The temptation

[7angel]

The serpent that tempted Eve, did speak?
it pronounced words ?, I do not believe
how serpent did make it ?

[bluemarkus]

balaams ass spoke as well

[JHM]

The "serpent" in this case was one of the fallen angels named "Gadrel"

See Book of Enoch 68 6 - 8 (Archbishop Laurence)
Enoch 68 6 - 8: The name of the third is Gadrel, he discovered every stroke of death to the children of men. He seduced Eve; and discovered to the children of men the instruments of death, the coat of mail, the shield, and the sword for slaughter; every instrument of death to the children of men. From his hand were these things derived to them who dwell upon earth, from that period for ever.

Thr story in Genesis is metaphorical.

[Tavita]

The serpent that tempted Eve, did speak?
it pronounced words ?, I do not believe
how serpent did make it ?


Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

It was the devil, or Satan who spoke to Eve. The dragon, serpent, are symbolic of Satan, and not meant to be taken literally.

[JHM]

Hi Tavita. Curious, is that your personal opinion, or is that the belief of your branch of the church? By that I mean that it was Satan as opposed to Gadrel who "seduced" Eve.

[Tavita]

Hi Tavita. Curious, is that your personal opinion, or is that the belief of your branch of the church? By that I mean that it was Satan as opposed to Gadrel who "seduced" Eve.


I don't have a denomination, that verse in Revelation came to mind so I posted. The OP was interested in how the serpent could speak and just needed to know that it wasn't a literal 'serpent'.

I don't remember hearing of Gadrel... though I should as I have read the book of Enoch. Was Gadrel ever described as a 'serpent'?

[JHM]

No, not specifically. I think however the term "serpent" could be applied to any of them. Like I said, Genesis is metaphorical on that subject.

For what it is worth, since the Revised Standard Version uses "came into" and the New International Version uses "went to" to describe sexual cohabitation between the fallen angels and the daughters of man; and the Revised Standard Version uses the term "visited" for whatever passed between God and Sarai that allowed her to become pregnant by Abraham; It is possible that "seduced", (as performed by a fallen angel), means raped.

[7angel]

There is no comparison point, God made pronounce elementary words to the donkey of Balaam.

The serpent elaborated a seduction form, but it was not by means of words.
The temptation also enters by the eyes, The rest, makes the imagination of the man.

What the serpent did make to tempt Eve?

[JHM]

I gather you know the answer. Go ahead, I am interested.

[bluemarkus]

i have read in another thread on foru.ms that satan seduced eve in the garden of eden, i found it to be true.

[JHM]

Well I haven't seen the thread which you are talking about so I can't comment on it.

What I would suggest, to anyone wishing to debate this subject is that they first open their bible to Leviticus 16 v 1-10 read that and tell me what it means. Be advised that different versions will sometimes give varying names of the party that the second goat is for.

[Nadiine]

The serpent that tempted Eve, did speak?
it pronounced words ?, I do not believe
how serpent did make it ?
I believe that the animal itself wasn't speaking at all, but a spirit that 'inhabited it' or took it over and then spoke through it.

We've seen demons speaking through people who don't even sound like the person; they know other foreign languages and so on.

I don't think the animals just spoke on their own, I think a spirit (angel or demon) could use the animal to speak through.

[JHM]

@ Nadine : What does Leviticus 16 1-10 mean? Answer : It is utterly meaningless untill you read the Book of Enoch. When you read the Book of Enoch, you will not only know what Leviticus 16 1-10 means; you will also know that Eve was "seduced" by one of the fallen angels named Gadrel.

[7angel]

Do you think that only it is possible to be seduced by means of words?

God said to Adam and Eve who did not eat of the fruit of the tree of the good and evil because they would die irremediably.

Meditate this possibility; Eve saw the serpent raise the tree and to eat its fruits and did not die, the rest was imagination of Eve.
because the malignant Spirit is born with the man, he is in its way to think and to make the things.
Otherwise the man could not be attemped.
What happens when a woman goes to a store?

Does not feel attemped by everything what sees?

The same it happens with the man when it sees a pretty woman, the rest makes its imagination.

In addition, Adam and Eve did not die but that were expelled from the paradise lived many years and later they died like us.

Then the death consists of living in the Earth, although you do not believe it

[bluemarkus]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/05/BadReligionHowCouldHellBeAnyWorse.jpg/598px-BadReligionHowCouldHellBeAnyWorse.jpg

[7angel]

Genesis 3

16 To the woman he said: "I will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master." 17 To the man he said: "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree of which I had forbidden you to eat, "Cursed be the ground because of you! In toil shall you eat its yield all the days of your life. 18 Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to you, as you eat of the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your face shall you get bread to eat, Until you return to the ground, from which you were taken; For you are dirt, and to dirt you shall return."

[zeke37]

Hi 7angel,
[quote=7angel;39138486]Do you think that only it is possible to be seduced by means of words?

No,

God said to Adam and Eve who did not eat of the fruit of the tree of the good and evil because they would die irremediably.

they would die in the day that they partook....

Meditate this possibility; Eve saw the serpent raise the tree and to eat its fruits and did not die, the rest was imagination of Eve.

no there was the "touch" as well, a euphemism for to lay sexually with a woman.

because the malignant Spirit is born with the man, he is in its way to think and to make the things.
Otherwise the man could not be attemped.
What happens when a woman goes to a store?

Does not feel attemped by everything what sees?

that happens with men to....don't grocery shop when you are hungry.

The same it happens with the man when it sees a pretty woman, the rest makes its imagination.

women have that same problem, as Eve was seduced by what she found pleasing to the eye

In addition, Adam and Eve did not die but that were expelled from the paradise lived many years and later they died like us.

Adam and Eve died in the day that they were formed. Adam's age is stated as being 930 years, and no man lives past 1000 years....

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

and

2Pet 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.



Then the death consists of living in the Earth, although you do not believe it

??? Death is the absence of life from earth (but life in heaven) until after the Lord returns....when He brings the dead believers with Him.


in His service
c

[7angel]

Hi Zeke

I did not mention sex, in this case is irrelevant,
All, men and women we are attemped according to our desires, wealth, fame, power, also sex, these things interact to each other, is the reason of the 10 orders.

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
This is another point, I believe

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

@ Nadine : What does Leviticus 16 1-10 mean? Answer : It is utterly meaningless untill you read the Book of Enoch. When you read the Book of Enoch, you will not only know what Leviticus 16 1-10 means; you will also know that Eve was "seduced" by one of the fallen angels named Gadrel. There are a number pagan and Gnostic books of Enoch. The only Judaeo Christian Book of Enoch was done by RH Charles, and even in that one are some problem areas do to Gnostic tampering.