It's all about money? Questioning the validity of female ordination or ordination of active homosexuals is a money issue? Bishops claiming that Jesus was not Virgin Born or Divine is a money issue? Sorry I don't see it.

:amen: I think that it's the other way around. If you have more people in your leadership that reflect certain immoral trends, then the more they will atttract others who also do not want to submit to the will of God but rather want "acceptence". An acceptence that they will literally pay for. A shame really.