Eschatology and the "Rapture" Through Jewish Lenses! Please Respond!

[AnthonyForChrist]

I have been increasibgly convinced that a serious look into the Jewish roots of the faith can help mainstream Christianity correct some of these seemingly false doctrines it's throwing around. With all these arguements concerning the timing of the rapture and the various interpretations of the prophetic books, I'm left rather perplexed. I understand I need to carefully examine the Scriptures for myself, but perhaps you guys could give me a more "Jewish outlook" on these subjects, and possibly clear up some commonly-held misconceptions? Simchat_Torah and others?

[SonWorshipper]

Hi, Anthony, why don't you list some of your questions to make it easier to address? There are so many theories, pre, mid, post, and if there is to be a Rapture at all. The timetable of Daniel, when the time of the gentiles ends ( or ended ;) ) , When Messiah would come. One time, two, and how? And many, many more.

[Sabian]

What rapture?

[AnthonyForChrist]

What rapture?
Are you insinuating that the rapture is a false doctrine, not Biblically-supported?

[Sabian]

I'm not really sure what others here Believe. I think most believe is some sort of rapture but this is what I see.



Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say
to the reapers,
Gather together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but
gather the wheat into
my barn." (Matt. 13:30)

The tares representing the wicked
are the ones first taken and destroyed. The righteous remain until the
firstfruits harvest.

YAHSHUA Himself spelled out His parable of the tares when His disciples
begged an explanation.

Matthew 13:37-43 reads, "He answered and said unto them, He that sows
the good seed is the
Son of man; the field is the world; the good seed are the children of the
kingdom; but the tares
are the children of the wicked [one]; the enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the
end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are
gathered and burned
in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send
forth his angels, and
they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do
iniquity; And shall
cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Then shall the
righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who has ears
to hear, let him
hear."

Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Here the word "end" is the
Greek telos and means the actual end as a final limit. In other words, those
who would be True
Believers will be called on to be faithful all the way to either the end of their
lives or to the last
event of the whole end-time sequence.

And think about this.
Israel had to suffer the first three plagues in Egypt—the blood, frogs, and
lice—before they were
protected from the last seven. They were not taken out of the tribulation in
which they found
themselves, either.

Israel escaped the rest of the plagues while living in the midst of the
Pandemonium.

Looks like a fine example to me of what is to come.

In studying Scriptural examples, I've come to a different
understanding of what it means to be delivered from tribulation, or
saved from tribulation. The people of Scripture who faced tribulation
were never just whisked away from the trouble. Instead, a way was
made for them to survive the trouble. When YHWH struck Egypt
with the ten plagues, the Israelites weren't taken away, they were
right there in the middle of the city. But they were shielded from the
plagues. When the armies of Egypt were bearing down on them, they
weren't taken, but the waters were parted and they escaped. Noah
and his family were not taken away from the flood, they endured
every day of it, but were brought safely through.

I believe Scripture says we will experience the same type of
"deliverance" from the tribulations of the final days.

Psalms 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High
shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of YHWH, [He is] my refuge and my fortress: my El; in
him will I trust.
3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, [and]
from the noisome pestilence.
4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt
thou trust: his truth [shall be thy] shield and buckler.
5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; [nor] for the
arrow [that] flieth by day;
6 [Nor] for the pestilence [that] walketh in darkness; [nor] for the
destruction [that] wasteth at noonday.
7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right
hand; [but] it shall not come nigh thee.
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the
wicked.
9 Because thou hast made YHWH, [which is] my refuge, [even] the
most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh
thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all
thy ways.
12 They shall bear thee up in [their] hands, lest thou dash thy foot
against a stone.

We don't have to be afraid of the noisome pestilence (grievous
sores), the terror by night or the arrows by day. The wicked will fall
all around us, but no plague will come near us.

Isaiah 4:5 And YHWH will create upon every dwelling place of mount
Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the
shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory [shall be] a
defence.
6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from
the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm
and from rain.

We will be protected from the blistering sun that scorches men with
unbearable heat, as well as the storms of hail.

Isaiah 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he
that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from
holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and
shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence [shall be] the
munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters [shall be]
sure.

We will hide in the wilderness and be given food, and our waters will
be drinkable while the waters of Babylon turn to blood.

We have been promised protection from all of the final plagues.
There is just one catch. We have to come out from among Babylon
and be not partakers of her sins, so that we are not partakers of her
plagues.To Be raptured away is a nice thought.I believe We will see the
works of mighty YHWH up close. The hand of YHWH will be apon us like
David in the lions din, Like Shadrach Meshach Abed-nego

Maybe I need to read your view ?

[AnthonyForChrist]

David in the lions den, like Shadrach Meshach Abed-nego

Maybe I need to read your view ?
I hear from the many that see the believers suffering the tribulation bring up Chradrach, Meshach and Abednego in Daniel and their protection from the "angel" (although my friend thinks Mashiach was somehow involved) in the fires Nebuchadnezzar had thrown them into.

I personally don't feel in my spirit the validity of a pre-tribulation rapture. I have felt strongly the eventual need to flee from Babylon into the woods and live there, and perhaps this is what we are told to do. However, I wonder how we are to teach Mashiach if we iare solated in the wilderness.

[Sabian]

((( I have felt strongly the eventual need to flee from Babylon into the woods and live there, and perhaps this is what we are told to do. However, I wonder how we are to teach Mashiach if we iare solated in the wilderness.)))

To move to the mountians is a good thing. It did bring me out of the world so I could slow down and think.

But you can walk, run ,or fly from Babylon
But if you do not leave the ways of Babylon
You will never get passed the gates of Babylon. Following YAHSHUA is the only way to walk out of Babylon. HE is your example. If YAHSHUA kept the Feast days I think I shoud study and apply the Feast day to my life. Not some man made tradition.

Holy means to be Set Apart. The Holy Spirit means Set Apart Spirit. You must Set yourself Apart from the world.

The Set Apart spirit live in you how?
When you Set Yourself Apart from the World through Messiah. A light shines.

I hope I said that correctly because I do not want to Imply that I can do any thing I can do anything without YAHSHUA and FATHER YHWH.
Which is another point Can you really find your way out of Babylon with out Following YAHSHUA?
People see the change in you.
To me this is how the Set Apart Spirit of YHWH moves across the Face of the Earth.

Shalom Sabian