Do we need the "Eastern" in "Eastern Orthodox"?

[SpyridonOCA]

Given that the Orthodox Church isn't just the Church for the East but the whole world, do we need to refer to ourselves as "Eastern Orthodox." Before the Great Schism, the Roman Church was a part of Orthodoxy. It's not that the One Church split into two Churches, but that the Bishop of Rome broke away from THE Church itself. And as Westerners in the Orthodox Church, how can we expect those who have never even heard of the Church to care about what might seem to them as some obscure Eastern faith?

[SeraphimSarov]

Eastern Orthodox implies that Holy Orthodoxy is another of many denominations, which it most certainly is not. I personally think the "Eastern" needs to be dropped for good.

[nutroll]

I have very rarely referred to it as Eastern Orthodox. I don't really know many people that do. I just say Orthodox.

[buzuxi02]

But how would you distinguish between us and lets say presbyterian Orthodox, etc. Byzantine Orthodox?

[Nichole]

Well, my thought was that it was Eastern rite. Meaning the religion started in the East. If we say Western, then we refer to the Western religions.........Protestant, Catholics, etc.???!!!! Just a thought!

[Matrona]

I say Orthodox Christian.

I also avoid using the O-word to describe the Non-Chalcedonian religion.

[buzuxi02]

I say Orthodox Christian.

I also avoid using the O-word to describe the Non-Chalcedonian religion.
which 'O' word, oriental or orthodox?
I prefer non-chalcedom or the 'm' word outisde of here

[Matrona]

which 'O' word, oriental or orthodox?
I prefer non-chalcedom or the 'm' word outisde of here

Both, since "Oriental" and "Eastern" are essentially the same word, and are the same in certain languages, so it just lends credence to the pervasive lie that Orthodoxy is the same as that religion.

[Jacob4707]

How about dropping both "Eastern" and "Orthodox" from "Eastern Orthodox Christian" and say that you are a "Christian"?

And, since "Church" comes from kyriakos/kyriakê/kyriakon = "of or pertaining to the Lord" (Kyrios) (like pneumatikos/pneumatikê/pneumatikon means "spiritual" and sarkikos/sarkikê/sarkikon means "fleshly/carnal"), then "Christian Church" is in a sense a tautology because "church" by itself means "of the Lord [Jesus Christ]".

So, instead of "Eastern Orthodox Church" or "Eastern Orthodox Christians" we should just call ourselves "the Church" and "Christians" with no "Eastern" or "Orthodox" needing to be appended. :D

"Are you a Christian?"

"Yes."

"What kind?"

"The only kind. A Christian."

"What church do you go to?"

"The Church."

"Which church?"

"THE Church."

"Huh?"

"Come and see!"

(After the visit)

"Why do you have all those icons, and bow to them?"

"Because we're Christians."

"And why do you honor Mary so much?"

"Because we're Christians."

"And why do you have a priest, and an altar, and do all that chanting and wave all that incense?"

"Because we're Christians."

"I've never known any Christians who do that."

"We've been doing it for nearly 2,000 years."

[Rowan]

Well, my thought was that it was Eastern rite. Meaning the religion started in the East. If we say Western, then we refer to the Western religions.........Protestant, Catholics, etc.???!!!! Just a thought!

We'd just have to remember Western Rite Orthodoxy though.

As far as the OP is concerned, I always say Orthodox. I think the "Eastern" should be dropped as well. I think it would help with the barrier of "foreign-ness" some people have trouble with.

[Jacob4707]

We'd just have to remember Western Rite Orthodoxy though.

As far as the OP is concerned, I always say Orthodox. I think the "Eastern" should be dropped as well. I think it would help with the barrier of "foreign-ness" some people have trouble with.

But calling ourselves "Orthodox" suggests that we have the right worship and doctrine and give God the proper glory, and they are ... well, "heterodox." :D

Of course, most who label us or call us "Orthodox" probably don't think about this implication. :) They probably think "Orthodox" means strict and old-fashioned and liturgical and having dress and eating and behavior codes, like "Orthodox Jews" (compared to the less strict Conservative and Reform Jews).

[marvmax]

Until I started posting here whenever I said Orthodox Christians I meant EOC, but around here Orthodox Christian has a different meaning. EOC keeps it clearer unfortunately.

[Rowan]

Of course, most who label us or call us "Orthodox" probably don't think about this implication. :) They probably think "Orthodox" means strict and old-fashioned and liturgical and having dress and eating and behavior codes, like "Orthodox Jews" (compared to Conservative and Reform Jews).

Haha I know what you mean. When I was telling people about my OCF, one girl was all, "Oh, like you're really fundamentalist?" ^_^

It was at that time when I came up with the idea of describing ourselves a little better on the campus life website.

[SeraphimSarov]

How about dropping both "Eastern" and "Orthodox" from "Eastern Orthodox Christian" and say that you are a "Christian"?

And, since "Church" comes from kyriakos/kyriakê/kyriakon = "of or pertaining to the Lord" (Kyrios) (like pneumatikos/pneumatikê/pneumatikon means "spiritual" and sarkikos/sarkikê/sarkikon means "fleshly/carnal"), then "Christian Church" is in a sense a tautology because "church" by itself means "of the Lord [Jesus Christ]".

So, instead of "Eastern Orthodox Church" or "Eastern Orthodox Christians" we should just call ourselves "the Church" and "Christians" with no "Eastern" or "Orthodox" needing to be appended. :D

"Are you a Christian?"

"Yes."

"What kind?"

"The only kind. A Christian."

"What church do you go to?"

"The Church."

"Which church?"

"THE Church."

"Huh?"

"Come and see!"

(After the visit)

"Why do you have all those icons, and bow to them?"

"Because we're Christians."

"And why do you honor Mary so much?"

"Because we're Christians."

"And why do you have a priest, and an altar, and do all that chanting and wave all that incense?"

"Because we're Christians."

"I've never known any Christians who do that."

"We've been doing it for nearly 2,000 years."
This is sheer brilliance!!

[Jacob4707]

How about dropping both "Eastern" and "Orthodox" from "Eastern Orthodox Christian" and say that you are a "Christian"?

And, since "Church" comes from kyriakos/kyriakê/kyriakon = "of or pertaining to the Lord" (Kyrios) (like pneumatikos/pneumatikê/pneumatikon means "spiritual" and sarkikos/sarkikê/sarkikon means "fleshly/carnal"), then "Christian Church" is in a sense a tautology because "church" by itself means "of the Lord [Jesus Christ]".

So, instead of "Eastern Orthodox Church" or "Eastern Orthodox Christians" we should just call ourselves "the Church" and "Christians" with no "Eastern" or "Orthodox" needing to be appended. :D

"Are you a Christian?"

"Yes."

"What kind?"

"The only kind. A Christian."

"What church do you go to?"

"The Church."

"Which church?"

"THE Church."

"Huh?"

"Come and see!"

(After the visit)

"Why do you have all those icons, and bow to them?"

"Because we're Christians."

"And why do you honor Mary so much?"

"Because we're Christians."

"And why do you have a priest, and an altar, and do all that chanting and wave all that incense?"

"Because we're Christians."

"I've never known any Christians who do that."

"We've been doing it for nearly 2,000 years."This is sheer brilliance!!The real fun begins if they then try to argue why they're Christians even though they don't do or believe any of the things you do or believe, or why they're Christians and you're not. :)

Forgive me.

[Jacob4707]

.

[Hoankan]

How about dropping both "Eastern" and "Orthodox" from "Eastern Orthodox Christian" and say that you are a "Christian"?

And, since "Church" comes from kyriakos/kyriakê/kyriakon = "of or pertaining to the Lord" (Kyrios) (like pneumatikos/pneumatikê/pneumatikon means "spiritual" and sarkikos/sarkikê/sarkikon means "fleshly/carnal"), then "Christian Church" is in a sense a tautology because "church" by itself means "of the Lord [Jesus Christ]".

So, instead of "Eastern Orthodox Church" or "Eastern Orthodox Christians" we should just call ourselves "the Church" and "Christians" with no "Eastern" or "Orthodox" needing to be appended. :D

"Are you a Christian?"

"Yes."

"What kind?"

"The only kind. A Christian."

"What church do you go to?"

"The Church."

"Which church?"

"THE Church."

"Huh?"

"Come and see!"

(After the visit)

"Why do you have all those icons, and bow to them?"

"Because we're Christians."

"And why do you honor Mary so much?"

"Because we're Christians."

"And why do you have a priest, and an altar, and do all that chanting and wave all that incense?"

"Because we're Christians."

"I've never known any Christians who do that."

"We've been doing it for nearly 2,000 years."
And for the St. Louis team we have Who's on First, What's on Second and I don't know on Third.

[zhilan]

The problem is that when you just say "Orthodox" people assume you're Jewish. :doh:Oy-vey!

But then again, I like to tell people I'm "Antiochian Orthodox" which makes people think I must not be speaking English. ^_^

[MsDahl]

How about dropping both "Eastern" and "Orthodox" from "Eastern Orthodox Christian" and say that you are a "Christian"?

And, since "Church" comes from kyriakos/kyriakê/kyriakon = "of or pertaining to the Lord" (Kyrios) (like pneumatikos/pneumatikê/pneumatikon means "spiritual" and sarkikos/sarkikê/sarkikon means "fleshly/carnal"), then "Christian Church" is in a sense a tautology because "church" by itself means "of the Lord [Jesus Christ]".

So, instead of "Eastern Orthodox Church" or "Eastern Orthodox Christians" we should just call ourselves "the Church" and "Christians" with no "Eastern" or "Orthodox" needing to be appended. :D

"Are you a Christian?"

"Yes."

"What kind?"

"The only kind. A Christian."

"What church do you go to?"

"The Church."

"Which church?"

"THE Church."

"Huh?"

"Come and see!"

(After the visit)

"Why do you have all those icons, and bow to them?"

"Because we're Christians."

"And why do you honor Mary so much?"

"Because we're Christians."

"And why do you have a priest, and an altar, and do all that chanting and wave all that incense?"

"Because we're Christians."

"I've never known any Christians who do that."

"We've been doing it for nearly 2,000 years."

ROFL!! That was very funny, I like that.

The problem is that when you just say "Orthodox" people assume you're Jewish. :doh:Oy-vey!

That's what I have experienced.

[Jacob4707]

The problem is that when you just say "Orthodox" people assume you're Jewish. :doh:Oy-vey!That's what I have experienced.

I've got double the problem y'all have, because I really am Jewish. (Though we were never Orthodox, just Reform and Conservative.)

[Dorothea]

I usually say "Greek Orthodox" or "Orthodox Christian." I have to point out the "Christian" part sometimes because some may think I'm an Orthodox Jew. :eek: Not that that's bad, but it's not what I am. LOL

[MsDahl]

I've got double the problem y'all have, because I really am Jewish. (Though we were never Orthodox, just Reform and Conservative.)

Oh, how cool, so you are part of the original Christian church coming from the original chosen people's faith? I highly esteem Jewish people as if it wasn't for their faith, I would have none to speak of. To be an Orthodox Christian who is also Jewish by heritage must be so pleasing to the Lord!

[Jacob4707]

Oh, how cool, so you are part of the original Christian church coming from the original chosen people's faith? I highly esteem Jewish people as if it wasn't for their faith, I would have none to speak of. To be an Orthodox Christian who is also Jewish by heritage must be so pleasing to the Lord!

May it be so ... i.e., pleasing to the Lord.

(As my Jewish-but-atheist father said when we told him we were now going to an Orthodox Church - which in some sense was probably a relief to him after our "fundamentalist" and Bible-believing and slightly-cultish Charismatic church days - "You know that your grandparents left Russia because of the Orthodox Church." :) )

[Brushstroke]

I usually just refer to myself as an Orthodox Christian. I used to refer to myself as just Orthodox, but like a lot of you, everyone thought I was Jewish. They'd be like "You're an Orthodox Jew?! I never knew that. O.o" And I'd say "Noooo, Orthodox Christian" and then they'd say "Oh...well isn't that what all Christians are?" and then we would get into a discussion about the faith. Still happens lol.

[paleodoxy]

To be perfectly honest, not only would I prefer dropping the "Eastern", but also the "Orthodox". Here's why:

'Orthodoxy' is a term set in opposition (i.e., in opposition to heterodoxy). Because of its particular usage in context, it becomes an essentially negative term - what we are, "as opposed to what you are". It's like saying there is more than one church - the orthodox church, and then a bunch of other churches that (in our estimation) are not orthodox.

We need to take back "Catholic" from the Roman Catholic church. In order to do that, we call ourselves The Holy Catholic Church.

We are worldwide (not "eastern" or "roman" - suggesting an invalid "two lungs" approach), and we are the Catholic Church, not orthodox vs. heterodox - just the Holy Catholic Church, to emphasize the historical reality of who broke off from who first.

[Xpycoctomos]

which 'O' word, oriental or orthodox?
I prefer non-chalcedom or the 'm' word outisde of here
what? Miaphysites?

Doc Ock

[Xpycoctomos]

I say whatever is going to make them understand that I am part of the One true Church and which Church exactly that is.

So, that may be Orthodox, Orthodox Christian or Eastern Orthodox (I rarely use that one). I generally don't try to make any grand stand with the name. Regardless of the name, it's the Chruch... but we need names to communicate which is which. So, I think for that reason "Christian" just doesn't offer clear communication, although in theory it is the most correct.

[Thekla]

the title pre-dates my "inclusion in it" ^_^

certainly, orthodox in its "original language" understanding is lovely.
eastern is a reminder that we are (hopefully) unaffected by the enlightenment, etc.

[Rick of Wessex]

I always say "Orthodox Christian".

Also, I never use the O-words to refer to nen-Chalcedonians, either.

In XC,
Rick

[Jacob4707]

Both, since "Oriental" and "Eastern" are essentially the same word, and are the same in certain languages, so it just lends credence to the pervasive lie that Orthodoxy is the same as that religion.

Good point. Saying "Eastern Orthodox" versus "Oriental Orthodox" is almost like saying "truck" versus "lorry" or "cheese" versus "fromage."

But because of custom and usage and popular understanding of the terms, despite my earlier humorous comments I would probably refer to myself as "Eastern Orthodox" (correcting those who, upon hearing me say that I'm Orthodox, often respond, "Oh, you mean Greek Orthodox?") and the non-Chalcedonians as "Oriental Orthodox" (unless they would be offended by the term and prefer another term that does not lump them in with or confuse them with Chalcedonian Orthodox). Saying "Eastern Orthodox" immediately eliminates (or should), "Oh, you're Jewish?" and it also allows an explanation of why it's "The Orthodox Church" and not "The Greek Orthodox Church" or "The Russian Orthodox Church," etc.

And in response to a typical non-denominational or low-church Evangelical/Charismatic Protestant asking, "What do you believe?" it might achieve a subtle purpose if one rephrased it back to them first, e.g.: "You believe some of what we believe - e.g., that God is a Trinity and Jesus is fully God and fully man. But we continue to believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and the efficacy of baptism and chrismation, and our worship has pretty much maintained the liturgical and Scriptural traditions and practices that the Church has held for nearly 2 millennia." :) THAT should provoke an interesting discussion, assuming that is your intent.

[SaintPhotios]

Ehhh.... maybe I'm just too lenient, but I don't think it ultimately matters. I mean the term "Roman Catholic" doesn't imply that it is a religion exclusive to Rome. It's a historical precedence. I use the terms Eastern Orthodox and Greek Orthodox for no other reason than historical precedence. And who knows.... if we did change the name, there would inevitably be some hyper-conservative faction to use it as grounds for schism.

I would have no problem with changing it if there was a misunderstanding about the faith.... and in fact, that might be the case, and a change will be needed. But thus far, everyone in my experience understands that the name Eastern Orthodox or Greek Orthodox makes it exclusive to a specific region or ethnicity.

[Mary of Bethany]

I generally start out with "I'm Orthodox", or "I'm Orthodox Christian". Then if they say "Huh???", I ask if they've heard of "Greek Orthodox" or "Russian Orthodox", etc., and most people have, so then I explain that it's all one Orthodox Church, they're just known by country/language/culture. I rarely say "Eastern Orthodox", unless I think that clarifies something for the person I'm talking to. It's all about communication.

Mary

[paleodoxy]

Just about every western Christian I know thinks of Orthodoxy and refers to it as "Eastern Orthodoxy", which put me in the habit of using it.

But I still like The Holy Catholic Church. :)

[Chocolatesa]

When I told a friend I was thinking of becoming orthodox, he replied "oh you're jewish?", so I told him no Christian Orthodox. So I guess in the future I'll just say Christian Orthodox for those who don't know what it even is, for those who do I'd specify eastern orthodox I guess, not to get confused with oriental orthodox.

[Xpycoctomos]

And in response to a typical non-denominational or low-church Evangelical/Charismatic Protestant asking, "What do you believe?" it might achieve a subtle purpose if one rephrased it back to them first, e.g.: "You believe some of what we believe - e.g., that God is a Trinity and Jesus is fully God and fully man. But we continue to believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and the efficacy of baptism and chrismation, and our worship has pretty much maintained the liturgical and Scriptural traditions and practices that the Church has held for nearly 2 millennia." :) THAT should provoke an interesting discussion, assuming that is your intent.

I like that!

[authiodionitist]

Someone very close to me says "Eastern" Orthodox. When I ask, "what does that mean?" he talks about east-versus west in philosophical systems.......

I'd rather he admit that he's a Russian Orthodox Christian (he's in the OCA like me). ;)
At the same time, I want him to say "Christian" because he'll just stop at Eastern Orthodox as if that explains it all.


Also, I'm an American! I only know a few phrases of Russian and I can follow Slavonic because the OCA uses the Slavic typikon. So I want to be called an American Christian! I'm with Jacob on this issue.

[nestoj]

My priest always calls us Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church... when he uses the term "Orthodox" it's a way to explain our approach to faith and a way we practice Christianity, but a Church is always Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Yes, rest of us use "Orthodox Church" more often, but this board is where I've seen "EOC" for the first time.

nestoj
God helps

[Thekla]

EOC "summarizes" the jurisdictions as all of one Church. Orthodox has become a diluted term; I use EO or EOC in GT to differentiate between the "western" use of the term orthodox and avoid jurisdictional "preference".

[SpyridonOCA]

I'd rather he admit that he's a Russian Orthodox Christian (he's in the OCA like me). ;)

Being an American member of the Orthodox Church in America, I'd prefer to consider myself American Orthodox.

[Xpycoctomos]

Being an American member of the Orthodox Church in America, I'd prefer to consider myself American Orthodox.
So I'm Russian Orthodox ? lol ;) Sounds cool!

[SpyridonOCA]

So I'm Russian Orthodox ? lol ;) Sounds cool!

I guess you can be until we have an end to ethnic jurisdictionalism in this country.

[HandmaidenOfGod]

I was raised in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, but growing up when the USSR still existed, most Americans had never heard of the country of Ukraine, never mind Ukrainian Orthodoxy, so I would begrudgingly tell people I was Russian Orthodox, or I would say "I'm Ukrainian Orthodox which is just like Russian Orthodoxy but different language."

Recently I was having an online conversation with a man who was Greek Orthodox. My last name, although Hungarian in origin, looks Greek. (Ends in "os.") When he asked if I was Greek, I said "No, but I am Orthodox."


His reply: "Oh, so you're Jewish?" :doh:

[SpyridonOCA]

I'm satisfied with this explanation of why we use the term "Eastern Orthodox":


There is yet another qualifying adjective that extends beyond its obvious connotations, and that is the term "Eastern." It has little or nothing to do with any attempt to place the Orthodox Church geographically or culturally. Indeed, the spread of the Church in the West has tended to make its Easternness all the more evident. And while it is true that Orthodoxy bears an eastern stamp, in terms of the regions where it has had its principal early growth and development, it is no more oriental in this sense than the Roman Church is occidental. What is implied is its fidelity to the primitive faith and tradition, and thus to some extent its identification with the locales of the early Church: Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria and, later, Constantinople. More to the point, perhaps, it refers to the locales of the great Ecumenical Councils of the still undivided Church: Nicaea, Constantinople, Ephesus, Chalcedon. Thus, just as the adjective Greek embraces all Orthodox Churches which are anything but Greek in their national character and their cultural ethos, so also the term Eastern applies to them in precisely the same way.
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7051.asp


The term "Eastern" may also be necessary to stress that our Church hasn't been tainted by Western thought.

[authiodionitist]

I was raised in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, but growing up when the USSR still existed, most Americans had never heard of the country of Ukraine, never mind Ukrainian Orthodoxy, so I would begrudgingly tell people I was Russian Orthodox, or I would say "I'm Ukrainian Orthodox which is just like Russian Orthodoxy but different language."

Recently I was having an online conversation with a man who was Greek Orthodox. My last name, although Hungarian in origin, looks Greek. (Ends in "os.") When he asked if I was Greek, I said "No, but I am Orthodox."


His reply: "Oh, so you're Jewish?" :doh:
So are you under the EP Ukraininan Church or the MP Ukrainina Church?

[Shubunkin]

Our Church may be Eastern Orthodox, but we have Egyptians, Serbians, Russians, okies (similar to me), Iraqis, and Greek visitors from the Greek Orthodox Church in our area at times. ;)

[HandmaidenOfGod]

So are you under the EP Ukraininan Church or the MP Ukrainina Church?
The parish I was raised in is part of the UOC of the USA under the EP. (http://www.uocofusa.org/) The parish I currently attend is part of the OCA diocese.