Confirmation in Scripture [Archive]

karen freeinchristman

27th September 2007, 07:41 AM

Where in N.T. does it ask us to do a Confirmation?
A confirmation is simply a sacramental way of allowing a person to affirm their baptismal vows (which were said for them when they were a baby), when they come to a more mature time of life by which they desire to assume those vows consciously, and the sacrament allows for the bishop to confirm that person with invocation of the Holy Spirit. We believe the Holy Spirit is already at work in that person from their baptism, but confirmation is a way of making a more mature commitment to God.

Where in the NT does it disallow confirmation?

AngCath

27th September 2007, 08:26 AM

When we are Baptized we are united by the Holy Spirit into Christ's death and resurrection. When we are Confirmed the Spirit strengthens us as at Pentecost.

DarkNLovely

27th September 2007, 08:36 AM

Yeah, I haven't done either yet! I like being non denom, but if I become denom, I think it would be best if I wait so I could be baptized into that church.

AngCath

27th September 2007, 08:39 AM

Yeah, I haven't done either yet! I like being non denom, but if I become denom, I think it would be best if I wait so I could be baptized into that church.
you are baptized into the universal church, the body of christ.
you are confirmed into a particular denom.
-
Hence, I am a baptized Christian and a confirmed Episcopalian.

Secundulus

27th September 2007, 08:49 AM

The confirmation is in the Bible. It is the laying on of hands and the chrism that is the physical symbol for the descent of the Holy Spirit onto a person to strengthen him as a mature Christian.

DarkNLovely

27th September 2007, 08:49 AM

you are baptized into the universal church, the body of christ.
you are confirmed into a particular denom.
-
Hence, I am a baptized Christian and a confirmed Episcopalian.
OH! THANKS!

Secundulus

27th September 2007, 08:52 AM

Yeah, I haven't done either yet! I like being non denom, but if I become denom, I think it would be best if I wait so I could be baptized into that church.

Technically, if you have not been baptised, you are not a Christian yet. If you believe in Christ then you should be baptised as soon as possible. The only requirement is that it is done by Christians in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

DarkNLovely

27th September 2007, 08:54 AM

Technically, if you have not been baptised, you are not a Christian yet. If you believe in Christ then you should be baptised as soon as possible. The only requirement is that it is done by Christians in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN?!?!?!?!?!?!

http://www.thecatgallery.com/images/shocked-cat-2.JPG

Secundulus

27th September 2007, 09:09 AM

Mark 16:16

DarkNLovely

27th September 2007, 09:15 AM

Mark 16:16
But I believeth!

Secundulus

27th September 2007, 09:17 AM

But I believeth!

Then you should be Baptized.

TomUK

27th September 2007, 09:33 AM

Acts 8:

14Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15The two went down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit 16(for as yet the Spirit had not come* upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus). 17Then Peter and John* laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

There are clearly two stages to this passage. The laying on of hands and the receipt of the holy spirit is a separate action to the baptism.

Albion

27th September 2007, 11:03 AM

Where in N.T. does it ask us to do a Confirmation?

There is, as you know, no such place in the NT. That's why the church has not considered it to be a sacrament.

On the other hand, reaffirming one's faith at a time when one may be considered old enough (presuming baptism as a child) to do so on his own has a long record in Christian practice. We presume that God will bless the Confirmand and forgive his sins, but there is no absolute requirement for anyone to be Confirmed, even considering the history and logic behind the practice.

DarkNLovely

27th September 2007, 12:42 PM

Then you should be Baptized.
Alright, alright don't be so pushy!

PaladinValer

27th September 2007, 03:28 PM

The Sacrament of Holy Confirmation is a mature declaration of belief and association.

Whereas in Holy Baptism we participate in Christ's death and resurrection and have that sealed with chrism, in Holy Confirmation, we receive episcopal laying on of hands and further anointing, which not only strengthens the bond we have with the Holy Spirit but makes our walk in Christ our own in solid dedication.

Traditionally, if newborns to young children are Baptized, they are expected to Confirm later in their teens. Older children and adults traditionally celebrate Baptism and Confirmation one right after the other respectfully.

JohnChapter14

27th September 2007, 03:52 PM

PaladinValer

27th September 2007, 03:59 PM

Let me share something on my mind:

Thank you all for sharing what you know about Confirmation:
Can two infants be married together through their parents or is it up to the two individuals getting married to declare their vows only?

I am a very divided person, on this subject.

Does not one have to declare they want to be crucified to Christ before they become crucified?
Does not one have to accept themselves, since salvation is individual, that they declare Christ to become their lord and Saviour and willingly want to be baptised in the name of the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit?
How can babies become disciples in Christ when they can't even take care of themselves, walk, eat solid foods, and speak yet? Babies can't do anything!

Confirmation is something for mature folks, not babies.

Secundulus

27th September 2007, 04:04 PM

Can two infants be married together through their parents or is it up to the two individuals getting married to declare their vows only?

No, Marriage is a sacrament between two people and God. If the two people have no knowledge of the vows they are making, then the marriage sacrament is meaningless and void.

Does not one have to declare they want to be crucified to Christ before they become crucified?
Does not one have to accept themselves, since salvation is individual, that they declare Christ to become their lord and Saviour and willingly want to be baptised in the name of the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit?

If you believe that it is your work that makes the baptism efficacious then you are correct.

We believe that it is the work of God and its effect is dependent upon God only. We also believe there is a real spiritual effect and to delay it makes no sense.

Colabomb

27th September 2007, 04:47 PM

Yeah, I haven't done either yet! I like being non denom, but if I become denom, I think it would be best if I wait so I could be baptized into that church.

Please know that when you are baptized you are baptized into christ, not into a sect.

DarkNLovely

27th September 2007, 04:49 PM

Please know that when you are baptized you are baptized into christ, not into a sect.
OK! So, one is Baptized into Christ, but confirmed into a denomination. Got it!

gtsecc

27th September 2007, 05:49 PM

Where in N.T. does it ask us to do a Confirmation?
Why would you expect scripture to cover confirmation?
You should expect the Prayer Book to cover it, but not the Bible.
???

gtsecc

27th September 2007, 05:49 PM

Yeah, I haven't done either yet! I like being non denom, but if I become denom, I think it would be best if I wait so I could be baptized into that church.
Ask your Priest to baptize you right away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ebia

27th September 2007, 07:31 PM

Let me share something on my mind:

Thank you all for sharing what you know about Confirmation:
Can two infants be married together through their parents or is it up to the two individuals getting married to declare their vows only?

I am a very divided person, on this subject.

Does not one have to declare they want to be crucified to Christ before they become crucified?
Does not one have to accept themselves, since salvation is individual, that they declare Christ to become their lord and Saviour and willingly want to be baptised in the name of the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit?
How can babies become disciples in Christ when they can't even take care of themselves, walk, eat solid foods, and speak yet? Babies can't do anything!
Well, that really depends on whether you think baptism is primarily about the candidate doing something, or primarily about God doing something. If the former then infant baptism makes no sense. If the later then not baptising infants who will grow up in faith makes no sense. You can't work out when it should be done until you've worked out who is doing what.

ebia

27th September 2007, 07:32 PM

Confirmation is something for mature folks, not babies.
Except in the Eastern Orthodox.

PaladinValer

27th September 2007, 08:13 PM

Except in the Eastern Orthodox.

I'm not Eastern Orthodox! ;)

Plus many Anglican parishes practice chrismation with Baptism, yet also have Confirmation later.

In any case, I do not believe chrismation to be the same as Confirmation.

Secundulus

27th September 2007, 08:16 PM

OK! So, one is Baptized into Christ, but confirmed into a denomination. Got it!

Yes. All Christian denominations recognize each others baptisms as valid. That is one of the few things we all agree on.

ChaliceThunder

27th September 2007, 10:32 PM

I'm not Eastern Orthodox! ;)

Plus many Anglican parishes practice chrismation with Baptism, yet also have Confirmation later.

In any case, I do not believe chrismation to be the same as Confirmation.
...unless of course it's the Bishop doing the chrismation!!

;)

higgs2

27th September 2007, 10:37 PM

Except in the Eastern Orthodox.

exactly.

ebia

28th September 2007, 01:04 AM

I'm not Eastern Orthodox! ;)
I know, but given those here who regard us as being closer to Constantinople than Rome I thought it worth pointing out.

Plus many Anglican parishes practice chrismation with Baptism, yet also have Confirmation later.

In any case, I do not believe chrismation to be the same as Confirmation.
The Eastern Orthodox I've talked about the matter with seem to regard them as one and the same thing. On the other hand, Anglicans don't seem to have a very clear agreed idea of what Confirmation is (or even who it is doing the confirming - the candidate, the bishop, or the Holy Ghost).

JohnChapter14

28th September 2007, 06:23 AM

No, Marriage is a sacrament between two people and God. If the two people have no knowledge of the vows they are making, then the marriage sacrament is meaningless and void.

Isn't Baptism a sacrament between God and the person being baptised. If the person being baptised has no knowledge of the vows they are making, then wouldn't the baptism be a sacrament that is meaningless and void?

JohnChapter14

28th September 2007, 06:25 AM

Why would you expect scripture to cover confirmation?
You should expect the Prayer Book to cover it, but not the Bible.
???

I've never read the prayer book.

But if it isn't in Scripture, perhaps it is some tradition introduced by men and not by God?

Secundulus

28th September 2007, 06:37 AM

Isn't Baptism a sacrament between God and the person being baptised. If the person being baptised has no knowledge of the vows they are making, then wouldn't the baptism be a sacrament that is meaningless and void?

Baptism has nothing to do with a person's will. It is a grace given by God by God's will.

If we had to depend on Man's will for God's grace we would be in trouble. That is a biblical concept.

JohnChapter14

28th September 2007, 06:39 AM

Baptism has nothing to do with a person's will. It is a grace given by God by God's will.

If we had to depend on Man's will for God's grace we would be in trouble. That is a biblical concept.

What about forced baptisms? What if a man forces another person to get baptised against their will? Does that mean the forced person is still baptised into Christ?

Secundulus

28th September 2007, 07:07 AM

What about forced baptisms? What if a man forces another person to get baptised against their will? Does that mean the forced person is still baptised into Christ?

The Baptism would be effectual. If that person did not later believe then I imagine that he would be damned.

But that's not really what we were talking about. Infant baptisms are different in that there are parents and Godparents present who make a covenant with God at the Baptism to raise the child in the Christian faith.

Iosias

28th September 2007, 07:46 AM

Where in N.T. does it ask us to do a Confirmation?

It doesn't however it does say 1 Timothy 6:12 "Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."

The error is making confirmation a sacrament which runs counter to Scripture and our Articles.

There are two Sacraments ordained of Christ our Lord in the Gospel, that is to say, Baptism and the Supper of the Lord. Those five commonly called Sacraments, that is to say, Confirmation, Penance, Orders, Matrimony, and Extreme Unction, are not to be counted for Sacraments of the Gospel, being such as have grown partly of the corrupt following of the Apostles, partly are states of life allowed in the Scriptures; but yet have not the like nature of Sacraments with Baptism and the Lord's Supper, for that they have not any visible sign or ceremony ordained of God. (Article 25 (http://www.eskimo.com/~lhowell/bcp1662/articles/articles.html#25))

Iosias

28th September 2007, 07:51 AM

OK! So, one is Baptized into Christ, but confirmed into a denomination. Got it!

You are baptised by the Holy Ghost into Christ and this water baptism pictures.

Our Articles:

Baptism is not only a sign of profession and mark of difference whereby Christian men are discerned from other that be not christened, but is also a sign of regeneration or new birth, whereby, as by an instrument, they that receive baptism rightly are grafted into the Church; the promises of the forgiveness of sin, and of our adoption to be the sons of God, by the Holy Ghost are visibly signed and sealed; faith is confirmed, and grace increased by virtue of prayer unto God. The baptism of young children is in any wise to be retained in the Church as most agreeable with the institution of Christ.

Confirmation is not a sacrament.

ebia

28th September 2007, 07:54 AM

Isn't Baptism a sacrament between God and the person being baptised. If the person being baptised has no knowledge of the vows they are making, then wouldn't the baptism be a sacrament that is meaningless and void?
Why? A sacrament isn't a contract, where we have to fulfill our part for God to fulfill his.

Also, as far as I can see, the vows we make at a baptism aren't actually part of the baptism itself. They aren't strictly speaking, absolutely necessary (nor part of the biblical descriptions for that matter). A baptism requires nothing more than the water, and the names of the Trinity.

Albion

28th September 2007, 10:30 AM

What about forced baptisms? What if a man forces another person to get baptised against their will? Does that mean the forced person is still baptised into Christ?

I don't know of any cases in which a person has been forced against his will--as you said--to be baptised. In any case, it is not a requirement of any sacrament that the recipient be totally aware of how God works in our lives to forgive and bless us, nor is any sacrament null and void if we who receive them are not theologians.

gtsecc

28th September 2007, 11:05 AM

I've never read the prayer book.
You're probably going to hell.

gtsecc

28th September 2007, 11:13 AM

Just kidding :)

JohnChapter14

28th September 2007, 02:53 PM

Baptism has nothing to do with a person's will. It is a grace given by God by God's will.Ah, I see now. Before, I believed it was a person's decision to do this.

Actually, the last two days something came to my mind I totally didn't expect: That a person can get into the old covenant with God through circumision----and their parents can do it for them by circumsizing them, even if they are an infant.

If so, why not Baptism?

That was my thought over the last two days.

Thank you all for enlightening me on Baptism.

Actually before, I also believed God's grace was given through Jesus sacrifice. I also believed before grace was already given before Baptism, but it was a command that we must willingly follow by dying into Christ.