Lazarus and the rich man - Proves the point many are called, but few are chosen

[marke]

Why the confusion?

Is this so hard to understand? No, however this story flys in the face of "you are saved by your faith" preached by those who believe what they want to believe and shout down (note the wrong fruit/actions) those who actually take the time to read and try and conform themselves to the NT.

Hogwash! You are NOT saved by your faith. You are saved by following and acting upon your faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ. All others chasing the $$ at the expense of the poor will share the fate of the rich man.

The story couldn't be any simpler. If people would quit listening to ministers of error who are more concerned with the tithe and their political power so they can buy jet fuel and $1,000 suits (their fruit) than they are saving souls and read the NT instead, the meaning of the story would be as clear as the nose on their face.

You'll recall the Apostle Peter wasn't able to walk on the water with Jesus. Why? The person chosen by Jesus to head His church was lacking enough faith. Read that again... The person chosen by Jesus to head His church was lacking enough faith to walk on the water even with Jesus at his side.

The people here on this forum who tell us "our faith is what saves us" and yet ignore ALL THE TEXT THAT GIVE CONDITIONS FOR SALVATION including the red letters have less faith than a mustard seed (don't see many mountains flying into the sea) according to Jesus. This is the faith they are counting on for salvation??? Even the Apostle Paul was concerned he wouldn't make it. This "I can do what I want because I'm saved by my faith" is a sickness within the church that needs to end before it leavens more of the whole loaf.

The actions of Jesus are the way to salvation. It's not those who hear the Word, but those who act upon the Word. Did you notice the red letters. Many are called, but few are chosen. The rich man wasn't chosen. I would bet the rich man had faith he would be chosen. Again, the words of Jesus sound true "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven". So much for being saved by your faith.

There are many lost souls on these forums whose nonsense leads people astray. Jesus warn us against following them and even tells us how to discern who are followers and who are just leaves blowing in the wind with no grounding in the teachings of Jesus whatsoever (as evidenced by what they espouse and support). It wouldn't hurt to look up the scripture to remind yourselves so your discernment improves if you are uncertain.

The words of the person chosen by Jesus Himself to lead His church should not be taken lightly...

2Pe 3:15 And think of the long-suffering of our Lord as salvation (as our beloved brother Paul also has written to you according to the wisdom given to him

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).

Again, so much for being saved by your faith.

2Pe 3:17 Therefore, beloved, knowing beforehand, beware lest being led away with the error of the lawless, you fall from your own steadfastness.

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace and in knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

It's appalling that so many can't seem to grasp this simple lesson regarding Lazarus and the rich man. It's the same as the parable of the seeds. NOT EVERY ONE WHO PROFESSES JESUS AS LORD WILL MAKE THE CUT. Jesus tells us this himself.

Isn't it time to focus on just what it takes to be among the chosen instead of focusing on when Jesus is returning or what dispensation this is or ....?

The time is now. Understand the lesson of Martha and Mary.

God bless.

[sandman]

The other day I received a notice in the mail from American Express, stating that my check payment was returned insufficient funds. I thought… what the heck….. I haven’t used the card in six months, and I always pay on-line.
After closer examination I realized that this was not addressed to me ……heck it wasn’t even in the right town.

So what’s this got to do with salvation …..Actually there is a very simple correlation here.

None of what you have referenced or quoted is addressed to the Church of the Body of Christ. And much like the letter I received, we will not be cast back due to insufficient faith ….for we have been given the faith of Jesus Christ.

The seven Church epistles Romans, I & II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians and I & II Thessalonians are addressed directly to those of us in this age of Grace, the Church administration; those of us born again in the body of Christ

The four Gospels give the account of the life and walk of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ from four different perspectives Matthew as the King Mark as the Servant Luke as the Man and John as the Son
Although the Gospels are vitally important in our understanding of what Jesus Christ accomplished by his walk, death, and resurrection it must be noted that Jesus Christ came to minister to Israel the Bride. Israel rejected him and killed their King, Jesus {the Bridegroom}. The church of the bride is at this time held in abeyance and picks up again in Revelation The Gospels are not addressed directly to us; they are for our learning as is all of the Old Testament. All of the Old Testament including the four Gospels is addressed to either the Jews or the Gentiles but the Epistles as noted above are specifically addressed to the Church of the Body.

I & II Peter Were written to the Christian Jews of the dispersion, “the twelve tribes scattered abroad”. Those born again who seemed to want to put themselves under the law

[Nadiine]

Is this so hard to understand? No, however this story flys in the face of "you are saved by your faith" preached by those who believe what they want to believe and shout down (note the wrong fruit/actions) those who actually take the time to read and try and conform themselves to the NT.

Hogwash! You are NOT saved by your faith.
I think God would beg to differ with your statements:

Ephesians 2:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=56&chapter=2&verse=8&version=50&context=verse)
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Luke 7:50 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=7&verse=50&version=50&context=verse)
Then He [Jesus] said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

Romans 5:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=5&verse=1&version=50&context=verse)
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Acts 26:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=26&verse=18&version=50&context=verse)
to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

Romans 3:26 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=26&version=50&context=verse)
to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 3:28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=28&version=50&context=verse)
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith
apart from the deeds of the law.

Philippians 3:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=57&chapter=3&verse=9&version=50&context=verse)
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

2 Timothy 3:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=62&chapter=3&verse=15&version=50&context=verse)
and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=67&chapter=1&verse=9&version=50&context=verse)
receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls

1 John 5:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=5&verse=4&version=50&context=verse)
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Colossians 2:12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=58&chapter=2&verse=12&version=50&context=verse)
buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Hebrews 11:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=11&verse=6&version=50&context=verse)
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Salvation is by grace thru FAITH in Christ Jesus - when that faith is GENUINE, you see a properly working and functioning believer who has the Spirit and is then producing the FRUIT that comes from having His Spirit within us.
We then will continue in the faith.

1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things

[FreeinChrist]

Since the fist Lazarus and the rich man thread was closed with a mod hat and will probably stay closed because it is filled with flames...I sure hope folks post better here.

[Nadiine]

Since the fist Lazarus and the rich man thread was closed with a mod hat and will probably stay closed because it is filled with flames...I sure hope folks post better here.
I'm not even sure what a flame is anymore - since they changed the rules around and allowed more things to be said, I'm frankly confused at this point.

It would help if the thread would stay on topic tho, hopefully this one will.

[MichaelTheeArchAngel]

I'm not even sure what a flame is anymore - since they changed the rules around and allowed more things to be said, I'm frankly confused at this point.

It would help if the thread would stay on topic tho, hopefully this one will. I don't see any point in talking about old flames.^_^ I feel like Im doing well if I can keep a friend.:wave:

[Nadiine]

I don't see any point in talking about old flames.^_^ I feel like Im doing well if I can keep a friend.:wave:
hahaha ;) :P
I hear that! I kinda lost track of all the rules with everything changing so much last month. I guess I should go back and read them all again.

take care :)

[JHM]

For what is worth, I have to agree with Marke. Faith is a prerequisite for salvation. But having faith does not justify wrongdoing. If a homeless person accosts you in the street begging for change, that he or she may eat, is it right to ignore them? Not only by faith; but by our acts we are judged.

[Nadiine]

For what is worth, I have to agree with Marke. Faith is a prerequisite for salvation. But having faith does not justify wrongdoing. If a homeless person accosts you in the street begging for change, that he or she may eat, is it right to ignore them? Not only by faith; but by our acts we are judged.
(you should agree with God in what is written in His word and it's spelled right out that FAITH is salvation).

The ACTS come after conversion; they are the outward demonstration of the INWARD conversion.
Otherwise, WORKS SAVE. Works do not save, works are produces AFTER we attain the Holy Spirit. IF works saved, then God "OWES" you your salvation bcuz you did work to attain them & it's His obligation to pay you for the works.
Also, as Eph 2 teaches, if WORKS saved, THEN YOU CAN GO BRAGGING about how good your works were that got you saved.
Go brag about how great you did... then I'd love to know 'HOW MANY GOOD WORKS" does it take to save you???
You're left guessing bcuz it doesn't say anywhere.
A person that shows no signs of repentance and lifestyle changes are showing the fruit of a soul that is most likely not regenerated in Christ. They haven't become that new Creature in Him.
The change isn't occuring bcuz the FAITH IS DEAD.

Works without FAITH is Dead and Faith without Works are DEAD. Dead means, it isn't existant; no conversion happened.
Christians DO sin, this is why Jesus teaches us that He chastens His children who are disobedient, but that He doesn't chasten illegitimate children (those who aren't His).

Upon salvation our works follow. Without salvation, we're doing everything in our own strength & power and that's how people fall away eventually; they left bcuz they never had the inward power of the SPIRIT doing the works thru them.

[JHM]

You say : Faith is salvation.

The ACTS come after conversion; they are the outward demonstration of the INWARD conversion.

Works without FAITH is Dead and Faith without Works are DEAD. Dead means, it isn't existant; no conversion happened.
Christians DO sin, this is why Jesus teaches us that He chastens His children who are disobedient, but that He doesn't chasten illegitimate children (those who aren't His).

It seems to me we are in agreement. I said faith is a prerequisite, (meaning it must come first). I also said we are not only judged by faith but also by our acts. I then gave an example of an act situation. If a person claiming to be saved habitually refuses such beggars when their means are sufficient to give them what they ask for; is that not "Faith without works"?

[Nadiine]

You say : Faith is salvation.

The ACTS come after conversion; they are the outward demonstration of the INWARD conversion.

Works without FAITH is Dead and Faith without Works are DEAD. Dead means, it isn't existant; no conversion happened.
Christians DO sin, this is why Jesus teaches us that He chastens His children who are disobedient, but that He doesn't chasten illegitimate children (those who aren't His).

It seems to me we are in agreement. I said faith is a prerequisite, (meaning it must come first). I also said we are not only judged by faith but also by our acts. I then gave an example of an act situation. If a person claiming to be saved habitually refuses such beggars when their means are sufficient to give them what they ask for; is that not "Faith without works"?
Ok, then what you're saying is you "lose salvation" at each sin?
I'm trying to understand your point...

[JHM]

My point was one of several that you made. Faith without works is dead.

[Nadiine]

My point was one of several that you made. Faith without works is dead.
Ok, my apology for not fully grasping what you were saying there. Since I didn't fully grasp that, I was taking the works statements to mean that Christians basically don't continue to sin -- or prove they don't have faith...
It's hard sometimes when I'm doing alot of reading and study to grasp all the points people are making.
When I start missing points that are made, it's time for me to call it a day and let my eyes and brain rest! :wave: :sleep:

[JHM]

No problem.