Outrageous Support Ruling

[Rep Daddy]

A post was reported (http://foru.ms/t6135112-wiki-rules-discussion-brimshack-09-21-2007.html) that accused Christians of spreading Satanism.

Heh, well it does mean that ...except when it means the other.

Just to be clear about this, my point is, and I do mean this quite literally, that No-one spreads the messages of Satanism more effectively than Christians. No-one does more to shape, define, and communicate the meaning of Satanic symbols than Christians. No-one does more to spread Satanism than Christians. No-one does more to keep the image of Satan alive and tell others how to find him, serve him, and honor him than Christians. And they do it in precisely discussions like this.

I cited (http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=39019789&postcount=8)the rule and reason it is a violation.

1.8 Flaming of members or groups of members is not allowed. Flaming is defined as the posting of inflammatory or unsubstantiated accusations or the use of rude, hurtful, insulting, or belittling language.

does it address a group? Yes Christians
does it provide substantiation? No
Is it inflamatory and insulting? I'd say so, it demeans Christianity and all Christians.

If this is not a rule violation, remove the rule... it is meaningless.

drstevej

4 support mods voted nv. None of them responded to my post explaining the errors in my rationale. I expressly asked some to do so.

===

Now suppose the post had used the word Catholic, Protestant or Mormon instead of "Christian". Would the results be the same?

This, IMO, is additional evidence of the acceptability of flaming Christians on foru.ms -- increasingly the "u" in foru.ms is not conservative Christians.

===

How do we address this?

disgustedly,
drstevej

[Rep Daddy]

I will PM a link to this thread to the 4 who voted nv so I am not talking behind their backs.

My PM

This thread (http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=39015428&postcount=1)addresses a ruling you made. I do not want to do this behind your backs and do not know how else to protest this ruling.

None of you addressed post 8 in the thread to explain why I am wrong. I specifically showed how this post violates the wording of rule 1.8 -- none showed where I was wrong.

This kind of ruling produces confusion and suspicion. Had you explained how I am misreading the rule (as I asked some of you) I can accept that, but that was not done.

Please clarify the ruling rationale in my post.

Steve

[Lisa0315]

I will PM a link to this thread to the 4 who voted nv so I am not talking behind their backs.

Please do, and per our private convo, this may be the kind of thing I can help resolve.

Lisa

[Rep Daddy]

Please do, and per our private convo, this may be the kind of thing I can help resolve.

Lisa

Done. You are welcome to help as you deem best. Thanks.

[edb19]

subscribing for updates

[Time2BCounted]

Brother what thread was that in, if you dont mind me asking?

[GreenMunchkin]

I remember that one.

It was a really, really hurtful thing to read. I wasn't sure if it was a violation but it was definitely really mean. Brimshack has always seemed very nice, but there were a few posts of his that were full of vitriol and anger, and I think maybe he was feeling very hurt about it all, for some reason.

Am a little surprised it was judged nv, though.

[Hentenza]

And people wonder why we continue to suggest and discuss rules for CC. If anyone would have said that here, it would have been a big time flame. It's a pitiful ruling though. I would welcome some debate with the mods that ruled NV in our debate subforum.

[Lisa0315]

Wow!!! :eek:

Steve, you should send this to MNPhysicist. I will do it if you prefer.

Lisa

[Rep Daddy]

Wow!!! :eek:

Steve, you should send this to MNPhysicist. I will do it if you prefer.

Lisa

I sent him a link to the thread but I am sure he is busy. You may do so if you will.
Steve

[Rep Daddy]

Brother what thread was that in, if you dont mind me asking?

post

http://foru.ms/showthread.php?postid...1#post39010871 (http://foru.ms/showthread.php?postid=39010871#post39010871)



This is part of this thread:
What do you think when you see a pentagram?
http://foru.ms/t6094251 (http://foru.ms/t6094251)

[GreenMunchkin]

Ok, but can we sort this out prayerfully, please? Please?

Cos, honestly, this is potentially really ugly :(

:hug::hug::hug: for everyone.

[Rep Daddy]

I agree. We need to be calm and objective while insistent on some reasoned response.

Prayer is essential as well.

[GreenMunchkin]

I agree. We need to be calm and objective while insistent on some reasoned response.

Prayer is essential as well.Maybe we could invite Brimshack to come and discuss it, too. Let's get it all out in the open and talk it through rationally and peacefully and with hugs. CC is probably the place to do it cos it's very loving in here.

[Lisa0315]

Ok, but can we sort this out prayerfully, please? Please?

Cos, honestly, this is potentially really ugly :(

:hug::hug::hug: for everyone.

Spoken like a true mod who loves her members! :thumbsup:

Lisa

[Rep Daddy]

I would like to hear the mods share their response to my post. No argument just their reasoned response.

I do not want a food fight here.

Steve

[Lisa0315]

I would like to hear the mods share their response to my post. No argument just their reasoned response.

I do not want a food fight here.

Steve

That is reasonable.

Lisa

[KarenJoy]

I am extremly saddened by this trend. I am deeply distressed by things I've read in recent weeks. I woke the other morning thinking of this verse 'Woe to those who call evil good and good evil.' (Isaiah 5:20) and this sums up very well this situation.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

I am extremly saddened by this trend. I am deeply distressed by things I've read in recent weeks. I woke the other morning thinking of this verse 'Woe to those who call evil good and good evil.' (Isaiah 5:20) and this sums up very well this situation.
Sure does...:sigh:

[Rep Daddy]

Two of the four have read my PM currently, will update as the other two do. I hope they will come here and give some insight on their ruling viz-a-viz the rule's wording and the post.

[Rep Daddy]

One might ask, why not appeal this ruling?

According to the Appeals Rules (http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=38424070&postcount=1), this is not an appealable issue

The http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/feedback.gif Feedback button may be used to initiate an appeal on all staff decision that do one or more of the following :
- modify or remove part or whole of a member’s posts or profile
- restrict one or more particular members’ ability to post or send PMs.So how are seemingly improper rulings redressed? Where is the accountability?


I PMed but have gotten no concrete answers.
I have no grounds to appeal.
I could initiate a recall petition, but that is way too drasticSo this thread seemed my best option.

If it is ignored, what is the next option?
Suggestions?

I admit I have not taken the time to find and read every protocol discussion on the site.

[Lisa0315]

One might ask, why not appeal this ruling?

According to the Appeals Rules (http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=38424070&postcount=1), this is not an appealable issue

So how are seemingly improper rulings redressed? Where is the accountability?

I PMed but have gotten no concrete answers.
I have no grounds to appeal.
I could initiate a recall petition, but that is way too drasticSo this thread seemed my best option.

If it is ignored, what is the next option?
Suggestions?

I admit I have not taken the time to find and read every protocol discussion on the site.

I believe they are working on adding a report function in the Reports themselves. You could report the report. I am not sure when this will be available, but you can start your own report thread in Support and request that Smods and Admins make a ruling on each of the mod calls.

Lisa

[GreenMunchkin]

One might ask, why not appeal this ruling?

According to the Appeals Rules (http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=38424070&postcount=1), this is not an appealable issue

So how are seemingly improper rulings redressed? Where is the accountability?

I PMed but have gotten no concrete answers.
I have no grounds to appeal.
I could initiate a recall petition, but that is way too drasticSo this thread seemed my best option.

If it is ignored, what is the next option?
Suggestions?

I admit I have not taken the time to find and read every protocol discussion on the site.Amber said she's gonna report the whole thing, so maybe she knows how it's done. Has Matt read it? He wouldn't ignore it if he knew people were upset.

[Rep Daddy]

I believe they are working on adding a report function in the Reports themselves. You could report the report. I am not sure when this will be available,

Lisa

A report is for rules violations. I don't think a wrong decision is a rules violation. So the button will be good for flames in reports, etc but not this.

but you can start your own report thread in Support and request that Smods and Admins make a ruling on each of the mod calls.

Lisa

Not sure how this is done and the Support admin (http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=39041762&postcount=39)is one who voted nv.

There is some truth to the statement made. Unfortunately, some christian have set very bad examples at times and cause people to see a skewed vision of what christianity is, which leads the seeker down the opposite path. I honestly dont feel it is meant to be a flame.

My Vote is nv.

This post is non responsive to my case for a rules violation (see OP here) and it shows that the Admin agrees with the post's content and has a feeling about the intent.

Meanwhile I think many are insulted by the post and frustrated by the ruling and would like a clear explanation of the nv viz a viz rule 1.8

[Lisa0315]

Well, as bad as this is, apparantly, we have worse problems...

http://foru.ms/t6142238-refuge.html#post39050746

[Rep Daddy]

STATUS:

Three mods (of four) have read the PM none have replied.

[Rep Daddy]

STATUS:

All four have now read the PM. No responses yet.

[soblessed53]

Well, as bad as this is, apparantly, we have worse problems...

http://foru.ms/t6142238-refuge.html#post39050746


Wow EVERYONE needs to read about this secret satanic forum here! REPS! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[HowardDean]

So-its not satanic. Some are up in arms and not understanding.
I don;'t understand this outrage here.

[Time2BCounted]

So-its not satanic. Some are up in arms and not understanding.
I don;'t understand this outrage here.
HD
Hi there sis. Mine is something other than outrage.

I see comments made by those who will be heading that forum, saying that sonnets to satan are beautiful, and i cant bring myself to acknowledge they are 'former' occultists, and i think to allow them to 'council' a forum meant to help those escaping occultism, is a huge danger

[bill16652]

I agree, if you have done a 180 turn how can anything to satan be beautiful?

[Lel]

A few thoughts:

1. Run for support mod.
2. Get the rules re-wiki'd so that is a violation.

I don't see it, though I have to read the report in more detail.

[bill16652]

It is a thought providing Erwin is on board but many resigned because they could not support what is going on, if it can be changed then I say yes but if it is already decided and cant be then why lend support to something you cant support?

[Jim47]

Unless I am satisfied that this is legitimate I will probably leave, and the only way I will be satisfied is to be allowed access :sick:

[Debi1967]

Unless I am satisfied that this is legitimate I will probably leave, and the only way I will be satisfied is to be allowed access :sick:
It is legitimate but not in the way that most think and much disinformation has been posted I would wait to see what Ron has to say before you do anything

[Debi1967]

This problem and many others will be addressed later please cool your heels until. such time that Administration can figure out what to do

Lovingly In Christ
Debi1967

[GreenMunchkin]

Dude, why the mod hat? :scratch:

[bill16652]

Unless I am satisfied that this is legitimate I will probably leave, and the only way I will be satisfied is to be allowed access :sick: I agree

[GreenMunchkin]

Unless I am satisfied that this is legitimate I will probably leave, and the only way I will be satisfied is to be allowed access :sick: Jim, do you mean the Support report or the "secret" forum? Or a mixture of both? :hug:

[Time2BCounted]

Jim, do you mean the Support report or the "secret" forum? Or a mixture of both? :hug:
Jim

From
http://foru.ms/t6144280&page=46

there is the following quote...

Many members of the Recovery staff will be ministering, as well. I fully expect that Father Rick will spend significant time in there.


Are you a part of the recovery staff? what does "many" mean in this case?

[bill16652]

Erwin is in that thread now if you are interested, hasnt posted anything yet.

[Jim47]

Jim, do you mean the Support report or the "secret" forum? Or a mixture of both? :hug:


The secret forum. It makes no sence at all that we would have a forum for recovering satanists and exclude the very people (we Christians) needed to witness to them. I just don't but this at all.

[Hentenza]

What I don't understand is why is this secret forum any more "sensitive" than all other recovery forums. There are people in the recovery forums that have suffered unspeakable evil and their forum is public. I don't see what makes this new forum any different.

Heck, how do people that need help find the forum? :doh:

I can't see it.:confused:

[rmw8855]

As my roommate says - why do they call it "common sense" when it is so rare.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

As my roommate says - why do they call it "common sense" when it is so rare.
Good one! :thumbsup:

[Hentenza]

Those of you that know me know that I don't rattle easily but this secret forum is a big problem for me. I just don't have enough confidence in the management of this site to police this forum and keep it from becoming a devil's playground. Frankly, I just don't see a need to have a secret forum. No other group has one, even those that have suffered considerably more. I don't know maybe is just my own perception but I would consider someone that has been physically raped, or abused, or lost a child, or similar, to have suffered more than what this little group claims. I have never been possessed, as they claim, so I don't know. I am sure that it most be a horrible thing but not any worse than others.
I have a problem with the "perception" of impropriety and secrecy surrounding this new forum. How can there be accountability when no one can even "see" the forum? How do we know that it is not in fact the devils playground?
I am going to pray for God to show me what I should do. Don't worry, I am not leaving the forum. I have made a promise to stay and fight to the end. So, I am going to fight. How? I don't know yet but God will tell me.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Those of you that know me know that I don't rattle easily but this secret forum is a big problem for me. I just don't have enough confidence in the management of this site to police this forum and keep it from becoming a devil's playground. Frankly, I just don't see a need to have a secret forum. No other group has one, even those that have suffered considerably more. I don't know maybe is just my own perception but I would consider someone that has been physically raped, or abused, or lost a child, or similar, to have suffered more than what this little group claims. I have never been possessed, as they claim, so I don't know. I am sure that it most be a horrible thing but not any worse than others.
I have a problem with the "perception" of impropriety and secrecy surrounding this new forum. How can there be accountability when no one can even "see" the forum? How do we know that it is not in fact the devils playground?
I am going to pray for God to show me what I should do. Don't worry, I am not leaving the forum. I have made a promise to stay and fight to the end. So, I am going to fight. How? I don't know yet but God will tell me.
:hug:

[3girls2dogs]

As my roommate says - why do they call it "common sense" when it is so rare.
Obituary of Common Sense !
Today, we mourn the passing of an old friend by the name of Common Sense.
Common Sense lived a long life, but died from heart failure at the brink of the Millennium.
No one really knows how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools; hospitals, homes, factories and offices, helping folks get jobs done without fanfare and foolishness.
For decades, petty rules, silly laws and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense.
He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in from rain, the early bird gets the worm and life isn't always fair.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and it's okay to come in second.
A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution, Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends including feminism, body piercing, whole language and new math.
But his health declined when he became infected with the "if-it-only-helps-one-person-it's-worth-it" virus.
In recent decades, his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing federal legislation.
He watched in pain as good people became ruled by self-seeking lawyers and enlightened auditors.
His health rapidly deteriorated when schools endlessly implemented zero tolerance policies; when reports were heard of six year old boys charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; when a teen was suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch; when a teacher was fired for reprimanding an unruly student.
It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but couldn't inform the parent when a female student is pregnant or wants an abortion.
Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional sports.
As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments, regarding questionable regulations for asbestos, low-flow toilets, smart guns, the nurturing of Prohibition Laws and mandatory air bags.
Finally, when told that the homeowners association restricted exterior furniture only to that which enhanced property values, he breathed his last.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son Reason.
His three stepbrothers survive him: Rights, Tolerance and Whiner.
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

Author Unknown

[Time2BCounted]

Obituary of Common Sense !
Today, we mourn the passing of an old friend by the name of Common Sense.
Common Sense lived a long life, but died from heart failure at the brink of the Millennium.
No one really knows how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools; hospitals, homes, factories and offices, helping folks get jobs done without fanfare and foolishness.
For decades, petty rules, silly laws and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense.
He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in from rain, the early bird gets the worm and life isn't always fair.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and it's okay to come in second.
A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution, Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends including feminism, body piercing, whole language and new math.
But his health declined when he became infected with the "if-it-only-helps-one-person-it's-worth-it" virus.
In recent decades, his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing federal legislation.
He watched in pain as good people became ruled by self-seeking lawyers and enlightened auditors.
His health rapidly deteriorated when schools endlessly implemented zero tolerance policies; when reports were heard of six year old boys charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; when a teen was suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch; when a teacher was fired for reprimanding an unruly student.
It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but couldn't inform the parent when a female student is pregnant or wants an abortion.
Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional sports.
As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments, regarding questionable regulations for asbestos, low-flow toilets, smart guns, the nurturing of Prohibition Laws and mandatory air bags.
Finally, when told that the homeowners association restricted exterior furniture only to that which enhanced property values, he breathed his last.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son Reason.
His three stepbrothers survive him: Rights, Tolerance and Whiner.
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

Author Unknown

Commone Sense is dead

Long live Common Sense

[rmw8855]

Obituary of Common Sense !
Today, we mourn the passing of an old friend by the name of Common Sense.
Common Sense lived a long life, but died from heart failure at the brink of the Millennium.
No one really knows how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools; hospitals, homes, factories and offices, helping folks get jobs done without fanfare and foolishness.
For decades, petty rules, silly laws and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense.
He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in from rain, the early bird gets the worm and life isn't always fair.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and it's okay to come in second.
A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution, Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends including feminism, body piercing, whole language and new math.
But his health declined when he became infected with the "if-it-only-helps-one-person-it's-worth-it" virus.
In recent decades, his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing federal legislation.
He watched in pain as good people became ruled by self-seeking lawyers and enlightened auditors.
His health rapidly deteriorated when schools endlessly implemented zero tolerance policies; when reports were heard of six year old boys charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; when a teen was suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch; when a teacher was fired for reprimanding an unruly student.
It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but couldn't inform the parent when a female student is pregnant or wants an abortion.
Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional sports.
As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments, regarding questionable regulations for asbestos, low-flow toilets, smart guns, the nurturing of Prohibition Laws and mandatory air bags.
Finally, when told that the homeowners association restricted exterior furniture only to that which enhanced property values, he breathed his last.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son Reason.
His three stepbrothers survive him: Rights, Tolerance and Whiner.
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

Author Unknown


It seems like that sometimes doesn't it.

[Tangeloper]

Wow... I'm just coming across this now... There is a "Secret" forum here for those recoving from Satanism??? I agree with you Hentenza! I'm a survivor of Sexual Abuse, as well as Sexual Assault. These are VERY difficult issues for some people to address especially in a public forum. If we don't have THOSE recovery forums private then I don't see why there is a special exception for these people!

The thing I would honestly fear the most for the people that belong to that forum who are truly hurting would be that people would join that forum for the express purpose of HURTING people who are in a fragile state already! I can only imagine a practicing Satanist or someone with true malice in their heart PRETENDING to be a "survivor" only to gain access to this forum and making the posters lives a literal Living Hell -- AGAIN!!!

This is VERY concerning...

OK, I'm going to read over the rest of this thread and see if there's other things I missed.

As for the OP -- I cannot BELIEVE that that post was ruled as NV!!! I think some of the mods really have no clue what they are doing in some cases. I have seen banter between some mods on some reports that clearly show that they really don't understand the rules and how to apply them. This is not directed towards anyone here, because I have not seen those who moderate this forum exhibiting this behavior...

[Tangeloper]

post

http://foru.ms/showthread.php?postid...1#post39010871 (http://foru.ms/showthread.php?postid=39010871#post39010871)



This is part of this thread:
What do you think when you see a pentagram?
http://foru.ms/t6094251 (http://foru.ms/t6094251)
I just went and read that post as well as the one under it! It figures that it's an Atheist saying these things. No wonder he has such vitriol in this post against Christians. I guess I should pray for him because he is truly lost. That is what is SO dangerous about being an atheist! To deny the existence of God and then associate his followers with those who would promote the honoring of Satan puts him in alliance with Satan, and he is not even aware (or chooses to ignore) that fact! Truly sad indeed -- and very scary that he is allowed to say these things. Did you see the Christian that posted after him agreeing??? She said that if it weren't for Christians putting a satanism website in a report she wouldn't have gone to the website and read it! :doh: She claims to be a seeker, but then agrees with a post slamming other Christians and blames a report meant to warn people as leading her to the sites! She KNEW what those sites were about and made a conscious decision to click the links, and then blames others for her own actions!!! :doh:

OK, Sorry I'm venting and probably not making much sense right now. It was very hard to even reply to that person in thread because as an atheist what are you supposed to say that he would not just dismiss!?!? Ya know??? I can now see why people are so upset about atheists being on this site to begin with... I mean WHY are they here if they are not seeking God? The only reason would be to try and lead others AWAY from him!

OK, yep, I'm upset now... I'll post more later when I relax a little...

[Brimshack]

"To deny the existence of God and then associate his followers with those who would promote the honoring of Satan puts him in alliance with Satan, and he is not even aware (or chooses to ignore) that fact! Truly sad indeed -- and very scary that he is allowed to say these things."

First, you tell me I'm being insulting. Then you casually drop the same accusation (even stronger though since this one DOES allege intent) against me. This is absolutely amazing.

[Brimshack]

Dr. SteveJ, I answered you claims, you never answered my own arguments on the subject. The fact of the matter remains that you mischaracterized my post throughout your criticisms.

[Brimshack]

Well, I guess I'm late to the party anyway. It seems the complaint about my post was set to the side so that folks could go on a real witch hunt. Yes, there are legitimate concerns about that secret forum; there was also a lot of outright opportunism and several personal attacks launched against someone seeking help from this forum. And y'all wonder why I posed what I did.

I will mention this as well, those of us who are non-Christians are constantly accused of the exact same thing I said about Christians (as I was just a couple posts back). If it is insulting to Christians, then it is insulting to us as well. If it is flaming Christians it is flaming us as well. And if it breaks a rule against flaming when I say it of Christians, then it breaks a rule against flaming when it is said of me as well.

It wasn't that long ago that a whole host of similar claims were made of CF as a result of 7/7/7. If folks want to talk about which if any of these claims are actually true, that's a reasonable disagreement, but all this shock at a claim commonly bandied about by Christians, just because it gets pointed back at you, that is a double standard if there ever was one.

[Brimshack]

Ah, just realized where this was. Once again Dr. Steve presses the point where he knows the other party cannot respond, and once again we are back to conservatives leveling accusations against others in a forum where those they are talking about cannot respond.

As long as you are all complaining about other people's shocking behavior, you really ought to look at your own, because this is about as underhanded as it gets.

[BlackSabb]

A post was reported (http://foru.ms/t6135112-wiki-rules-discussion-brimshack-09-21-2007.html) that accused Christians of spreading Satanism.



I cited (http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=39019789&postcount=8)the rule and reason it is a violation.



4 support mods voted nv. None of them responded to my post explaining the errors in my rationale. I expressly asked some to do so.

===

Now suppose the post had used the word Catholic, Protestant or Mormon instead of "Christian". Would the results be the same?

This, IMO, is additional evidence of the acceptability of flaming Christians on foru.ms -- increasingly the "u" in foru.ms is not conservative Christians.

===

How do we address this?

disgustedly,
drstevej


Could someone please explain the context of this quote, as pertaining to the original thread? Yes, it is very easy to isolate one quote of this poster, and pronounce him a heretic, evil, flamer, insulter etc.

Now, I'm not necessarily supporting this poster, but maybe, just maybe, he was trying to express a point of view that is completely lost because a few sentences have been quoted in isolation.

Perhaps the poster was trying to say how Christians seem to always be talking about the Devil. I have family members like this. Every time something goes wrong, everything in the world that goes wrong, every natural disaster etc is caused by the Devil. The Devil is everywhere. If you hit your thumb with a hammer, it's the Devil. All bad weather is the Devil. When your car doesn't start, well, you get the idea.

In that respect, (if that is what the original poster is trying to convey-I'm only guessing, as I say, his few sentences are quoted out of context in the original thread) I can understand that. I cannot stand when Christians just go on about the Devil this, and the Devil that. It sickens me.

Here is another quote from someone else on this same thread:
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"Totally concur with you 100%. I never knew about the occult until I was introduced to it through Christianity. I never knew about Satan worship either till Christianity taught me about it, what it is, how it is done (presumably), what His plans are (presumably), what symbols are used, etc. etc. Christianity is the BEST salacious, sensationalist, tempting, lusty, forbidden-fruit taboo laden SEDUCTION into the occult this world has ever produced, bar none.

What was that ditty LaVey wrote about Satan being "the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years"?? I would say it's more like the other way around!!!! The church has been SATAN'S best friend and kept HIM in business for hundreds of years. Definitely."
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Now again, please don't misuderstand me. I'm not supporting these guys, just trying to offer a perspective on understanding them. I chose this other quote because it shows a theme I'm trying to portray. That Christianity seems at times more preoccupied with the works of Satan than God, as per what I said before. Obviously, to me anyway, these guys seem to think that the Church is so preoccupied with Satan that it would be lost without the dark side, that somehow all the evil of Satan is important to making the Church necessary or relevant. I'm not saying this is right, just possibly how some people see this regarding Christianity.

I know this is going to sound absolutely horrible. But there have been some of my family members that are fundamentalist Christians that I have often myself (in my mind and heart) sneered as being "Satan lovers". How so, you may think? For the same reason, always carrying on about the Devil. Sometimes I have been around them at social/family gatherings, and as usual, they have been ranting about the Devil, in everything, in government, schools, music etc. And honestly, in my mind, I have said to myself that they "love their Devil". I know it sounds horrible to some of you, but if you were never around people like this, then I wouldn't expect you to understand.

[Lisa0315]

Ah, just realized where this was. Once again Dr. Steve presses the point where he knows the other party cannot respond, and once again we are back to conservatives leveling accusations against others in a forum where those they are talking about cannot respond.

As long as you are all complaining about other people's shocking behavior, you really ought to look at your own, because this is about as underhanded as it gets.

Brim, CCC has a right to vent in their own forum. It is not underhanded. Steve was just telling his family what had happened.

It would be no different than if something had happened to you and your reported it back in GA.

I for one, would support the athiests having their own protected area. However, most have said they do not want that. So, it is kind of like you are walking into our home as a guest and telling us that you do not like the family.

Lisa

[Tangeloper]

"To deny the existence of God and then associate his followers with those who would promote the honoring of Satan puts him in alliance with Satan, and he is not even aware (or chooses to ignore) that fact! Truly sad indeed -- and very scary that he is allowed to say these things."

First, you tell me I'm being insulting. Then you casually drop the same accusation (even stronger though since this one DOES allege intent) against me. This is absolutely amazing.
It doesn't imply ANY intent on your part! And it is HARDLY the same thing that you accuse Christians of doing! :doh: You completely fail to understand what I am saying in my post. Which doesn't surprise me at all. If you were a Christian and BELIVED in Satan you WOULD understand what I am saying here. AND, I also addressed you in the original thread so this in no way is limiting your ability to respond...

[Tangeloper]

Just FYI for BlackSab & Brimshack (Brimshack whom I am assuming knows this due to his snide remarks)
-- Only members of the CC Forum are allowed to debate topics in here. BlackSab, I don't know if you're a conservative or not, but feel free to read over our Forum Specific Rules, and if you agree with what it says then please sign-in.

Brimshack, I guess as an atheist that kind of leaves you out... But, then you knew that, didn't you? I find it interesting that you responded to my post without knowing where you were writing, or are you just saying that? Well, no matter either way you could've already edited it out...

[Lisa0315]

Tange, Rather than have a report war start in here, your post is attacking the poster and not the post as well. Will you edit, please?

Lisa

[Lisa0315]

Closed for cool down and staff clean up

[Lisa0315]

Thread moved to Debate Section. Posts will remain.

Please remember to attack the post and not the poster.

Lisa

[GreenMunchkin]

Is Brim still around? He may not know he's free to discuss it now.

[3girls2dogs]

According to Jim, he's left the forums in general.

[GreenMunchkin]

Oh I really hope not. This was the first time I ever saw him say anything hurtful. He's a really nice person. Would be a shame if he's left :(