Conservative Army! We have a battle ahead!

[Lisa0315]

http://foru.ms/t6142238-refuge.html#post39050746

Make your voices heard loud and clear. This cannot be tolerated!

Lisa

[Letalis]

Lisa, please don't be hasty in rallying the troops.

[Lisa0315]

Lisa, please don't be hasty in rallying the troops.

Why?

Lisa

[Time2BCounted]

got my attention

[rmw8855]

This is very disturbing Lisa. Even if it was created with the best of intentions (which I doubt) the way it was done implies wrong doing. Secrecy, Restricted Access, and no accountability should not be allowed anywhere in the forum.

I also agree with your comments regarding Standing Strong in the name of Jesus. We can not just hand this site over to Satan, we need to fight. "Greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world."

[Andy Broadley]

Seen it and posted.

We do indeed have a battle on our hands and I'm right here ready to fight

[Lisa0315]

This is very disturbing Lisa. Even if it was created with the best of intentions (which I doubt) the way it was done implies wrong doing. Secrecy, Restricted Access, and no accountability should not be allowed anywhere in the forum.

I also agree with your comments regarding Standing Strong in the name of Jesus. We can not just hand this site over to Satan, we need to fight. "Greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world."

Amen!

[Lisa0315]

Seen it and posted.

We do indeed have a battle on our hands and I'm right here ready to fight

Right On, Brother! :amen:

Lisa

[Andy Broadley]

Right On, Brother! :amen:

Lisa



And it's gonna be a big fight from what I see.


All hands on deck for this one

[Time2BCounted]

Lisa,
If i were to begin a post addressing this concern directly to Erwin, first of all, how many would join me? We cound do it as a semi-petition, asking for clarification from Erwin, and exaclty where his line on 'promotion' begins and ends. We could press for a scriptural decision from that point.

We could also pm pr post in possibly likeminded forums, such as the one for fundamentalists to see if they would join us as one. I believe our goals and desires in this matter would be very close to the same if not the same..

We must be careful not to seem as martyrs, but as one body, standing for Christ and addressing the issues. Id we are to stand as an army, let it be together with one coheirant stand as a body.

I think that if we touched on this with members from a few differant forums, those of us who are likemanded would be the majority. It could be that we have such division as conservative from fundy, just to divide our strength.


thoughts?

[Andy Broadley]

Lisa,
If i were to begin a post addressing this concern directly to Erwin, first of all, how many would join me? We cound do it as a semi-petition, asking for clarification from Erwin, and exaclty where his line on 'promotion' begins and ends. We could press for a scriptural decision from that point.

We could also pm pr post in possibly likeminded forums, such as the one for fundamentalists to see if they would join us as one. I believe our goals and desires in this matter would be very close to the same if not the same..

We must be careful not to seem as martyrs, but as one body, standing for Christ and addressing the issues. Id we are to stand as an army, let it be together with one coheirant stand as a body.

I think that if we touched on this with members from a few differant forums, those of us who are likemanded would be the majority. It could be that we have such division as conservative from fundy, just to divide our strength.


thoughts?


I agree. We have to be together on this.

And we need someone to organise and lead it.

[Lisa0315]

Petitions have something of a very yucky past on CF. Petiitions have been rounded to get rid of staff, all kinds of stuff. Really bad pre-07-07-07 stuff. Probably that kind of thing is what led Erwin to make his changes. I do not recommend a petition at this time.

I think there is enough Senior Staff outrage to get this changed, probably not eliminated, but definitely changed.

There was always a conflict on how to best deal with Moriah. Help Moriah vs harm others. As Steve said, amateur therapists are really NOT the way to go on this. I just do not see an internet site as having the capacity to deal with this.

If anything, this should be left to the Pastoral Team, not recovery, and not Ministry. The Pastors here are the only ones who stand a chance at helping Moriah. However, I think they need to come up with some very good rules of what they are going to do with her, and what they are not going to try to attempt.

I just have no idea what is the right answer on this one. Go with God, my friend. Whatever you do, I will try to support.

Keep in mind that a moderator must be above reproach though. This limitation has held some back in the past, so think it through and pray over it before you do anything.

Part of the problem is that with one post, you can start something that escalates beyond anything you ever intended, so wisdom regarding the volotile nature of members is needed always.

Lisa


Lisa,
If i were to begin a post addressing this concern directly to Erwin, first of all, how many would join me? We cound do it as a semi-petition, asking for clarification from Erwin, and exaclty where his line on 'promotion' begins and ends. We could press for a scriptural decision from that point.

We could also pm pr post in possibly likeminded forums, such as the one for fundamentalists to see if they would join us as one. I believe our goals and desires in this matter would be very close to the same if not the same..

We must be careful not to seem as martyrs, but as one body, standing for Christ and addressing the issues. Id we are to stand as an army, let it be together with one coheirant stand as a body.

I think that if we touched on this with members from a few differant forums, those of us who are likemanded would be the majority. It could be that we have such division as conservative from fundy, just to divide our strength.


thoughts?

[Time2BCounted]

Points well taken.

For now prayer and consideration is needed foremost. I do believe there is a way that we can not only express our concerns, but do it in strength, with love and compassion for all, and in such a way as to show the majority wants a few things defined first, and that since we consider this our 'home', we also believe we deserve a 'voice' in this issue.

If things are not clearly defined first the strokes may become broader and braoder until in reality it is anything goes. Also unless these things are enforced, there's no point in holding to vain promises.

I am still very amazed that in one thread the statement was made that sonnets to satan are beautiful, and this wasnt acted upon under the heading of 'promoting' that which is not christian, or even that which is against Christ. This in itself causes me to consider future ramifications if we dont address them.

I do agree we need much wisdom in this, much prayer, much consideration and discussion, but also i feel that IF we are to stand on this issue, it must be done while its fresh and has taken less root.

Would anyone be adverse to me referrring those in the fundy forum to this thread?

Are there any other forums anyone would recommend contacting?

[Andy Broadley]

Points well taken.

For now prayer and consideration is needed foremost. I do believe there is a way that we can not only express our concerns, but do it in strength, with love and compassion for all, and in such a way as to show the majority wants a few things defined first, and that since we consider this our 'home', we also believe we deserve a 'voice' in this issue.

If things are not clearly defined first the strokes may become broader and braoder until in reality it is anything goes. Also unless these things are enforced, there's no point in holding to vain promises.

I am still very amazed that in one thread the statement was made that sonnets to satan are beautiful, and this wasnt acted upon under the heading of 'promoting' that which is not christian, or even that which is against Christ. This in itself causes me to consider future ramifications if we dont address them.

I do agree we need much wisdom in this, much prayer, much consideration and discussion, but also i feel that IF we are to stand on this issue, it must be done while its fresh and has taken less root.

Would anyone be adverse to me referrring those in the fundy forum to this thread?

Are there any other forums anyone would recommend contacting?


I agree. Action this day, as Churchill said.

I personally have no problem with you rounding up support from wherever you can for this fight

You could try the Baptists maybe as well.

[rmw8855]

Lisa,

I am concerned with how the debate is going right now. It is generating reports, people are calling each other names, etc. All that will accomplish is prove Moriah right for wanting this secret forum - a place where she is free from attack. We need to deal with this civilly and right now that isn't happening in alot of cases. I'm not saying we should roll over & take this, but we need to fight it in a Godly manner.

[Lisa0315]

Lisa,

I am concerned with how the debate is going right now. It is generating reports, people are calling each other names, etc. All that will accomplish is prove Moriah right for wanting this secret forum - a place where she is free from attack. We need to deal with this civilly and right now that isn't happening in alot of cases. I'm not saying we should roll over & take this, but we need to fight it in a Godly manner.

I agree hon. I posted as much. Always has been our problem. We wouldn't have 30K denominations if we could handle civil discussion about sensitive issues.

Lisa

[Rhamiel]

wait, is there a section for satanist here? I am confused is that what this was saying?

[Lisa0315]

wait, is there a section for satanist here? I am confused is that what this was saying?

It appeared to be a Satanist section, secret, and only accessible to about three members and a few staffers.

However, as it turns out, it is a secret recovery forum for those who are in the occult.

There is a need for such a forum. There was no need for the super sekresy about it. It is also being determined if there is a single person on this whole site who is qualified to deal with those who want to be delivered.

Lisa

[Rep Daddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR3EQfksXKM

[bill16652]

It appeared to be a Satanist section, secret, and only accessible to about three members and a few staffers.

However, as it turns out, it is a secret recovery forum for those who are in the occult.

There is a need for such a forum. There was no need for the super sekresy about it. It is also being determined if there is a single person on this whole site who is qualified to deal with those who want to be delivered.

LisaIf there is a need for those that truly want to or are recovering then it needs to be open not hidden. This is exactly why we need notification. Erwin knew when he set this up that it would raise the hackles of the Christians but he did it anyway. Is their abuse any worse than some of the other subjectys in recovery? I think not. This is a Christian board that is supposedly run by the members, there is no room for this no matter who started it. Any forum needs to be accountable and open to supervision. This is no different. Sunce the thread was shut down, was the forum also until this can be ironed out?

[Gregged]

If there is a need for those that truly want to or are recovering then it needs to be open not hidden. This is exactly why we need notification. Erwin knew when he set this up that it would raise the hackles of the Christians but he did it anyway. Is their abuse any worse than some of the other subjectys in recovery? I think not. This is a Christian board that is supposedly run by the members, there is no room for this no matter who started it. Any forum needs to be accountable and open to supervision. This is no different. Sunce the thread was shut down, was the forum also until this can be ironed out?

I made a (nice I hope) post in that thread because I don't think Moriah is ready to counsel anybody on these issues. Maybe I'm wrong... but not from what I see.

As for Erwin... he said after 7-7-7 in one of the threads that he could have done things better than just suddenly changing things overnight. Yet he still does the same things all the time - where is the wisdom? The number of times I've heard that things are so bad in the teen forum since the changes, where they can't discuss things of a Christian nature without threads being disrupted - that is bad enough. But there's chaos all over the forum. Meanwhile what happens? We get stars above our reps, photos and blogs on the front page etc. Whoppee! I'd rather he be a man, sorted out his forum, and make clear what he wants it to represent. One thing's clear - I'm one of many who won't pay another penny into his pockets.

(rant over - back to nice mode again) :)

[Andy Broadley]

The problem, it seems, is that the section was et up to aid 'recovery' yet it strongly appears that those involved have little or no interest in that. Reading their blogs makes for interesting, and frightening, reading

[bill16652]

I made a (nice I hope) post in that thread because I don't think Moriah is ready to counsel anybody on these issues. Maybe I'm wrong... but not from what I see.

As for Erwin... he said after 7-7-7 in one of the threads that he could have done things better than just suddenly changing things overnight. Yet he still does the same things all the time - where is the wisdom? The number of times I've heard that things are so bad in the teen forum since the changes, where they can't discuss things of a Christian nature without threads being disrupted - that is bad enough. But there's chaos all over the forum. Meanwhile what happens? We get stars above our reps, photos and blogs on the front page etc. Whoppee! I'd rather he be a man, sorted out his forum, and make clear what he wants it to represent. One thing's clear - I'm one of many who won't pay another penny into his pockets.

(rant over - back to nice mode again) :)You and many others I am on another forum and keep hoping that this one can be saved but everytime I turn around it seems to only get worse and worse. I dont care who was for the changes, they were not good

[bill16652]

The problem, it seems, is that the section was et up to aid 'recovery' yet it strongly appears that those involved have little or no interest in that. Reading their blogs makes for interesting, and frightening, readingBut true, there are those here that are Christian that dont believe this sort of thing goes on or even that there is evil out there. Sad but true, the spiritual warfare is on on this board and it is getting stronger and stronger, we need warriors or we need to leave, one of the two

[Andy Broadley]

But true, there are those here that are Christian that dont believe this sort of thing goes on or even that there is evil out there. Sad but true, the spiritual warfare is on on this board and it is getting stronger and stronger, we need warriors or we need to leave, one of the two

I have joined the same site as you Bill, but I'm not prepared to give up CF as easily as that

I'm gonna fight.

[£amb]

The only question I have with all this mess is can anyone suggest a secret forum if they feel like they've been treated badly, stalked or harassed. What if the Catholics say they get tired of the Protestants and want their own forum, and vice versa. That was only an example, but this is my thought on what this whole thing could make people want to do.

There...that's just my 2 cents on this whole fiasco...just wanted to get that off my chest...:)

[bill16652]

I have joined the same site as you Bill, but I'm not prepared to give up CF as easily as that

I'm gonna fight.I will to as long as there are people willing and most dont leave which at this point is a real possibility

[bill16652]

The only question I have with all this mess is can anyone suggest a secret forum if they feel like they've been treated badly, stalked or harassed. What if the Catholics say they get tired of the Protestants and want their own forum, and vice versa. That was only an example, but this is my thought on what this whole thing could make people want to do.

There...that's just my 2 cents on this whole fiasco...just wanted to get that off my chest...:)And you are exactly right. If I was in the recovery foorumns and had to share some of the things they share and saw this I would be demanding my own forum as well set up in the same way

[Andy Broadley]

The only question I have with all this mess is can anyone suggest a secret forum if they feel like they've been treated badly, stalked or harassed. What if the Catholics say they get tired of the Protestants and want their own forum, and vice versa. That was only an example, but this is my thought on what this whole thing could make people want to do.

There...that's just my 2 cents on this whole fiasco...just wanted to get that off my chest...:)

I wonder if we can have a secret forum where only Christians can go......because parts of Cf are starting to feel like the ghetto now. There are fewer and fewer places that we can call our own

[Andy Broadley]

I will to as long as there are people willing and most dont leave which at this point is a real possibility

To quote a certain former Austrian Corporal...Last man and last bullet Bill.

[Andy Broadley]

It's says it all when a supposedly Christian site has people gearing up to be what is to all intents and purposes a Christian resistance movement.

[Lisa0315]

http://foru.ms/showthread.php?p=39060624#post39060624

[Andy Broadley]

http://foru.ms/showthread.php?p=39060624#post39060624

A very inadequate resaponse in my opinion. Some very meaningful replies to it though

[Auntie]

It's says it all when a supposedly Christian site has people gearing up to be what is to all intents and purposes a Christian resistance movement.


Agreed.

[Rep Daddy]

Read the LDS rules lately. They are well dug in.
Cult Friendly

[Time2BCounted]

A Christian resistance we may perhaps see, spiritually speaking at this board.

I would recommend though that people not react rashly or on the spur of the moment.

Satan speciallizes in divide and conquor, and we dont want to hand Him the battle. This isnt a time for us to be rogues (and i speak as a part time rogue and a PROTESTant of the things we see developing in the church.)

There is strength in unity, and when one acts alone they dont have the strength behind them that one standing with a body would have.

IMHO we must keep cool heads knowing God will lead us to profit and to stand, and the things written will come to pass because God is true. If we must witness prophecy cpome to pass we can still rejoice that God is true and has it in control and vengence IS His and justice WILL be served in the end. At the same time, even He is long suffering not willign that any should perish.

Clear cut strategy is called for and this begins with the 'intelligence' work. In this case, what exactly are we going to stand for? How will we stand as a forum, and will we have others joining us in this stand? Can we put aside the smaller differances in simillar congregations and stand for something really important together as a body?

I believe these would be the most effective ways, and then even if our voices are heard but ignored, we will know our stand was right and nobel and conducted in such a way that no individual need be banned.

I do believe though that if this is a concentrated organized effort, understanding specific goals and having specific strategies and working toward them as a body, our voice will be strong.

Those who 'remember' are only a danger to those who would rewrite history.

[Lisa0315]

A Christian resistance we may perhaps see, spiritually speaking at this board.

I would recommend though that people not react rashly or on the spur of the moment.

Satan speciallizes in divide and conquor, and we dont want to hand Him the battle. This isnt a time for us to be rogues (and i speak as a part time rogue and a PROTESTant of the things we see developing in the church.)

There is strength in unity, and when one acts alone they dont have the strength behind them that one standing with a body would have.

IMHO we must keep cool heads knowing God will lead us to profit and to stand, and the things written will come to pass because God is true. If we must witness prophecy cpome to pass we can still rejoice that God is true and has it in control and vengence IS His and justice WILL be served in the end. At the same time, even He is long suffering not willign that any should perish.

Clear cut strategy is called for and this begins with the 'intelligence' work. In this case, what exactly are we going to stand for? How will we stand as a forum, and will we have others joining us in this stand? Can we put aside the smaller differances in simillar congregations and stand for something really important together as a body?

I believe these would be the most effective ways, and then even if our voices are heard but ignored, we will know our stand was right and nobel and conducted in such a way that no individual need be banned.

I do believe though that if this is a concentrated organized effort, understanding specific goals and having specific strategies and working toward them as a body, our voice will be strong.

Those who 'remember' are only a danger to those who would rewrite history.

Amen! It matters not whether we win or lose, but whether we stood strong. We may lose our very lives, but better that than to lose our very souls.

Lisa

[Andy Broadley]

Amen! It matters not whether we win or lose, but whether we stood strong. We may lose our very lives, but better that than to lose our very souls.

Lisa


HALELUJAH!!!!!:amen:


There isn a song we have in the Army which kinda seems appropriate here.

1.
We're in God's Army and we fight
Wherever wrong is found;
A lowly cot or stately home
May be our battle ground.
We own no man as enemy,
Sin is our challenged foe;
We follow Jesus, Son of God,
As to the war we go.

Chorus
We shall not lose the fight of faith,
For Jesus is our Lord,
We lay all carnal weapons down
To take his shining sword.

2.
When our invading forces march,
In every tongue we sing;
We are of every class and race,
Yet one in Christ, the King.
Our Master's darkest battlefield,
Upon a lonely height,
Reveals God's sword to everyone,
A cross of love and light.

3.
His Kingdom cometh not by force
But, by the gentle power
Of righteousness and truth and grace,
He triumphs every hour.
Sometimes his happy people march
With banners floating high,
Though often in secluded ways,
They fight that self may die.

4.
The good fight is the fight of faith,
Heaven's victories are won
By men unarmed, save with the mind
That was in Christ, the Son.
As morning overwhelms the night,
So truth shall sin o'erthrow,
And love at last shall vanquish hate
As sunshine melts the snow.

[Lisa0315]

Now, I know where I know you from!!! Salvation Army Guy. Remember when we were talking about how the SA started a revival here in the USA? Was that you?

Lisa

HALELUJAH!!!!!:amen:


There isn a song we have in the Army which kinda seems appropriate here.

1.
We're in God's Army and we fight
Wherever wrong is found;
A lowly cot or stately home
May be our battle ground.
We own no man as enemy,
Sin is our challenged foe;
We follow Jesus, Son of God,
As to the war we go.

Chorus
We shall not lose the fight of faith,
For Jesus is our Lord,
We lay all carnal weapons down
To take his shining sword.

2.
When our invading forces march,
In every tongue we sing;
We are of every class and race,
Yet one in Christ, the King.
Our Master's darkest battlefield,
Upon a lonely height,
Reveals God's sword to everyone,
A cross of love and light.

3.
His Kingdom cometh not by force
But, by the gentle power
Of righteousness and truth and grace,
He triumphs every hour.
Sometimes his happy people march
With banners floating high,
Though often in secluded ways,
They fight that self may die.

4.
The good fight is the fight of faith,
Heaven's victories are won
By men unarmed, save with the mind
That was in Christ, the Son.
As morning overwhelms the night,
So truth shall sin o'erthrow,
And love at last shall vanquish hate
As sunshine melts the snow.

[Andy Broadley]

Now, I know where I know you from!!! Salvation Army Guy. Remember when we were talking about how the SA started a revival here in the USA? Was that you?

Lisa

lol...I dunno, Maybe. I talk a lot....:blush:

[Auntie]

GREAT song, Andy, thanks, it did my heart good to read that. :thumbsup:

[Andy Broadley]

Hey P86. Great to see you here.:wave:

[Time2BCounted]

http://foru.ms/showthread.php?p=39078814#post39078814

^ this is a good time to let your voice be heard imho

[bill16652]

ok and there is another song that is appropriate as well called The Battle Belongs to the Lord. First line is in heavenly armor we enter the land, the battle belongs to the Lord

[GreenMunchkin]

http://foru.ms/showthread.php?p=39078814#post39078814

^ this is a good time to let your voice be heard imhoThe hubris in that case is just astonishing and am absolutely convinced that's a sock. I suggest we don't respond to her any further.

[KarenJoy]

The hubris in that case is just astonishing and am absolutely convinced that's a sock. I suggest we don't respond to her any further.

i agree with you

[GreenMunchkin]

i agree with youYou get the same feeling, Karen?

[Time2BCounted]

I agree
I find it interesting though that the only ones i have ever known to use the term 'blessed be' are wiccans and pagans. Now i have nothing against a wiccan or a pagan at all, but i do believe it could go a long way to explain her position in favor of this new forum as it is. I do think it is important to know who is endorsing. Never have i seen this salutation used by someone that is not occultish, but i can send you to many places to show it is used by them as a common greeting

[KarenJoy]

You get the same feeling, Karen?

yes

[Time2BCounted]

hmm

look at this

http://foru.ms/showthread.php?p=39082247#post39082247

i guess moriah will be 'ministering'?

[Lisa0315]

Yeah, I saw that myself. :eek:

Lisa

[Debi1967]

Please make note that Administration is looking into the many concerns of the members and will be addressing them shortly. Until such time please cool your heels and wait for their consensus.

Lovingly In Christ
Debi1967

[Lisa0315]

Uhm Deb? Sorry, girl, but you really shouldn't be throwing mod hats here. First of all, Super A's do not mod. Second, there was nothign worth throwing a mod hat about. I am asking that you delete that please.

Lisa

[Time2BCounted]

Well i have to say the mod hat surprises me. I see no harm to disclose the fact it is being stated that moriah will be 'ministering' in this new forum. We dont know what to ask clarification on if we dont know the facts. Now we know we need clarification on whether or not she will be allowed to 'minister' and if so why?

[GreenMunchkin]

Another mod hat! Debi, why the mod hats?? :scratch:

[Jim47]

Please make note that Administration is looking into the many concerns of the members and will be addressing them shortly. Until such time please cool your heels and wait for their consensus.

Lovingly In Christ
Debi1967



Debbie. I know you didn't intend any harm but you have no moderating authority at all. Please do not use your tool bar for anything.

[Simon_Templar]

Honestly,

In the whole change up of the site over the last few months, I said relatively little about the policy changes and such, I made no comments on the intentions of the staff or Erwin etc.

In this issue there was some misunderstanding, such as the name Beth She'an, which is the name of a historical city, probably meaning "house of tranquility" though its meaning isn't absolutely certain. If it were really a reference to satan in hebrew if would be Ha-Shatan, or Ha-Satan.

I think Erwin and the staff involved had good intentions. However, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Frankly, I find the idea of secret, and/or "private" forums to be a complete act of hypocrisy, devoid of integrity based on what we were all told regarding the "new CF" now "4U".
We were specifically told that one of the tenets of the guiding vision of the new forums was no closed or hidden forums. This, among other things, caused alot of problems for staffers who devoted time and effort to making this site work. It exposed them to a great deal of public criticism and attack. I know people who were literally heart sick about this stuff.
But apparently its ok to do that to one group of people, but other groups must not have the same rules applied to them. The hypocrisy here.. intentional or no, disgusts me.

Then, on top of that the entire attitude of the staff in dealing with this issue is just as bad. The supposed basis of our new forum community is democracy and openness.. the people decide how things will be... but yet the basic response of the staff on this issue has been at every turn, essentially telling the large group of concerned people to shut up and wait until the staff decides how its going to be.

now, this "openness" and democratic ideal where the people decide was the entire justification for changes that have alienated and seriously hurt many people. Then you turn around and simply ignore all that whenever it suits you?? this makes me seriously angry.

Is there any integrity involved in the leadership of this forum? Do the "rules" and supposed foundational vision of this forum ACTUALLY apply to anyone other than us lowly plebian members?

[NewGuy101]

I'm thinking about changing my sn to foru.ms.is.apostate...what do ya'll think? I think it's fits the theme.

[Hentenza]

hmm

look at this

http://foru.ms/showthread.php?p=39082247#post39082247

i guess moriah will be 'ministering'?

All will be happy to know that Erwin closed the forum earlier today. I am glad that cooler heads prevailed. :clap::clap:

[Lisa0315]

Well, I have personally done a 360 degree turn on my original position. However, I don't think anyone will have to worry about it much longer. Moriah and company will probably leave 4U for a safer place at another site.

Lisa

[Hentenza]

That would be great if it happens because, frankly, this website is not equipped to handle that bunch.

[Lisa0315]

That would be great if it happens because, frankly, this website is not equipped to handle that bunch.

Yes, the two thousand or so Christians here are not prepared to handle 3 people who are trying to deal with the forces of evil.

Sorry, Henry. I am not upset with you.

Lisa

[Hentenza]

Yes, the two thousand or so Christians here are not prepared to handle 3 people who are trying to deal with the forces of evil.

Sorry, Henry. I am not upset with you.

Lisa

I know that you are not upset with me so no worries. I do have a big problem with the way that the forum was being set up but I do not have a problem with the forum itself. The pastoral group needs to be heavily involved and I am not yet convinced that the forum will do any good other than allow the continued posting style of some of the members.

[ContentInHim]

Well, I have personally done a 360 degree turn on my original position. However, I don't think anyone will have to worry about it much longer. Moriah and company will probably leave 4U for a safer place at another site.

Lisa
Lisa - a 360 turn means you're where you started! :P

Honey, I have to so disagree with you. There's no way that 4U is equipped to handle something like Moriah. I'm really sorry for her but it is best handled professionally and I know that there are professionals who would come to her if she couldn't go to them.

Her whole story sounds like those awful Anne Rice New Orleans novels - remember Lasher? Maybe you didn't read them but I did before I was saved, I'm ashamed to say. Prurient interest primarily - disgusting now.

If she isn't willing to be saved, she should not be delivered. If she isn't willing to be saved and delivered, she should not be posting here. :(

[Lisa0315]

I know that you are not upset with me so no worries. I do have a big problem with the way that the forum was being set up but I do not have a problem with the forum itself. The pastoral group needs to be heavily involved and I am not yet convinced that the forum will do any good other than allow the continued posting style of some of the members.

Well, they do not want to be a fishbowl with everyone gaping at them. There is no way to insure privacy for them. I suggested selecting one Staff member to oversee the forum to make sure it was not a place for the promotion of Satanism, but nobody even listened.

Lisa

[ContentInHim]

Well, they do not want to be a fishbowl with everyone gaping at them. There is no way to insure privacy for them. I suggested selecting one Staff member to oversee the forum to make sure it was not a place for the promotion of Satanism, but nobody even listened.

Lisa
But the sexual forums have been open to view for years. There's even a recovery from the sex industry. What could be more shameful than that? They post openly to their credit.

A secret forum to enable Moriah will not help her. It will entrench whatever is bedeviling her. :(

[Lisa0315]

But the sexual forums have been open to view for years. There's even a recovery from the sex industry. What could be more shameful than that? They post openly to their credit.

A secret forum to enable Moriah will not help her. It will entrench whatever is bedeviling her. :(

I don't know about that. There is more to it than members know. The problem and what makes me so angry is STAFF does have all the information on Moriah. I have alluded to it. I am not permitted to speak of it due to confidentiality.

Let me just say this: Take every single recovery forum on here and every single thing there is to be recovered from and do it all to a child all behind the terrorism of Satanic ritual. How screwed up do you think you would be?

Lisa

[JPPT1974]

It ain't the first time that
We have faced them nor it
Won't be the last time you know.
Christians have faced battles before.

[bill16652]

Lisa - a 360 turn means you're where you started! :P

Honey, I have to so disagree with you. There's no way that 4U is equipped to handle something like Moriah. I'm really sorry for her but it is best handled professionally and I know that there are professionals who would come to her if she couldn't go to them.

Her whole story sounds like those awful Anne Rice New Orleans novels - remember Lasher? Maybe you didn't read them but I did before I was saved, I'm ashamed to say. Prurient interest primarily - disgusting now.

If she isn't willing to be saved, she should not be delivered. If she isn't willing to be saved and delivered, she should not be posting here. :(How do we know if do not try? Do we trust the power of God? How do we know that Moriah doesnt want delivered? Is that her or what is in her speaking? I say give it a chance with oversight. We need to extend Gods love to these people. I realized that my battle wasnt with them but rather with how it was handled and with Admin. Thatis where we need to take the fight to and give this a chance to work.

[GreenMunchkin]

I don't know about that. There is more to it than members know. The problem and what makes me so angry is STAFF does have all the information on Moriah. I have alluded to it. I am not permitted to speak of it due to confidentiality.

Let me just say this: Take every single recovery forum on here and every single thing there is to be recovered from and do it all to a child all behind the terrorism of Satanic ritual. How screwed up do you think you would be?

LisaWell, am privy to all the information, and I agree this isn't the place for her to get the help she needs. Dude, you were *furious* when you heard about it, and now you're furious with people who still have issues with it. That isn't right. For the most part, people are willing to support Moriah, but not on her terms. The comparison has been made to alcoholism, so we'll go with that. An alcoholic cannot set the parameters for their own healing, because the addiction doesn't want them to heal.

You know I was an occultist in a major way, and what I read of that forum wasn't recovery or healing, it was vile and rage and outright Satanic. That doesn't help her focus on Christ because stuff like that isn't of Christ.

[Addicted2~Jesus]

I am real bad behind apperently.. I've had my FIL bouncin round wit me in the truck for a week now an I have fallen way way behind on everthin, can anyone sum this up for me real quick? The link is to a closed thread that didn't seem to have a whole lot of clues to exactly what er where was bein talked bout, but I'm tired so probly missed it anyways.

[Tangeloper]

I made a (nice I hope) post in that thread because I don't think Moriah is ready to counsel anybody on these issues. Maybe I'm wrong... but not from what I see.

As for Erwin... he said after 7-7-7 in one of the threads that he could have done things better than just suddenly changing things overnight. Yet he still does the same things all the time - where is the wisdom? The number of times I've heard that things are so bad in the teen forum since the changes, where they can't discuss things of a Christian nature without threads being disrupted - that is bad enough. But there's chaos all over the forum. Meanwhile what happens? We get stars above our reps, photos and blogs on the front page etc. Whoppee! I'd rather he be a man, sorted out his forum, and make clear what he wants it to represent. One thing's clear - I'm one of many who won't pay another penny into his pockets.

(rant over - back to nice mode again) :)
Oh dear I had missed the part about Moriah wanting to counsel people. From reading some of her posts around the forums, I am VERY concerned by this. I sincerely do not think she has "recovered" herself to the point of being help to others. Some of her posts just 2 weeks ago showed a very strong slant towards, well shall we say, darkness??? I really don't think amateurs should be tackling these issues. An internet site is NOT the place for honest-to-goodness counseling. Especially with such a serious issue! I'm surprised Erwin doesn't see the risk he would run. People involved in Satanic Ritual Abuse are VERY needing in professional assistance and an amatuer could do serious harm to these people mentally. Even to the point where Erwin and this site -- especially as it's set up as a secret forum -- could be held liable should someone be hurt! NOT a good idea, IMHO. I see someone said the thread was closed -- I'm only halfway through this thread, so forgive me if this has already been answered, but is this forum for "recovering" Satanists and Occultists still operational? I am more concerned about the fact that people could be truly harmed mentally by a well-meaning but un-educated (in psychology and ritual abuse issues) person.

Gosh, never before has the saying the road to Hell is paved with good intentions more appropriate perhaps than in this very situation!!!!

[Tangeloper]

I don't know about that. There is more to it than members know. The problem and what makes me so angry is STAFF does have all the information on Moriah. I have alluded to it. I am not permitted to speak of it due to confidentiality.

Let me just say this: Take every single recovery forum on here and every single thing there is to be recovered from and do it all to a child all behind the terrorism of Satanic ritual. How screwed up do you think you would be?

Lisa
Oh dear... I had a feeling that was the case, Lisa! See the post I just put up before this one... I guess I was right -- I'm SO disheartened to hear that I seem to have seen clearly what was troubling her... Maybe I should be happy in a way though -- it means that I am closer to God than I have been before! I am able to see clearly when someone is under the influence of evil forces -- whether they be spirits, or the remembrance of flesh and blood evildoers, or perhaps even both. Thank you Lord, for opening my eyes!!! I will pray for Moriah -- only God and a well-educated psychologist/psychiatrist who specializes in these things can truly help someone who has been through what she has most likely suffered. We actually might do her way more harm than good in setting this little forum up for her! I think Erwin should think LONG and HARD about that!!!

I continue to thank God everyday that the abuse I suffered was NOT like this!

PS -- I think it was ContentInHim that mentioned that the sexual assault & Sexual abuse recovery forums are open. You're right! I myself have posted there upon occasion. Thank the Lord I am not at a point in my life where I need these forums, but I am glad they are here. I think it helps for it to be open because then you can't hide and if you break your silence here it could help people overcome the undeserved shame they feel!

[FoundInGrace]

How do we know if do not try? Do we trust the power of God? How do we know that Moriah doesnt want delivered? Is that her or what is in her speaking? I say give it a chance with oversight. We need to extend Gods love to these people. I realized that my battle wasnt with them but rather with how it was handled and with Admin. Thatis where we need to take the fight to and give this a chance to work.

amen to that!

[ContentInHim]

I don't know about that. There is more to it than members know. The problem and what makes me so angry is STAFF does have all the information on Moriah. I have alluded to it. I am not permitted to speak of it due to confidentiality.

Let me just say this: Take every single recovery forum on here and every single thing there is to be recovered from and do it all to a child all behind the terrorism of Satanic ritual. How screwed up do you think you would be?

Lisa
I think you would be very screwed up and probably possessed. But there is healing in Jesus! And that healing can be immediate. Period. Think of all he and his disciples healed from spirits. They were healed and forgiven of their sins even without their permission.

OK, assuming that Moriah is possessed, there are professionals like Bob Larson who will come to her to deliver her - but she must want to be delivered. If she is not possessed, there are professional psychologists and psychiatrists to treat her. There is no way that people on this board, with the possible exception of Father Rick whom I've met and love to pieces, can help her. Just listening to her is enabling her. If she can't or won't control her posts, then how can the board help? :scratch:

[ContentInHim]

I am real bad behind apperently.. I've had my FIL bouncin round wit me in the truck for a week now an I have fallen way way behind on everthin, can anyone sum this up for me real quick? The link is to a closed thread that didn't seem to have a whole lot of clues to exactly what er where was bein talked bout, but I'm tired so probly missed it anyways.
A2J - you are so fortunate in having been in a truck for the past few days. Follow the links because I would really like your opinion. A secret hidden forum has been created (and is now closed, I believe) to help those recovering from the occult. One poster is currently possessed and enjoys demon sex in great and gory detail and this forum has been created to remove her posts from public view. But a secret forum is not according to the new FU guidelines and the whole thing smells fishy and just one more way for the devil to get a toehold here. Actually, he's currently got more than a toehold - he's put together a choir. :(

[ContentInHim]

How do we know if do not try? Do we trust the power of God? How do we know that Moriah doesnt want delivered? Is that her or what is in her speaking? I say give it a chance with oversight. We need to extend Gods love to these people. I realized that my battle wasnt with them but rather with how it was handled and with Admin. Thatis where we need to take the fight to and give this a chance to work.
Wow, do I ever trust in the power of God. He's healed me of so much in the last two years - by instruction of you for one in WOF, btw! :hug: But this is different and requires face to face, don't you think? I read posts of all the people who have met Moriah and say she's a sweetheart. Well, they must have walked on eggshells since she can turn on a dime here. :eek: And all we have is her assertions of her past. She's not saved and those who are not saved lie all the time. I used to - I lied about everything - even stuff that didn't matter. :o kwim? We have simply no idea what's going on with her except on her say so.

Where are the people near her physically? Looks like she lives around DC. So does my brother who could help with some real deliverance but she says she's afraid of churches. WHY? Someone near her needs to talk turkey with her - not about her sin but about her affliction! CF is too remote to do so. Even if we are real people and can pray for her, we are not in front of her to confront and remove the spirits! :cry:

[Simon_Templar]

Yes, the two thousand or so Christians here are not prepared to handle 3 people who are trying to deal with the forces of evil.

Sorry, Henry. I am not upset with you.

Lisa
yes the thousands of christians here in this place are not equiped to deal with something like that for the following reasons.

First of all, there is little to no way to verify anything either from the people who would be counselling and assisting these people, or from these people themselves, thus you essentially have a double blind situation where you can never really know for sure whether the people you are trusting to help are remotely qualified to do so, nor wether the people you are supposed to be helping are actually what they claim to be.

Secondly, the kind of help they need, simply can't be done over the internet. You can't realistically, effectively, counsel someone, and engage in deliverance ministry with them from a thousand miles away.

To imagine that such things are going to effectively work in an internet forum is simply irresponsible.

[Lisa0315]

I think you would be very screwed up and probably possessed. But there is healing in Jesus! And that healing can be immediate. Period. Think of all he and his disciples healed from spirits. They were healed and forgiven of their sins even without their permission.

OK, assuming that Moriah is possessed, there are professionals like Bob Larson who will come to her to deliver her - but she must want to be delivered. If she is not possessed, there are professional psychologists and psychiatrists to treat her. There is no way that people on this board, with the possible exception of Father Rick whom I've met and love to pieces, can help her. Just listening to her is enabling her. If she can't or won't control her posts, then how can the board help? :scratch:

I agree that we cannot deliver her, but we can pray for her and we can help her build a level of trust to see real live help.

Lisa

[rmw8855]

Lisa,

I was looking around the website last night. Did you know there is a prayer / support thread for Moriah over in the Spiritual Warfare subforum?

[Macrina]

I haven't read up on this thread, but in skimming I see that there are still a lot of concerns out there.

I'm brand-new on the Pastoral Team, and in fact came on board when I started participating in discussions about this, so I share most of your concerns.

We will be doing everything we can to make sure this forum does not promote the occult, but rather promotes exit from the occult. Also, the format and administration will be changing. I don't have full details on it yet, as there are things to hammer out, but please know that your concerns are shared and will be addressed.

:)

[Lisa0315]

Lisa,

I was looking around the website last night. Did you know there is a prayer / support thread for Moriah over in the Spiritual Warfare subforum?

No, but I also started one in Prayer Requests. I will see if I can get all of them to come over. Mine is a 24 hour sign up so that she and all of the others will get prayer 24 hours a day.

Jesus said "this kind" required prayer and fasting.

Lisa

[Macrina]

Please, if I may make a personal request, pray for the Pastoral and Recovery teams and others who are involved in decision-making here. Please pray that we will be given wisdom as to how and to what extent this website is able to serve/help those in this situation. Also please pray that we will be given the wisdom to develop protocols which will guard against ungodly influences while still allowing for the healing process to happen. And last, please pray that we will all find ways to work together (lots of people across multiple teams) to do something which fits within the site's rules, considers all member concerns, and above all, honors Christ.

Thanks for your prayers!

[Rep Daddy]

Please, if I may make a personal request, pray for the Pastoral and Recovery teams and others who are involved in decision-making here. Please pray that we will be given wisdom as to how and to what extent this website is able to serve/help those in this situation. Also please pray that we will be given the wisdom to develop protocols which will guard against ungodly influences while still allowing for the healing process to happen. And last, please pray that we will all find ways to work together (lots of people across multiple teams) to do something which fits within the site's rules, considers all member concerns, and above all, honors Christ.

Thanks for your prayers!


Will pray. Hard decisions.

[GreenMunchkin]

Lisa, I was thinking, can we change the name of the thread? As it is, it's really confrontational-sounding.

[bill16652]

I support Lisa on this, I didnt at first but after prayer I realized that the problem is not with them it is with Admin doing things wrong, that is our battle. As to helping, I would pray that there are at least a few who can or what is the good of this site? Yes we can fellowship and all the rest but if it isnt about souls and helping people, why are we here? Is this difficult, yes. Is God big enough to do it? Yes. It took a lot of courage for these peopel to come forward and I applaud them for it, and for those willing to help, pray, and intercede. We need some powerful prayer warriors involved in this for them and for the ones working with them. In the meanrtime lets make our point that on a site that is supposedly run by members and open in all things that secret decisions are not acceptable nor is hiding WIKI's and votes that affect the whole site. If they want member participation please meet us halfway and at least inform us. As for the forum I want to see it happen so that they can be helped. May God give us all peace and clear direction in what to do.

[bill16652]

Lisa, I was thinking, can we change the name of the thread? As it is, it's really confrontational-sounding.I agree but lets face it, that is how the admin has treated us to this point. When people are not informed and things are done in secret then it becomes confrontational.

[Macrina]

t In the meanrtime lets make our point that on a site that is supposedly run by members and open in all things that secret decisions are not acceptable nor is hiding WIKI's and votes that affect the whole site. If they want member participation please meet us halfway and at least inform us.

This point has been made and received, and steps are being taken to be more visible and accountable.

[GreenMunchkin]

I agree but lets face it, that is how the admin has treated us to this point. When people are not informed and things are done in secret then it becomes confrontational.I don't think anyone went out of their way to mislead, Bill. I really don't. And even if they did, we have to be responsible for how we respond, and am very uncomfortable with the concept of being some sort of army going in for battle. It just doesn't sit right.

[Macrina]

I agree but lets face it, that is how the admin has treated us to this point. When people are not informed and things are done in secret then it becomes confrontational.

Please don't generalize about "the admin." There was a miscommunication amongst administrators which led to this problem. Even if you think some of us are the enemy, please realize that not all of us are.

[Rep Daddy]

Why are we called soldiers and issued a sword of TRUTH which isd the Word of God!

We do not fight people but the rampant error needs the Word of God to cut it away and defeat it.

We are not isused the WIKI of God.

The spiritual battle here has never been more real IMO.

[bill16652]

I don't think anyone went out of their way to mislead, Bill. I really don't. And even if they did, we have to be responsible for how we respond, and am very uncomfortable with the concept of being some sort of army going in for battle. It just doesn't sit right.I understand what you are saying and I dont think we are at this point on this issue but lets face it we are an army, a spiritual army and we are engages in warfare every day whetehr we realize it or not and in answer to the last post I have seen the thread discussing member participation and am heartened to see that being discussed. Prayers for good decisions.

[bill16652]

Please don't generalize about "the admin." There was a miscommunication amongst administrators which led to this problem. Even if you think some of us are the enemy, please realize that not all of us are.I do not think of anyone as the enemy except the one who really is. This is not the first time this has happened and Erwin said it wouldnt again otherwise I would say oops but this type of reaction has been seen before. My prayer is that it wont ever be seen again. I do not think there was a conspiricy or anything, I think mistakes were made and we all make them but these are mistakes that we all need to learn from and not repeat.

[GreenMunchkin]

Why are we called soldiers and issued a sword of TRUTH which isd the Word of God!

We do not fight people but the rampant error needs the Word of God to cut it away and defeat it.

We are not isused the WIKI of God.

The spiritual battle here has never been more real IMO.

I understand what you are saying and I dont think we are at this point on this issue but lets face it we are an army, a spiritual army and we are engages in warfare every day whetehr we realize it or not and in answer to the last post I have seen the thread discussing member participation and am heartened to see that being discussed. Prayers for good decisions.No, you're both right, and maybe I'm being silly, but I don't think the thread title needs to be so harsh (that's not quite the word am searching for, but... :scratch:) in order for us to come against what's happening. It's an angry title, and we mustn't be angry, we have to be calm, and Spirit-filled. Which is what we are, don't get me wrong. Am just a little uncomfortable with the title.

[Macrina]

Well, yesterday was my first day on the job and I spent my entire day off dealing with these issues. And there were other admins who spent much longer hours than me yesterday. For a volunteer position, there's a lot of effort going into this, and positive support is key in order to keep going with what is essentially a thankless job.

[Rep Daddy]

Jesus was Spirit-filled and angry when he cleansed the Temple.
The two can co-exist. We have to make sure they do.

[Rep Daddy]

Well, yesterday was my first day on the job and I spent my entire day off dealing with these issues. And there were other admins who spent much longer hours than me yesterday. For a volunteer position, there's a lot of effort going into this, and positive support is key in order to keep going with what is essentially a thankless job.

You are right. Been there done that. Prayers for you.

[GreenMunchkin]

Jesus was Spirit-filled and angry when he cleansed the Temple.
The two can co-exist. We have to make sure they do.I know... I'm probably just being silly :hug:

[bill16652]

You have my support and everyone else as well in prayer, and nhopefully by allowing members the opportunity to have real input it will make it easier. I pray for wisdom, and guidance, and peace, and that once a decision is made it will be Godly and acceptable to all and that you and the others not be flooded and overwhelmed whioch you must be by now.

[Macrina]

Jesus was Spirit-filled and angry when he cleansed the Temple.
The two can co-exist. We have to make sure they do.

Did you notice that there were also times when Jesus was Spirit-filled and not angry?

[Rep Daddy]

Well, yesterday was my first day on the job and I spent my entire day off dealing with these issues. And there were other admins who spent much longer hours than me yesterday. For a volunteer position, there's a lot of effort going into this, and positive support is key in order to keep going with what is essentially a thankless job.

Did you notice that there were also times when Jesus was Spirit-filled and not angry?

Absolutely.

[MrJim]

Lisa, I was thinking, can we change the name of the thread? As it is, it's really confrontational-sounding.

I would agree here, my inner mennonite ;) has been avoiding this thread.

There is certainly a place for spiritual battle, but I do believe that battle is not held on the fields of words so much as it is done on knees in private closets of prayer and fasting.

If done properly there is place for discussion, though it often comes out as marshalling a shout/vote contest. Sheer numbers do not create a "victory", for our battle isn't against flesh and blood.

I have put on my old anabaptist icon~the way of force that is often a chosen path for Christians to "defend" the faith isn't a path I really see. It's "enabling" to take the scene of Christ overthrowing the tables in the temple as an excuse to bust heads but NOTE He didn't tell the disciples to do it, nor did they follow his example. That was for God alone to do~

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

There are ways of confronting issues, but I'm not convinced in the "declaring war" way (though I am quoted in using this phrase in another website which will remain nameless) except that it is done in the manner that Christ told us, with prayer and fasting. Arguing and verbal jousting, except done with love (and not spite, vengeance nor anger), is devil's work. From the outside it looks like religious one-upsmanship. Ours is a matter of faith + love, not of scholastic rhetoric. I can't convince someone of truth with words and creeds and fancy word-slinging.

1Cor13: 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

[Hentenza]

Jesus also said,

Mat 4:10
10Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

Mark 1:25
25"Be quiet!" said Jesus sternly. "Come out of him!" 26The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek.

Luke 4:8
8Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.

Mat 17:18
18Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment.



Mat 9:25
25When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the evil spirit. "You deaf and mute spirit," he said, "I command you, come out of him and never enter him again."



Luke 4:41
41Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ.



Jesus rebuked Satan and the evil spirits decisively and harshly. There was no compassion shown to the devil and his evil ones.

[GreenMunchkin]

I know, Hen, but honestly, all the arguing and meanness is so very overwhelming at the moment. I just want CC to be a sanctuary.

[Hentenza]

I agree GM. The verses that I posted have to do with rebuking evil through Jesus example. We can not fight evil by becoming evil. We have to raise above the rest.

[Macrina]

Jesus rebuked Satan and the evil spirits decisively and harshly. There was no compassion shown to the devil and his evil ones.

Yes, but can you honestly say that this description applies to every person who has been treated harshly in all this drama? If you think it does, you've missed some conversations.

[GreenMunchkin]

I agree GM. The verses that I posted have to do with rebuking evil through Jesus example. We can not fight evil by becoming evil. We have to raise above the rest.I started a thread in CR, and I kind of think staff board-wide need to make an active effort to start quelling what's going on. There's a real spirit of strife here now.

[Hentenza]

Yes, but can you honestly say that this description applies to every person who has been treated harshly in all this drama? If you think it does, you've missed some conversations.

No, Macrina. This description does NOT apply to all that have been involved. Again, we can't fight evil with evil. Evil has to be fought with love because Satan can't stand it.
Please understand that people have seen this website progressively go in a direction that causes quite a bit of concern. People will vent, they will get on attack mode when presented with what they perceive to be an evil option.
It seems that communication is a big problem. I honestly think that if we work on improving communication we can prevent 99% of all this heartache.

[Macrina]

It seems that communication is a big problem. I honestly think that if we work on improving communication we can prevent 99% of all this heartache.

We are agreed there.

What we communicate, when, how, and to whom makes a big difference.

[Time2BCounted]

If i might offer an opinion.

Over the internet, written word can sometimes be 'misread' in spirit.

Imho, straightforwardness doesnt equal hatred or spite, and i see many posts that are strightforward and unspiteful. I believe we are all hoping and praying for good resolutions and that souls are first and foremost in our considerations. My concern for instance is which 'Christ' will people see and receive coming to this board?

Another consideration imho is, with so many sudden changes, going against promices and the will of the majority have transpired, how can we assure more wont?
To me this is now a very important question

Communication has been blamed by both sides of the issue, and its time to nail down some definitions imho, to salvage what we can and keep things from sinking deeper.

I dont think in most cases any ill will is involved.

[Macrina]

Over the internet, written word can sometimes be 'misread' in spirit.


This is true. And it would be gracious of us to go above and beyond our obligations and actively work to prevent such misreading. We could take the "high road" and extend grace while standing for truth. Such a spirit, rather than pushing others away, might inspire them to discover more of what we have to offer.

Also, kind words and words of encouragement might go a long way with staff. :)

[A New Dawn]

Honestly,

In the whole change up of the site over the last few months, I said relatively little about the policy changes and such, I made no comments on the intentions of the staff or Erwin etc.

In this issue there was some misunderstanding, such as the name Beth She'an, which is the name of a historical city, probably meaning "house of tranquility" though its meaning isn't absolutely certain. If it were really a reference to satan in hebrew if would be Ha-Shatan, or Ha-Satan.

I think Erwin and the staff involved had good intentions. However, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Frankly, I find the idea of secret, and/or "private" forums to be a complete act of hypocrisy, devoid of integrity based on what we were all told regarding the "new CF" now "4U".
We were specifically told that one of the tenets of the guiding vision of the new forums was no closed or hidden forums. This, among other things, caused alot of problems for staffers who devoted time and effort to making this site work. It exposed them to a great deal of public criticism and attack. I know people who were literally heart sick about this stuff.
But apparently its ok to do that to one group of people, but other groups must not have the same rules applied to them. The hypocrisy here.. intentional or no, disgusts me.

Then, on top of that the entire attitude of the staff in dealing with this issue is just as bad. The supposed basis of our new forum community is democracy and openness.. the people decide how things will be... but yet the basic response of the staff on this issue has been at every turn, essentially telling the large group of concerned people to shut up and wait until the staff decides how its going to be.
now, this "openness" and democratic ideal where the people decide was the entire justification for changes that have alienated and seriously hurt many people. Then you turn around and simply ignore all that whenever it suits you?? this makes me seriously angry.

Is there any integrity involved in the leadership of this forum? Do the "rules" and supposed foundational vision of this forum ACTUALLY apply to anyone other than us lowly plebian members?

I would like to respond to this, at least the portion I highlighted above, and if it has already been responded to, then I apologize.

Staff did not know about this except for the very few top Recovery Admins. The Omega team was asked to give input about the possibility of such a forum, and the response was not favorable. None of them was aware of the actual formation of the forum. And staff, in general, is not for the forum, as it was created and as it evolved (over the few days it was open). There are a few individuals on staff who support the forum, but they do not speak for staff. I don't believe that anyone has basically said "Shut up and see how it turns out" and been representative of staff in doing so. If someone were to speak for the majority of staff, it would be to say that the forum needs to be closed (which it was) and reworked so that the issues could be resolved.

(And according to the sources that we have been able to find, Beth Shean was the City of Tranquility, Beth She'an (with the apostrophe) was a tribute to satan in the occult literature.)

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

It seems that communication is a big problem. I honestly think that if we work on improving communication we can prevent 99% of all this heartache.

This is very true Hen...I wish people would take it to heart. :sigh:

And I'd like to know hammering at someone is supposed to be productive. :doh:

[Andy Broadley]

Why are we called soldiers and issued a sword of TRUTH which isd the Word of God!

We do not fight people but the rampant error needs the Word of God to cut it away and defeat it.

We are not isused the WIKI of God.

The spiritual battle here has never been more real IMO.

Jesus was Spirit-filled and angry when he cleansed the Temple.
The two can co-exist. We have to make sure they do.


I have to agree with Steve on this. I postsed an old Army song either earlier in this thread or in another similer one here in CC. I would repeat some of those words now


1.
We're in God's Army and we fight
Wherever wrong is found;
A lowly cot or stately home
May be our battle ground.
We own no man as enemy,
Sin is our challenged foe;
We follow Jesus, Son of God,
As to the war we go.

Chorus
We shall not lose the fight of faith,
For Jesus is our Lord,
We lay all carnal weapons down
To take his shining sword.

2.
When our invading forces march,
In every tongue we sing;
We are of every class and race,
Yet one in Christ, the King.
Our Master's darkest battlefield,
Upon a lonely height,
Reveals God's sword to everyone,
A cross of love and light.

3.
His Kingdom cometh not by force
But, by the gentle power
Of righteousness and truth and grace,
He triumphs every hour.
Sometimes his happy people march
With banners floating high,
Though often in secluded ways,
They fight that self may die.

4.
The good fight is the fight of faith,
Heaven's victories are won
By men unarmed, save with the mind
That was in Christ, the Son.
As morning overwhelms the night,
So truth shall sin o'erthrow,
And love at last shall vanquish hate
As sunshine melts the snow.