My fellow CCers:

[Macrina]

Hi all.

I've been on staff for about a day now and I'm already overwhelmed with criticism and accusations. I'd like to make a request of my fellow members here to please lead the way in giving me -- and the rest of the Pastoral team -- a chance to work without people assuming the worst about us.

Those of you who know me know that orthodoxy is very important to me, and that I am an evangelical Christian with a high view of scripture and a firm belief that Jesus Christ is the only Lord and the one way, one truth, and one life. I have seen none of my team members advocating for something I consider heterodox. I have seen people working diligently to serve this community.

Please. If what I've sampled in my brief time on staff is representative of what I can expect routinely, then I have to wonder how anyone can stick it out and still find a way to serve.

I'm asking -- as your friend, fellow conservative, and sister in Christ -- extend some grace, please. I am trying. We are trying. Give us constructive input, but please don't tear us down; dealing with that takes energy away from more God-honoring efforts.

Thank you.

[GreenMunchkin]

What's happened?

[Criada]

:hug: :hug:
Praying for you, sis, and all the staff.

[bill16652]

Prayers

[Nicki4Christ]

:confused:

Dunno,

Praying for you and all the Pastors here:prayer:

[Macrina]

What's happened?

It's just all the angry rhetoric in threads, PMs, or whatever. I don't think people realize how hurtful it is, especially to those of us who AGREE with the conservative position and are TRYING to do something about it.

Angry complaints that assume the other party is the enemy will only make the other party ACT like the enemy.

What about showing some support? What about saying "thanks for putting in dozens of hours every week to deal with our criticisms?" What about an encouraging word now and then?

I'm not going to be able to function in this position if every conservative view I encounter is posted in a harsh and angry tone. Please, please consider how things sound before you write them. Please.

[GreenMunchkin]

It's just all the angry rhetoric in threads, PMs, or whatever. I don't think people realize how hurtful it is, especially to those of us who AGREE with the conservative position and are TRYING to do something about it.

Angry complaints that assume the other party is the enemy will only make the other party ACT like the enemy.

What about showing some support? What about saying "thanks for putting in dozens of hours every week to deal with our criticisms?" What about an encouraging word now and then?

I'm not going to be able to function in this position if every conservative view I encounter is posted in a harsh and angry tone. Please, please consider how things sound before you write them. Please.:scratch: What did I say? :(

[Criada]

So sorry you are getting that, sis. Is really not on - whether people agree or not, we should treat one another with love..

But - remember how much God loves you, Mac. You are very, very precious to Him - and nothing anyone says will change that!
And we love you too.
:hug:

[Macrina]

:scratch: What did I say? :(

Oh, sweetie, I'm sorry, I'm such an idiot. :doh:

When I wrote the rest of that post I wasn't thinking that I had started by quoting you. It was NOT NOT NOT aimed at you. I'm so, so, so terribly sorry. You've been very supportive.


My comments were aimed at the CC membership as a whole, as many people from this forum have been exceedingly upset and may not realize that their approach just makes life more difficult for some of us.

I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to point that at you at all. :cry:

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

:scratch: What did I say? :( I think she's just venting to us GM...I'm pretty sure it's nothing you've said.

Please, please consider how things sound before you write them. Please.
I think this is something for us all to consider in every one of the threads we post in. :hug:

[GreenMunchkin]

Oh, sweetie, I'm sorry, I'm such an idiot. :doh:

When I wrote the rest of that post I wasn't thinking that I had started by quoting you. It was NOT NOT NOT aimed at you. I'm so, so, so terribly sorry. You've been very supportive.


My comments were aimed at the CC membership as a whole, as many people from this forum have been exceedingly upset and may not realize that their approach just makes life more difficult for some of us.

I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to point that at you at all. :cry:No, hey, as long as I haven't upset you it's all good :hug::hug::hug:

Truly, am not aware of what pms you're getting, but I honestly don't think people see you as the enemy, at all. You're a member of this forum and the P doesn't change that, love :hug:

[Macrina]

I'm sorry I'm upset and venting, folks -- I just want you to see how hurtful it is to deal with so much anger.

I think you'd be surprised how many administrators actually share your concerns and are working very hard to see something done about it. Please try to extend grace to those who are working on your behalf, and when you post criticism, make sure that it's constructive and that you don't go overturning tables when it isn't necessary. Thank you.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

I'm sorry I'm upset and venting, folks -- I just want you to see how hurtful it is to deal with so much anger.

I think you'd be surprised how many administrators actually share your concerns and are working very hard to see something done about it. Please try to extend grace to those who are working on your behalf, and when you post criticism, make sure that it's constructive and that you don't go overturning tables when it isn't necessary. Thank you.
Thanks Mac...hang in there. These storms go in waves...:hug:

[Macrina]

No, hey, as long as I haven't upset you it's all good :hug::hug::hug:

Truly, am not aware of what pms you're getting, but I honestly don't think people see you as the enemy, at all. You're a member of this forum and the P doesn't change that, love :hug:

Thank you for understanding. :hug:

This is also to encourage people to think twice -- or three times, if necessary -- about the tone they use when posting in public threads. Policy-related threads are often very antagonistic and quickly become a staff-against-the-membership issue. This is not productive and is actually detrimental to the morale of some staff members -- people whom you might actually want in there having a voice. I'm just asking for consideration.

ETA: I thought this before I joined staff, but now the point has been driven home personally.

[Letalis]

You were rushed in during the middle of a huge conflict. Things won't always be this tense. :)

[GreenMunchkin]

Thank you for understanding. :hug:

This is also to encourage people to think twice -- or three times, if necessary -- about the tone they use when posting in public threads. Policy-related threads are often very antagonistic and quickly become a staff-against-the-membership issue. This is not productive and is actually detrimental to the morale of some staff members -- people whom you might actually want in there having a voice. I'm just asking for consideration.

ETA: I thought this before I joined staff, but now the point has been driven home personally.The one about affirming the Nicene Creed is becoming contentious. I don't know. Maybe it was inevitable :(

[MrJim]

...glad I'm not the source of problems this go around :clap:

[Greenthumb]

Hi all.

I've been on staff for about a day now and I'm already overwhelmed with criticism and accusations. I'd like to make a request of my fellow members here to please lead the way in giving me -- and the rest of the Pastoral team -- a chance to work without people assuming the worst about us.

Those of you who know me know that orthodoxy is very important to me, and that I am an evangelical Christian with a high view of scripture and a firm belief that Jesus Christ is the only Lord and the one way, one truth, and one life. I have seen none of my team members advocating for something I consider heterodox. I have seen people working diligently to serve this community.

Please. If what I've sampled in my brief time on staff is representative of what I can expect routinely, then I have to wonder how anyone can stick it out and still find a way to serve.

I'm asking -- as your friend, fellow conservative, and sister in Christ -- extend some grace, please. I am trying. We are trying. Give us constructive input, but please don't tear us down; dealing with that takes energy away from more God-honoring efforts.

Thank you.
:( :hug: :pray:

[Macrina]

You were rushed in during the middle of a huge conflict. Things won't always be this tense. :)

Thanks.

But see, I'm kind of a hybrid between "conservative member" and "staff" right now, due to my new status. I see things from both perspectives. I thought that if people knew how much the anger makes things more difficult for me, then perhaps they would re-think the tone.

[WalksWithChrist]

Hang in there sister!!
:wave:

I can honestly say this:
We need you!
:hug:

[KarenJoy]

:hug: :pray:

I was so glad to see you had been appointed to the Pastoral Team.

Please be assured of my on-going support and prayers.


Love

KarenJoy

[Macrina]

:hug: :pray:

I was so glad to see you had been appointed to the Pastoral Team.

Please be assured of my on-going support and prayers.


Love

KarenJoy

Thank you!

And thanks to all who have offered support, prayers, and encouragement. I know everyone can benefit from giving that to one another. :hug:

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Wow. :eek: I went to lunch and when I came back I saw everything went kablooie in the thread you were referring to Mac. :sigh: :(

[GreenMunchkin]

That was unacceptable. Just horrifying.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

That was unacceptable. Just horrifying.
It was. I can't understand why people have to hammer at others? Even if there are genuine questions...that was just not necessary.

[MrJim]

There was a time where the P meant something, but as long as one particular character (not a resident here)is considered one then the entire Pastor program is in the hopper and really means nothing.

[Macrina]

There was a time where the P meant something, but as long as one particular character (not a resident here)is considered one then the entire Pastor program is in the hopper and really means nothing.

If you have concerns, document them and send them to Constance.

But don't say it "means nothing."

[MrJim]

If you have concerns, document them and send them to Constance.

But don't say it "means nothing."

Already did but until it's he's out the P has no credibility, sorry:hug:

If there is no standard for what we are calling a Pastor in this cyber-realm then how can it mean anything:scratch: ?

[Macrina]

Wow. :eek: I went to lunch and when I came back I saw everything went kablooie in the thread you were referring to Mac. :sigh: :(

Yeah, but it's not just that thread. It's been all over the site in several different threads over the last week or so. Over the last few months, actually, getting worse and worse as time goes on.

SOMEONE needs to start taking the high road here. :sigh:

[Macrina]

Already did but until it's he's out the P has no credibility, sorry:hug:

If there is no standard for what we are calling a Pastor in this cyber-realm then how can it mean anything:scratch: ?

So, if it's that meaningless, then should I resign?

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Already did but until it's he's out the P has no credibility, sorry:hug:

If there is no standard for what we are calling a Pastor in this cyber-realm then how can it mean anything:scratch: ?
But Jim...there are other very competent people in that group of people. It's kinda offensive to those who are doing a good job and who are trying to make a difference to say they don't matter.

[MrJim]

But Jim...there are other very competent people in that group of people. It's kinda offensive to those who are doing a good job and who are trying to make a difference to say they don't matter.

Not what I'm saying~the title loses credibility, becomes meaningless. A person honestly ministering makes a difference regardless of title. But if people are allowed to be titled as site "clergy" with inadequate background checks, then that poses great danger to those that don't know.

[MrJim]

So, if it's that meaningless, then should I resign?

It may send a message to the powers that be regarding the Pastoral standard for 4U.

[Macrina]

If anyone objects to the characteristics of a team member, then the first thing to do is to calmly and rationally establish standards for the team. Pointing fingers and saying "this person doesn't live up to a standard" won't be effective unless you have already specified what standard you are working from.

[Time2BCounted]

I believe that one thing we should keep in our sites is this... not the politics of this whoile thing, but the spiritual ramifications. What christ will these pastors be administering to people seeking THE Christ? It is for souls that we ask for spiritual guidlines for our pastors and their beliefs. Souls and nothing more. I think it is wise imho, to consider that our destinations are eternal. I believe we should consider and insist on certain standards or we are remiss in our duties as watchmen. Its ok that not everyone is fitted for the battle, God has those in logistics and support, but we are all in this battle.

It is easy to begin to see it as a personal thing, which is wrong to do. But it is right to stand for foundation and guidelines that insure when someone IS looking for Christ, that they have the ability to FIND Christ and not a misrepresentation of Him. We desire they find salvation, not a preacher telling them there is no need for salation

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Not what I'm saying~the title loses credibility, becomes meaningless. A person honestly ministering makes a difference regardless of title. But if people are allowed to be titled as site "clergy" with inadequate background checks, then that poses great danger to those that don't know.
But in order to make a difference and for their voice to be heard in this case, it is better they be apart of that particular group. I for one, was very relieved and happy to see Mac was on that team because I trust her and I know she'll look after the interests of conservative Christians. If she wasnt apart of the team her effectiveness would be less.

I know what your saying though...his being a P is definately a blow to that whole group as far as I'm concerned.

[Macrina]

I believe that one thing we should keep in our sites is this... not the politics of this whoile thing, but the spiritual ramifications. What christ will these pastors be administering to people seeking THE Christ? It is for souls that we ask for spiritual guidlines for our pastors and their beliefs. Souls and nothing more. I think it is wise imho, to consider that our destinations are eternal. I believe we should consider and insist on certain standards or we are remiss in our duties as watchmen. Its ok that not everyone is fitted for the battle, God has those in logistics and support, but we are all in this battle.

It is easy to begin to see it as a personal thing, which is wrong to do. But it is right to stand for foundation and guidelines that insure when someone IS looking for Christ, that they have the ability to FIND Christ and not a misrepresentation of Him. We desire they find salvation, not a preacher telling them there is no need for salation

I understand your concern, but I think there's a better way to go about it:

1) Work for the establishment of a general, site-wide standard (perhaps the Nicene Creed).

2) Keep the discussion focused on what the standard should be, and refuse to be derailed from your larger purpose by discussions of particular individuals.

3) Remain calm and rational, which will get more people to listen to you. Beware of phrasing things in a way which might alienate people who actually agree with you.

4) Once the standard is in place, use it to evaluate individual candidates and staff members. Until the standard is policy, it can't be used in that way, although it can cause a great deal of anger.

Look for the productive way, not just loudest way.

[Time2BCounted]

I understand your concern, but I think there's a better way to go about it:

1) Work for the establishment of a general, site-wide standard (perhaps the Nicene Creed).

2) Keep the discussion focused on what the standard should be, and refuse to be derailed from your larger purpose by discussions of particular individuals.

3) Remain calm and rational, which will get more people to listen to you. Beware of phrasing things in a way which might alienate people who actually agree with you.

4) Once the standard is in place, use it to evaluate individual candidates and staff members. Until the standard is policy, it can't be used in that way, although it can cause a great deal of anger.

Look for the productive way, not just loudest way.
Imho, thats pretty much what i am doing, and i would love to see us all stand together as a body to get these standards. From what i can see, this is the surest way to get it. Also if someone challenges this desire, i see no harm in establishing the fact that they oppose it possibly because they dont believe in these standards personally. We all have an agenda no matter which side we find ourselves on, so what would be the agenda of someone who doesnt want these standards? I cant see where it would be furthering truth and real salvaiton.

On the flip side i would expect to be challenged if i were posting in a thread asking that no standard would be used.

IMHO we who believe conservatively agree we need these standards, so lets do all we can of what it takes to obtain them in clear concise words so that there is no misunderstanding...

yesterday this was posted in the thread asking for the nicene creed... by Erwin and by Constance...

post # 136
constance
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10:59 AM



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I'm the site chaplain. A minister on the site needs to teach orthodox theology. We can go around and around about creeds and who complies with what without accomplishing anything.
To be clear, if a person with a P or on the pastoral team were to say something while on staff that contradicted the Nicene Creed, I would recommend that they be removed.




post # 143
Erwin
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01:56 AM



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Quote:
Originally Posted by constance
I'm the site chaplain. A minister on the site needs to teach orthodox theology. We can go around and around about creeds and who complies with what without accomplishing anything.
To be clear, if a person with a P or on the pastoral team were to say something while on staff that contradicted the Nicene Creed, I would recommend that they be removed.
I am 100% behind constance on this issue.



The question is now, how do we go about getting this officially ratified since this comes from 2 at the top and they seem to agree with us?

Can you start something in the wiki forum or the announcement forum to address ratifying this and making it the official stand in writing so that this is something that wont be backpeddled on in the future? I will certainly join you if youll start it, and i believe everyone in conservative would back this

[Macrina]

Imho, thats pretty much what i am doing, and i would love to see us all stand together as a body to get these standards. From what i can see, this is the surest way to get it. Also if someone challenges this desire, i see no harm in establishing the fact that they oppose it possibly because they dont believe in these standards personally. We all have an agenda no matter which side we find ourselves on, so what would be the agenda of someone who doesnt want these standards? I cant see where it would be furthering truth and real salvaiton.

On the flip side i would expect to be challenged if i were posting in a thread asking that no standard would be used.

IMHO we who believe conservatively agree we need these standards, so lets do all we can of what it takes to obtain them in clear concise words so that there is no misunderstanding...

yesterday this was posted in the thread asking for the nicene creed... by Erwin and by Constance...










The question is now, how do we go about getting this officially ratified since this comes from 2 at the top and they seem to agree with us?

Can you start something in the wiki forum or the announcement forum to address ratifying this and making it the official stand in writing so that this is something that wont be backpeddled on in the future? I will certainly join you if youll start it, and i believe everyone in conservative would back this

Please feel free to start it yourself -- just be vigilant that the tone stays non-antagonistic. That will get your point across much better.

[Criada]

So, if it's that meaningless, then should I resign?
No.
And it is very far from meaningless.
This place needs more like you sis - your wisdom and fairness is wonderful, and you bring a Godly perspective where it is lacking.:hug:

Tempers are a little high, and a lot of people are saying things that they probably don't entirely mean.


Let's all think before we post - sometimes it is easy to forget that there is a real person on the other end who could be hurt... that is the trouble with on line interaction..

[Macrina]

No.
And it is very far from meaningless.
This place needs more like you sis - your wisdom and fairness is wonderful, and you bring a Godly perspective where it is lacking.:hug:

Tempers are a little high, and a lot of people are saying things that they probably don't entirely mean.


Let's all think before we post - sometimes it is easy to forget that there is a real person on the other end who could be hurt... that is the trouble with on line interaction..

Thanks. :hug:

For the record, *I* don't think it's useless. I was making a point.

[~free~]

Praying for you Mac....we need a good Pastoral team here now more than ever. :hug:

[Joykins]

:hug: it doesn't usually get much worse than this, and once the storm is over it will past. Stand firm for your integrity and that of your team. There is a lot of weird politicking and agitating that goes on in this site.

Speaking from my experience as former Ombudsman, I would recommend that you do what you need to do not to let what happens in the support forums get you down. There is always this monster drama then weeks of quiet.

[Macrina]

:hug: it doesn't usually get much worse than this, and once the storm is over it will past. Stand firm for your integrity and that of your team. There is a lot of weird politicking and agitating that goes on in this site.

Speaking from my experience as former Ombudsman, I would recommend that you do what you need to do not to let what happens in the support forums get you down. There is always this monster drama then weeks of quiet.

But what if what I need to do isn't very pastorly? ;)

[GreenMunchkin]

But what if what I need to do isn't very pastorly? ;)Heh. Pastorly sounds like parlsey.

[Macrina]

Heh. Pastorly sounds like parlsey.

I feel like parsley right now.

[GreenMunchkin]

I feel like parsley right now.That's no good. It's basil or nothing!

[GreenMunchkin]

Coriander at a push.

[Macrina]

I don't really care much for parsley, in truth. Especially when it's been sitting on a hot plate in goes semi-limp and icky.

[GreenMunchkin]

No, plus, it really doesn't taste of anything. Except for parsley. And that's not very nice. Like beer. I'd love beer if it didn't tase like beer.

Don't feel limp and platey :hug:

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Actually...anything green on my plate usually doesnt get ate. :P

[Macrina]

Don't feel limp and platey :hug:

I'm trying. :hug:

[WalksWithChrist]

If you're down with what goes on around here...just ask yourself this:

What Would Picard Do?

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

If you're down with what goes on around here...just ask yourself this:

What Would Picard Do?
^_^ Well...he'd pull down his tunic and press on to do the honorable thing. I love Picard. :D

[Macrina]

:d

The smilie won't come out right. That's supposed to be : and D next to each other, but it reverts to lower case for some reason...

huh

[MrJim]

:d

The smilie won't come out right. That's supposed to be : and D next to each other, but it reverts to lower case for some reason...

huh

That happens to me on occaison :D

[WalksWithChrist]

^_^ Well...he'd pull down his tunic and press on to do the honorable thing. I love Picard. :DThe Picard Maneuver!!

Make it so.

:clap:

[GreenMunchkin]

Dude, you got your mod-tools!! :clap::clap:

[WalksWithChrist]

Dude, you got your mod-tools!! :clap::clap:Dude!!!
:thumbsup: